Bush to talk on Arab TV today

[DeeDee]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/05/05/bush.abuse/index.html

What does everyone think of this and... While I appreciate that we are at least going to acknowledge what has happened.. is it really even going to make a difference in the mindset of the Middle Eastern nations?

[Viceroy]

No it's not gonna make much of a difference, because half the messages will be broadcast on an American funded network which few Arabs see anyway.

[FloggingMolly]

I dont think it really going to help that much but it is a must do. If we dont we just give all the american hating people more ammo.

[Bergs]

It is being broadcast on Al-Arabiya too.

[Nocturnal]

It's a good thing that he is trying. Of course half of Americans can't stand to hear him speak, I'd hate to see what the Arabs think of him.

I think this prisoner abuse thing has really done major damage to our middle east image. Then again they do understand torture, maybe they won't view it as harshly as our public?

oh yeah, whats up guys, it's been a while

[ramittinbawdeep]

god knows how they will translate him, never seen a president who is so awkward when it comes to speeches and interviews etc, maybe we could send tony blair over there to coach him, with a bit of luck maybe you will keep him there.. :)

[Nocturnal]

god knows how they will translate him, never seen a president who is so awkward when it comes to speeches and interviews etc, maybe we could send tony blair over there to coach him, with a bit of luck maybe you will keep him there.. :)


wanna trade? :p

[BigMattTheHobo]

No apologies in this interview..... :rolleyes:

[Bugfatty]

No apologies in this interview..... :rolleyes:

What apologies do the Arabs deserve?

[Nocturnal]

What apologies do the Arabs deserve?

our policies that from time to time have encouraged violence in the middle east for our own ends, but in this case I believe the apologies would be our failure to follow humanitarian guidelines in our Iraqi prisons.

[BigMattTheHobo]

What apologies do the Arabs deserve?

How about apologies to the Iraqis or at least the families of the tortured prisoners for all the shit that has gone down?


Quote:

a. (U) Breaking chemical lights and pouring the phosphoric liquid on detainees;

b. (U) Threatening detainees with a charged 9mm pistol;

c. (U) Pouring cold water on naked detainees;

d. (U) Beating detainees with a broom handle and a chair;

e. (U) Threatening male detainees with rape;

f. (U) Allowing a military police guard to stitch the wound of a detainee who was injured after being slammed against the wall in his cell;

g. (U) Sodomizing a detainee with a chemical light and perhaps a broom stick.

h. (U) Using military working dogs to frighten and intimidate detainees with threats of attack, and in one instance actually biting a detainee.

from US Army Report (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4894001/). I just skimmed through and found this, I assume there is more talk of abuse in the report.

[Bugfatty]

If thats the reasoning then where is the apolgies from arab leaders for 911 or the mistreatment of of our POWs?

[BigMattTheHobo]

If thats the reasoning then where is the apolgies from arab leaders for 911 or the mistreatment of of our POWs?


I don't know, ask them.

Are you saying we shouldn't apologize for these atrocities? Just because they do shitty stuff doesn't mean we should, or that we shouldn't apologize for mistakes.

More from report:

6. (S) I find that the intentional abuse of detainees by military police personnel included the following acts:

a. (S) Punching, slapping, and kicking detainees; jumping on their naked feet;

b. (S) Videotaping and photographing naked male and female detainees;

c. (S) Forcibly arranging detainees in various sexually explicit positions for photographing;

d. (S) Forcing detainees to remove their clothing and keeping them naked for several days at a time;

e. (S) Forcing naked male detainees to wear women’s underwear;

f. (S) Forcing groups of male detainees to masturbate themselves while being photographed and videotaped;

g. (S) Arranging naked male detainees in a pile and then jumping on them;

h. (S) Positioning a naked detainee on a MRE Box, with a sandbag on his head, and attaching wires to his fingers, toes, and penis to simulate electric torture;

i. (S) Writing “I am a Rapest” (sic) on the leg of a detainee alleged to have forcibly raped a 15-year old fellow detainee, and then photographing him naked;

j. (S) Placing a dog chain or strap around a naked detainee’s neck and having a female Soldier pose for a picture;

k. (S) A male MP guard having sex with a female detainee;

l. (S) Using military working dogs (without muzzles) to intimidate and frighten detainees, and in at least one case biting and severely injuring a detainee;

m. (S) Taking photographs of dead Iraqi detainees.

[Bugfatty]

Apologies to the families and victims is in order. But to all Arabs? Whos governments do the same thing and worse every day? Give me a break.

[BigMattTheHobo]

Apologies to the families and victims is in order. But to all Arabs? Whos governments do the same thing and worse every day? Give me a break.

We shouldn't apologize to all Arabs, but to Iraqis and at the least the families of the victims.

I don't understand your reasoning: just because people get away with worse, that makes it ok for us :rolleyes:

O.J. got away with murder (or at least most of us can agree he did), should I go out and commit double murder and not be punished?

[Bugfatty]

I don't understand your reasoning: just because people get away with worse, that makes it ok for us

Don't even try that fucking shit with me. Thats not what I said and you know it.

[Bergs]

It doesnt matter whether or not Bush went on and it doesnt matter what he said. Those fucking morons have done irreparable damage to both our image and our effort.

[Karly]

I find it great how he took time away from the ranch. How big of him.

[Bergs]

Mami will you stop it. :rolleyes:

[Karly]

Mami will you stop it. :rolleyes:


I can't I shan't & I won't dagnab you!



You know we cool. :D

[Bergs]

Well I'm cool. I cant really speak for you though. :p

[Karly]

Well I'm cool. I cant really speak for you though. :p


I didnt ask you to- Biatch!

















I just keeeeding!!!!!!! ;)

[Nocturnal]

It doesnt matter whether or not Bush went on and it doesnt matter what he said. Those fucking morons have done irreparable damage to both our image and our effort.

Yup, the lawyers for one of the guys was on Fox news and he claims the guy was ordered to do these things. So I wouldn't be suprised if this goes higher up



I find it great how he took time away from the ranch. How big of him.

interesting tidbit that relates, Reagan spent more time away from the office than any other president so far (pretty sure he is gonna beat out GW) Good ol Ronny boy spent a year on vacation during his terms, not including trips to camp david.

[socrepLT]

As an interesting (and irrelevant) addition, I read a few weeks ago that Bush has spent about 40% of his presidency on vacation. (or 300+ days I think)

[Nocturnal]

maybe he will beat ol Ronny boy yet, he is modeled after the guy

[Bergs]

Yup, the lawyers for one of the guys was on Fox news and he claims the guy was ordered to do these things. So I wouldn't be suprised if this goes higher up.

I think thats probably just a cop out. I doubt anything higher than an immediate superior would tell them to do that. Its just fucking idiocy.

BTW, I heard somewhere that "vacation" simply means days not spent at the White House.

[Viceroy]

I heard on the news last night that there's even talk of Rumsfeld getting his ass kicked. The report on the torture was filed back in January and he appeared to do nothing up until last week when it was made public.

I hope he does get the boot. He's a slimey git.

[DeeDee]

I acutally heard this as well along with the fact that Rumsfield did not even tell Bush. Apparently from CNN accounts ( which is pretty liberal) Bush did not even know about the abuse until he learned from news sources. I think that Rumsfield might be looking for a new job.

[Nocturnal]

I think thats probably just a cop out. I doubt anything higher than an immediate superior would tell them to do that. Its just fucking idiocy.



I hope so, but we are getting pretty desperate in this conflict. I prey it was just some closet sadists and that they will be charged correctly.



I acutally heard this as well along with the fact that Rumsfield did not even tell Bush. Apparently from CNN accounts ( which is pretty liberal) Bush did not even know about the abuse until he learned from news sources. I think that Rumsfield might be looking for a new job.

We'll see, if Bush fired most of his staff my feelings towards him would probably go from disgust to mild dislike.

[shade]

Good ol Ronny boy spent a year on vacation during his terms, not including trips to camp david. As an interesting (and irrelevant) addition, I read a few weeks ago that Bush has spent about 40% of his presidency on vacation. (or 300+ days I think) Nocturnal, did you become retarded while on your ebaumsworld break?

Guys, "vacation" for a president means they arent in the white house. Do you honestly believe that when the president is at the ranch he just watches football and drink sweet tea? His entire cabinet comes with him, he does all of his daily briefings, he talks to congressman, world leaders, and every other damn thing he does when at the white house. The only difference is the physical location. And frankly, if he is more comfortable and relaxed at his ranch, that probably improves the quality of work he is doing as president.

So cut the "vacation" bullshit.

maybe he will beat ol Ronny boy yet, he is modeled after the guy If only he were...

[Nocturnal]

I've learned alot about these guys recently, I currently hold a higher image of Bush Sr. (maybe GW, not sure yet) than Regan. More inditements were handed out to members of Ronnies administration than any other president. The loyalty of this key staffers was the only thing that kept him from being impeached. In his assistance of the Contras he directly disobeyed a congressional order. A much worse crime than Nixon's order for breaking and entering, or Clinton's perjury.

I will post a source on the Regan vacation info as soon as I get it.

[Nocturnal]

I couldn't pin down a internet source but I did clarify the information. Regan spent more than 365 days at his Ranch in California during his time as President. Say what you will, but I doubt that his time was as effective at his personal ranch as at the whitehouse.