What About the Crossfire?

[L4NC3R]

Just a generic question. No one ever talks about this car anymore. What the fuck does everyone think about it?

Just like the Golf R32, for $33,620 dollars... it doesn't offer much, nor bring anything significant to the table. Styling wise... it's perhaps one of the gayest looking cars I have ever seen, horribly misproportioned. It's got a fine ass, sure. But following the curves further only reveals one huge motherfucking face comparable to the likes of the Pacifica or some equally bland non-sporty car.

Performance... sure, stuff it with as much German engineering as you want, the numbers are what count, and what I see just from the press release is nothing short of pure shit. If it was priced for less than $15,000 - by all means, it's AWESOME performance. But since it costs more than $30 grand... you should be well beyond 14 second 1/4 miles and 6 second 0-60's.

The car really offers nothing but a nice ride. It has mediocre to poor performance, no space, horrible gas mileage, a waste of a V6, and one hell of a bland ass face. No wonder nobody talks about them...

[clutch-monkey]

i saw three of these one night, and i couldn't understand why.
nobody buys them... must have been a publicity stunt.

[El Jarretto]

The R32 Golf brings things to the table...Like 4WD, being a hatchback, having a 3.2L VR6, oh and amazing modability...as in 500hp. But the Crossfire is truely hideous, I can't honestly stand Chryslers, or it's partner Mercedes for that matter.

[L4NC3R]

AWD and being a hatchback. Wow, I can really see how that's worth $30,000 grand. Almost makes me forget that it gets owned by cars almost half the price.

[Skiptomylue]

kinda like the Rx8.. cept... itsa 1.3L... and is one of the best cars you can find for a track out there.. other then that it doesnt have great 1/4 mile... or gas milage... sometimes its more about quality.. itsa luxury sports car.. it is prolly leather heated seats, very comfy and roomy.. something a lot of sports cars dont offer.... crossfire.. just even the look of it... is an olds man sports car...
i have NEVER seen one single young person driving...

[ThaiTanium22]

I'm curious to know what $15,000 "own" R32s.

[L4NC3R]

Theres a lot of them...

EDIT:
Ah fuck it... used SRT-4's, Cobalt SS's, and WRX's to name a few. Some, but not me, could probably argue with the RSX Type-S and such cars.

The R32 isn't an incredibly quick car.

[El Jarretto]

a built up car for $15 can own anything, but a brand new car? What cars own the R32 for half the price new?

[L4NC3R]

Who said anything about modified cars? I'm talking stock used cars. And in such arguement I'm very much right.

Lets also not play the "words" game like we always seem to do. I said almost half the price...

[ThaiTanium22]

Theres a lot of them...

EDIT:
Ah fuck it... used SRT-4's, Cobalt SS's, and WRX's to name a few. Some, but not me, could probably argue with the RSX Type-S and such cars.

The R32 isn't an incredibly quick car.

Used cars don't mean anything. Nick Manson can sell me his Enzo "used" for $15,000 and then I can own everything but it doesn't mean that $15,000 cars own $30,000 cars. The only car you listed that is clearly better new is the WRX and I guess with the WRX goes the Lancer Evolution but those are both exceptional vehicles.

[L4NC3R]

... here we go...an already pretty dumb (and obvious) arguement turned even dumber.

I'm not going to argue this bullshit. You'd be the biggest moron on earth to look at the R32 as being anything more than a shit deal. $30 grand + for a mid 14 second car... that's money well spent. :rolleyes:

[ThaiTanium22]

Okay, I'm going to have to whip it out...(the Top Gear lap times)

1:30.4 – Volkswagen Golf R32
1:30.9 – Audi S4 quattro 4.2
1:31.0 – Porsche 911 Turbo (wet)
1:31.3 – Vauxhall VX220 Turbo
1:31.6 – Honda NSX Type-R (wet)
1:31.8 – BMW M3
1:31.8 – BMW 535d
1:31.8 – Nissan 350Z
1:31.8 – Mazda RX-8

[pat99872]

I hate chryslers and the way they look.

[some_ugly_guy]

I'm sorry but Lancer's arguments do not make any sense.:confuzed:

[car_boy_16]

"the numbers are what count"

...yeah...whatever you say, Einstein. Numbers mean shit, the FEEL is what really matters.... For a drivers car, the only thing that matters is how good if feels to be in the car...I can tell you, Numbers mean shit unless you're on a race track or trying to boost your retarded ass ego by racing the ricer in the lane between you and the lady with 5 kids in her Corolla station wagon. Having a fast car isn't fun if it doesn't FEEL fast...having a great handling car isn't fun if it doesn't FEEL agile....having a luxury car isn't fun if you don't FEEL the luxury...Everything is relative. People do not guy a limited edtion Volkswagon because it's the best bang for their buck...if they did, they would buy a fucking nitrous-powered motorcycle, OKie? Just lose your big self-righteous ego and stop trying to spite all the people who have a car that you could not afford just because you wouldn't pick the exact car they bought if you did have the money.

Lancer, what car do you own right now? When you go cruising on the weekend, what car do like to take? Answer me this...


BTW, Thai...those numbers just don't seem correct...How is the R32 Golf quicker than an M3 and also the M3 is no quicker than the larger 535d? Something is amiss with this numbers. Driver variability? Track condition, tire condition, alignment settings, brake conditioning - if they are all new, there is a huge variability in the performance of these components due to the differences in the length of required break-in times...There is a lot to be mixed up with when comparing cars.

[Skiptomylue]

or maybe the m3 is just a heavy pig that cant handle extremly well?
look at that ...3400 pounds without the driver.. the stig doesnt look like a big guy so.. lets give him only 100 pounds... 3500 pound car ISNT the best kinda car to go around a track real fast, and maybe the suspension in the car isnt ment to be able to take corners like it was?
go rx8

[L4NC3R]

Okay, I'm going to have to whip it out...(the Top Gear lap times)

1:30.4 – Volkswagen Golf R32
1:30.9 – Audi S4 quattro 4.2
1:31.0 – Porsche 911 Turbo (wet)
1:31.3 – Vauxhall VX220 Turbo
1:31.6 – Honda NSX Type-R (wet)
1:31.8 – BMW M3
1:31.8 – BMW 535d
1:31.8 – Nissan 350Z
1:31.8 – Mazda RX-8
The two cars that I'm very sure would blow the R32 out of the water (911 and NSX) were ran under wet conditions. Thus, those times are invalid. So be a fairly smart and unbiased person and scratch those off your list.

It also seems that two of the more valid times were set by mere sport sedans. Cars I'm sure would have at least a 800lb-1,000lb disadvantage over the R32. Apples and oranges. Scratch those off the list.

You've got 3 left.

Skip pretty much summed up my opinion on the M3. There is almost a 600lb difference between the two. As I'm sure one should've said, the M3 is a "luxury sports car." Again, apples and oranges.

Now you've got 2 left.

Two cars which didn't time in better than the R32, but weren't significantly beaten. There is a 1.4 second difference between RX8/350Z and R32. Considering the 350Z is another fat cow and the RX8 has less horsepower, I can only deduce one thing from your little time database...

Considering the majority of the cars you compared the R32 with weigh more than 3,300lbs and only rang in less than 1.4 seconds behind the "2,800lb AWD V6 hatchback," I'd say the R32 is clearly overrated.

It seems the R32 can only barely win against cars that grossly out-weight it, or cars that aren't as powerful. Huh... go figure! Good arguement. :rolleyes:

Do yourself a favor and compare the R32 to the cars I picked out early in the thread, and I'm sure you'll see the errors of your logic.

PS. I don't even know why an Enzo was brought into the argument. I clearly specified which stock used cars would take on an R32.

[Duckels]

or maybe the m3 is just a heavy pig that cant handle extremly well?
look at that ...3400 pounds without the driver.. the stig doesnt look like a big guy so.. lets give him only 100 pounds... 3500 pound car ISNT the best kinda car to go around a track real fast, and maybe the suspension in the car isnt ment to be able to take corners like it was?
go rx8

You'll be hard pressed to find many comparable cars that handle better then an M3. but dont forget, as you said it is a heavy car coming in at a little over3,000 pounds, and is using a 3.2litre I6

as for the 535D it is a bi-turbo diesal with over 400 pounds of torque. scary fast for its size. comparable to the M5.

[car_boy_16]

Yes the 535d is a sporty ass E60 but still should not be able to match the M3 time-for-time on a race circuit....

...oh and who calls the E46 M3 a fat ass luxury sports coupe, implying that it's too soft and heavy to be a real sports car? LOLLLLLLLLLL! LAUL x10

[Duckels]

No saying thats an E46 M3. wouldn't be suprised if it was older, could be an E36, allthough i am curious how the E90 335 would hang.

[car_boy_16]

Good point...It helps to be specific. I as well am reallly interested in seeing how the new 335 cars are going to be...I cant wait for the aftermarket to jump on that thing and create huge turbo turbo upgrade packages and shit. I bet we'll be seeing the M3 loose out on a lot of potential customers and simply go straight to the 335i!

I would LOVE to have the 535d for sale in the USA!! We're talking about awesome power and 40mpg mixed driving, as documented by some owners on BMW forums.

[Duckels]

That and the new M3's going to a V8, and people may just go with the 335 to stay with the traditional I6, persoanly i am planning on trading my E46 330i for a 335:raiseeyeb when i can, i believe the turbo's are differnt sized, one smaller, and one larger to reduce the lag.

[Skiptomylue]

...oh and who calls the E46 M3 a fat ass luxury sports coupe, implying that it's too soft and heavy to be a real sports car? LOLLLLLLLLLL! LAUL x10
not I.. becuase look at my rx8.. its "sports Car".. but what sports car has 4 door, and a 1.3 L Engine?

all i was saying is the 2003 M3 is like 3400 pounds, has 330hp and about the same amount of torque.. and cant go around the track any faster then a 1.3L engine that prolly makes less at the engine then the M3 puts to the wheels..
the m3 wasnt meant to go around a track.... thats all...

[Duckels]

Where do you see it is an 03?, I am just having a hard time believeing an RX8 is grabbing same track times as an E46 M3, i had an RX8 for about 3-4 months, beautifull car, handles well, but not much better then me 330i, in terms of speed, the RX8 manual is a bit faster then my car. But, the numbers are the numbers and i cant argue with that.

[Squibbles]

AWD and being a hatchback. Wow, I can really see how that's worth $30,000 grand. Almost makes me forget that it gets owned by cars almost half the price.

Drive an '04 and say they arn't worth it. They get amazing traction and handle great.

[L4NC3R]

So do '03 SRT-4's (if not better than the R32) and I could pick one up for less than $15,000... easy.

[El Jarretto]

Mkay. Show me a R32 getting eaten by a new $15k SRT-4.
Price Range (Dodge SRT-4 MSRP): $27,545 - $31,390

[Squibbles]

Did he mean Neon..........







It's obvious he has never drivin a R32 (I drove a 2000 somthin I cant remember the year.). I'm not even a fan of VW and it is probably the best car as far as performance goes and I have driven a lot of high performance cars. If you have never drivin a car don't talk bad about them, unless it's a Metro.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2125786389677079082&q=r32

[shnuffy]

I dunno that car looks mighty fun. Plus, Lancer, it's beating S4's, M3's, 350Z... fuck the weight, they all want to be fast cars. That's the point, it's faster than other cars that want to be fast-- around a track. You're ragging on it for no reason. Plus it's one of the cheapest cars on that list!!

[L4NC3R]

Mkay. Show me a R32 getting eaten by a new $15k SRT-4.
Price Range (Dodge SRT-4 MSRP): $27,545 - $31,390
Show me an R32 beating an Neon SRT-4 (or Cobalt SS, WRX, RSX Type-S). :rolleyes:

Plus, Lancer, it's beating S4's, M3's, 350Z... fuck the weight, they all want to be fast cars. That's the point, it's faster than other cars that want to be fast-- around a track. You're ragging on it for no reason. Plus it's one of the cheapest cars on that list!!
It's not cheaper than the 350Z or RX8, the only two cars that have any business being compared to the R32.

And neither of these cars (R32, RX8, 350Z) feature the luxury (ect.) options the other two sport sedans and "luxury sport car" do, which would explain their differences in pricing. This only supports my apples and oranges point. They cost more for entirely different reasons.

It's obvious he has never drivin a R32 (I drove a 2000 somthin I cant remember the year.). I'm not even a fan of VW and it is probably the best car as far as performance goes and I have driven a lot of high performance cars. If you have never drivin a car don't talk bad about them, unless it's a Metro.
... Not all people who've driven/ridden one are going to be enthusastic. So yeah... I don't exactly know where you're trying to get at other than pointless flaming.

And I can damn well have an initial opinion about a car based off the information I gather from the makers of the car, and from the people who've experienced them first hand. Comparing the R32 to sports sedans and luxury sports cars, and telling me I'm "self righteous" doesn't solve anything or contribute to any sensible point, nor change my opinion about the car.

Face it guys... the R32 is pointless unless you're really a serious racer who visits a really serious circuit on a seriously regular basis. Perhaps... MAYBE then there is some justification in spending that kind of money. But for the most part, that isn't the case.

For $30 grand you could buy yourself an STi, Evo, 350Z, and whatever else sport car. Seriously, they're that low on my list. You guys seriously overrate them. I've not yet seen a considerable statistic.

[El Jarretto]

Face it guys... the R32 is pointless unless you're really a serious racer who visits a really serious circuit on a seriously regular basis. Perhaps... MAYBE then there is some justification in spending that kind of money. But for the most part, that isn't the case.

For $30 grand you could buy yourself an STi, Evo, 350Z, and whatever else sport car. Seriously, they're that low on my list. You guys seriously overrate them. I've not yet seen a considerable statistic.The R32 is awesome if you want to get a family around and the crap since i's a hatchback with AWD safety and is still very sporty. $30k well spent.

[Skiptomylue]

And neither of these cars (R32, RX8, 350Z) feature the luxury (ect.) options the other two sport sedans and "luxury sport car" do, which would explain their differences in pricing. .
what? heated leather seats, navigation built INTO the dashboard plus a whole wad of other little goodies isnt enough for the 8 to be luxury? what does a car need to have before its luxurious?

[SickMyDuck]

what does a car need to have before its luxurious?

My guess is a name.

[L4NC3R]

what? heated leather seats, navigation built INTO the dashboard plus a whole wad of other little goodies isnt enough for the 8 to be luxury? what does a car need to have before its luxurious?
The RX8 sucks too. GTFO. :D

[Skiptomylue]

and im gone.