Pat Tillman viewed as an "idiot" in his mind

[wils0646]

Has anyone heard about this article wrote by Rene Gonzalez at the the University of Massachusetts? He is a grad student that feels that Pat Tillman is an "idiot" for dying for the war in Afghanistan. Just read the article...it simply pisses me off that someone even thinks this. I think people are entitled to their opinion, but saying someone deserved to die is horrible. How does someone's mind get so warped with these kind of views?

http://media.dailycollegian.com/pages/tillman_lobandwidth.html

The President of Umass called his statements: A "disgusting, arrogant and intellectually immature attack on a human being who died in service to his country."

[socrepLT]

How does someone's mind get so warped with these kind of views?
It said hes from Puerto Rico right? The US doesn't have a very good historical standing with South America. A lotta people down there don't really likle us.

[hodog78]

I agree. This is very sick. I understand rights of free speech, and defend it, but there's nothing worse than tramping on the grave of a man who died serving his country, no matter who he is. Some of us joined the military to provide a better life for ourselves, taking advantage of the many things the U.S. Military has to offer (school, training, etc). Pat Tillman needed none of those reasons. He was already financially set for life, and had a promising career still ahead of him. He joined because he felt it was his calling. And for some grad student who wouldn't know anything about that to say these things, only one week after his death, is disgusting, and it disgraces the memory of the other hundreds of good soldiers that have died in the last year as well.

I guess some people just can't stand to admit that there still are some heroes out there.

[Bergs]

That is absolutely dispicable.

[droogsteve]

He's a grad student, big fucking surprise. Just another professional student spewing his clueless bullshit far removed from the real world. The concepts of bravery, duty and honor are as foreign to him as calculus would be to a chimp. He simply cannot understand them, therefore he attacks them. I take no offense because the opinions of such a person are meaningless to me.

[JuliaAguilar]

It said hes from Puerto Rico right? The US doesn't have a very good historical standing with South America. A lotta people down there don't really likle us.

Puerto Rico isn't part of South America, it's actually part of the US! Where are you getting your information from? Okay, so PR isn't a state, but they are still technically part of the United States.

And honestly, I never heard anything about South America not liking us, but I guess that's probably because when we think of areas of the world that do not like us, it's usually the Mid-East, or French people :)

And as far as Tillman goes, I give him my utmost respect. I don't think I could have given up that much money to join the military, especially now that I'm in the Army, but that's just me. To each his own, I guess. But those who are ignorant will always voice their opinions, and that's all this student is doing. Let him wallow in his stupidity. He'll learn someday that good people still exist and that money is not the key to happiness and a full life.

[born2lose]

Wow, that was disturbing. Seems like ms. Gonzalez is a nothing who is jealous that Pat Tillman had everything and will now forever be known as a hero and she's just a bitter loser who will be known for her twisted view. Would she give her life to be able to publish articles like this? i think not. Shes got a serious bug up her butt and the only person she is concerned with is herself.
I think everyone who joins the armed forces is a hero, famous or unfamous, and the people who die in combat are just as much a hero as the people who survive, some are just much luckier than others.

[Sketcher]

Anyone who leaves a 3 million dollar contract behind to serve his country is a patriot, a hero, and definately NOT an idiot. Protecting his country was obviously more important to him than money and I have a great amount of respect for him for that.

[B307]

I saw this prick website before. if i see it again, i'll post it here for you to see. meanwhile, the newpaper that print this garbage still defended him.

http://www.dailycollegian.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2004/04/29/4090744e398cd?in_archive=1
:)

[Karly]

First- Puerto Rico is a commonwealth & not a state & it's an island in the carribean. His ethniciy should have nothing to do with this. Why was that even brought up? He is an idiot yes & his remarks are as stupid as they get, but newsflash ppl- he has the right to say whatever the hell he damn well pleases. Even if we all dont agree with it- I know I dont.

[Bergs]

Wow, great quote in one of the responses posted by Jim Hunnewell, US Navy (Retired).

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself"
John Stewart Mill

The defense the Daily Collegian offers, that they are merely defending Gonzalez's First Amendment right to free speech is such a weak and ludicrous argument. That article wasnt to further any debate whatsoever. What debate did they have in mind? "Pat Tillman was an idiot" "No he wasnt"? Give me a break. There is no way they would ever run an article that bashed blacks or women or immigrants or gays. It just wouldnt happen. Whenever papers hide behind this BS free speech excuse they are merely demonstrating their lack of understanding or appreciation for what men like Pat Tillman have done for them.

[Viceroy]

Whenever papers hide behind this BS free speech excuse they are merely demonstrating their lack of understanding or appreciation for what men like Pat Tillman have done for them.

So you're happy for freedom of the press to exist, just so long as it means articles are patriotic? That article may well be ill-informed poison, but you can't say there ought to be limits on the freedom of the press because of it.

[Stanky105]

So you're happy for freedom of the press to exist, just so long as it means articles are patriotic? That article may well be ill-informed poison, but you can't say there ought to be limits on the freedom of the press because of it.

Yeah, as stupid as the author may seem, he has the right to write it, just as we have the right to make fun of him for doing so.

[fubar]

So you're happy for freedom of the press to exist, just so long as it means articles are patriotic? That article may well be ill-informed poison, but you can't say there ought to be limits on the freedom of the press because of it.

I agree, that guy's obviously an idiot, he's what we would call on these boards an attention whore. He knew that was going to cause backlash, but he wanted to be different and take the radical, liberal view. He's such a dumbass, and I seriously doubt that anyone shares that view with him. But I don't blame the paper, they weren't agreeing w/ him, they were just publishing an opinion of some self righteous prick. They also published articles in praise of pat tillman; they were just offering someone with an opposing view the right to speak.

[Bergs]

Of course he has the right to write it, that doesnt mean the paper has to run it!!! Its substance lacking garbage with no journalistic merit.

So you're happy for freedom of the press to exist, just so long as it means articles are patriotic? That article may well be ill-informed poison, but you can't say there ought to be limits on the freedom of the press because of it.

Youre a fucking moron. When did I say that? I didnt! Free speech is vital and I dont care if an editorial page carries a leftist piece but there is absolutely no point to that article. They say that they intended to stir debate, WHAT DEBATE??? Whether or not Pat Tillman is an idiot? How ridiculous is that? Why is a "newspaper" publishing an editorial that calls someone an "idiot" to begin with? That is unprofessional, even for a college paper, even for a high school paper, and it is useless to any debate.

[Stanky105]

WHAT DEBATE??? Whether or not Pat Tillman is an idiot? How ridiculous is that? Why is a "newspaper" publishing an editorial that calls someone an "idiot" to begin with? That is unprofessional, even for a college paper, even for a high school paper, and it is useless to any debate.

That may be true, but the article sure got our attention didn't it?

[Viceroy]

Youre a fucking moron. When did I say that? I didnt! Free speech is vital and I dont care if an editorial page carries a leftist piece but there is absolutely no point to that article. They say that they intended to stir debate, WHAT DEBATE??? Whether or not Pat Tillman is an idiot? How ridiculous is that? Why is a "newspaper" publishing an editorial that calls someone an "idiot" to begin with? That is unprofessional, even for a college paper, even for a high school paper, and it is useless to any debate.

He uses the death of a great man like Pat Tillman to illustrate the pointlessness of men dying in Afganistan and Iraq. He argues that such deaths are unnecessary. That's the debate he's stirring. Learn to read.

[fubar]

He uses the death of a great man like Pat Tillman to illustrate the pointlessness of men dying in Afganistan and Iraq. He argues that such deaths are unnecessary. That's the debate he's stirring. Learn to read.

He may have taken it a little too far, but he did have a point behind all the shit about tillman. But he could have made that point w/out calling tillman an idiot and saying that he got what was coming to him.

[Sketcher]

He uses the death of a great man like Pat Tillman to illustrate the pointlessness of men dying in Afganistan and Iraq. He argues that such deaths are unnecessary. That's the debate he's stirring. Learn to read.

Could be. I thought the debate they were trying to stir up was whether or not he should be considered a hero.

I guess there are many possibilities depending on how you look at it.

[Bergs]

He uses the death of a great man like Pat Tillman

I didnt read? He calls him an idiot! He scoffs at him as a wannabe Rambo! He says " He was acting out his macho, patriotic crap and I guess someone with a bigger gun did him in." Another show of complete unprofessionalism, "patriotic crap." He doesnt consider Tillman a great man, he despises him and thats what the article was about, it has absolutely nothing to do with the legitimacy of the war which by the way I see you have changed your mind yet again. Afghanistan is back to being pointless. :rolleyes:

He argues that such deaths are unnecessary.

His only argument is that of bashing the life and character of Pat Tillman with complete unprofessionalism as demonstrated by his choice of words. There is no debate.

Learn to read.

Thats funny considering the selective reading that you practice, only reading what you wnat to hear. Go kill yourself.

[Viceroy]

I didnt read? He calls him an idiot! He scoffs at him as a wannabe Rambo! He says " He was acting out his macho, patriotic crap and I guess someone with a bigger gun did him in." Another show of complete unprofessionalism, "patriotic crap." He doesnt consider Tillman a great man, he despises him and thats what the article was about, it has absolutely nothing to do with the legitimacy of the war which by the way I see you have changed your mind yet again. Afghanistan is back to being pointless. :rolleyes:

For fucks sake man, wake up! I was the one refering to him as a great man. I know the writer considers him an idiot, and that part I think is unnecessary. I was talking about what he argued you dumb fuck. I was NOT talking about myself.


His only argument is that of bashing the life and character of Pat Tillman with complete unprofessionalism as demonstrated by his choice of words. There is no debate.

Horse shit. You're just reacting in anger at the writer calling him an idiot. You don't realise that he goes on to say the reason deaths like his were and are pointless.

Thats funny considering the selective reading that you practice, only reading what you wnat to hear. Go kill yourself.

It wasn't selective reading you idiot. It was getting to the core of the article.

[fubar]

"Tillman, in the absurd belief that he was defending or serving his all-powerful country from a seventh-rate, Third World nation devastated by the previous conflicts it had endured, decided to give up a comfortable life to place himself in a combat situation that cost him his life."

"Al-Qaeda won't be defeated in Afghanistan, even if we did kill all their operatives there. Only through careful and logical changing of the underlying conditions that allow for the ideology to foster will Al-Qaeda be defeated. Ask the Israelis if 50 years of blunt force have eradicated the Palestinian resistance. For that reason, Tillman's service, along with that of thousands of American soldiers, has been wrongly utilized. He did die in vain, because in the years to come, we will realize the irrationality of the War on Terror and the American reaction to Sept. 11. The sad part is that we won't realize it before we send more people like Pat Tillman over to their deaths."

I see Pat Tillman as a hero, this guy doesn't think he is one b/c he doesn't believe in the war against Afghanistan and Iraq. He makes his point in this concluding paragraph, unfortunately his point about the wars isn't heard b/c he used it to try to show that Tillman was an idiot.

[wils0646]

So you're happy for freedom of the press to exist, just so long as it means articles are patriotic? That article may well be ill-informed poison, but you can't say there ought to be limits on the freedom of the press because of it.

No, but there should be discretion for this type of shit. Maybe not the internet, where anything can be published. But do you think this paper would show some anti-semetic, anti-black viewpoint? No, they wouldn't. It's unprofessional and they have to show discretion. Bergs is right, there was really no debate.

[Viceroy]

It's unprofessional and they have to show discretion. Bergs is right, there was really no debate.

Actually, there was a point to the article, as I've already stated. Unfortunately with all the anti-Pat Tillman crap the point of the article is lost on some people.

[Stanky105]

Lets put it this way, regardless if you agree with the article, or even agree wether it is a debate or not, the paper DID get attention for it, and this is what papers go for. They got to push the limit without going over so far as to get shut down, so to say.

I do not agree with the article, and would even say yes, it was unprofessional, but I can see why the paper published it.

[Bergs]

Actually, there was a point to the article, as I've already stated. Unfortunately with all the anti-Pat Tillman crap the point of the article is lost on some people.

The point of the article is that Pat Tillman had it coming and that he was an idiot. Perhaps they dont teach English in England? If you write an article and the bulk of the article including the title and topic sentence is about Pat Tillman being and idiot, a wannabe Rambo, and having it coming to him the article is about what an idiot Pat Tillman is. Regardless of the addition of two random paragraphs denouncing the war the article was not about Afghanistan, it was about Pat Tillman being a douchebag and it was both wrong and unprofessional.

[wils0646]

Actually, there was a point to the article, as I've already stated. Unfortunately with all the anti-Pat Tillman crap the point of the article is lost on some people.

Yes, but a lot of the article just was directed at him personally, which is horrible. We didn't get lost, we were tired of the constant personal attacks against him.

[Bergs]

if I wrote an article saying liberals are idiots and left wing liberal crap is turning America into a terrible country would that consist of enough journalistic merit to be published? Fuck no.

The paper published an obscene article written by somebody that doesnt belong in grad school as demonstrated by his inability to write without resorting to personal insults. The editors should be replaced with somebody who actually respects journalistic merit.

[Sketcher]

I saw on the news this morning where they were talking about what exactly happened the day he was killed. I was on my way to class so I didn't see the whole thing but they said that Tillman's group was ambushed and that his group had no chance of getting away. They said that Tillman did something (not sure what, I was in a hurry) that had relsulted in him sacraficing himself so that the others had a chance of getting away. To me, that's what makes him a hero.

[Viceroy]

Originally I stated that the article was ill-informed poison that was directed at Pat Tillman. This made the article somewhat (or rather, massively) unbalanced. However, the point of his death being in vain should not be ignored. Clearly he meant people to take notice, otherwise he wouldn't have concluded with it.

[Bergs]

Then thats what he should have wrote about! The overwhelming bulk of the article was about Pat Tillman being an idiot, nothing more. It should never have been published by any paper with the slightest bit of journalistic integrity.

[B307]

He uses the death of a great man like Pat Tillman to illustrate the pointlessness of men dying in Afganistan and Iraq. He argues that such deaths are unnecessary. That's the debate he's stirring. Learn to read.

i have to disagree with you that gonzalez use CPL. Tillman to illustrate the pointlessness of men dying. Gonzalez directly and personally attacked Tillman. This guy calling Tillma a "pendejo" or idiot, rambo just by looking at Tillman's picture on TV. When the last time you judge a man by looking at a picture. I don't even judge a man if I know everything about him. The article was very immature, and should not be publish at all. If gonzalez wrote a article about how we should involved in Iraq or Afgan, I would not have any problem with it. he just has different view than I am, but personally attack a individual, well i hope gonzalez would get beat up.
:mad:

[wils0646]

I saw on the news this morning where they were talking about what exactly happened the day he was killed. I was on my way to class so I didn't see the whole thing but they said that Tillman's group was ambushed and that his group had no chance of getting away. They said that Tillman did something (not sure what, I was in a hurry) that had relsulted in him sacraficing himself so that the others had a chance of getting away. To me, that's what makes him a hero.

That's true, I heard about that too. I was watching ESPN and they showed part of the memorial service and a soldier was talking about that. You're right, that in its own, sacrificing your life for others, makes him a hero. Even if you disagree with the war policy.

[Bergs]

Anybody got a link to that? I'd like to read it.

[Sketcher]

I just found an article on it.

This is why he is a hero (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1793195)

[fubar]

Regardless of whether you disagree w/ the reasons for going to war, there were Americans dieing over there and Pat Tillman decided to help. Even though there was no need to defend country, there were Americans who were dieing and that's the reason Pat Tillman's sacrifice wasn't in vain.

[Viceroy]

Regardless of whether you disagree w/ the reasons for going to war, there were Americans dieing over there and Pat Tillman decided to help. Even though there was no need to defend country, there were Americans who were dieing and that's the reason Pat Tillman's sacrifice wasn't in vain.

...........so what you're suggesting is that he simply took the place of dead soldiers who were defending America when there was no need?

[Sketcher]

I just wanted to add, I don't blame the soldiers, I blame the president and his administration.

For what, going after the people who attacked us?

[fubar]

...........so what you're suggesting is that he simply took the place of dead soldiers who were defending America when there was no need?

I'm saying that regardless of the fact that the war was pointless, there were still soldiers over there, whether they wanted to be or not. And by helping them survive, if you read the article, his death was not in vain.

I just wanted to add, I don't blame the soldiers, I blame the president and his administration.

Another edit: I forgot that Tillman died in Afghanistan, and I don't think it was pointless to go there, but if you do his death still wasn't in vain.

[Bergs]

This is why everybody thinks you are a little shit.

he simply took the place of dead soldiers who were defending America when there was no need?

I guess 9/11 didnt warrant a response? Go kill yourself, Im serious.

[Viceroy]

This is why everybody thinks you are a little shit.

I guess 9/11 didnt warrant a response? Go kill yourself, Im serious.

It would appear you're incapable of reading a message and taking it on other other level besides literal. You see a message by me and think it must reflect what I think. Nevermind that I might be talking about someone else's opinion.

Bleedin tosspot you are.

[Bergs]

You said yourself that Afghanistan is pointless, but then it wasnt, then it was again, what is your current moment by moment stance?

[Viceroy]

You said yourself that Afghanistan is pointless, but then it wasnt, then it was again, what is your current moment by moment stance?

:rolleyes:

Bloody hell.....

I said Afganistan was pointless in the context of what another writer had supposed. Maybe from now on I should put a little note at the bottom saying:

Bergs, this message is not meant to be taken as my opinion, or the opinion of anyone I represent.

[Sketcher]

Bergs, to be fair, he was asking if this is what fubar meant by what he posted. Fubar is the one who said the Afganistan war was pointless.

...........so what you're suggesting is that he simply took the place of dead soldiers who were defending America when there was no need?

[fubar]

Bergs, to be fair, he was asking if this is what fubar meant by what he posted. Fubar is the one who said the Afganistan war was pointless.

yea, when I wrote that though, I thought that Tillman had served in Iraq. I made an edit to clarify that I don't think the war in Afghanistan is pointless.

[Bergs]

HAHA, watch how it will take me two minutes to prove your backtracking ass wrong.

Do you remember this?
Died to protect freedom by arse. He died because he was sent to Afganistan by Bush, not for any noble cause. Or this? Wake up and see the mess your country has caused. 9/11 was a brutal, murderous attack. But everything America did afterwards was revenge. Plain and simple. Then you changed your mind. In my opinion, the immediate aftermath was a fantastic chance to pursue a prudent policy on terrorism. You had the worlds support and sympathy. What more could you want? Taking out the Taliban was the first good step. Afganistan was necessary to try to capture bin Laden and eliminate a significant base of terrorism. Then you change again. However, if you're gonna criticise our heavy handed tactics, I urge you to look at Afganistan and Iraq. Remember what droog said? In one day it went from necessary to eliminate terrorism to heavy handed carpet bombing.

And thats all in one thread.

And grow the fuck up, posted by dumbass, what are you 2?

[Bergs]

I am being fair Sketch but Viceroy changes positions more often than Jenna Jameson.

[JuliaAguilar]

Yeah, as stupid as the author may seem, he has the right to write it, just as we have the right to make fun of him for doing so.

That made me laugh, that was absolutely great.