Question for war protesters

[Sas]

I have a question, and don't mean to degrade of lash out at anyone, that thinks the war is the wrong thing to do...

If you read the papers, watch the news, or look online you'll see that iraqi civilions are riseing against the government and regime to help get Saddam out of the country and out of power. If the war is so bad and not the right thing to do, why would so many of Saddams own troops and people, try and fight against him like they do, or surrender at the sight of non-iraqi personel? Why would his own people go against him, if it's the wrong thing to do? How can a someone think that these people are happy living with what they have, hell Saddam kills his own people for taking down his pictures... How can that be a good place to live? So with all that said, why do you feel this war sould not be going on?

EDIT: Sorry about the spelling, for the people that are anal about those types of things

[Unregistered]

Saddam is hated too. that stupid motherfukker. war is wrong. saddam is wrong.

- i dun think inncocent ppl should die just because saddam is a stupid motherfukker with a missle up his ass.

[TheGrudge]

Our Media is lying to us?...Anything you see on Iraqi tv is all a bunch of crap becuase it is a government owned and controlled media. These people have lived under the fear of Saddam for over 20 years and you expect them to just come out in the open and go against him. In time all you war protesters will see that what we are doing is not only the right thing but the necassary thing to do. Im sure the same people protested the war in Afghanistan before it started. Alot of bad things came out of it...women have a place in their society, a democratic government was set up, people are eating, kids are going to school. War is not a good thing but until human kind evolves enough to get along it is needed in some cases....

[DrNaste]

Originally posted by Sas
If the war is so bad and not the right thing to do, why would so many of Saddams own troops and people, try and fight against him like they do, or surrender at the sight of non-iraqi personel? Why would his own people go against him, if it's the wrong thing to do?

Sas, no offense taken. To the best of my knowledge, and I've heard from two reputable sources now (NPR and the Guardian) that the same footage we've all been seeing of the Iraqi people rejoicing at the first sign of American troops and Iraqi/American efforts at ripping down posters of Saddam, are a little bit decieving. I've heard from a couple of places that the footage is of a Shi'ite faction in the South of Iraq that the US rolled on through on their trek up to Baghdad. The Shi'ites probably hate Saddam more than anyone (excpet maybe the Kurds), and are glad to have the US in Iraq in hopes that the newly appointed US-friendly government will grant the Shi'ites the independance they want.

Recently, in all of the mainstream news, I have been hearing more and more reports of ordinary civilizans (not Kurds or Shi'ites) taking up arms to defend Baghdad from the Americans. The Iraqi people want the Americans in Baghdad less than they want Saddam there, and are willing to prove it by defending their land by force.

Anyway, that's what I've heard... it makes a lot of sense to me.

[DrNaste]

Originally posted by TheGrudge
Im sure the same people protested the war in Afghanistan before it started. Alot of bad things came out of it...women have a place in their society, a democratic government was set up, people are eating, kids are going to school

You need to get your head outta your ass. Afghanistan is still a shitty place for women. All the stuff you're regurgitating are promises made by the US government before the war was mounted. Now that the war is completed, and the Afghani landscape looks like swiss cheese because of the massive amounts of bombs dropped, we are just assuming things are OK. The truth of the matter is that due to the very core of social structures existing in Afghanistan (and most Arab states), women are shat on every day and not given the respect they deserve. It had nothing to do with bombing the hell out of the Taliban, and installing a Democratic leader.

Read any newsource, and see what they have to say about afghanistan. You're sure as hell not going to find pictures of women taking off their Burkas and romping through green fileds under rainbows. You can't assume that everything our government said was going to happen actually did. In this case, it hasn't yet.

[Unregistered]

I am an Arab and hate the states and have all but I agree about treating women better. I'm starting to throw off the shackles of tradition and treat my girlfriend very well.

[shade]

Your media is lying to you. Soldiers and civilians are fighting the Americans. In Baghdad they parade through the streets and even old women have berettas saying they will attack marines if they come.

Hey riki, lets put a gun to your head and see if you march in support of saddam too knowing that wherever you are you are being watch by Saddam's secret police, the fedahi'im (spelling?).

Saddam has armed the population, and if they dont resist they will be shot. Look at Basra, they resisted, but once we started to win against Saddams troops and took out the local Baath party intel centers and agents, they are now free to revolt against saddam, and are doing so.

[Sas]

Originally posted by Rikimaru
Your media is lying to you. Soldiers and civilians are fighting the Americans. In Baghdad they parade through the streets and even old women have berettas saying they will attack marines if they come.

I've heard that a few places, but have yet to actually see what's really happening, but I do believe that the government *might* over exagerate to an extent, but not to the point that you have said. Is there anyplace you could point me to see pics/vids or even read about what's going on over there, with an unbiased report/ source or something? I have quite a few friends over there right now, and as you can imagine, I haven't gotten to talk to them in some time so I can only go by what I hear here in America... A few of us are even waiting right now to get called over, but since we haven't, I'd assume that the reports and things that I've heard have to be true, or at least damn close to it...

[Unregistered]

All right, now your dreaming. United States Marines are the deadliest force on earth, for every one marine they kill they'll lose a few hundred men. Face reality man, regardless of whether or not you like it, the U.S has the strongest military force in the world.

[Unregistered]

Being a member of the Military, in the USA, I know first hand that we are the best. We a whole lot of troops over there because we are all willing to die for our country, not because the "Repulican Pansies" are better at fighting. We undergo vigerous training all the time. We will prevail, and So-Damn Insane will be taken out of power. The anti-american rederic is just shameful. We fight wars to free people like the Iraqis, not to get oil, or better standings in the world. We are the best for a reason.

[Unregistered]

I'm in the AirForce...and yes, we are the most powerful in the world. But we would not be complete without the US Marines. They may not be "born" into war, but that doesn't mean jack. We will still get the job done. Marines, Navy, AirForce, Army and the CoastGaurd will be victorious. Wait and see.

[Unregistered]

riki riki riki, you dont know what your saying, the marines are the most deadliest out of the army, navy, air forces, etc. and to dr naste, it can be 1 of 2 reasons, or maybe both why civilians are ready to "guard" their city of Baghdad, maybe like shade said, they're forced to fight, or they'll get shot in the head, another reason, maybe they're actually the national gaurd in civilian clothes, its possible they've done it before, the Iraqi forces dont play by the rules, they play dirty, they station their tanks in hospitals, they put civilians in goverment buildings to stop the US from bombin the buildings or to make the US look like a bad guy if they bomb the building, and basically they're using their citizens as human shields....i got a really long post in the thread about the "fake iraqi call" im too lazy to put it up again over here



joker

[DrNaste]

there's also a third reason, joker, and one that you are neglecting to acknowledge. Maybe actual civilians are taking up arms against the US because they'd rather fight for their homes and sovereignty than be 'liberated' by the Americans (who, some would say, are the cause of much of tehir strife).

[HiggsB]

You probably got more truth from the Simpsons than you do from Iraqi and American news combined.

[HiggsB]

If you cant afford guided missiles then you do what you can.
There are no rules to war especially if you are being invaded illegaly.
There is only the art of war and if you would stop thinking so emotionally about the US being endowed with a quest from God you might see some of the Big Business crap involved here.

The Crusades were great they achieved so much....Bullshit.

And to all who bash the French, The U.S. is an awesome power why do we need the French to attack such a small country with us. Also yes we helped the French in the WW's but we would probably still be British if the French didnt show off their huge balls in our battle for independance. That by the way was a far greater act than to help jump Iraq.

Peace
The Higgs B

[Unregistered]

thats also another possibility, dr naste, but if you think of it, why would they want to fight against the US? and the explanation might be that they only hear bad stuff about the US in their televisions, Newspapers, and Radiostations, of course you'll hate something if you only hear the bad stuff they do, if you can even call it bad stuff. alot of stuff in what they say is totally bogus

and to Biggs, THERE ARE Rules of war, even tho you must kill the enemy's forces to survive, you can do it only in some ways, its not alright to intently kill enemy forces that cannot defend themselves, thats morally wrong, and whats the "art of war"? forcing your citizens to fight back or get executed? i see nothing "artful" about that...



joker

[Unregistered]

Question:

Who is the greater dictator!

A man who controlls his land and people with guns and war!

Or a man who wants to controll the world and all of his people with guns and war!

Should i kill my uncle who beats up his wife?

We killed more irak civilliants than Saddam did in a year! And now we let them starve to death!

I'm gone kill you if you disagree! (Saddam says it, Bush says it so why shouldn't i!)

[Unregistered]

Oh shutup this moron doesn't even know how to spell iraq. And Bush does not, and cannot "kill all who opposes him" do see policemen and military out massacring protesters in the streets, as stupid as those protesters are? I think not. Stick your foot in your mouth Riki, and the other guy, you are both brainwashed and don't know right from wrong

[Unregistered]

oh please, show me statistics that show that bush has killed more iraqi citizens than saddam himself, and another thing Bush isnt a dictator, nor does he want to control the world, he wants to eliminate forces that cause evil, ie saddam and bin laden



joker