Three Things That Killed Hip Hop...

[reggie jax]

Three Things That Killed Hip Hop...By Phonte of Little Brother

here's a blog that Phonte of Little Brother put on their myspace

'The three albums that 'killed' hip-hop.....

Notice 'killed' is in quotation marks, 'cause the shit is still obviously alive...but yeah.....here's my theory.....and this is not a dis against any of these records, as I am a fan of all three, but just a theory on the way these albums changed hip-hop forever...

The Three Albums That "Killed" Hip-Hop
by Dr. Tigallonious Wolfgang Flowers III, M.D. B.A., MS, PhD, BS, LLC

1.Nas- "It Was Written"
Columbia Records, 1996
Rating: @@@@

When compared to the lackluster albums that came later in his career ("I Am," "Nastradamus"), "It Was Written" shines like a diamond. At the time of its release, however, "IWW" was viewed as a slightly disappointing follow-up to a classic LP that showed so much promise. Jigga was right. The people had spoken and voiced their collective opinions: "Ehhhh......"

To me, this is the album that is mostly responsible for the ridiculous "underground" v. "commericial" split in hip-hop. In the summer of '96 you had two artists, De La Soul and Nas, who up until that point had a credible following in the "underground." Whereas De La continued in their left-field tradition with "Stakes Is High," Nas pulled a 180 and dropped "IWW." The result? "IWW" sold 2 million copies, and other "underground" MC's followed suit, often with disastrous results.

It's not that "IWW" was a bad album, it was just an ugly foreshadowing of things to come. Although if you're gonna blame "IWW," its only fair to take a step back and place an even B.I.G.ger blame on the album that inspired it. Yep.....you guessed it......I'm talking about....

2. The Notorious B.I.G.- "Ready To Die"
Bad Boy/Arista Records, 1995
Rating: @@@@@

Although death is unquestionably the greatest promotional tool any artist could have, you'd be a fool to deny Biggie's place among the greats for fear of posthumously overrating him.

Dude had it all: charisma, intelligence, a knack for storytelling, and a melodious flow that is still imitated and mimicked to this day. (If there is any question as to whether or not Biggie has influenced any of today's MC's, just listen to ANY song from "Get Rich or Die Trying" and imagine Biggie doing the hook instead. Scary ain't it?)

In addition to his talents as an MC, Biggie also had Puffy behind the boards (or shit, BESIDE the boards to let a Hitman tell it....). While Puff may not have been the traditional hands-on hip hop producer, homeboy understood one simple thing: how to make HIT ****ING RECORDS.

The thing that was so amazing about "RTD" was Biggie's ability to do a radio joint like "Juicy" or "One More Chance" without sounding forced or gimmicky. He could go from "Warning" to "Big Poppa" and not miss a step. His personality and charisma held it all together. Even Nas, for all his 80's loops and blatantly commercial aspirations on "IWW," simply could not compete with Biggie's natural charm as an MC. This was the simple fact that many MC's who unsuccessfully tried to duplicate "RTD's" formula (see: Mic Geronimo) failed to realize.

So Nas is making love songs, and Biggie is looping up disco. Where did the average head looking for some "true" hip-hop seek refuge? Even deeper "underground," of course.........

3. Company Flow- "Funcrusher Plus"
Official Recordings, 1997
Rating: @@@ anna half

The backpack generation is born.

I must admit that when I first heard "FP" I was alternately repulsed and amazed. The three-man team of El-P, Big Juss, and DJ Mr. Len made an album that was dirty, distorted, and "indy as ****."

The thing I admired most about "FP," and many other El-P associated projects, was that it had BALLS:

"What'chu mean a sitar loop ain't hip-hop? **** THAT!!!!"
("Fire In Which You Burn")

"What'chu mean these horns in the hook are offbeat and mixed too loud?" **** THAT!!!!!!"
("Krazy Kings")

This was not sweet, soulful music that you could play at your family reunion. This was music to piss your girlfriend off. Music to self-destruct to. And it worked.

With the release of "FP," Company Flow earned a cult following AND critical acclaim with 3.5 mics in the Source. Suddenly, a new breed of MC was born. Nerdy white boys had a place in hip hop. I can just imagine what must've been said at those A&R meetings:

"So you can't dance? Cool."

"You don't want to actually rhyme ON BEAT? No problem."

"You want to produce yourself even though you just bought an MPC, like, 2 weeks ago? Fabulous! You're UNDERGROUND, baby!!!!!"

Eventually, crews like Anticon, Rhymesayers, and even El-P's own Def Jux (RJD2 nonwithstanding....), came to symbolize "underground" hip-hop, or as most heads referred to it: "that backpacker shit." As a result, cats like Mos Def, The Roots, and Talib Kweli were running to work with "commericial" acts like Jay-Z, Jadakiss, and Kanye West in an attempt to distance themselves from a movement in which they were unfairly lumped in.

The end result?

Hip-hop became even more polarized and the music, sadly enough on both sides of the spectrum, grew even wacker.Thoughts? I'll drop my opinion on it in a bit.. I wanna see what some of you think first.

[YouEnjoyMyself]

I've never heard those albums, but I just thing the decline in hip hop is similar to the decline in music overall. It just seems for the most part, artists and record companies are most interested in making money, and they've become really good at exploiting the market.

[reggie jax]

I can understand Funcrusher Plus.. and to a certain extent It Was Written.. but how the hell have you not heard Ready to Die?! I've seen you say you like Wu Tang so you have good taste in hip hop.. trust me on this.. pick up Ready To Die. Don't get me wrong... it's no 36 Chambers or Illmatic.. it's more commercial but it's still great. It's more like west coast rap than east coast in it's approach to be honest.. it's simple and fun yet gritty at the same time.

[YouEnjoyMyself]

I can understand Funcrusher Plus.. and to a certain extent It Was Written.. but how the hell have you not heard Ready to Die?! I've seen you say you like Wu Tang so you have good taste in hip hop.. trust me on this.. pick up Ready To Die. Don't get me wrong... it's no 36 Chambers or Illmatic.. it's more commercial but it's still great. It's more like west coast rap than east coast in it's approach to be honest.. it's simple and fun yet gritty at the same time.

I'm sorry, I *did* own Ready To Die, but I didn't rip it onto my computer and I have since lost it. I do remember it being a good album, but I don't remember enough to comment on it in regards to this thread.

[AsHopeDies]

1 thing killed hip hop....


MTV

[reggie jax]

I'm sorry, I *did* own Ready To Die, but I didn't rip it onto my computer and I have since lost it. I do remember it being a good album, but I don't remember enough to comment on it in regards to this thread.Oh.. then I take back my rant. You should check out Company Flow if you like nerd rap though.

Anyone have any actual thoughts on the article? Even a simple "agree" or "disagree?" Reasons why would be a plus as well.

[KEALYBOY]

I think it's stupid to blame these albums for 'killing' hip hop, is it an artist's fault if his work inspires limp imitations? It's like blaming Miles Davis for Kenny G because he popularised jazz.

People tend to do this with Dr. Dre's 'The Chronic' and it really annoys me, The Chronic was a brilliantly constructed, knowingly, deliberately absurd, gloriously hedonistic escape from monotony that established the blueprint for most rap albums that followed, it's not Dre's fault if folks couldn't match up to his original. 'Ready To Die' is heavily influenced by that album, but does a decent job of continuing its legacy.

And would you, out of interest, like to elaborate on 'Don't steal music'? Is there a single thread you've posted in that you've not been pwned in yet? From 'da whyt jazz' to 'trip hop' the pwnage has been unprecedented. But the panel wuvs ya...

[IsItLiquidOrICE]

It was a pretty interesting article. Phonte is really knowledgeable when it comes to hiphop and knows how to put together an album as well.

It's good too see that he didnt say "The reasons hiphop is dead is because of 50 zCent, Eminem, and Lil jon." Ive seen so many people put that and it drives me crazy.

[reggie jax]

I think it's stupid to blame these albums for 'killing' hip hop, is it an artist's fault if his work inspires limp imitations? It's like blaming Miles Davis for Kenny G because he popularised jazz.It's not blaming the artists... it's pinpointing the albums.

People tend to do this with Dr. Dre's 'The Chronic' and it really annoys me, The Chronic was a brilliantly constructed, knowingly, deliberately absurd, gloriously hedonistic escape from monotony that established the blueprint for most rap albums that followed, it's not Dre's fault if folks couldn't match up to his original. 'Ready To Die' is heavily influenced by that album, but does a decent job of continuing its legacy. The Chronic is just an all around fun album. People tend to take it too seriously.

And would you, out of interest, like to elaborate on 'Don't steal music'? Is there a single thread you've posted in that you've not been pwned in yet? From 'da whyt jazz' to 'trip hop' the pwnage has been unprecedented. But the panel wuvs ya...Don't steal music is what's written on the plastic wrapper of every ipod on the inside of the box. Just found it ironic is all.

As for "pwning" me, after your whopping two examples one of which was a joke that certain sensistive members took to heart and the other was a geniune fuck up that I never denied, I doubt I can ever show my face (or avatar) here on ebaums ever again. Damnit, you've ruined me. Do you get a thrill out of being mediocre?

[KEALYBOY]

It's not blaming the artists... it's pinpointing the albums.

The Chronic is just an all around fun album. People tend to take it too seriously.

Don't steal music is what's written on the plastic wrapper of every ipod on the inside of the box. Just found it ironic is all.

As for "pwning" me, after your whopping two examples one of which was a joke that certain sensistive members took to heart and the other was a geniune fuck up that I never denied, I doubt I can ever show my face (or avatar) here on ebaums ever again. Damnit, you've ruined me. Do you get a thrill out of being mediocre?

No, but I sure get a thrill out of provoking nasty responses though. Calm down bruvs, ever heard of irony?

Glad to know you don't dismiss The Chronic outright, I'd say it's beyond 'fun' though, dopeness defined...

[reggie jax]

Well I seem to recall you taking shots at me in other threads too. Seems to me you have a hard-on for me.. not just a one post dose of "irony" is it? My bad if you actually were just jesting though.. hard to tell through text.

The Chronic to me is the epitome of fun. I don't mean that as a bad thing. Funky beats.. good rhymes.. it's the prototype of what good mainstream should be. IMO it's better than Straight Outta Compton, which is generally viewed as the west's biggest contribution to hip hop.

[crash2cortex]

It Was Written was certainly more mainstream, but Illmatic broke away from Alternative Rap (Tribe and De La, etc.). Illmatic is probably known more for bringing the nitty-gritty NY rukkus to the forefront, taking away the lovey dovey Daisy's shit, but... you can't blame great artists like Nas and BIG for inspiring others to make horrible records. A modern hip-hop martyr may be the face on all your airbrushed shirts, but... if he made good records, maybe it's time to blame someone else. Music just changes with the times. You could probably blame the massive white appeal (and their misunderstanding) of what hip hop is, but, the music itself... well, that coukld be a different story.
EDIT: I also do find it ironic that you have a Mobb Deep icon!

[KEALYBOY]

Well I seem to recall you taking shots at me in other threads too. Seems to me you have a hard-on for me.. not just a one post dose of "irony" is it? My bad if you actually were just jesting though.. hard to tell through text.

The Chronic to me is the epitome of fun. I don't mean that as a bad thing. Funky beats.. good rhymes.. it's the prototype of what good mainstream should be. IMO it's better than Straight Outta Compton, which is generally viewed as the west's biggest contribution to hip hop.

'Taking shots'? Dat gangsta mentalitee...

It's all ironic jest, you seriously think I'm trying to engineer your fuckin' downfall from an online forum??? You do tend to provoke heated responses in the music section quite often that amount to "pwnag3", it is noticeable to someone that posts only in here, but like fuck I subscribe to feckin' '1337 HaX0r' culture. As for my supposed 'hard-on', please; it's called sarcastic forum perogative...

Mobb Deep are great. Supposed to be engineered, studied alter egos as the members are college bwoys which actually means I respect them more...

[wodahS]

Biggie I can see... Nas kinda... But funcrusher plus... I never even heard that. And I know a lot about rap. So I doubt about that one influcing rap to become the shit that it is today.


And about straight outta compton being considered as west's biggest contribution to hiphop, that's true, because anything from west's rap came out of NWA. Without NWA no ice cube no dre... no a lot of things right now. Doubtful that it can be considered the best album of the west though. I do agree the original The Chronics is a masterpeice to me. Very original album; a least to me. And I listen to all of it. From little ghetto boy to high powered; not just dre's day or nothing but a g thang like everyone.

[reggie jax]

'Taking shots'? Dat gangsta mentalitee...

It's all ironic jest, you seriously think I'm trying to engineer your fuckin' downfall from an online forum??? You do tend to provoke heated responses in the music section quite often that amount to "pwnag3", it is noticeable to someone that posts only in here, but like fuck I subscribe to feckin' '1337 HaX0r' culture. As for my supposed 'hard-on', please; it's called sarcastic forum perogative...Like I said.. hard to tell through text. I didn't think you were "trying to engirneer my downfall" as you said it, just that you had a problem with me cause I pissed you off along the line somehow. It's really not all that unlikely.. but like I said "my bad" if it was a misunderstanding. You brits and your sarcasm can sometimes be a little over the top to the point of confusing, you must understand.

EDIT: I also do find it ironic that you have a Mobb Deep icon!Why is it ironic? I didn't write the article.

But since it seems that the hip hop base on ebaums is minimal lately (whatever happen to spike, fidel, wodahs and all them?) I guess I'll post my thoughts on the article now.

At first I thought phonte was full of shit to be honest. The fact that a member of a hip hop group was talking about the genre being dead just rubbed me the wrong way.. reminds me of punk fans to be honest. But after some thought.. I think I see where he was going with this. Not that hip hop as a genre of music died with these albums, but hip hop as the voice of a generation.. hip hop the movement. The period in which these albums were released was really at the end of the mainstream's golden age.. from there on artistic value in the genre would become more and more obscure and it'd no longer really be the collective voice of the youth cause everyone has a different idea of what hip hop should be. The mainstream turned into a cesspool of simple rhymes and simple beats about fucking pointless parties and senseless crimes.. a rehashed version of the whole g-funk era and a half assed attempt to maintain "street reality."

When company flow sparked the underground movement in 97.. they turned everyone's opinion of the underground into some corny ass music for whiteboys, and like it or not the majority of hip hop fans either disowned the genre to talk about the good old days or simply conformed to the pop mainstream in order to reject what is viewed as the nerdy white underground. Basically this caused mainstream fans to reject the very idea of underground to the point where they would make mindless conformist club bangers just to "keep it real," even though back in the day that was "selling out." On the other side of the spectrum, underground heads reject the mainstream so harshly that any attempt of actually making a catchy song or sounding good is seen as selling out. Which has made underground almost synonymous with "akward" and made it impossible for underground artists to make a real difference outside their selective group of fans. Basically, the people who are getting the airplay have no sense of art and the ones who have a sense of art feel the need to reject the business aspect of music so they aren't getting heard by enough people to make a difference. Hence, "hip hop," as the voice of the youth, has been killed.

IMO, beacons of hope in hip hop include:

MF Doom
Common
Gorrilaz
Kanye West
etc.

I don't even like the bottom two, but they are helping the cause.

[DrFrasierCrane]

I'd say 'Dr. Octagonecologyst' by Dr. Octagon was more responsible for the mainstream/underground divide than Funcrusher Plus. It predates it by around a year and was the first hip hop album of the late 90s to really start playing around with the formula of hip hop. Without Dr. Octagonecologyst there would be no Funcrusher Plus or anything like it..

[reggie jax]

Dr Octagon was spacey and all that but so was early Redman to a certain extent.. so really if you wanna play "follow the influence" we could track it back even further than Dr Octagon. But no doubt Dr Octagon is an important album too..

[Joey Orion]

Gorillaz? You mean the 3 or 4 songs where there's a rapper out of the dozens of songs they have? ... lol Yay for being a tiny Beacon of Hope for Hip Hop...

[KEALYBOY]

Very original album; a least to me. And I listen to all of it. From little ghetto boy to high powered; not just dre's day or nothing but a g thang like everyone.

I'll listen to selected joints from it every now and then, but to skip tracks while listening to the album would be unthinkable. Lil' Ghetto Boy is one of the best songs on it in my opinion...

[Ray]

I've never heard those albums, but I just thing the decline in hip hop is similar to the decline in music overall. It just seems for the most part, artists and record companies are most interested in making money, and they've become really good at exploiting the market.
Agreed. My most listened to types of music are genres that arn't a marketing dream. Like you said, it's all about the money now. Record companies chuck out singles from groups that have absoloutely no talent, they just meet one of their marketing requirements (Good looking).

As for the decline in Hip Hop, it's commercialism. Most of the stuff out now is shit. I just stay to my own favourite artists. It's due to way many rappers or 'gangs' releasing albums that I've stopped searching for new Hip Hop. I just go on recomendations from other people.

[reggie jax]

Gorillaz? You mean the 3 or 4 songs where there's a rapper out of the dozens of songs they have? ... lol Yay for being a tiny Beacon of Hope for Hip Hop...Those 3 or 4 songs happen to be their singles that get the most play.. so yeah..

[firepiss]

Interesting post, jax.


But what the hell has happened to Rap!?

I got into rap back in the mid 90s. I got into rap because I love simple basic rymes and the beats caught my ears and things sure have changed since then and I can't stand modern hip hop. Why? Some of these new rap artists, you can't understand what they are saying. Not sounded racist, I think the culture has gone to far, you see one guy get signed by a rap label and then he has to bring all of his home boys in the videos and help him perform in concerts. Rap could be bigger than it is right now.

It's all about the money, bling bling, it's fucking cheesey and so are the music videos. Rappers are more about what clothes and gold chains they wear than the fucking music itself. Ever since Cash Money Millionaires came onto the scene in 2000. I started turning away from rap. Rap doesn't seem or feel real to me anymore.

This is just my thoughts, so don't get mad a me.

[KEALYBOY]

The next Fugees album is the 'hope' for hip hop...

[crash2cortex]

When I said it was ironic, I meant it was strange that you'd post such an article when Mobb Deep deliberately waters down their shit and signs to G-Unot (certainly bringing more "death" to hiphop). The Inamous is only good for jackin beats anyways :)

[Phar87]

Endtroducing killed hip-hop. Period.

[Sticky_Eecky]

that`s a shitty article...

[reggie jax]

When I said it was ironic, I meant it was strange that you'd post such an article when Mobb Deep deliberately waters down their shit and signs to G-Unot (certainly bringing more "death" to hiphop). The Inamous is only good for jackin beats anyways :)I don't have just a "mobb deep" avatar. It's that specific album, The Infamous. That and Hell on Earth are really the only things by Mobb Deep that I like. I'm not the kind of fan who abandons great albums based on what aritsts do later in their career. That's why I still site albums like Slim Shady LP and Amerikkka's Most Wanted even though the artists who made those albums sold out later in their career.

The Infamous isn't for everyone. You gotta be able to take the whole hardcore criminal thing with a grain of salt. If you're able to accept it as entertainment and not reality, it's really a great album.
Endtroducing killed hip-hop. Period.Elaborate.

[NazFer]

I think the top three things that killed hip hop are:
1. Being made in the first place
2. Sucking so much ass
3. Being around for so long.

But thats just me.;)

[KEALYBOY]

I think the top three things that killed hip hop are:
1. Being made in the first place
2. Sucking so much ass
3. Being around for so long.

But thats just me.;)

Your command of wit is astounding...

You gotta mother?

[NazFer]

You gotta mother?
HMMMM maybe....

[dickstain]

hip hop was killed when multi-national conglomerates directors started to listen to their kids records and signed up wigga's like eminem...3 things killed hip hop/rap call it what ya will...eminem/ tu-pac/ vanilla ice................next year get ready for the red neck country showdown because of johnny cash wannabees...............in reality greedy producers killed rap

[KEALYBOY]

Eminem's first two albums were exceptional, and the apostrophe for ''wigga's'' is totally surplus to requirements man...

[wodahS]

hip hop was killed when multi-national conglomerates directors started to listen to their kids records and signed up wigga's like eminem...3 things killed hip hop/rap call it what ya will...eminem/ tu-pac/ vanilla ice................next year get ready for the red neck country showdown because of johnny cash wannabees...............in reality greedy producers killed rap

Eminem, tupac and vanilla ice ruined rap?

:confuzed: Lol. And please, Eminem is nowhere near a "wigga". You -> :dunce:

[dickstain]

funny how i'm being picked up on grammer by people who listen to music that frequently by-passes simple things like yo as in yes...ho as in woman ...wassup as in hello...

[dickstain]

and eminem is no wigga...hmm lets see acts black wears NBA gear, i am quite rightly a dunce because i'm not that intelligent.....but get real eminem aint all that!!!...he is a human he likes money and has a niche in a market that he and his producers are quite happy to exploit...mainly middle class white kids...i dont blame him i'd do the same....but i seen the shit that he sings about, 10 times worse, it aint big or funny

[KEALYBOY]

I like my grammar errors to be animated and deliberate thank ye, and misused apostrophes are unforgivable in all circumstances.

[reggie jax]

Eminem is a wigga in the sense that people use it... he fits the description to a tee. Doesn't have shit to do with his music.

Even Eminem's worst work is better than a lot of artist's best work. His influence has done a lot of negative to the genre (mostly his label) but his actual music is far from killing hip hop.

[wodahS]

and eminem is no wigga...hmm lets see acts black
Lost all respect I could ever have for you.

[dickstain]

oh no some kid that dont know shit from real life has lost respect for me like i give a major flying fuck...booo hooo

[dickstain]

I like my grammar errors to be animated and deliberate thank ye, and misused apostrophes are unforgivable in all circumstances.
........................
unless you were seriously sexually abused as a child by a puppet from sesame street or barney i fail to see what your problem is misused apostrophes ............heres some more for ya fuckwad "@@@@""""""""",,,,,,,,
'''''''''''wigga wiggas' wigga's wiggies fuck you all

[reggie jax]

Somebody needs to get laid.

[KEALYBOY]

........................
unless you were seriously sexually abused as a child by a puppet from sesame street or barney i fail to see what your problem is misused apostrophes ............heres some more for ya fuckwad "@@@@""""""""",,,,,,,,
'''''''''''wigga wiggas' wigga's wiggies fuck you all

I was indeed abused by Oscar the Grouch....

I kill u :~)

Verie intaleckchual hyoomar.

[DrFrasierCrane]

........................
unless you were seriously sexually abused as a child by a puppet from sesame street or barney i fail to see what your problem is misused apostrophes ............heres some more for ya fuckwad "@@@@""""""""",,,,,,,,
'''''''''''wigga wiggas' wigga's wiggies fuck you all
Watch your back.

[Bunny-Fu]

I think P Diddy killed hiphop. I do like his stuff, but he spawned the legions of club-easy-moneymaker-hits like Chingy etc, overcommercializing the genre.

[ChEeSuS]

Hip Hop Killed Itself Cus Its Gay!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TROUBLE NUGGETS]

unless its vanilla ice its awful

[ChEeSuS]

i agree with u on that mr. nuggets

[reggie jax]

Thanks for contributing.

[biscuit]

Just rappers caring more about money than actually rapping.

Prepackaged MTV hits that kids base their foundation of "good" rap on.

Its a shame.

Somone get these kids some fucking wu-tang.

[KEALYBOY]

Somone get these kids some fucking wu-tang.

I hear they're touring soon...

[reggie jax]

The whole "Wu Tang meets Indie Culture" thing was a flop. Probably trying to rebound from that.

The GZA/Muggs album was good though.

[KEALYBOY]

DrFrasierCrane told me it was great...

Gotta bump this thread, no one ever discusses rap on here anymore.

[reggie jax]

Told you the Think Differently album was great or the GZA/Muggs album?? The Think Differently was decent but it was supposed to be bigger.. it was more like a random mixtape than an album. The GZA album is great by modern rap standars but just good by Wu Tang standards. I'm hoping Ghostface can drop another classic this year.. the fact that he's been working with Doom is always a good sign. Madvillain 2 is another thing to be hyped for. 06 is looking good.. candy rap is due to die any day now.

[KEALYBOY]

Told you the Think Differently album was great or the GZA/Muggs album?? The Think Differently was decent but it was supposed to be bigger.. it was more like a random mixtape than an album. The GZA album is great by modern rap standars but just good by Wu Tang standards. I'm hoping Ghostface can drop another classic this year.. the fact that he's been working with Doom is always a good sign. Madvillain 2 is another thing to be hyped for. 06 is looking good.. candy rap is due to die any day now.

The Think Differently album. Incidentally, Dre's Detox should be coming out this year, the leaked song 'My Life' is above the level of The Chronic. God knows it's been delayed long enough, I just hope the likes of 50 Cent stay out of the guest appearance booth...

[reggie jax]

I'm not so hyped about detox just cause of the hype backing it and the company he keeps lately.. hopefully he'll suprise me. 2001 wasn't half bad but it sure as hell wasn't The Chronic, and that was back when him and Em were making good music and not drooling over G-Unit. I don't think 50 will be a part of it.. seems him and Dre are growing further and further apart. But you can expect to see The Game, that's for sure.

[KEALYBOY]

I'm not so hyped about detox just cause of the hype backing it and the company he keeps lately.. hopefully he'll suprise me. 2001 wasn't half bad but it sure as hell wasn't The Chronic, and that was back when him and Em were making good music and not drooling over G-Unit. I don't think 50 will be a part of it.. seems him and Dre are growing further and further apart. But you can expect to see The Game, that's for sure.

Yeah, in a radio interview London tosser 'Westwood' asked 50 his thoughts on Dre producing Game's next album to which 50 said that if Dre produced it 'den i gess we got beaf'. The Game isn't so bad, his x bars diss songs are enjoyable enough. I would agree about 2001, The Chronic is far superior. Have you heard the song 'My Life', supposedly from Detox? Really, really well done, nice jazzy beat that changes a couple of times through the song and no shitty guest rappers or clingers on...

[Pajman]

Hip Hop got over-commercialized to death.

[reggie jax]

Yeah, in a radio interview London tosser 'Westwood' asked 50 his thoughts on Dre producing Game's next album to which 50 said that if Dre produced it 'den i gess we got beaf'. The Game isn't so bad, his x bars diss songs are enjoyable enough. I would agree about 2001, The Chronic is far superior. Have you heard the song 'My Life', supposedly from Detox? Really, really well done, nice jazzy beat that changes a couple of times through the song and no shitty guest rappers or clingers on...I d/led it... it definitely shows potential but I hope there's still some tweeking to be done as far as the actual release goes. They really need to change the hook/singers. Everything else sounds decent to great.. the beat is actually impressive.. I'm so used to all modern dre beats sounding the same. I wonder who wrote the lyrics.

Hip Hop got over-commercialized to death.No doubt, but that's due to change. Everything goes in cycles in music.. there's no such thing as stagnation, it just seems appears that way sometimes.

[DrFrasierCrane]

I d/led it... it definitely shows potential but I hope there's still some tweeking to be done as far as the actual release goes. They really need to change the hook/singers. Everything else sounds decent to great.. the beat is actually impressive.. I'm so used to all modern dre beats sounding the same. I wonder who wrote the lyrics.


The singers are OK.

Jus' smokin' weed for hours!

:wah:

[KEALYBOY]

I wonder who wrote the lyrics.

Is that a reference to Dre's supposed ghost writers? Where does that stem from? I've seen no evidence for it at all. Not like the lyrics are too deep anyway...

[reggie jax]

Dre has a history of not writing his own stuff from what I hear. Cube wrote his stuff on NWA, I think Snoop wrote it on The Chronic.. Em probably wrote it on 2001. I'm almost positive Em wrote Dre's verse on Guilty Conscience. It wasn't a diss.. Dre isn't a lyricist he's a producer/performer.

[KEALYBOY]

I know it's not a diss, I'm just curious about where that rumour sprung up from. I don't buy it but at least its clarified now...