Cheney Not Charged... What do you think?

[TORCH]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/02/16/cheney/index.html

Regardless of the fact this is an incident regarding the VP or Pres of the USA, does anyone out ther actually think that the regular hunter that would be involved in the same incident would be subject to charges?

I'm personally not suprised that NO charges were filed against the Vice President. If the guy he would have shot would have died from his wounds, I believe the same result.

Now I think that everyone with a brain would know that if someone they know would accidentally shoot a fellow hunter would result in criminal charges, this issue is obviously above the law!

This Bush Administration is CORRUPT, and now obviously can get away with virtually anything including charges that would send any normal person to JAIL for "accidentally" shooting a friend while hunting!

This Administration MUST BE STOPPED ONE WAY OR ANOTHER!

[zamphir66]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/02/16/cheney/index.html

Now I think that everyone with a brain would know that if someone they know would accidentally shoot a fellow hunter would result in criminal charges, this issue is obviously above the law!


I live in a pretty popular hunting area. Nearly everyone goes hunting, or knows someone who does. Accidents [sometimes fatal] happen nearly every year. I can't remember anyone ever being charged with a crime for a hunting accident. So, in short, you don't know what you're talking about.

[Mahalo]

I live in a pretty popular hunting area. Nearly everyone goes hunting, or knows someone who does. Accidents [sometimes fatal] happen nearly every year. I can't remember anyone ever being charged with a crime for a hunting accident. So, in short, you don't know what you're talking about.

Mmhm. That's goes for my region, as well. However, its obvious Cheney isn't going to get treated like just another shmoe... that's just wishful thinking. Yes, normally, if somebody shot another person in a hunting mishap, the police would bring them in for questioning at minimum. Of course that didn't happen.

[zamphir66]

Well he's not just another shmoe. He's bigger in a way than even a rich celebrity. But I don't think that means that he can literally get away with murder. Only that he will be treated a lot nicer than average joe.

[Don Quixote]

I live in a pretty popular hunting area. Nearly everyone goes hunting, or knows someone who does. Accidents [sometimes fatal] happen nearly every year. I can't remember anyone ever being charged with a crime for a hunting accident. So, in short, you don't know what you're talking about.

So even when someone dies, the perp isn't charged? That's messed up. Do they not understand the concept of manslaughter where you live?

As for Cheney, If he were anyone else it would be up to the person who got shot.(if they lived)

[zamphir66]

Manslaughter requires at least some degree of negligence or fault. An accident sometimes is really just an accident; or in some cases the victim might be the negligent party. As I said I don't remember anyone being charged with a crime, that's not to say it never happened.

[Sketcher]

Before Cheney can be charged with anything, the victim has to press charges. Hunting accidents happen every year and very few of them are arrested. Get the fuck off your high horse.

[Chewy]

Before Cheney can be charged with anything, the victim has to press charges. Hunting accidents happen every year and very few of them are arrested. Get the fuck off your high horse.
That would be some of the subtle of the differences between Canada and US here the victim is not needed to press charges in situations of violence, assault firearms or of sexual nature.

Secondly he could be charged with illegal discharge of a firearm, or reckless endangerment or something along those lines, in Canada firearm incidents are rather serious even hunting ones…. And here it can be against the law to be stupid. ;)

[pudgmo]

In my area your pretty much taking your life in your hands if you go out in the woods during hunting season. Other than Chai Vang I don't recall anyone being prosecuted for shooting someone else while they were out hunting. Yet you hear about it every year. I don't think Cheney should be charged unless the guy he hit wants to press them.
Chewy, I didn't even recognize you. Is that GW in there? Looks cool.

[Swoop187]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/02/16/cheney/index.html

Regardless of the fact this is an incident regarding the VP or Pres of the USA, does anyone out ther actually think that the regular hunter that would be involved in the same incident would be subject to charges?

I'm personally not suprised that NO charges were filed against the Vice President. If the guy he would have shot would have died from his wounds, I believe the same result.

Now I think that everyone with a brain would know that if someone they know would accidentally shoot a fellow hunter would result in criminal charges, this issue is obviously above the law!

This Bush Administration is CORRUPT, and now obviously can get away with virtually anything including charges that would send any normal person to JAIL for "accidentally" shooting a friend while hunting!

This Administration MUST BE STOPPED ONE WAY OR ANOTHER!

More rhetoric from the far left.

Nice fair and balanced poll options. when you add a option that says " Hunting accidents happen all the time; why couldn't one happen to the Vice President. Then I will vote.

[whocares]

Since I didn't have other option, I voted that I agree with everything Bush says. Even when that's almost totally false.

[Swoop187]

Mmhm. That's goes for my region, as well. However, its obvious Cheney isn't going to get treated like just another shmoe... that's just wishful thinking. Yes, normally, if somebody shot another person in a hunting mishap, the police would bring them in for questioning at minimum. Of course that didn't happen.

The guy isnt dead or in a coma, The guy backed up what Chaney said.

Enough said.

Get over it.

[TFS]

More rhetoric from the far left.

Nice fair and balanced poll options. when you add a option that says " Hunting accidents happen all the time; why couldn't one happen to the Vice President. Then I will vote.
Yeah, I agree.

Way to make a poll that forces those who wish to be recognized that don't see a problem here force themselves to be counted among the blind sheep or not be represented.

To the thread starter, and everyone who feels the same way he does:

Learn to not load the question and answers before asking anything political ever again.

I said it in another thread: the percent of people who have been an admin that also hunt is extremely high. Hunting accidents are really an odds game, meaning that it was only a matter of time before a member of admin be involved in one.

I love how jackasses abandon logic and rational thought to automatically condemn and connect one unofrtunate ACCIDENT to all the other SUPPOSED and few proven evils done by the Bush admin.

Honestly, if you expect him to be held to the same standards as the average joe, and that he should be charged with some sort of crime, where the hell are the annual threads about this and that average joe involved in a hunting accident that also go without being charged? Where's your outrage over them?

Face it: your crying over this is just a result of your biased agenda and wishful thinking..

[bergshadow]

The poll has no option for me.

Based on what has become public, I would not have charged Cheney. Hunters have been charged for accidents in Chai Vang's area, accidents such as putting a bullet into a car or house they didn't see, shooting someone's dog or horse by accident or mistake (I once did a thumbnail calculation for how many hunters had to be shooting blindly across roads for cars to be hit in the frequency reported, and resolved to stay out of the woods in deer season), hunting while drunk, etc. But that requires evidence, and evidence requires timely investigation, and timely investigation did not happen here.

Yes, Cheney considers himself above the law. He's not a public servant, in his own eyes. But that is one of the reasons the people who trust him trust him - they consider that a mark of competence.

[LimpPimped]

Yes, Cheney considers himself above the law. He's not a public servant, in his own eyes. But that is one of the reasons the people who trust him trust him - they consider that a mark of competence.

And you know this due to your extensive investigations of people that trust him?

[Nocturnal]

Must be nice,

If shoot somebody can I refuse to be interviewed by the police?

A normal citizen would probably be arrested, especially considering the "victim" nearly died. Cops aren't too likely to wait until a guy comes out of critical care to ask him if he wants to press charges.

Lets add up recent political history.


GW admits that he spied on americans. = nothing happens

It looks pretty damn postive that the Iraq war evidence was fabricated or purposely selected for content. = nothing happens

Cheney shoots somebody = he hides for 3 days before saying anything

Republican congressmembers "no we won't swear in the attourney general"

Ditto "no we refuse to swear in oil executives"

Clinton gets a BJ = a special investigation with a budget 5x larger than that spent on investigating the WTC, a sitting president is sworn in and grilled about his personal life, he goes through the early stages of impeachement.

Ronny "mommy" Regan defies a congressional order and continues to support the Contras, in the process helping Iraq and Iran kill millions of their soldiers. = "I forgot mommy", and now Ollie North is a beloved guest on FNC

Yup, makes sense to me.

[YouEnjoyMyself]

There are a lot of evil men in our government, I think it's as simple as that.

What's sad about this is that a bunch of people will flock to this thread to defend these actions, make excuses and try to shed light on other events to downplay these horrid acts.

[camjoe87]

make excuses and try to shed light on other events to downplay these horrid acts.
Wait. You mean the "ac·ci·dent" ...

or .. An unexpected and undesirable event, especially one resulting in damage or harm.

What else needs to be said? I have yet to see a dictionary define the term accident as a "horrid" act.

[YouEnjoyMyself]

Wait. You mean the "ac·ci·dent" ...

or .. An unexpected and undesirable event, especially one resulting in damage or harm.

What else needs to be said? I have yet to see a dictionary define the term accident as a "horrid" act.

I am capable of looking beyond this incident, this shooting is just a minor example of the current admin doing whatever the fuck they please.

Notice how I pluralize those words.

[camjoe87]

Well then that's highly understandble. I thought you were talking about this incident in particular. My mistake

[Liberator13]

In this case, him being VP has nothing to do with it.

I have dozens of hunting accident stories from my dad... none of them ended with charges being brought foward.

It was an accident, there is no reason to press charges against him.
People with guns shooting... accidents are going to happen, that is all there is to it.

[Face Plant]

It was an accident but I guess you could charge him with careless use of a firearm. Cheney is not a noob hunter although he acted like it here. He broke the cardinal rule of hunting , he didn't know where his fellow hunters were before firing. I find it hard to believe he would be so careless unless he had more than one beer like he claimed.

[Squibbles]

he pretends to be a redkneck but cant even handle a shotgun, disgrace to all us southerners, thats why i didnt vote for him....well not really why i didnt vote for him, but i still didnt vote for him

[whocares]

Had it been a democrat and there would people saying that he should be interviewed or sent to jail... you must be responsible while hunting...

However, in my opinion, it's a legitimate accident...

[jn_powell]

Hell, I figure if Ted Kennedy can get away with letting a girl die and not reporting it this is nothing. Call me crazy.

[whocares]

I figure that there were many people saying that he should be punished as well, and I agree... if he really deserves it.

And again, I agree that Cheney should not be charged...

[troutofdoom]

I like that there are suddenly 10 attorneys on the board. And your poll sucks.

Cheney sacrificed his reputation in order to give millions of americans happiness in the form of late night TV jokes. He is a saint.

[whocares]

I like that there are suddenly 10 attorneys on the board. And your poll sucks.

Cheney sacrificed his reputation in order to give millions of americans happiness in the form of late night TV jokes. He is a saint.
Woa, tell that to the man that was accidentaly shot, he's happy about it.

[Deamatix]

If the victim pressed charges THEN Cheney went scott free, then yes that would be him being above the law.

But if no charges were filed then there's really no case.

[LimpPimped]

The victim said it was an accident, the land owner said it was an accident, and the police ruled it an accident. The victim's account of what happened, matches the account told by the land owner. The scenario sounds plausible, and accidents like this occur every year. By all accounts we have it sure sounds like a tragic hunting accident. I don't think anyone should be charged.

[troutofdoom]

Woa, tell that to the man that was accidentaly shot, he's happy about it.

Publicity stunt. A good one too. I'd get shot in the chest with pellets to get my name in every paper in the country for a week if I had a way to profit from it.

[LimpPimped]

Publicity stunt. A good one too. I'd get shot in the chest with pellets to get my name in every paper in the country for a week if I had a way to profit from it.

Now thats what I call thinking out side the box!

[Nocturnal]

Clearly Cheney used his office for special treatment, anyone else would have been put through the ringer. We aren't talking about filing charges, just a routine investigation.

Especially considering at first they said they had a few drinks, then suddenly they never had anyway.... Yeah, I always forget that kind of stuff too. :rolleyes:

This whole issue isn't that large, it just reinforces the fact that we have a bunch of assholes in office that believe they are above the law.

In this case, him being VP has nothing to do with it.

I have dozens of hunting accident stories from my dad... none of them ended with charges being brought foward.

It was an accident, there is no reason to press charges against him.
People with guns shooting... accidents are going to happen, that is all there is to it.

Were any of the shooters questioned by the police? Were any of the victims on their deathbed afterwords?

Isn't it normal to check for sobriety after an accident involving a firearm?

[Danimal87]

I'm not caring for the options I've been given for the poll.

I think the left would be a little more respected if they weren't looking into every issue in a way to throw the administration out of office. It gets old, and it quickly becomes obvious that they aren't concerned about justice, but instead for a pretext to help their own agenda. A good alternative would be to win elections, but thats awful hard for the left to do.

[whocares]

I'm not caring for the options I've been given for the poll.

I think the left would be a little more respected if they weren't looking into every issue in a way to throw the administration out of office. It gets old, and it quickly becomes obvious that they aren't concerned about justice, but instead for a pretext to help their own agenda. A good alternative would be to win elections, but thats awful hard for the left to do.
That always happens. What about when the right tried by every means to throw Clinton out because a damn blowjob? The opposite party from the one in power will be always nuts!!

[YouEnjoyMyself]

I'm not caring for the options I've been given for the poll.

I think the left would be a little more respected if they weren't looking into every issue in a way to throw the administration out of office. It gets old, and it quickly becomes obvious that they aren't concerned about justice, but instead for a pretext to help their own agenda. A good alternative would be to win elections, but thats awful hard for the left to do.

Told you guys some people would try and downplay the actions of this admin.

Could it be people are looking into every issue because they are deserving of attention?

It doesn't strike you odd that the attorney general wasn't sworn in when he was sworn in a year ago?

It doesn't strike you as odd oil execs weren't sworn in?

It doesn't strike you as odd that the VP took so long to disclose what happened?

[camjoe87]

ere any of the shooters questioned by the police? Were any of the victims on their deathbed afterwords?

Isn't it normal to check for sobriety after an accident involving a firearm?

I thought Cheney was questioned by police ... I could be wrong. It didn't happen right away, but I thought he was.

[Swoop187]

There was no need for an investigation. The two sides matched up.

When you get into a mild car accident do you have accident technicians come out and investigate?

There is nothing there to probe but to matching sides of a story.

Enough Said.

[Synch]

I refuse to vote, the poll options are biased and discriminatory.

[Nocturnal]

I thought Cheney was questioned by police ... I could be wrong. It didn't happen right away, but I thought he was.

3 days later

There was no need for an investigation. The two sides matched up.

When you get into a mild car accident do you have accident technicians come out and investigate?

There is nothing there to probe but to matching sides of a story.

Enough Said.


2 sides of the story? As in the guy in intensive care at the hospital? I'm definately sure he was able to give the police a total account.

"mild car accident"? = nearly fatal firearm accident?

If you get into an accident, and somebody gets sent to the hospital and nearly dies, the police will question you, period. Even if both sides match up the person is usually checked for sobriety.

[Sketcher]

The police have already come out and said that there is nothing they could charge him on. And it's not just because he's the VP. Very VERY few hunters get charged with anything when an accident occurs.
As for being drunk, he said he had one beer five hours before the incident. Alcolhol had nothing to do with it.

[Liberator13]

I don't understand why people are arguing this so much.

Who cares, the guy didn't die, everybody is still alive, the world is not completely on fire.

Its ridiculous, its not like it directly effects us.

[Swoop187]

3 days later




2 sides of the story? As in the guy in intensive care at the hospital? I'm definately sure he was able to give the police a total account.

"mild car accident"? = nearly fatal firearm accident?

If you get into an accident, and somebody gets sent to the hospital and nearly dies, the police will question you, period. Even if both sides match up the person is usually checked for sobriety.

Nearly fatal? ......He got hit by a bunch of BB's, It wasnt buck shot. And he was conscious the whole time. Then he had a hart attack after the police talked to him. He had a heart attack because a BB slipped into his heart. By the way it was a extremely mild heart attack.

Again why dont you just read the facts online from a reliable resource instead of getting your facts from the grape vine.

[Nocturnal]

Nearly fatal? ......He got hit by a bunch of BB's, It wasnt buck shot. And he was conscious the whole time. Then he had a hart attack after the police talked to him. He had a heart attack because a BB slipped into his heart. By the way it was a extremely mild heart attack.

Again why dont you just read the facts online from a reliable resource instead of getting your facts from the grape vine.

Silly me, guy gets shot, has a heart attack because of it, and I'm crazy for calling it "nearly fatal". "Extremely mild heart attack", that is some pretty nice spin there.

[TFS]

EDIT: Noc, there is such thing as different severities of heart attacks. Mild ones are usually never fatal, average can be if not gotten to medical treatment, and severe usually are fatal.

It wasn't spin, it was fact. If you've never heard about anyone having a mild heart attack or a severe heart attack, you need to read up more on medical cases.

Eddie Guerrero suffered a severe and sudden heart attack, resulting in instant death.

Dick Cheney's was average.

I think it can all be summed up simply by siting the law.

The law says Cheney can't be found guilty without a trial.

A trial can't take place without an investigation.

An investigation is not allowed to take place without the victim pressing charges of negligence.

Until the victim does so, Cheney is not gonna get in any trouble.

That does not mean he's acting above the law. That does not mean this admin gets away with whatever it wants.

It's simply the way the law works, and it's been that way for a long, long time. It's not special treatment for Cheney, it's general law.

And Chewy, it doesn't matter what the fuck Canada's laws are, because this isn't Canada, it's the US, so bringing up Canadian laws is pointless when trying to establish Cheney acting above the law.

End of discussion. Quit bitching about how Cheney should be punished for something when the law doesn't allow for it. No one gives a fuck about your opinions of the administration and yadda-yadda this and them doing that wrong.

God, Bush could use the wrong fork at a formal event and you monkeys would start a shit-storm over it.

[Nocturnal]

Nobody is asking for punishment, I would have been happy with a normal investigation, and maybe a public statement without waiting 4 days. Even GW was a little upset about the dealy.

[TFS]

Nobody is asking for punishment, I would have been happy with a normal investigation, and maybe a public statement without waiting 4 days. Even GW was a little upset about the dealy.
well, then let GW deal with it since he is, you know, Cheney's boss.

There's no need to keep whining about it since you know nothing will come of it.

It's just gonna fade away like everything else.

[Swoop187]

I loved it when Ted Kennedy crashed his car into a lake with Mary Jo Kopechne and she died and Kennedy ran away from the scene, All he got was a 2 month suspended sentence and the Dems were defending him. Now Cheney has a hunting accident and the democrats want his head.

[camjoe87]

That's politics for ya' ..

[Nocturnal]

I loved it when Ted Kennedy crashed his car into a lake with Mary Jo Kopechne and she died and Kennedy ran away from the scene, All he got was a 2 month suspended sentence and the Dems were defending him. Now Cheney has a hunting accident and the democrats want his head.


lol,

so shooting somebody is an "accident"

but a car accident isn't an "accident"?

Your choice of words is very telling.

I love you guys, your only defense is "joe blow did something simliar back then" so it's ok for us now.

[jn_powell]

lol,

so shooting somebody is an "accident"

but a car accident isn't an "accident"?

I love you guys, your only defense is "joe blow did something simliar back then" so it's ok for us now.
He went home and left her to die...that is not an accident.

[Swoop187]

lol,

so shooting somebody is an "accident"

but a car accident isn't an "accident"?

Your choice of words is very telling.

I love you guys, your only defense is "joe blow did something simliar back then" so it's ok for us now.

How do you just drive a car into a lake?

That there buddy is called manslaughter and or reckless homocide.

What Cheney did was an accident and there were numerous people their that confirmed just that.

When good ol' boy Teddy crashed his car into a lake there were no witnesses to it. All we know to this day is Teddy Drove into a lake and left a woman in the car, took off and reported it a day or two later. If Cheney did that I would all for him going to Prison for a few year and wouldnt be happy with any less.

[Nocturnal]

Are you serious?

People crash into weird places all the time, for any number of reasons, traffic, alcohal, stupidity etc.

There are two differences here, one is that Cheney's victim did not die, and the other is that I assume somebody called for help quickly. That is unless you are claiming that Ted drove his car into the lake on purpose to kill her. Seems odd to me though. Most likely it was, oh shit I got into an accident and she died, or oh shit, I was drunk driving and this chick died. Exactly the same as Cheney.


A dumbass shooting somebody (and that person dieing) because he was being negligent, is the same as wrecking your car and killing somebody. Both are "accidents", both could have been caused by liqour, or stupidity, or bad luck.

[Synch]

Are you serious?

People crash into weird places all the time, for any number of reasons, traffic, alcohal, stupidity etc.

There are two differences here, one is that Cheney's victim did not die, and the other is that I assume somebody called for help quickly. That is unless you are claiming that Ted drove his car into the lake on purpose to kill her. Seems odd to me though. Most likely it was, oh shit I got into an accident and she died, or oh shit, I was drunk driving and this chick died. Exactly the same as Cheney.


A dumbass shooting somebody (and that person dieing) because he was being negligent, is the same as wrecking your car and killing somebody. Both are "accidents", both could have been caused by liqour, or stupidity, or bad luck.


you can't blame stupidity or bad luck... it's an accident then. His not being charged, and cheney wasn't drunk.

you call him a dumbass, yet his is able to become the vice president of the united states and arguebably the most powerful man in the world. Since you're so smart, achieve the power he has, then you can call him a dumbass.

[Swoop187]

Are you serious?

People crash into weird places all the time, for any number of reasons, traffic, alcohal, stupidity etc.

There are two differences here, one is that Cheney's victim did not die, and the other is that I assume somebody called for help quickly. That is unless you are claiming that Ted drove his car into the lake on purpose to kill her. Seems odd to me though. Most likely it was, oh shit I got into an accident and she died, or oh shit, I was drunk driving and this chick died. Exactly the same as Cheney.


A dumbass shooting somebody (and that person dieing) because he was being negligent, is the same as wrecking your car and killing somebody. Both are "accidents", both could have been caused by liqour, or stupidity, or bad luck.

Yes but the thing is there were no witnesses to what Teddy did. There were plenty for Cheney. If that guy would have died then Cheney should have been held accountable to a degree.

Now do you think Ted Kennedy got off lightly for what he did?

2 months suspended prison sentence.

Because whoever started this thread seems to think that Cheney should be in jail right now.

[Nocturnal]

you can't blame stupidity or bad luck... it's an accident then. His not being charged, and cheney wasn't drunk.

you call him a dumbass, yet his is able to become the vice president of the united states and arguebably the most powerful man in the world. Since you're so smart, achieve the power he has, then you can call him a dumbass.

As I said, a car accident and a hunting accident are both accidents.

Sorry, I wasn't born into a rich and powerful family. My ancestors worked for a living. Tell you what Synch, why don't you try to become president? Good luck.

I wouldn't want his power, he is not a good man. I suppose also we should lay praise at the feet of other leaders in history? We can't condem Stalin for his stupidity?

Yes but the thing is there were no witnesses to what Teddy did. There were plenty for Cheney. If that guy would have died then Cheney should have been held accountable to a degree.

Now do you think Ted Kennedy got off lightly for what he did?

2 months suspended prison sentence.

Because whoever started this thread seems to think that Cheney should be in jail right now.


I have not taken the full measure of the Kennedy case, he was born into a powerfull wealthy family, so his punishment probably was light.

Jail is a bit of a stretch, I only want equal treatment.

[Synch]

As I said, a car accident and a hunting accident are both accidents.

Sorry, I wasn't born into a rich and powerful family. My ancestors worked for a living. Tell you what Synch, why don't you try to become president? Good luck.

I wouldn't want his power, he is not a good man. I suppose also we should lay praise at the feet of other leaders in history? We can't condem Stalin for his stupidity?

I never called the president or any powerful political figure stupid or a dumbass, while you did, so I'm asking if you are so much smarter why don't you become vice president? Or even a senator? Fuck it just become a representative!

[whocares]

You don't need to be a great genious to become a president. And Synch commited a great ad hominem fallacy. It was about time...

[Nocturnal]

I never called the president or any powerful political figure stupid or a dumbass.

Great for you, however I am not blinded by simple authority. GW and Cheny are nothing special, being a politician only requires money, the right platform, and a good manager.

As I said, I don't have the opportunity or the desire. One day I will probably have the financial resources, but nahh, it's not for me.

[Swoop187]

As I said, a car accident and a hunting accident are both accidents.

Sorry, I wasn't born into a rich and powerful family. My ancestors worked for a living. Tell you what Synch, why don't you try to become president? Good luck.

I wouldn't want his power, he is not a good man. I suppose also we should lay praise at the feet of other leaders in history? We can't condem Stalin for his stupidity?

Why isnt Cheney a good man? And Cheney didnt grow up rich either, He was a janitor at one time.

Let me guess Bill "Blow Job" Clinton was a good man right? after all he did just fork over top secret technology to China after all, Whatever it takes right?

[Synch]

You don't need to be a great genious to become a president. And Synch commited a great ad hominem fallacy. It was about time...

... reread it, nocturnal called dick cheney a dumbass, I said he wasn't so dull or else he couldn't have became vice president, noc's statement made it seem complete idiots can become vice president.(idiots doesn't mean people with poor moral values, are corrupt, or doesn't fit your political agenda.)

[whocares]

... reread it, nocturnal called dick cheney a dumbass, I said he wasn't so dull or else he couldn't have became vice president, noc's statement made it seem complete idiots can become vice president.(idiots doesn't mean people with poor moral values, are corrupt, or doesn't fit your political agenda.)
It doesn't matter, you stated that since Cheney is Vice President then he gotta be smarter, and this is supported with the: "why don't you become president" statement that you made.

[Synch]

It doesn't matter, you stated that since Cheney is Vice President then he gotta be smarter, and this is supported with the: "why don't you become president" statement that you made.

I brought him into the arguement because since stupidity is relative, noc must be claiming he himself is smarter than cheney.

Great for you, however I am not blinded by simple authority. GW and Cheny are nothing special, being a politician only requires money, the right platform, and a good manager.

As I said, I don't have the opportunity or the desire. One day I will probably have the financial resources, but nahh, it's not for me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Cheney

he went to yales but never graduated, his dad was a registered democrat, and he earned an academic scholorship for yales... he wasn't that wealthy, but he became wealthy, and in order to do that you have to have some brains.

[Nocturnal]

Why isnt Cheney a good man? And Cheney didnt grow up rich either, He was a janitor at one time.

Let me guess Bill "Blow Job" Clinton was a good man right? after all he did just fork over top secret technology to China after all, Whatever it takes right?

Cheney is not a good person, his policies and actions would mark him as an evil person by most accounts.

Did I say anything about Clinton?

Well, at least he didn't let the Chinease keep on of our spy planes for weeks without a responce.

... reread it, nocturnal called dick cheney a dumbass, I said he wasn't so dull or else he couldn't have became vice president, noc's statement made it seem complete idiots can become vice president.(idiots doesn't mean people with poor moral values, are corrupt, or doesn't fit your political agenda.)

Do you believe GW has above average intelligence? What about Reagan? Or most other presidents for that matter.

BTW, the word "dumbass" doesn't imply a 100% intelligene judgement, anyone can be a dumbass for doing something stupid.

I brought him into the arguement because since stupidity is relative, noc must be claiming he himself is smarter than cheney.



There are good odds that I am more intelligent than him. I do know that I am brighter than most politicians out there. For one thing I've never shot a buddy of mine in the face. That must count for something.

[TFS]

Come on, Noc, remember driver's ed? There's no such thing as a car accident. The only way a car INcident occurs is when someone is not paying proper attention to what they are doing. I guess it's harder to see a lake than it is to see your hunting buddy hiding in bushes, though.

Wasn't good ol' Ted drunk too? I remember that being part of it. Even if it was never proven he was drunk, he wasn't questioned until enough time had passed for him to come off any good vibes alcohol would have given him, meaning all we have to go on is his word. I mean, if that's what some of you are proposing with Cheney, the same can be applied to someone who has a publicly noted history of alcohol-related issues.

And for Christ's sake, Ted fled the scene, knowing she needed help, and just let her die when she could have been saved. Cheney realized he fucked up and got the guy immediate medical attention that probably did save his life, IF the medical problems were enough to potentially kill him, and made sure he was alright and gonna be ok.

Kennedy let someone die because of his own shortcomings as a human being and cowardice, and you defend him like he's a fucking saint.

Cheney fucked up and did everything he could to make sure the guy would be ok despite several experts saying there was no chance of the guy dying anyway, and you think he should be investigated?

Play biased favorites much?

[Stu Pidasole]

I said he wasn't so dull or else he couldn't have became vice president, noc's statement made it seem complete idiots can become vice president.(idiots doesn't mean people with poor moral values, are corrupt, or doesn't fit your political agenda.)

I respect your opinion, but.................

I'm sorry Dan Quale kind of was an idiot.

[Swoop187]

I brought him into the arguement because since stupidity is relative, noc must be claiming he himself is smarter than cheney.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Cheney

he went to yales but never graduated, his dad was a registered democrat, and he earned an academic scholorship for yales... he wasn't that wealthy, but he became wealthy, and in order to do that you have to have some brains.

Like I said he was a janitor.

He went from being a Janitor to Vice President, Thats a big step.

[Synch]

Do you believe GW has above average intelligence? What about Reagan? Or most other presidents for that matter.

BTW, the word "dumbass" doesn't imply a 100% intelligene judgement, anyone can be a dumbass for doing something stupid.



There are good odds that I am more intelligent than him. I do know that I am brighter than most politicians out there. For one thing I've never shot a buddy of mine in the face. That must count for something.

GW has had a rich family in history, his grandfather sold arms, and his dad was a businessman, not to mention history.. look at Bush's political career.. Now look at cheney's bio before talking.. Cheney wasn't filthy rich like Bush, and he carved his own path and is a self made man.

There's a good chance you're more intelligent than cheney? :lol: I highly doubt it, and politicians in general is a very broad term..

I respect your opinion, but.................

I'm sorry Dan Quale kind of was an idiot.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Quayle

cause his ancestors were rich.

[Swoop187]

I have to say the two biggest political bone heads of the last 10 years are David Duke and Cindy Sheehan. They got to where they are for being boneheads, everyone else worked to get where they were.

[Swoop187]

GW has had a rich family in history, his grandfather sold arms, and his dad was a businessman, not to mention history.. look at Bush's political career.. Now look at cheney's bio before talking.. Cheney wasn't filthy rich like Bush, and he carved his own path and is a self made man.

There's a good chance you're more intelligent than cheney? :lol: I highly doubt it, and politicians in general is a very broad term..

The Bush family owned the Texas Rangers and Tons of oil refineries, That shows how rich Bush is, But you still need something up stairs to be president.

[Nocturnal]

Kennedy let someone die because of his own shortcomings as a human being and cowardice, and you defend him like he's a fucking saint.

Cheney fucked up and did everything he could to make sure the guy would be ok despite several experts saying there was no chance of the guy dying anyway, and you think he should be investigated?

Play biased favorites much?

I don't believe I defended Kennedy even once in my posts.

The investigation should have been done right then, nobody should be allowed to hide for 4 days.

GW has had a rich family in history, his grandfather sold arms, and his dad was a businessman, not to mention history.. look at Bush's political career.. Now look at cheney's bio before talking.. Cheney wasn't filthy rich like Bush, and he carved his own path and is a self made man.

There's a good chance you're more intelligent than cheney? :lol: I highly doubt it, and politicians in general is a very broad term..




Get involved in enough corruption, and it's easy to make it to the top.

Man, you really have a crush on Cheney don't you?

Answer this question, does the average politican have an above-average IQ?

[Swoop187]

I don't believe I defended Kennedy even once in my posts.

The investigation should have been done right then, nobody should be allowed to hide for 4 days.




Get involved in enough corruption, and it's easy to make it to the top.

Man, you really have a crush on Cheney don't you?

Answer this question, does the average politican have an above-average IQ?

When you compare Kennedy to Cheney you are kind of defending Kennedy, the circumstances are not even close between the two.

[Nocturnal]

When you compare Kennedy to Cheney you are kind of defending Kennedy, the circumstances are not even close between the two.

I pointed out the 2 key differences, I think that is good enough.

[Synch]

Get involved in enough corruption, and it's easy to make it to the top.

Man, you really have a crush on Cheney don't you?

Answer this question, does the average politican have an above-average IQ?

To be corrupt at that level takes intelligence, I don't like cheney, and stop using ad hominemes, saying that I'm gay.. crush on cheney..

Although I admitt Bush isn't the most articulate person, Cheney is no where near the stupidity that you described he is. He didn't start at the top, he made it up there.

[Nocturnal]

To be corrupt at that level takes intelligence, I don't like cheney, and stop using ad hominemes, saying that I'm gay.. crush on cheney..

Although I admitt Bush isn't the most articulate person, Cheney is no where near the stupidity that you described he is. He didn't start at the top, he made it up there.


I called him a dumbass, and I suggested that he wasn't more intelligent than me.

Sounds like you like Cheney to me, and that wasn't really a claim that you were gay.

[Synch]

I called him a dumbass, and I suggested that he wasn't more intelligent than me.

Sounds like you like Cheney to me, and that wasn't really a claim that you were gay.

I don't like him, he looks evil to me, but saying he is less intelligent than you are is uncalled for, not to mention you didn't state that in those words, but you specifically targetted him as a "dumbass", and uses that to discredit him.

[Swoop187]

If you all want to see a real corrupt politician look up former Illinois Governor George Ryan. This guy is going to get 100+ years in prison for his corruptness.

[kazook]

It was a simple hunting accident. I've seen shit like that happen around the woods before, no big deal. It's not like Cheney went out with his shotgun to do a drive by or something.

[TFS]

It was a simple hunting accident. I've seen shit like that happen around the woods before, no big deal. It's not like Cheney went out with his shotgun to do a drive by or something.
I got 5 bucks that someone's going to try and suggest that was the case eventually in this thread.

[ElectricPeanut]

Cheney shouldn't get nailed for something like this even though I hate his fucking guts and anyone else would never get off the hook for something like this. It's still funny as fucking hell to make fun of him for it though, and I don't think that this is something that he will ever forget.

[jn_powell]

Cheney shouldn't get nailed for something like this even though I hate his fucking guts and anyone else would never get off the hook for something like this. It's still funny as fucking hell to make fun of him for it though, and I don't think that this is something that he will ever forget.
People "get off the hook" for something like this all the time. Hunting accidents are not uncommon. Hell, they have a report specifically for these accidents that the game warden fills out.

[whocares]

According to comedians, Cheney is a WMD, so, Bush should send him to Iraq and find him to say that there are WMD's in Iraq, and thus justify the war.

[Sparky_07]

I see no problem with the situation. It was an accident. And I don't care for this administration, but it seems really cheap and stupid of people to turn yet another situation into a political thing.

[Swoop187]

I see no problem with the situation. It was an accident. And I don't care for this administration, but it seems really cheap and stupid of people to turn yet another situation into a political thing.

Yea but you know these hardcore left wingers were just itching for something else to happen and they got it.

Right now its the Media's fault for this thing being so big.

[jn_powell]

I do have to say that, although I think this is being overblown, it has made for some really, really funny Daily Show episodes this week.

[Fossil]

I have only one thing to add to this discussion:

http://rickdavismusic.com/cheneysgotagun.mp3

[Synch]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/02/17/cheney/index.html

he's alive and kickin.

[DeeDee]

I don't understand what the big deal is. Yes, these accidents do happen all the time.. in fact a young boy was just killed in a hunting accident where I live last weekend. I had a guy I went to school with that had his leg accidently shot off by his Best friend. That guy wasn't charged because it was an accident.

This is all incredibly silly.

[TORCH]

Alright alright, so many people in my thread seem to go by the idea that accidents do happen.... yes they do!

But, there are many major factors that distance the normal redneck accidentally shooting a drunken friendly hunter....

Obviously the Secret Service was there in numbers when this happened. And as we all know the Secret Service watches everything. How the fuck did this incident still happen?

Though many GOP supporters say they feel sorry for the Vice Pres, what if it wasn't the lawyer friend, but the VP that was shot? Wouldn't that be such a fucking bigger issue?

I personally think that another outcome would be seen. At least the Press would have been given information on the VP shooting IF AND ONLY IF it was the VP and not his Lawyer friend. This info would have been released within an hour.

Given the fact that is WAS the VP doing the shooting, they halted the amount of time before going public in order to "get their stories straight"!

What if two teenage guys find a gun belonging to one's father, and ACCIDENTALLY one of the teens gets shot... from looking at this incident, I guess no one should be at fault nor any charges filed. Sorry, but this doesn't happen in real life.

Leave it to this Administration to have one of the "High Up's" to shoot another person, and have the charges dropped! FUCKING BULLSHIT!

I THINK THAT EVERY AMERICAN SHOULD ACCIDENTALLY SHOOT SOMEONE (shoot someone who voted for Bush)! Don't worry, the charges will be dropped!

[ElectricPeanut]

People "get off the hook" for something like this all the time. Hunting accidents are not uncommon. Hell, they have a report specifically for these accidents that the game warden fills out.
I disagree, because people now a days will sue for virtually anything now.

[TORCH]

You're an idiot.

The Secret Service is supposed to be looking though Cheny's scope as he takes aim at a hunting range?

Yes it would have been a much bigger issue if the VP was shot...he is the friggin vice president. However, if the roles were reversed, I still don't think anyone would have been charged with any criminal acts.

The hell does a completly different senario involving two teenages have to do with a hunting accident?

Good luck with that shooting somebody thing. Tell us how that works out...in 5 - 10 years.

Why does the same incident between two normal citizens fall into this issue??? Because the outcome would be different. You can't honestly tell me that a group of regular citizens hunting would end up with the same outcome - no civil/criminal charges being filed.

Have a problem with that? What if it was your father hunting, and was accidentally shot causing thousands if not millions of dollars in hospital bills. So it was an accident, would you be able to completely forgive it? What if your family didn't have health insurance!

Also, would you be fine with waiting 24 hours before you found out your father was hit? Just wondering!

The main reason I have a problem with this issue is not only due to the fact that one of the two highest ranking officials in the US was involved in this incident. It wasn't Joe Nobody from TN shooting a friendly hunter!

I'm sure that if it was YOUR father that was shot, and hospitalized... you would feel soooooo sooooo soooooo bad for the person who shot him! I cry for the shooter.... wouldn't you?

GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK!

[jn_powell]

I disagree, because people now a days will sue for virtually anything now.
Apples and oranges my friend. A civil case and a criminal case are in no way related so it really has nothing to do with this thread. OJ was cleared of murder in a criminal court yet lost to the family in civil court, just as an example of how unrelated they are. In this case, the victim is not going to sue, so that is that.

Why does the same incident between two normal citizens fall into this issue??? Because the outcome would be different. You can't honestly tell me that a group of regular citizens hunting would end up with the same outcome - no civil/criminal charges being filed.
Once again apples and oranges. If the victim wants to file a civil suit, fine. In the end, if he were to win, it would do nothing to hurt Dick Cheney...the man is a multi-millionaire.
Have a problem with that? What if it was your father hunting, and was accidentally shot causing thousands if not millions of dollars in hospital bills. So it was an accident, would you be able to completely forgive it? What if your family didn't have health insurance!
These men are both rich, payment for the medical bills is not an issue. But to answer your question, I could see a civil suit if I were in this situation and could not pay the bills. That is assuming, ofcourse, that the person who shot did not volunteer to pick up the tab. In that case I would not file suit..accidents do happen and my "father" put himself into the situation.
Also, would you be fine with waiting 24 hours before you found out your father was hit? Just wondering!
Really!!!!! That exclamation point sure makes it dramatic, but I think you forgot something...the public was not notified for 24 hours, which has nothing to do with his family, who were all most likely contacted immediately.
The main reason I have a problem with this issue is not only due to the fact that one of the two highest ranking officials in the US was involved in this incident. It wasn't Joe Nobody from TN shooting a friendly hunter!
Out in the field they were just two ordinary guys.
I'm sure that if it was YOUR father that was shot, and hospitalized... you would feel soooooo sooooo soooooo bad for the person who shot him! I cry for the shooter.... wouldn't you?

GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK!
The only person who has said they feel sorry for the shooter is, surprise, the victim, so I guess your "point" is moot.

[Swoop187]

Why does the same incident between two normal citizens fall into this issue??? Because the outcome would be different. You can't honestly tell me that a group of regular citizens hunting would end up with the same outcome - no civil/criminal charges being filed.

Hunting accidents happen all the time and 90% of them go with out charges.

Have a problem with that? What if it was your father hunting, and was accidentally shot causing thousands if not millions of dollars in hospital bills. So it was an accident, would you be able to completely forgive it? What if your family didn't have health insurance!

The man Cheney shot is a rich millionaire lawyer. Besides you can always sue for medical bills but most people would offer to pay the medical bills of the person they shot

Also, would you be fine with waiting 24 hours before you found out your father was hit? Just wondering!

Im sure Harry Whittington's family knew he had been wounded before we did.

The main reason I have a problem with this issue is not only due to the fact that one of the two highest ranking officials in the US was involved in this incident. It wasn't Joe Nobody from TN shooting a friendly hunter!

So the rules are different for the vice President in an accidental shooting then a regular civilian?

I'm sure that if it was YOUR father that was shot, and hospitalized... you would feel soooooo sooooo soooooo bad for the person who shot him! I cry for the shooter.... wouldn't you?

FUCK HEAD, ACCIDENTS HAPPEN.


GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK!


You are a fucking idiot, your rhetoric is useless and you apparently don't know what happened and you dont want to know what happened, your only interested in how the liberals look at it and you let them brain wash you into thinking its all some big cover up or something.

get a life.

[shade]

Regardless of the fact this is an incident regarding the VP or Pres of the USA, does anyone out ther actually think that the regular hunter that would be involved in the same incident would be subject to charges?No. Accident != Murder. A grandfather recently accidentally killed his grand daughter on a hunting trip near in Texas when his rifle round meant for a deer ricocheted off of a rock and killed her.

In a case like that prosecution is solely in the hands of the victim or when dead, the victim's family, unless the police have some reason to believe it was on purpose.

Grow up.

Edit: Love the torch flame kits!

[Swoop187]

No. Accident != Murder. A grandfather recently accidentally killed his grand daughter on a hunting trip near in Texas when his rifle round meant for a deer ricocheted off of a rock and killed her.

In a case like that prosecution is solely in the hands of the victim or when dead, the victim's family, unless the police have some reason to believe it was on purpose.

Grow up.

That would be considered manslaughter BUT Teddy Kennedy killed someone back in 69' when he drove his car into a lake.

You know what he got Torch? 2 years suspended sentence. But I guess that was OK because Teddy was a Liberal/Democrat.

[jn_powell]

That would be considered manslaughter
It is not manslaughter unless it happens because of the commission of an illegal act. Hunting is not an illegal act.
http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/m013.htm

EDIT: He also did not wrongfully perform a legal act if a bullet ricocheted. Cheney on the other hand...I could possibly see a case for involuntary if the man had died. Possibly.

[Swoop187]

It is not manslaughter unless it happens because of the commission of an illegal act. Hunting is not an illegal act.
http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/m013.htm

Every state has different statutes.

[shade]

That would be considered manslaughter BUT Teddy Kennedy killed someone back in 69' when he drove his car into a lake.It is not manslaughter if the victim or the victims family do not want to press charges. Accidents happen and when it is with a friend or family member it is quite common to not press charges.

Everyone at my office hunts. They hunt together. I promise you that if my boss accidentally shot someone non-fatally, there would be no charges pressed. Hell, even strangers dont usually press charges unless they need to sue due to cash reasons for medical bills. It is a risk that you assume when hunting unless you own the land and dont let others on it.

But, I live in Dallas and am surrounded by hunters. There are hunting accidents on the news a couple times every year. What would I know?

Hunting isnt illegal. Driving drunk and killing someone is.

[jn_powell]

Every state has different statutes.
I don't care what state you live in, no prosecutor on the planet is going to prosecute a grandfather for manslaughter in a case like this. In any case, it is unrelated because the man did not die, so lets drop it.

[Swoop187]

I don't care what state you live in, no prosecutor on the planet is going to prosecute a grandfather for manslaughter in a case like this. In any case, it is unrelated because the man did not die, so lets drop it.

I agree with you 100%

I think the Cheney thing was blown way out of proportion. You can blame the media on that though.

[Synch]

You are a fucking idiot, your rhetoric is useless and you apparently don't know what happened and you dont want to know what happened, your only interested in how the liberals look at it and you let them brain wash you into thinking its all some big cover up or something.

get a life.

well, the liberals always expect more from our vice president, so they treat him worse than the average citizen with more punishment.. :dunce: If it was a Democrat, they would be all defending him...

[Secret Squirrel]

Synch, Cheney brings a lot of the media pressure on himself. The man has more power than any VP in history, and is shady as the night is dark. I wish to God the Republicans had used his health problems as an excuse to replace him during the 2004 elections. I don't think for a minute he should be charged as a criminal in this, but I'm not going to shed a tear for the spotlight on him given his overall behavior the last 6 years.

[JooK]

Well, the guy that got shot even apologized for what they put Cheney through.

The Dems took this understanable, occuring mistake through the roof to make Cheney look like the devil.

[Liberator13]

Nocturnal has lost all credibility in this thread.

That is all we have to realize, and move on.

[shade]

Secret Squirrel listens to NPR.

[TFS]

Shade's best contribution to a serious discussion has nothing to do with the actual issue at hand, and is nothing more than a smear campaign intended to discredit people he disagrees with via mudslinging facts that he can't even prove.

See how that works? Knock it off.

[ElectricPeanut]

Cheney's accident is still some funny shit.

[TFS]

Cheney's accident is still some funny shit.
No doubt. He's famous and made a boo-boo.

But it's still important to keep it in perspective.

[ElectricPeanut]

You gotta admit though TFS, it's some funny shit. We need something like this so we can laugh at it.

[TFS]

You gotta admit though TFS, it's some funny shit. We need something like this so we can laugh at it.
No, I agree entirely. I'm the first one to laugh about shit like this. Dana Carvey's George HW Bush and Ross Perot imitations are my personal favorites.

I'm just saying when looking at it seriously, it needs perspective, which a lot of people choose to disregard anymore.

[bergshadow]

Hunting isnt illegal. Driving drunk and killing someone is. Driving isn't illegal. Hunting drunk and shooting someone is. In Texas.

Accepting favors from lobbyists for action in their interest is illegal also. An angle as yet unexplored in this incident.

An unnecessary overnight delay in delivering a statement to the police, especially one involving a direct refusal to be interviewed by police in very convenient circumstances (they have come to you, are at your door), while consulting in private with the witnesses, makes one a suspect. There is nothing far-fetched about that, it's common sense.

Any reasonable investigation would have involved immediate, short, factual interviews with all principals separately (including the hunting guide, who has yet to be questioned at all AFAIK), a breathalyzer or blood-alcohol test for the shooter, and if indicated (something inconsistent in the stories, blood-alcohol over .01 or whatever the Texas cutoff is) a submission of all findings to the DA. At a minimum: the kinds of things that are done routinely at a traffic accident involving serious injury.

That's a minimum, assuming it really was as described. If something odd came up, more would become appropriate. Not even that minimum was attempted.

Any competent PR team, advisor, secretary, etc, would have insisted on such action, if the local police were fuckups, pocketed, or hesitant, simply to forestall the appearance of guilt. Unless the guilt were real. Then delay would be critical, and coordination more important than appearance.

So it's guilt and/or incompetence, once again with these guys. Are they lying or are they stupid, we ask for the fiftieth time, in matters large and small.

And the question is not whether this minor (comparatively) incident is a big deal - the question is which straw will prove significant to the camel. These guys are not going to magically develop a desire or ability to govern well. It's going to be cupidity/stupidity 'til something gives.

[Synch]

Driving isn't illegal. Hunting drunk and shooting someone is. In Texas.



No evidence of that, he only admitted to one beer.







That's a minimum, assuming it really was as described. If something odd came up, more would become appropriate. Not even that minimum was attempted.





And the question is not whether this minor (comparatively) incident is a big deal - the question is which straw will prove significant to the camel. These guys are not going to magically develop a desire or ability to govern well. It's going to be cupidity/stupidity 'til something gives.
Just like the Democrats?

Accepting favors from lobbyists for action in their interest is illegal also. An angle as yet unexplored in this incident.

you're accusing cheney to be an hit man?

An unnecessary overnight delay in delivering a statement to the police, especially one involving a direct refusal to be interviewed by police in very convenient circumstances (they have come to you, are at your door), while consulting in private with the witnesses, makes one a suspect. There is nothing far-fetched about that, it's common sense.

You can assume anything you want, but using your worst presumptions as facts will not work, it is just another conspiracy theory.

Any reasonable investigation would have involved immediate, short, factual interviews with all principals separately (including the hunting guide, who has yet to be questioned at all AFAIK), a breathalyzer or blood-alcohol test for the shooter, and if indicated (something inconsistent in the stories, blood-alcohol over .01 or whatever the Texas cutoff is) a submission of all findings to the DA. At a minimum: the kinds of things that are done routinely at a traffic accident involving serious injury.

mistakes happen..

Any competent PR team, advisor, secretary, etc, would have insisted on such action, if the local police were fuckups, pocketed, or hesitant, simply to forestall the appearance of guilt. Unless the guilt were real. Then delay would be critical, and coordination more important than appearance.

they were fuckups and hesitant, who isn't cautious on interrogating the fucking vice president? If he becomes offensive to him, or makes Cheney angry, seeing how the liberal media has painted Cheney as an evil and corrupt man, the sheriff was probably scared and intimidated.

So it's guilt and/or incompetence, once again with these guys. Are they lying or are they stupid, we ask for the fiftieth time, in matters large and small.

No it was intimidation of Cheney having been portrayed as a corrupt and powerful man by our beloved media.

[shade]

See how that works? Knock it off.Wtf are you talking about? Did you miss my contributions earlier? I suggest you go back a page or two.

Yes, Secret Squirrel listens to NPR. He used exact verbage that I heard on NPR the other day regarding this story as well.

Yes, the secret is out. I do listen to NPR. For some reason our local conservative host has been replaced by some fascist from NYC named Mark Levin. I cant listen to that nazi, so instead I listen to NPR on my way home from work.

Haha... and what mudslinging did I do? I didnt realise pointing out what someone listens to was mudslinging. You must have a low opinion of NPR!

But it's still important to keep it in perspective.And the perspective is that this is not a crime unless the victim presses charges.

Driving isn't illegal. Hunting drunk and shooting someone is. In Texas.Come on. Enough with the A + B is the same as J + X.


Guys, here is the bottom line. Cheney did not commit a crime. Cheney fucked up when he shot the guy on accident. He then fucked up again by not reporting on it much faster.

Anything beyond this is just partisan bs.

[bergshadow]

No evidence of that, he only admitted to one beer. Well, that is the issue, no? The lack of evidence is not by chance. There should have been plenty. Cheney and helpful lobbyist Armstrong withheld it. Now were they concealing a crime, or were they simply overlooking the strong appearance of guilt so created? Were they lying, or were they stupid?

And the perspective is that this is not a crime unless the victim presses charges. For the last time: shooting someone while drunk is a crime in Texas. It doesn't matter whether the victim presses charges or not. It doesn't matter whether they were seriously injured or not. It doesn't matter whether it was an accident or not.

The actions of Cheney, and the rest of the party, were exactly what would have been necessary to conceal that crime. Or any of several others.

And several other crimes remain possibly relevant, including the influence of the lobbyist who earned some favor from Cheney by enabling the whole scene.

(btw: Just so Chewy knows we ain't all Texan: in Minnesota Cheney would have been charged. Discharge of a firearm (pulling the trigger on purpose) aimed at a visible person is not an "accident", but criminal negligence, in Minnesota)

[precession]

I live in a pretty popular hunting area. Nearly everyone goes hunting, or knows someone who does. Accidents [sometimes fatal] happen nearly every year. I can't remember anyone ever being charged with a crime for a hunting accident. So, in short, you don't know what you're talking about.


Accidents happen in hunting and it is generally accepted as part of the risk.

Also, other accidents might happen where WMD that really were there according to Cheney just might have been a coffee stain on his copy of the map of Iraq . . .. . .

[Secret Squirrel]

Actually shade I don't listen to NPR. Since I'm still stationed in Germany for a few more months, I'm reduced to AFN radio (god awful) or German radio, which I only understand about 1/3 of. Cheney has always just rubbed me the wrong way.

[shade]

For the last time: shooting someone while drunk is a crime in Texas.For the last time, 1 beer != drunk unless you weigh 60 lbs. Dont know when the last time you saw a picture of Cheney.... but I bet he can have 1 beer without having a drunk blood alcohol level.

Squirrel, you can listen online. Also, Rush Limbaugh is doing a deal where listeners can sponsor people in the military to give full access to listen online and everything else. Check his website if you are interested in that. It is geared towards people like you overseas.

[bergshadow]

For the last time, 1 beer != drunk And the simple blood alcohol level check verifying that claim was what?

The corroborating, independently obtained and compared accounts (taken as soon as possible at the scene by minimally competent police, like an ordinary traffic cop at an accident involving serious injury) verifying that belated and variable claim said what?

The verification of benign limited alcohol consumption on top of Cheney's heart meds, by statement of county coroner or responsible agent in Texas, was made when?

You say none of that happened? It was prevented by refusal of the perp to be questioned or investigated? Gee, what were they trying to hide, do you suppose? Or do these professionals, surrounded by professional aides and guides and locally familiar lobbyists, simply not understand the ordinary accountability of adult citizenship in such situations?

Were they lying, or were they stupid?

[Maverick]

Driving isn't illegal. Hunting drunk and shooting someone is. In Texas.
I was discussing this the other night with one of my friends (who is thought to be a covert CIA field agent) and he said it is pretty common knowledge that one beer does not equal drunk.

[Liberator13]

I was discussing this the other night with one of my friends (who is thought to be a covert CIA field agent) and he said it is pretty common knowledge that one beer does not equal drunk.

A beer can't get anyone drunk...
I still don't know why this thread is alive, I think berg is just having another hissy fit.

[whocares]

Send Cheney to Iraq, so you can totally justify the war. You can 'find' a WMD with Cheney being there...

[shade]

Ok bergshadow. Obviously because he is a republican he is guilty until proven innocent. You must be correct since none of the evidence to prove guilt exists. But conversely, nothing to prove innocence exists either. Therefore, he is guilty.

[HereLiesMatthew]

Cheney Not Charged

What a surprise...

[Kommercial]

There is no such thing as a hunting "accident", there is just negligance.

Like someone else said, since when you can deny an interview with the police, and not have to obide by the law?

[bergshadow]

I was discussing this the other night with one of my friends (who is thought to be a covert CIA field agent) and he said it is pretty common knowledge that one beer does not equal drunk. So?

It is also pretty common knowledge that someone who shoots a hunting partner must answer question from the police, and in particular must settle the ordinary questions about their level of impairment from alcohol and drugs. Stonewallings of normal investigation followed - days later - by belated and unverifiable assertions do not settle such questions.
Ok bergshadow. Obviously because he is a republican he is guilty until proven innocent. The psych term is "projection", for responses like that. I don't care much about party affiliation unless it's actually a factor. You must be correct since none of the evidence to prove guilt exists. But conversely, nothing to prove innocence exists either. Therefore, he is guilty. When one is normally obliged to provide evidence, deliberately refusing to provide evidence normally incurs suspicion. Evidence that is absent because someone refused to provide it is not the same as evidence unobtainable. Evidence not gathered because normal procedures were inexplicably not followed is not the same as evidence unobtainable. Reneging on the obligations of an adult citizen is not proof of anything except character flaw, but it does make one a suspect in whatever crimes would be concealed thereby.

We are not talking about proof. We are talking about evidence and accountability. Cheney has behaved badly, and as if guilty of something. That is no reason to assume his innocence, as so many seem so oddly eager to do.

[ElectricPeanut]

I still can't over this, it's so fucking hilarious.

[Maverick]

So?

It is also pretty common knowledge that someone who shoots a hunting partner must answer question from the police, and in particular must settle the ordinary questions about their level of impairment from alcohol and drugs. Stonewallings of normal investigation followed - days later - by belated and unverifiable assertions do not settle such questions.
When is everyone going to open their eyes, it is obvious that Dick was actually shooting at some old bat named Cindy when that idiot lawyer got in the way.

Now if you don’t mind I need to roll the 12 sided die to see if I killed 12 heavily armored trolls.

[pidgeball6]

I'd go hunting with Dick Cheney before I'd take a drive with Ted Kennedy any day.:boink: