Talking with iran, blah [Archive]

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LegendaryU2K

06-01-2006, 06:25 PM

OPP

06-01-2006, 06:37 PM

Probably a security risk. Bushie is not a popular individual in the ME.

bergshadow

06-01-2006, 07:30 PM

W is not competent to negotiate such matters.

And political leaders who weigh in on decisions never negotiate face to face - the process is too delicate, requires too much in the way of compromise and deniability, takes too much time, runs dangers of personal dislike or conversational glitches getting blown out of proportion, runs dangers of something new or surprising coming up with insufficient time on the table, etc. One always wants deniability, in the flow of things. They always send a rep.

csite

06-01-2006, 07:45 PM

http://news.yahoo.com/fc/world/iran

Its funny to me, the leader from iran was the one who started the program, but yet you dont see him in the room, and where is bush?

Why cant bush come to iran and sit down and talk with the guy in iran, face to face?

Getting someone to talk for you, is not solving the problem.

Thats like saying if i had a problem with someone and i choose to go the talking route, i send one of my neighbors to talk for me. What a waste of time.......

Its funny to me, the leader from iran was the one who started the program, but yet you dont see him in the room

Thats because ahmadinajad's father passed away 2 days ago and iran and eu3 are not talking anymore formally anyways because iran got pissed off for getting nothing for suspending their enrichment for 2 years so they resumed and the talks with the eu3 ended. :wave:

This is ultimately saying look you can have a nuke but you will be isolated from the west, iran has very little export trade with the pro american policy western countries in the first place, their main imports are from germany and france and main export is italy, it's not going to do that much hard by importing more from japan and south korea and other european countries in the non aligned movement who support iran!

Pakistan and india both got heavy sanctions after developing nukes, it's well worth while for iran to develop nukes too for their national security, unless america gives iran long term security guarantees there is no way iran will ever give up their nukes even for 300 F16's!

Iran has little to lose, they will never be fully sanctioned, so the west need to come up with amazing incentives and security guarantees, else this move of us talks with iran is nothing but propaganda, I would laugh if iran got into a fight with their American counterparts during the talks.

As much as america likes to brag about them having it all planned and people on their side both russia and china and the arab league are with iran on this, along with the NAM (non aligned movement!) as much as bush wants to continue his pathetic axis of evil plan, it's stalled and his successor will most likely lose the election (i hope anyways for the good of the world!)

Namflow509

06-01-2006, 08:04 PM

they will never be fully sanctioned
Not really true. (from what I've heard) America gets no oil from Iran at all, so they will hardly be impacted by putting an embargo on them.

it's well worth while for iran to develop nukes too for their national security
Quite the opposite actually. If Iran continues developing nukes they are only jeopordizing their national security further.

csite

06-01-2006, 08:14 PM

Not really true. (from what I've heard) America gets no oil from Iran at all, so they will hardly be impacted by putting an embargo on them.

that doesn't matter, if america even SAYS we want to sanction iran's oil, the prices will be $80+ per barrel, if they make that move it will be very very high then, china will never stand for it anyways, they already have a $110 billion oil contract signed, japan has a contract with iran to develop the world's single largest oilfield in iran, all these are way more important than israel's imediate national security! these countries are looking for their long term economic stability and natural resources no matter what pressure bush puts on them, they are unlikely to give it up.

You would be correct if iran has no oil and gas, but oil and gas are too valuable if a country has as much production, exports and reserves as iran.
Quite the opposite actually. If Iran continues developing nukes they are only jeopordizing their national security further.

Iran must be peeing themselves over possible military strikes, there is an abundance of targets in iraq and afghanistan for them to retaliate, even if they wish not to directly retaliate how about arming the insurgents with serious weapons :wave:

Namflow509

06-01-2006, 08:21 PM

that doesn't matter, if america even SAYS we want to sanction iran's oil, the prices will be $80+ per barrel, if they make that move it will be very very high then, china will never stand for it anyways, they already have a $110 billion oil contract signed, japan has a contract with iran to develop the world's single largest oilfield in iran, all these are way more important than israel's imediate national security! these countries are looking for their long term economic stability and natural resources no matter what pressure bush puts on them, they are unlikely to give it up.

You would be correct if iran has no oil and gas, but oil and gas are too valuable if a country has as much production, exports and reserves as iran.

:lol: I don't think America cares much for China's oil contract or any other external factors. Eventually if they can't sanction them ennough (for them to stop) I would predict that's when America will attack.

Iran must be peeing themselves over possible military strikes, there is an abundance of targets in iraq and afghanistan for them to retaliate, even if they wish not to directly retaliate how about arming the insurgents with serious weapons
What does that have to do with what I said?

csite

06-01-2006, 08:27 PM

:lol: I don't think America cares much for China's oil contract or any other external factors. Eventually if they can't sanction them ennough (for them to stop) I would predict that's when America will attack.

fat chance, unless they predict they will leave iraq and afghanistan in the next year i just don't see it happening.

in the next few months iran will start industrial enrichment, unless you are seriously implying at the worse times in iraq and afghanistan when an average of 30-50 die in iraq per day and about several in afghanistan america will attack iran with an over stretched armed forces, it would be THEIR worse military disaster of the 21st centaury if they do i am sure.

What does that have to do with what I said?

You implied iran will be attacked if they don't give up their nuclear programme

Quite the opposite actually. If Iran continues developing nukes they are only jeopordizing their national security further.

:wave:

Anyways, even if iran formally gives up enrichment, it's not all bad, they can take the incentives, they may well do that, they can then enrich uranium in secret (which is what israel did!) :lol:

Namflow509

06-01-2006, 09:03 PM

fat chance, unless they predict they will leave iraq and afghanistan in the next year i just don't see it happening.
:err: Please, I don't want to get into this shit discussion right now. I have said in the past that they can still attack them.

You implied iran will be attacked if they don't give up their nuclear programme

I was trying to imply that they are only making it worse for themselves by continuing enrichment. By not going through with this at all they are practically agreeing not to get attacked.

Anyways, even if iran formally gives up enrichment, it's not all bad
Exactly, they will get rewarded for doing so. Maybe even get themselves out of the mess they are in right now (sanctions, etc.)?

can then enrich uranium in secret (which is what israel did!)
Yes, well Israel never had an Islamic revolution. Israel never took over an American embassy either...

Israel managed to stay on America's good side and they got right off our asses.

pers

06-01-2006, 10:38 PM

Yes, well Israel never had an Islamic revolution. Israel never took over an American embassy either...

Israel managed to stay on America's good side and they got right off our asses.
yeah, israel had a crazy zionist revolution, they sunk an american ship and killed americans.

How israel manages to stay on the good side is between the corrupt american officials and israel who would betray their own soldiers blood to stay in relation with israel, you can claim israel has benefits for america now, but then all they were was a pain, they caused the oil embargo on america which also cost them darely.

you want to compare zionism (those crazy rightwing nutcases who actually think israel is their right :lol:) with islamic fundamentalism go ahead, iran's revolution killed iranians, israeli zionism killed other races and destroyed their houses.

Garihm

06-01-2006, 11:09 PM

pers

06-01-2006, 11:13 PM

In a thread referring what the US should do if Iran nukes us.

LOL, you're something else man. Nonetheless, its still someone talking, its better than no one.

Anyways Rice was there, she most likely would have neogiated better than Bush.

i doubt iran will directly negotiate with rice or any us official, they will probably sit on the table but talk to the Europeans! if america was serious they would have had a 1 to 1 talk with iran like they did with north korea! this is just a political stunt, bush is doing bad in the polls, anything to make oil prices lower and poll ratings higher is worth a shot.

Garihm

06-01-2006, 11:22 PM

i doubt iran will directly negotiate with rice or any us official, they will probably sit on the table but talk to the Europeans! if america was serious they would have had a 1 to 1 talk with iran like they did with north korea! this is just a political stunt, bush is doing bad in the polls, anything to make oil prices lower and poll ratings higher is worth a shot.

How can America have a serious 1 to 1 talk with Iran if you doubt Iran will directly negotiate with rice or any US official?

skittles15

06-02-2006, 02:34 AM

Probably a security risk. Bushie is not a popular individual in the ME.

Funny you should say that, my good friend from Iran (born and raised until he was 16 there) said 95% of people in Iran would see it as a blessing to invade. Same with Iraq and so on. His father (who lived there for 40 some years) said the same thing. People get killed over absolutely nothing there (from what he says). Women are beat for showing an ankle, the law enforcement and politicians are all corupt (need to bribe everyone) and killing has become socially acceptable. His father told me a story of a cop that would visit his house about every 2 weeks or so and say "give me money or I'm taking you to jail". Finally got sick of it and immigrated to the US and is currently setting up a factory in Iraq. He's spent close to 20,000 in bribes to get the zoning permits and all that good stuff, he said there is no other way. Its fascist.

pers

06-02-2006, 01:13 PM

Funny you should say that, my good friend from Iran (born and raised until he was 16 there) said 95% of people in Iran would see it as a blessing to invade. Same with Iraq and so on. His father (who lived there for 40 some years) said the same thing. People get killed over absolutely nothing there (from what he says). Women are beat for showing an ankle, the law enforcement and politicians are all corupt (need to bribe everyone) and killing has become socially acceptable. His father told me a story of a cop that would visit his house about every 2 weeks or so and say "give me money or I'm taking you to jail". Finally got sick of it and immigrated to the US and is currently setting up a factory in Iraq. He's spent close to 20,000 in bribes to get the zoning permits and all that good stuff, he said there is no other way. Its fascist.

that's the biggest nonsense i heard in my life, first of all your friend is what true iranians like to call monarchists, people who flourished in wealth during the shah of iran's time through corruption and poverty of 80% + of the rest of iranians.

There is no way 95% of iranians want to be invaded, let me explain to you why your friend talks nonsense as do many other iranian monarchists who are so out of touch. Iran shows what you don't see in your media from iraq and afghanistan, people of iran already have a bad perception of the american regime from the shah's time to the iran iraq war, now with the iraq war and all the horrors they see on their tv, there is no way anyone wishes for an invasion of iran.

Iran is nothing like iraq, your friend is just scaring the shit out of you for no reason, women show ankles in iran, i visit iran ever year and i am going back in 3 weeks time! i can't walk on a street and not see a woman with tight jeans showing ankles, hair etc. boy friends and girl friends, it's become norm to have boy friends and girl friends in iran now! Yes, iran's human rights record is not too good, i would be the first to say that but the rest are lies, police in iran are not too corrupt, they don't take payment from you, :lol: unless you live in some rural village who live in the stone age in iran no police will come to your house demanding money for anything, police maybe incompetent in certain circumstances but corruption in iranian police force is limited, not as low as in countries like the uk, but much lower than immediate neighbouring countries and generally in the middle east.

Never ever believe a political migrants word as a final word on a country, iranian americans are known to make alot of nonesense up about iran and it's regime, most of it are lies, you have to understand these guys will do anything to get rid of the iranian regime, anything! You can scare the shit out of anyone who hasn't visited another country very easily, once you visit it you will see it's nothing like what they described at all! I can make an iranian who loves the usa (but has never been out of iran) shit scared of the usa just by telling them some bs, out of context facts and videos! it's not too difficult. A picture, a video, someone's word doesn't describe a country, iran is so much more than that political bs some iranians lie about.