*Offical 2006 MLB Playoffs Thread*

[Shorty|*|RocK89]

So post your thought of who will take all and who your rooting for.

[a7x1337]

rooting for the yankees, and it this point, i have no reason to doubt they wont win it all.

[Jimothy51]

I picked the A's at the beginning of the year so I will stick with them, even though I like the Twins and Yankees chances better.

[Stupified]

Probably the Mets. I don't think the Yankees have the pitching to make it. I'd love to see the Twins win it, though.

[a7x1337]

Probably the Mets. I don't think the Yankees have the pitching to make it.
the mets have glavine, maine, el duque, and trachsel...that's hardly a dominant rotation

[Stupified]

the mets have glavine, maine, el duque, and trachsel...that's hardly a dominant rotation

Depends on who they're going to be playing in the first round. Being in the NL, the Mets have a better chance of making it past the first round, while the Yankees (especially if they're matched up against the Twins) have no chance without good pitching. Regardless, I'm still going with the Mets.

[a7x1337]

Depends on who they're going to be playing in the first round. Being in the NL, the Mets have a better chance of making it past the first round, while the Yankees (especially if they're matched up against the Twins) have no chance without good pitching. Regardless, I'm still going with the Mets.
i see your point, but even if the mets get to the series, they're going to be swept by whatever AL team they play

[322]

i don't like baseball, but i sometimes watch the semi finals. so i'll jump on the mets bandwagon.

[Shorty|*|RocK89]

Mindless Minnesota

"I'd rather play the Yankees, because I know we can beat them." -- Twins owner Carl Pohlad

"I want to play the Yankees. I want to take those guys out. For two years in a row they've been eating our butts up, and now I want to do the biting." -– Torii Hunter

I've always wondered what living in Minnesota would be like, and judging from the previous two comments, I have apparently found my answer. All that cold must have some sort of strange impact on people's brains, because there's no other explanation for two quotes as ridiculous as these.


1. Jonhnny Damon
2. Derek Jeter
3. Bobby Abreu
4. Alex Rodriguez
5. Jason Giambi
6. Gary Sheffield
7. Hideki Matsui
8. Jorge Posada
9. Robinson Cano

With that lineup they must be smoking crack to be talking like that.

[Tanooki]

I voted for the Twinkies. I think they have the best chance to go all the way.

[proton]

Even without Pedro Martinez, the Mets will win it all.

LETS GO METS! LETS GO METS! LETS GO METS!

[Shorty|*|RocK89]

Bernie Williams will be the Yankees manager for sunday's game .Also he will pick either Mussina or Rivera as Pitching Coach. LOL

[a7x1337]

it seriously boggles my mind that people think the mets will win.

they have a worse record than the yankees, and they're in the friggin NL EAST!

their record is identical to the twins and tigers, and they are in, arguably, the toughest division in the league

[YankeesSuck]

I'm not sure who I will think win. I figured Houston was gonna get in. And atleast win the NL, but very little chance they are gonna get in. If Johnson don't pitch for the Yanks, I'm not sure if they can win either. Still win that offense and Rivera closing, they won't be easy to beat.

[2000 civic si]

Houston still alive even though their down by 3 scores in the bottom of the 5 and STL is losing 4-0 to the Brewers so if the Astros lose the and Cards lose i will be pissed. Astros need this win to force the Cards to play a make up game in San Fran on monday. Even if the Cards make the playoffs, they will be first round losers anyway if they keep playing like they do.

[atreyu_2020]

It's either going to be the Twins or Yankees, probably Yankees but sure as hell no NL team will win it.

[2000 civic si]

It's either going to be the Twins or Yankees, probably Yankees but sure as hell no NL team will win it.

I can still hope if the Astros are in they will win but the Yanks do look like the Favorite to win in my book. They got Sheffield and Mastui back so that should help their O even more.

[Chewy]

Yankees I'm rooting for, if not them then the A's. But I have good feeling about the Yankees this year we will see how serious they are one Tuesday.

[ftbllplr]

I'm rooting for the Twins. I've always been a fan. Even when they were 15 games back or whatever.

[Darkness]

I feel confident that the Tigers will win it all this year.

no, not really

[JerkyMyTurky]

I picked the Mets, but they don't seem as dominant as they were in the first half of the season. The offense is up and down, but I think they will show up for the playoffs. It's the pitching that worries me. The bullpen is fine, its the starters that scare me. There isn't a real power house of a pitcher on the staff. Even when Pedro was healthy, all the pitchers were/are finesse or soft stuff pitchers. Maine has good hard stuff, but he's a rookie and I don't know how focused he will be in the playoffs. Hopefully, Glavine and El Duque show up and keep the score low enough that the offense can muster up a win. I think the Mets have a chance to get the world series. Not too confident of them winning it all. I think the Twins have a better chance to win it all. Twins over the Mets in 7. Hoping its the Mets over the Yankees in 4.

[YankeesSuck]

I can't believe the Tigers gave up the division lead for the first time all year, on the last day of the season.

[Shorty|*|RocK89]

I can't believe the Tigers gave up the division lead for the first time all year, on the last day of the season.

It happened to the Red Sox in 2005.

[Jimothy51]

It happened to the Red Sox in 2005.
No it didn't.

[Ace Hippie]

I'm rooting for my hometown A's, maybe with the Big Hurt around to hit home runs and Milton Bradley to kill unhelpful umpires, this will be our year :)

[Owned]

Fuck the twins... I used to like the Royals, not anymore.

I'm from Detroit.

Everyone that counts Detroit out just makes me feel so sad it's been 8 years or something since they've been over .500 FOR FUCKS SKAE

[Darkness]

Fuck the twins... I used to like the Royals, not anymore.

I'm from Detroit.

Everyone that counts Detroit out just makes me feel so sad it's been 8 years or something since they've been over .500 FOR FUCKS SKAE

I'm sad to feel that they are hopeless, but after the last three games I not very optimistic. Their pitching seems to have disappeared, guys that are normally clutch hitters (esp. Pudge) seem to have lost it completely. I will watch, but I don't expect it to be pretty...

[goatwalker]

Every single year people pick the Yankees, and every single year they lose. and I don't see anything different this year. It seems ;like all the experts are closet Yankee fans.

Pedro did absolutley nothing for the mets this year, yet they still have the best record in the NL. They will be fine.

The dodgers offense has been hit or miss all year

I don't know much about Padres but they will make it to the NLCS

Both the Tigers and Cardinals went downhill really fast at the end of the year
and the teams they are facing will beat them.

The Twins have been the hottest team right now, and know one is looking at the Athletics (they will be the sleeper team). Whoever wins between the A's and Twins is going to the World Series.

In the end it will be the Twins and Mets in the World Series. I'll pick that series once it comes up.

[brainkandy87]

I think the playoffs will round out like this:

Cards/Pads: Cards
Mets/Dodgers: Mets
Yanks/Tigers: Yanks
Twins/A's: Twins

Cards/Mets: Cards
Twins/Yanks: Yanks

Cards/Yanks: Yanks

The Yankees are going to win. As much as I hate them, they're just too good in every way not to win. I'll be there in St. Louis for Game 3 of the NLDS. It'll be a clean sweep of the Padres. I'll take pictures.

[a7x1337]

not playoff related, but the marlins got rid of girardi. friggin retards

[Weasel]

Oakland is leading Minnesota 2-1 in the top of the 9th. Zito and Santana both went 8 (well, Zito hasn't left the game yet, but Santana was replaced). My prediction for the first round:

A's over Twins - C'mon, the Twins have two rookies starting, both against experienced A's starters, not to mention that the A's have one of their two aces starting in the 4th game....
Yanks over Tigers - This will be dead even as far as pitching goes, but the Yankees have a stronger lineup, with more postseason experience. I wouldn't be surprised if the Tigers pull it off, but I won't expect them to.
Padres over Cardinals - Padres definitely have the pitching advantage, and Cardinals have hitting - but, I think the Padres have the edge defensively and the Cardinals will have to depend on Pujols to carry the entire team.
Dodgers over Mets - The Mets have been lucky as far as I'm concerned, and their weak division contributed to their success. Without Pedro, they're short on pitching, while the Dodgers have Lowe and Maddox to carry them. Couple that with Nomar's outstanding play this year, and the Dodgers are set to win the NLDS.


EDIT - Oakland takes a 3-1 lead in the top of the 9th, goes on to win 3-2. Zito gets the win, Street gets save, Santana gets a tough loss. That's how game one of a playoff series is supposed to be. None of that blowout crap.

[YankeesSuck]

You might be right. Now I think about it more Oakland might beat em. The Twins couldn't win with Santana, might be a early exit for the Twins. But Oakland isn't know for keeping leads, atleast in the past they weren't. If El Duque is out for the Mets that will definitly seal it for them, bye bye.

[Jimothy51]

These were my predictions in the preaseason:
AL East W L
New York 93 69
Boston 86 76
Toronto 83 79

Actual
New York 97 65 4 off
Toronto 87 75 4 off
Boston 86 76 sucks, but I was right

AL Central W L
Cleveland 90 72
Minnesota 88 74
Chicago 86 76

Actual
Minnesota 96 66 8 off
Detroit 95 67 ouch
Chicago 90 72 4 off
Cleveland 78 84 Ouch

AL West W L
Oakland 96 66
Los Angeles 89 73
Texas 81 81

Actual
Oakland 93 69 3 off right spot
Los Angeles 89 73 Damn right
Texas 80 82 1 off right spot


ALDS
Oakland beats Cleveland in 4
New York beats LAA in 5
ALCS
Oakland beats New York in 6

I'll stick with Oakland and NY in the ALCS.

NL East W L
New York 87 75
Philadelphia 86 76
Atlanta 85 77

Actual
New York 97 65 10 off, but right spot
Philadelphia 85 77 1 off
Atlanta 79 83 6 off, right spot


NL Central W L
St. Louis 95 67
Chicago 85 77
Milwaukee 79 83
Cincinnati 79-83
Houston 78 84 <--- Without Roger Clemens. With him they will be in 2nd.

Actual
St. Louis 83 78 12 off, right spot
Houston 82 80 right spot, would have had them at 85
Cincinnati 80 82 1 off
Milwaukee 75 87 4 off
Chicago 66 96 cursed


NL West W L
Los Angeles 86 76
San Francisco 86 76
San Diego 77 85

Actual
San Diego 88 11 off
Los Angeles 88 74 2 off
San Francisco 76 85 10 off


NLDS
St. Louis beats Phily in 5
Mets beat Los Angeles in 4

NLCS
Mets beat St. Louis in 7

I'll take the Mets and St. Louis still, but I have a feeling the MEts are limping in.

World Series
Oakland beats Mets in 5

I still don't think the Mets will make it, but I'm sticking to this.

[Travmire]

I'm not voting, because if I had to pick, it would be the Yankees.

The Reds didn't make it, big shock. On to next year.

As long as the Dodgers, the Cardinals, and the Yankees don't win, I don't care.

I'll root for the winner of the Twins-A's series.

[MiKe]

YANKEES. Shit...speak of the devil, I gotta go. Game's just about to start.

[Shorty|*|RocK89]

Yankees = fuck yeah.

[YankeesSuck]

Dam Jeter is 5 for 5, and roid man Giambi homers again.

[DontBottaMe13]

jeter = best all around player in baseball hands down

[a7x1337]

jeter = best all around player in baseball hands down
damn straight.

torre should've let wang get that one LAST out...seriously, wtf.

[Weasel]

jeter = best all around player in baseball hands down

Joe Mauer played better than Jeter did....please. He hit just as well, and played a harder position, not to mention that he's much younger than Jeter and still has time to develop (he's almost 9 years younger) into a better player. True, he doesn't play other positions...but when's the last time Jeter played as something other than SS or DH? Exactly, never, so that point is moot.

Jeter also gets more recognition than he should for some things. Like that "diving into the stands" play wasn't even a diving play. He caught the ball about 15 feet from the stands, and then jumped in after he had it in his glove. Mike Lowell made a true diving into the stands play this year (where he actually caught it as he was going over the wall) and the most anyone said was putting him on Sportscenter's Top 10. People still haven't stopped talking about that one play that Jeter made, and it's not even one of the best of his career. O-VER-RATED.

For Jeter and Lowell comparisons:

Jeter: http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/multimedia/tp_archive.jsp?c_id=nyy&ym=200407 (go to July 1, and click on the link for the video of "Jeter goes into the stands")
Lowell: http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/multimedia/tp_archive.jsp?c_id=bos&ym=200608 (go to Aug. 11, and click on the link for the video of "Lowell dives into the crowd")

[Chewy]

Joe Mauer played better than Jeter did....please. He hit just as well, and played a harder position, not to mention that he's much younger than Jeter and still has time to develop (he's almost 9 years younger) into a better player. True, he doesn't play other positions...but when's the last time Jeter played as something other than SS or DH? Exactly, never, so that point is moot. Being a utility doesn't mean quality of a player. That simply preposterous to suggest that.

Jeter also gets more recognition than he should for some things. Like that "diving into the stands" play wasn't even a diving play. He caught the ball about 15 feet from the stands, and then jumped in after he had it in his glove. Mike Lowell made a true diving into the stands play this year (where he actually caught it as he was going over the wall) and the most anyone said was putting him on Sportscenter's Top 10. People still haven't stopped talking about that one play that Jeter made, and it's not even one of the best of his career. O-VER-RATED. Jeter is one of he hardest working players on the field, and when there looks like there is no hope for them to rally back he pulls something off and the Yankees are back in the game. Now I did notice in your stats there you didn’t compare WS jewelry, when it’s all said and done it’s about the hardware at the end of the season, few players have as much play off experience as Jeter, very few. Stating he is overrated speak to your deficiencies in knowledge of the game.

[a7x1337]

Lowell: http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/multimedia/tp_archive.jsp?c_id=bos&ym=200608 (go to Aug. 11, and click on the link for the video of "Lowell dives into the crowd")
uh, he made the catch and then afterwards he tripped into the stands.

you make it sound like he made a flying grab four rows in.

[AsHopeDies]

Being a utility doesn't mean quality of a player. That simply preposterous to suggest that.
Jeter is one of he hardest working players on the field, and when there looks like there is no hope for them to rally back he pulls something off and the Yankees are back in the game. Now I did notice in your stats there you didn’t compare WS jewelry, when it’s all said and done it’s about the hardware at the end of the season, few players have as much play off experience as Jeter, very few. Stating he is overrated speak to your deficiencies in knowledge of the game.

I think when he said overrated it was more in reference to that catch, and not Jeter as a player.

But further more, Jeter isn't nearly good enough with the glove to be the best all around player in baseball, much less "hands down." He's an extremely consistent offensive player on the most popular team in baseball. If he was on another team, you wouldn't hear about him nearly as much as you do now. And his play into the stands and the most overrated play in the history of baseball, the backhand flip cutoff against the A's, would never have received a fraction of the attention it has. A good highschool player could have made that play, it's hilarious to hear people go on and on about it.

[a7x1337]

another difference between those two catches:

jeter made that catch with two outs, runners in scoring position, in the 12th inning against the RED SOX.

lowell made a less impressive catch against the orioles in no particularly dire situation.

[Jimothy51]

Best all-around players in baseball:
Pujols
Beltran
Miguel Cabrera
Mauer
David Wright
Bay
Hafner, Howard, Ortiz (just for offense)
A-Rod
Soriano
Sizemore
Utley
Jeter

[Travmire]

I think Jeter is overrated. Does he have some rings? Yeah, but he has also had more talent around him than just about anyone. If he wore a different uniform, no one would give a damn.

And the flip play isn't that great, plus the play at the plate was more impressive than what Jeter did.

[a7x1337]

Soriano
he can't field very well :-/

[Weasel]

Best all-around players in baseball:
Pujols
Beltran
Miguel Cabrera
Mauer
David Wright
Bay
Hafner, Howard, Ortiz (just for offense)
A-Rod
Soriano
Sizemore
Utley
Jeter

You forgot Ichiro (best hitter for avg. in recent times, can steal bases, amazing defense that puts almost anyone to shame), Edmunds (again, one of the best center fielders of our time, plus he's a consistently good/powerful hitter), and Vlad (same case as the other two).

Jeter is one of he hardest working players on the field, and when there looks like there is no hope for them to rally back he pulls something off and the Yankees are back in the game. Now I did notice in your stats there you didn’t compare WS jewelry, when it’s all said and done it’s about the hardware at the end of the season, few players have as much play off experience as Jeter, very few. Stating he is overrated speak to your deficiencies in knowledge of the game.

There are tons of players who single-handedly make comebacks. Did you notice that WS titles are a reflection on a team, not a single player? Remember, back in the 90's, the Yankees had tons of good players who were also team players. Now that they're gone (pretty much all that's left is Posada, Rivera, and Jeter, plus Williams, but his career is done), the Yankees aren't winning championships. Williams and Jeter both have 4 rings, but that doesn't mean that Williams is as good as Jeter, does it?

uh, he made the catch and then afterwards he tripped into the stands.

you make it sound like he made a flying grab four rows in.

The order of events doesn't matter, since the order is the same for both Jeter and Lowell. The difference is that Lowell was within inches of the wall and didn't care, and Jeter was still within fair ground when he made the play. Lowell was also looking away when he got to the wall, as he was in the process of catching the ball. Jeter was looking right at the wall when he got to it.

another difference between those two catches:

jeter made that catch with two outs, runners in scoring position, in the 12th inning against the RED SOX.

lowell made a less impressive catch against the orioles in no particularly dire situation.

You're downplaying Lowell's catch from the get-go by calling it "less impressive". I don't know how you can call Jeter's catch better... it was simply a running catch. I guarantee Jeter would've done the same thing had they been playing the Orioles, and Lowell would've done the same thing had they been playing the Yankees (except at Yankee stadium, he would've been mugged in the stands).

he can't field very well :-/

He lead the majors in outfield assists and he hadn't played OF in at least 10 years (which was when he was in the minors, I'm not sure when he played OF in the minors). Get off your high-horse.

[Travmire]

He lead the majors in outfield assists and he hadn't played OF in at least 10 years (which was when he was in the minors, I'm not sure when he played OF in the minors). Get off your high-horse.

Yeah, but usually if you lead the majors in outfield assists, it's because people know they can run on your weak arm. Didn't Manny lead this stat last year?

Soriano also led all second baseman in errors while he was at that position.

[Jimothy51]

Soriano was a 40/40 player. Nuff said. You're right on Ichiro though. Edmonds is declining and is becoming average defensively. Vlad has a cannon, but his range is comical. Makes Wily Mo look like Grady Sizemore. Another player I forgot was Vernon Wells. Berkman, Atkins, and Crawford just missed.

[Ace Hippie]

Yeah, but usually if you lead the majors in outfield assists, it's because people know they can run on your weak arm. Didn't Manny lead this stat last year?

Other than his occasional airheadedness, Manny's okay in the field. The reason he gets so many assists is because he plays left in Fenway, so he can throw people out off the carom of the Green Monster. It's not, however, because he's a great fielder.

Jeter, incidentally, would get my vote for AL MVP. However, he's not the best player in the league, he's not even the best on his team. Struggles this year aside, Alex Rodriguez is a far superior player to Jeter.

Jeter is one of he hardest working players on the field, and when there looks like there is no hope for them to rally back he pulls something off and the Yankees are back in the game.

Miguel Tejada did that for the A's quite a bit, without the benefit of any hype machine. Best player in baseball.

Now I did notice in your stats there you didn’t compare WS jewelry, when it’s all said and done it’s about the hardware at the end of the season, few players have as much play off experience as Jeter, very few. Stating he is overrated speak to your deficiencies in knowledge of the game.

Yes, and that had nothing to do with the players around Jeter or the fact he plays for the Yankees right? He's certainly been a major player on those teams but if you're going to insult someone for 'deficiencies' in knowledge, using a team accomplishment as the end-all judgement of an individual player ranks right up among the worst.

[DontBottaMe13]

everyone thinks jeter is overrated except yankee fans cuz were the ones who see what he does on a daily basis...theres no need to even waste my time arguing with anyone about how hes not overrated. Consistent on offense doesnt come close to doing justice to describe him. He bats like 395 with runners in scoring position. Not to mention how many gold gloves hes had. Rookie of the year, world series MVP, all star game MVP, definately possible 2006 AL MVP, highlight reel plays up the ass. He can hit, field, steal bases, hes a smart base runner, hes an amazing bunter, always hits a deep sac fly with a runner on 3rd if he doesnt just single or double him in, and he can hit the hit and run play better than anyone ive seen. Anyone who doesnt think hes the best all around player in baseball obviously hasnt seen what hes capable of end of story. Dont be jealous boston fans.


oh and PS...dont ever compare lowell to jeter again thats the most ridiculous shti i ever heard.

[Ace Hippie]

everyone thinks jeter is overrated except yankee fans cuz were the ones who see what he does on a daily basis...

Of course, everyone but Yankees fans must be wrong. It couldn't possibly be that Yankees fans would therefore be biased right?

theres no need to even waste my time arguing with anyone about how hes not overrated. Consistent on offense doesnt come close to doing justice to describe him.

Yeah it does. He's generally a .290-.320 type hitter, 15-20 homers, 120ish runs, etc. Consistent isn't bad with numbers like those.

He bats like 395 with runners in scoring position.

He hit .381 this year w/RISP, true. But, he hit .261 last year in those situations, .281 the year before.

Not to mention how many gold gloves hes had.

The two he has. Not to mention that his defense was terrible to begin with, and it's more a matter of him being pretty good than great.

Rookie of the year, world series MVP, all star game MVP, definately possible 2006 AL MVP, highlight reel plays up the ass.

All well and good. he's still not as good as Alex Rodriguez (and possibly others, I'm using ARod as a simple counterpoint)

He can hit, field, steal bases, hes a smart base runner, hes an amazing bunter, always hits a deep sac fly with a runner on 3rd if he doesnt just single or double him in, and he can hit the hit and run play better than anyone ive seen.

Yes, he can hit, although not with as much power as others. He fields okay now, but used to be pretty bad. Good baserunner yes, amazing bunter - so what, if he's that good a hitter he shouldn't be bunting. I'd be willing to bet he doesn't "always" hit a sacrifice fly or double them in though, or I'd guess he'd be hitting like .600 with RISP.

Anyone who doesnt think hes the best all around player in baseball obviously hasnt seen what hes capable of end of story. Dont be jealous boston fans.

Or they aren't Boston fans and realize Alex Rodriguez dwarfs Derek Jeter.


oh and PS...dont ever compare lowell to jeter again thats the most ridiculous shti i ever heard.

He was comparing defensive plays, read it more carefully. Lowell is a good defensive 3B.

[DontBottaMe13]

Hes only batted under 300 3 times in his 10 year career, and never under 290. Hes a 320 lifetime hitter.

And good hitters bunt too the yankees won the 96 world series with strait small ball shit like moving the runners over, he doesnt bunt often cuz he IS an amazing hitter, but when he does its always perfect.

and yea your right a-rod prolly is the best player in baseball, but, and i hate to sound like typical ESPN broadcaster but its true, its what jeter does outside the numbers that makes him more valuable. I guess the best all around player award comes down to opinion but whatever the case is you cant say hes not at least ONE of the best

And sac flies dont increase ur batting average so idk y hed bat 600 if he sac'd runners in often.

[Ace Hippie]

Hes only batted under 300 3 times in his 10 year career, and never under 290. Hes a 320 lifetime hitter.

Fine, he's a .295/.300-.320 hitter. The simple fact is being 'consistent' isn't bad in Jeter's case. He's consistently a very good player, and occasionally (1999, this year) oustanding.

And good hitters bunt too the yankees won the 96 world series with strait small ball shit like moving the runners over, he doesnt bunt often cuz he IS an amazing hitter, but when he does its always perfect.

What I'm saying is that being a great bunter isn't really the mark of a great player per se. I want my good/great hitters to be hitting away.

As for the 1996 World Series - that's simply wrong. The Yankees lost the first two games, then:

Game 3: Scored one run on 'small ball' (1st inning). Two runs on a homer, two runs on normal rallies.

Game 4: Won 8-6, including the big 3 run homer by Leyritz off Wohlers

Game 5: 1-0, but the run scored off of an error and then a double.

Game 6: 3-2, one run due to small ball (Jeter stealing 2nd, driven in by Bernie Williams), other two were based off normal rallies.

and yea your right a-rod prolly is the best player in baseball, but, and i hate to sound like typical ESPN broadcaster but its true, its what jeter does outside the numbers that makes him more valuable. I guess the best all around player award comes down to opinion but whatever the case is you cant say hes not at least ONE of the best

Of course not, he's a very good offensive player who plays a major defensive position and plays it decently. He has the 'intangibles', but I'm not sure how much you can give for that without it being guesswork. Like I said, this year I'd give him the MVP, overall I'd rather have ARod and his extra 30-40 extra base hits, better defense (at SS), and all around game.

And sac flies dont increase ur batting average so idk y hed bat 600 if he sac'd runners in often.

You said he either singled or doubled them in or hit sac flies, implying he drives them in all the time. If he was good enough to always get sac flies, wouldn't he be hitting like .600 or .700 generally? My point is simply that you're exaggerating his prowess at driving in runners.

[Chewy]

Miguel Tejada did that for the A's quite a bit, without the benefit of any hype machine. Best player in baseball. I saw Tejada play a few years back in Oakland, they were playing against the Indians Omar Vizquel look like a fool at Short. That place I put Jeter is not exclusive Tejada has that same passion and fire in his belly for the game and plays hard. I also disagree with that assumption he didn’t get credit he was very much credited with his many roles in that 22 game winning streak they torn up that year.

Soriano was a 40/40 player. Soriano was one of my favorite players I was very disappointed to see him leave the Yankees.


Yeah, but he has also had more talent around him than just about anyone. If he wore a different uniform, no one would give a damn.
You can gold plate shit and its still shit. The excuse that he is surrounded by greatness is rather weak argument. Jeter is rather consistent when his peer’s tank plays; he the guy that gets the team back on task and comes through when it appears there is no hope of success. There are no stats for that.



There are tons of players who single-handedly make comebacks. No there is not if there was then guys like Big Papi would all over the MLB they are not. There are only a handful.

[Ace Hippie]

I saw Tejada play a few years back in Oakland, they were playing against the Indians Omar Vizquel look like a fool at Short. That place I put Jeter is not exclusive Tejada has that same passion and fire in his belly for the game and plays hard. I also disagree with that assumption he didn’t get credit he was very much credited with his many roles in that 22 game winning streak they torn up that year.

I was being somewhat facetious - the problem is that these "heart and guts" type arguments are entirely too subjective. People will always argue their favorite player 'plays hard', 'is a gamer', 'is clutch' and so on.

Just so it's clear - I think Jeter's a great player - he's not elite at any aspect of the game, but he's very good or better at everything but fielding, and even more so given his position. He does have intangibles going for him and he has made big plays in the playoffs. I think it's clear that he's going to the Hall of Fame. I just don't think it's at all reasonable to claim he's the best player in baseball.

[Jimothy51]

Every defensive metric I've seen has put Jeter as one of the 5 worst defensive SS in the game, mainly because his first step is as slow as molasses. He is good on routine grounders, balls he has to charge, and going back on pop-ups. Anything left or right he is below average. Just because he does the jump throw does not mean he is teh b3st!1 Alex Gonzalez makes most of those plays with his eyes closed.

Jeter is a great player, but hardly top tier. Top tier is Pujols, Beltran, Miguel Cabrera, Mauer, and Wright. Miguel Cabrera will go down as one of the best players in MLB history. Book it.

Edit: We basically posted the same thing.

[Weasel]

Hes only batted under 300 3 times in his 10 year career, and never under 290. Hes a 320 lifetime hitter.

And good hitters bunt too the yankees won the 96 world series with strait small ball shit like moving the runners over, he doesnt bunt often cuz he IS an amazing hitter, but when he does its always perfect.

and yea your right a-rod prolly is the best player in baseball, but, and i hate to sound like typical ESPN broadcaster but its true, its what jeter does outside the numbers that makes him more valuable. I guess the best all around player award comes down to opinion but whatever the case is you cant say hes not at least ONE of the best

And sac flies dont increase ur batting average so idk y hed bat 600 if he sac'd runners in often.

The same can be said about Nomar..... he's a lifetime .318 hitter, batted under .300 three times (not counting his first partial year when he only had 87 ABs in 1996, his rookie year was really 1997), and the lowest he's batted is .283 (last year, when he was injured). He has more homeruns than Jeter, slightly less RBIs (we'll call them even overall in those two stats), same with SLG/OBP, and Jeter has more steals. Overall, I think they're even offensively. Defensively, Nomar had two bad years in Chicago, which you can't completely blame him for. Those things happen when your entire team sucks (this goes the other way with Jeter, too - good play happens when your entire team is doing well). I think that they're even defensively also, and that your "points" really don't prove anything. The fact that you stated that every bunt Jeter makes is perfect shows you how biased you are. I'd put Jeter among the best shortstops offensively, and nowhere near the best defensively (same goes for Nomar).

[Chewy]

I was being somewhat facetious - the problem is that these "heart and guts" type arguments are entirely too subjective. People will always argue their favorite player 'plays hard', 'is a gamer', 'is clutch' and so on.Baseball is subjective, that’s why they have so many types of stats trying to figure out the game and quantify it.


I just don't think it's at all reasonable to claim he's the best player in baseball.
Who is every great player has someone that bests them at something. There are no single greatest players.

[YankeesSuck]

lol @ the two Dodgers getting thrown out at the plate on the same play. I never seen that before. And I'm confused on why the Dodgers put Brad Penny in out of the bullpen. I mean he will probably be starting in game 2 or 3. It's not like if they lose they are eliminated.

[Ace Hippie]

Baseball is subjective, that’s why they have so many types of stats trying to figure out the game and quantify it.

Unlike "guts", "hustle", "trying hard", "being a gamer" and so on, stats can be quantified and compared at least somewhat objectively. I can tell you that Moises Alou has more guts than Randall Simon but I can never really provide a substantive argument in that regard (unless, say, Simon was found weeping after getting a hangnail, or something). I can't tell you if Tony Perez or Derek Jeter are better leaders or if Reggie Jackson has "postseason mentality" while Brooks Robinson does not. Stats, at least, can be adjusted for the era and stadium they were produced in, and so on. They are not completely objective nor are they the complete answer, but I'll take them over completely subjective arguments that basically boil down to which player the person likes more.

Who is every great player has someone that bests them at something. There are no single greatest players.

You don't have to be the best at everything to be the greatest player overall. Willie Mays was better defensively and on the basepaths than Babe Ruth, but I still put Ruth #1 on my list. In any case, I was responding to the claim that Jeter is the 'greatest player' in baseball, which I would actually say is Alex Rodriguez, by a fair margin. Rodriguez does a lot more on offense and is a better defensive shortstop by a good margin too.

[Weasel]

No there is not if there was then guys like Big Papi would all over the MLB they are not. There are only a handful.

Fine, change "tons" to "plenty". Pujols, Ortiz, Manny, Miggy, Nomar, Bonds (as much as I hate that SOB, but he's almost done and his team is horrible), Howard, A-Rod, Vlad, Beltran, Cabrera, etc. can all do it. The fact that the Yankees themselves have multiple players that can do it should be enough to tell you that Jeter isn't unique in this aspect.

[Chewy]

Unlike "guts", "hustle", "trying hard", "being a gamer" and so on, stats can be quantified and compared at least somewhat objectively. I can tell you that Moises Alou has more guts than Randall Simon but I can never really provide a substantive argument in that regard (unless, say, Simon was found weeping after getting a hangnail, or something). I can't tell you if Tony Perez or Derek Jeter are better leaders or if Reggie Jackson has "postseason mentality" while Brooks Robinson does not. Stats, at least, can be adjusted for the era and stadium they were produced in, and so on. They are not completely objective nor are they the complete answer, but I'll take them over completely subjective arguments that basically boil down to which player the person likes more.Right, however you still try to quantify something that is qualifiers. You can not measure ambition that well.


You don't have to be the best at everything to be the greatest player overall. Willie Mays was better defensively and on the basepaths than Babe Ruth, but I still put Ruth #1 on my list.Where as my list would have Lou Gehrig or Hank Aaron in that field. ;)


In any case, I was responding to the claim that Jeter is the 'greatest player' in baseball, which I would actually say is Alex Rodriguez, by a fair margin. Rodriguez does a lot more on offense and is a better defensive shortstop by a good margin too. ahh but A-Rod is not a leader, and Jeter is.

Fine, change "tons" to "plenty". Pujols, Ortiz, Manny, Miggy, Nomar, Bonds (as much as I hate that SOB, but he's almost done and his team is horrible), Howard, A-Rod, Vlad, Beltran, Cabrera, etc. can all do it. The fact that the Yankees themselves have multiple players that can do it should be enough to tell you that Jeter isn't unique in this aspect.Plenty!!! out of the 1,00’s Major leaguers, the millions of ball players from the whole populous of the planet…:rolleyes:


there is only a handful.

[Weasel]

Plenty!!! out of the 1,00’s Major leaguers, the millions of ball players from the whole populous of the planet…:rolleyes:


there is only a handful.

Since I don't follow baseball from other countries (other than that one Canadian team :)), they're all from U.S. teams. The fact that Jeter can help his team mount a comeback doesn't make him the best player in baseball, as there are plenty of players that can do that. :blahblah: This is getting repetitive, and Jeter fans will never get it through their thick heads that he isn't the best. I haven't even been naming players from my favorite team as the only great players, I'm open-minded enough to realize there's a world outside of my team.

By the way, learn some grammar....reading through your posts is almost as hard as believing that Jeter is the best player on the planet.

[Chewy]

Since I don't follow baseball from other countries (other than that one Canadian team :)), they're all from U.S. teams. Where they are based and what city they play is irrelevant, they have players from all over the world playing on those teams. Korea, Japan, Canada, Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic, Australia, Venezuela, Mexico, Cuba and so on… ... the MLB hosts the best of the best... of the world.

The fact that Jeter can help his team mount a comeback doesn't make him the best player in baseball, as there are plenty of players that can do that. :blahblah: Look this is might be a new skill for you but when have yet to state that I thought he was the "Best" ball player… I know it’s hard but try reading what I post.

By the way, learn some grammar....reading through your posts is almost as hard as believing that Jeter is the best player on the planet.
:rolleyes: ..... I'd rather be accused of not articulating my thoughts grammatically than not knowing the subject at hand.

[Travmire]

You can gold plate shit and its still shit. The excuse that he is surrounded by greatness is rather weak argument. Jeter is rather consistent when his peer’s tank plays; he the guy that gets the team back on task and comes through when it appears there is no hope of success. There are no stats for that.

No, I think the fact that Jeter is surrounded by talent is a very valid argument, especially if you want to lay claim to his "Greatness" because of his rings. Did Jeter play third? Was he at catcher? Tell me again, how many games has he pitched in the World Series? He has always, I repeat, ALWAYS had All Star players around him. Plenty of the Yankees' players over the last few years have even been All Stars before they ever donned pin stripes. Jeter is consistent, yes I'll give you that. He always plays somewhere between average and very good, but just because he doesn't have great slumps doesn't mean his play affects anyone else. Giambi doesn't hit a home run because Jeter is batting .300, he hits the homer because he's a great player. If Jeter somehow has this magical power that raises everyone around him to a new level, then why do they even slump? Isn't a game winning RBI in the ninth from Jeter enough to make A-Rod play well?

Jeter isn't a mythical god with powers to make everyone around him better, he was just in the right place at the right time. He was around for the Yankees' resurgence, he was young, he played short stop, and he's a marketable person.

I still say that if Jeter was on the Royals, with his same numbers and his same "Abilities" to lead, he wouldn't come close to being considered the best player outside of Kansas City.

[Chewy]

No, I think the fact that Jeter is surrounded by talent is a very valid argument, especially if you want to lay claim to his "Greatness" because of his rings.I think you are confusing a team dynamics with solo performances. I'm not. Jeter is like guys like Rodger Clemens, Yogi Berra they simply motivate those around them to excel.

[Weasel]

Where they are based and what city they play is irrelevant, they have players from all over the world playing on those teams. Korea, Japan, Canada, Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic, Australia, Venezuela, Mexico, Cuba and so on… ... the MLB hosts the best of the best... of the world.
Look this is might be a new skill for you but when have yet to state that I thought he was the "Best" ball player… I know it’s hard but try reading what I post.

:rolleyes: ..... I'd rather be accused of not articulating my thoughts grammatically than not knowing the subject at hand.

Nice job, hypocrit. I never said from the U.S., I said on U.S. teams - aka, in MLB, and not in the Japan leagues, Latin American Leagues, etc. You said "the millions of ball players from the whole populous of the planet", which would include other leagues, would it not? Stop contradicting yourself. I know the subject at hand very well, stop trying to believe that you have any idea what I do or don't know. Everyone was discussing whether or not Jeter is the best player, and you commented on that discussion. One would assume that you were contributing to the side that thinks that Jeter is the best, considering how highly you spoke of him.

EDIT:

Oh, and this:

I think you are confusing a team dynamics with solo performances. I'm not. Jeter is like guys like Rodger Clemens, Yogi Berra they simply motivate those around them to excel.

Is a bunch of BS. Let's see how many people I can name that were great players before they came to the Yankees and played with Jeter (and some were even better before they got there):

Clemens
A-Rod
Giambi
Matsui (in Japan)
Wells
Sheffield
Boggs
Paul O'Neil (he got better when he switched leagues, but that was well before Jeter came up)
David Cone
Mussina
Randy Johnson
Plus every one of last years' pitchers that was a first-year Yankee

Gee, Jeter wasn't ever surrounded by great players, was he? And none of those players were already playing great before they played with him, did they?

[JerkyMyTurky]

Here is the video of double play at home plate...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v81B0kLj0PY
http://www.zshare.net/video/double-play-at-home-plate-wmv.html

If Kent broke from 2nd the moment that ball was hit, or at least gone half way to 3rd, he would have had a chance to score. Bad base running by Kent by not taking a better lead of 2nd and breaking sooner and bad base running by Drew, for not holding up at 3rd and following Kent to home plate. Good excution by the Mets outfielder relaying the ball to the cutoff man and the cutoff man's perfect throw to the catcher. That was a big time play in the game.

[Ace Hippie]

Right, however you still try to quantify something that is qualifiers. You can not measure ambition that well.

This is precisely what I mean. Whenever the quantifiable categories don't fit an argument, people will bring up something like 'ambition'. Why do you think Arod, for example, goes to play baseball every day ? He's loaded beyond belief, has a good looking wife and would be in the Hall of Fame if he retired today. Every baseball player has 'ambition'.

Where as my list would have Lou Gehrig or Hank Aaron in that field. ;)

Hank Aaron, maybe, has a case. I don't see how you can give it to Gehrig when Ruth was a direct contemporary, had better batting stats (rates and raw numbers) and was a star pitcher for several years.

ahh but A-Rod is not a leader, and Jeter is.

Yes, but A-Rod is the better player

I think you are confusing a team dynamics with solo performances. I'm not. Jeter is like guys like Rodger Clemens, Yogi Berra they simply motivate those around them to excel.

Of course, this has nothing to do with the fact that Jeter has played with people like Tino Martinez, Paul O'Neill, Gary Sheffield, Jason Giambi, Alex Rodriguez, Jorge Posada, David Justice, Mariano Rivera, Andy Pettite, Roger Clemens, and so on right? :rolleyes:

As for Yogi Berra, uh, take a look at those Yankee teams. I'm pretty sure they didn't need Yogi's "drive factor" to get them to win. They had this other helpful thing known as talent.

[Chewy]

Nice job, hypocrit. a word used out of context... but we can skip that for now.


I never said from the U.S., I said on U.S. teams - aka, in MLB, and not in the Japan leagues, Latin American Leagues, etc. what you think all the Red Socks were grown in Boston?? Better catch up to that tunip truck you jmight want to get back on.
Unless you can prove otherwise all those Nations I have mentioned have boasted MLB players.

You said "the millions of ball players from the whole populous of the planet", which would include other leagues, would it not? huh??


Stop contradicting yourself. I know the subject at hand very well, stop trying to believe that you have any idea what I do or don't know.
You have yet to display that possess this knowledge, or knowledge of the English language for that matter.


Everyone was discussing whether or not Jeter is the best player, and you commented on that discussion. One would assume that you were contributing to the side that thinks that Jeter is the best, considering how highly you spoke of him. So then you just discovered that I didn’t make that claim.. hmm. :rolleyes:

[Weasel]

a word used out of context... but we can skip that for now.

what you think all the Red Socks were grown in Boston?? Better catch up to that tunip truck you jmight want to get back on.
Unless you can prove otherwise all those Nations I have mentioned have boasted MLB players.
huh??


You have yet to display that possess this knowledge, or knowledge of the English language for that matter.

So then you just discovered that I didn’t make that claim.. hmm. :rolleyes:

Did you not read what I said!? I said "ON U.S. TEAMS", which means from any country in the world, but playing in MLB. No shit the Sox have players from other countries, you think I'm a moron. Get your head out of your ass and read what I said.

EDIT: I'm done with this thread. You didn't read what I wrote the first time, or the second time, and you probably still don't get it. I guess you really are Chewy, aren't you?

[Chewy]

Did you not read what I said!? I said "ON U.S. TEAMS", which means from any country in the world, but playing in MLB. No shit the Sox have players from other countries, you think I'm a moron. *bites tongue*

EDIT: I'm done with this thread. You didn't read what I wrote the first time, or the second time, and you probably still don't get it. I guess you really are Chewy, aren't you? yea ok.. bye :wave:


This is precisely what I mean. Whenever the quantifiable categories don't fit an argument, people will bring up something like 'ambition'. Why do you think Arod, for example, goes to play baseball every day ? He's loaded beyond belief, has a good looking wife and would be in the Hall of Fame if he retired today. Every baseball player has 'ambition'. every player has a glove and a bat too some use it better than others. ;)


Hank Aaron, maybe, has a case. I don't see how you can give it to Gehrig when Ruth was a direct contemporary, had better batting stats (rates and raw numbers) and was a star pitcher for several years. Baseball Almanac would say I was not that far off.
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/legendary/lisab100.shtml



Yes, but A-Rod is the better player on paper yes, as a leader no.



Of course, this has nothing to do with the fact that Jeter has played with people like Tino Martinez, Paul O'Neill, Gary Sheffield, Jason Giambi, Alex Rodriguez, Jorge Posada, David Justice, Mariano Rivera, Andy Pettite, Roger Clemens, and so on right? :rolleyes: I'm not claiming it was not a factor but not a complete factor.



As for Yogi Berra, uh, take a look at those Yankee teams. I'm pretty sure they didn't need Yogi's "drive factor" to get them to win. They had this other helpful thing known as talent.
Casey Stengel thought different and once attributed much of his success as a manager to Yogi. There are players that display 'heart' and other players preform better becuase of it... hell didn't you see Rudy?

[Travmire]

I think you are confusing a team dynamics with solo performances. I'm not. Jeter is like guys like Rodger Clemens, Yogi Berra they simply motivate those around them to excel.

I'm not confused about anything. And neither of those players are great examples either, because like Jeter they won when they had talent around them.

Jeter is not a great leader. His leadership doesn't cause pitcher to win 20 games, it doesn't cause players to hit forty homers, and it doesn't win World Series.

When the players around you are great in their own right, it takes no leadership to make them great.

This will be the third time in a row that you've ignored the point that if Jeter were on a different team, he wouldn't have near the amount of glory as he does now.

[Ace Hippie]

every player has a glove and a bat too some use it better than others. ;)

Yes, and ARod has used his glove and bat much better than Jeter has, intangibles aside. How many 40-40 seasons does Jeter have? 50 homer seasons?

Baseball Almanac would say I was not that far off.
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/legendary/lisab100.shtml

Gehrig: .340/.447/.632
Ruth: .342/.474/.690

27 points of OBP difference, 58 points of slugging, that's quite a bit of difference. And Ruth was a starting pitcher, a damn good one. So regardless of what that survey says, and I don't happen to agree with it, it's still Ruth at #1, and he's clearly ahead of Gehrig at least.


on paper yes, as a leader no.

Right, Jeter the great leader who let Arod get hammered by giambi and the press, right? Never mind the fact that the Yankees have a historically great lineup, it's Jeter who's the cause?


I'm not claiming it was not a factor but not a complete factor.

Jeter has been surrounded by HoF caliber players, and near-HoFers. I'd venture to guess that has a lot to do with his success as an 'ambitious leader too'

Casey Stengel thought different and once attributed much of his success as a manager to Yogi. There are players that display 'heart' and other players preform better becuase of it... hell didn't you see Rudy?

"heart". Again, another term thrown around whenever the stats and facts don't back up an argument. Player X only hit .300 with 15 homers while Player Y hit .300 with 40 homers. How does player X get to be better than Player Y? Heart! Ambition!

On Yogi Berra's teams we had:

Joe Gordon (near HOF 2nd baseman)
Phil Rizzuto (HOF shortstop)
Joe DiMaggio (HOF Centerfielder)
Charlie Keller (5 time All-star OF)
Tommy Heinrich (5 time all-star OF)
Allie Reynolds (182 game winner)
Vic Raschi (3 time 20 game winner)
Hank Bauer (3 time all star OF)
Ed Lopat (166 career wins)
Whitey Ford (HOF pitcher)
Gil McDougald (5 time all star)
Mickey Mantle (HOF OF)
Johnny Mize (HOF OF)
Johnny Sain (4 time 20 game winner, reliever with the Yanks)
Bill Skowron (6 time all star 1st baseman)
Enos Slaughter (HOF OF used as a pinch hitter)
Elston Howard (9 time all star)
Roger Maris (4 time all star, 2 time MVP)
Bobby Richardson (7 time all star)
Al Downing (123 career wins, 1639 career strike outs)

Yogi Berra was a great player. Yogi Berra was also just part of a massive collection of talent that dwarfed everyone other than, maybe the Red Sox of the time.

-EDIT-

Here's a list of some of Jeter's teammates too

Mike Stanley (187 homers, .370 OBP as a catcher/DH)
Wade Boggs (HOF)
Tony Fernandez (.288 hitter, 5x AllStar, 4x Gold Glove)
Bernie Williams (5x AllStar, 4x Gold Glove)
Paul O’Neill (5x Allstar)
Ruben Sierra (4x Allstar)
Danny Tartabull (All star, 262 HRs)
Jorge Posada (4x Allstar)
Jack McDowell (2x 20 game winner)
Andy Pettitte (186 wins, 2x 20 wins, 2x all star)
David Cone (194 wins, 2x 20 wins, 2668 Ks, 5x Allstar)
John Wetteland (330 career saves)
Mariano Rivera (413 career saves)
Tino Martinez (339 HRs, 2 time all star)
Darryl Strawberry (335 HRs, ROY, 8 time all star)
Tim Raines (7 time all star)
Cecil Fielder (319 HRs)
Jimmy Key (186 wins, 4 time all star)
Kenny Rogers (207 wins, 4 time all star)
Dwight Gooden (194 wins, ROY, Cy Young, 4 time all star)
David Wells (230 wins, 3 time all star)
Chuck Knoblauch (4 time all star)
Chili Davis (350 HRs, 3 time all star)
Roger Clemens (348 wins, 4604 Ks, 11x AS, 7 CYA)
David Justice (305 HR, 3x AS)
Jose Canseco (462 HR, 6x AS, MVP)
Alfonso Soriano (5x AS, 40-40)
Mike Mussina (239 Wins, 2572 Ks, 5x AS)
Jason Giambi (350 HR, 5x AS, MVP)
Robin Ventura (294 HR, 2x AS, 6x GG)
Raul Mondesi (271 HR, AS, ROY)
Hideki Matsui (2x AS)
Alex Rodriguez (464 HR, 10x AS, 2x GG, 2x MVP)
Kevin Brown (211 wins, 2397 Ks, 6x AS)
Gary Sheffield (455 HR, 9x AS)
Randy Johnson (280 wins, 4544 Ks, 10x AS, 5 CYA)
Johnny Damon (2x AS)
Bobby Abreu (2x AS, GG)

[Chewy]

This will be the third time in a row that you've ignored the point that if Jeter were on a different team, he wouldn't have near the amount of glory as he does now.I addressed it. Look back… and look hard.
I'm not claiming it was not a factor but not a complete factor.


Yes, and ARod has used his glove and bat much better than Jeter has, intangibles aside. How many 40-40 seasons does Jeter have? 50 homer seasons? Again that's not what I'm arguing, you can wave that banner in the air as much as you wish to, I acknowledged the stats difference, care to compare the number of play off wins they ‘lead’ their teams through?

keeping in mind that A-Rod played with,


Edgar Martinez
Jay Buhner
Ken Griffey, Jr.
Paul Sorrento
Luis Sojo
Joey Cora
Randy Johnson
Jamie Moyer
Jeff Fassero
Mike Blowers
Glenallen Hill
Freddy Garcia
John Olerud
Mark McLemore
Mike Cameron
David Bell
Kenny Rogers
Ivan Rodriguez
Rafael Palmeiro
... and a crap load of others... A-Rod has been immerse with talented people around him and never noted as a leader.





Gehrig: .340/.447/.632
Ruth: .342/.474/.690

27 points of OBP difference, 58 points of slugging, that's quite a bit of difference. And Ruth was a starting pitcher, a damn good one. So regardless of what that survey says, and I don't happen to agree with it, it's still Ruth at #1, and he's clearly ahead of Gehrig at least.




Right, Jeter the great leader who let Arod get hammered by giambi and the press, right? Never mind the fact that the Yankees have a historically great lineup, it's Jeter who's the cause?




Jeter has been surrounded by HoF caliber players, and near-HoFers. I'd venture to guess that has a lot to do with his success as an 'ambitious leader too'



"heart". Again, another term thrown around whenever the stats and facts don't back up an argument. Player X only hit .300 with 15 homers while Player Y hit .300 with 40 homers. How does player X get to be better than Player Y? Heart! Ambition!

On Yogi Berra's teams we had:

Joe Gordon (near HOF 2nd baseman)
Phil Rizzuto (HOF shortstop)
Joe DiMaggio (HOF Centerfielder)
Charlie Keller (5 time All-star OF)
Tommy Heinrich (5 time all-star OF)
Allie Reynolds (182 game winner)
Vic Raschi (3 time 20 game winner)
Hank Bauer (3 time all star OF)
Ed Lopat (166 career wins)
Whitey Ford (HOF pitcher)
Gil McDougald (5 time all star)
Mickey Mantle (HOF OF)
Johnny Mize (HOF OF)
Johnny Sain (4 time 20 game winner, reliever with the Yanks)
Bill Skowron (6 time all star 1st baseman)
Enos Slaughter (HOF OF used as a pinch hitter)
Elston Howard (9 time all star)
Roger Maris (4 time all star, 2 time MVP)
Bobby Richardson (7 time all star)
Al Downing (123 career wins, 1639 career strike outs)

Yogi Berra was a great player. Yogi Berra was also just part of a massive collection of talent that dwarfed everyone other than, maybe the Red Sox of the time.

-EDIT-

Here's a list of some of Jeter's teammates too

Mike Stanley (187 homers, .370 OBP as a catcher/DH)
Wade Boggs (HOF)
Tony Fernandez (.288 hitter, 5x AllStar, 4x Gold Glove)
Bernie Williams (5x AllStar, 4x Gold Glove)
Paul O’Neill (5x Allstar)
Ruben Sierra (4x Allstar)
Danny Tartabull (All star, 262 HRs)
Jorge Posada (4x Allstar)
Jack McDowell (2x 20 game winner)
Andy Pettitte (186 wins, 2x 20 wins, 2x all star)
David Cone (194 wins, 2x 20 wins, 2668 Ks, 5x Allstar)
John Wetteland (330 career saves)
Mariano Rivera (413 career saves)
Tino Martinez (339 HRs, 2 time all star)
Darryl Strawberry (335 HRs, ROY, 8 time all star)
Tim Raines (7 time all star)
Cecil Fielder (319 HRs)
Jimmy Key (186 wins, 4 time all star)
Kenny Rogers (207 wins, 4 time all star)
Dwight Gooden (194 wins, ROY, Cy Young, 4 time all star)
David Wells (230 wins, 3 time all star)
Chuck Knoblauch (4 time all star)
Chili Davis (350 HRs, 3 time all star)
Roger Clemens (348 wins, 4604 Ks, 11x AS, 7 CYA)
David Justice (305 HR, 3x AS)
Jose Canseco (462 HR, 6x AS, MVP)
Alfonso Soriano (5x AS, 40-40)
Mike Mussina (239 Wins, 2572 Ks, 5x AS)
Jason Giambi (350 HR, 5x AS, MVP)
Robin Ventura (294 HR, 2x AS, 6x GG)
Raul Mondesi (271 HR, AS, ROY)
Hideki Matsui (2x AS)
Alex Rodriguez (464 HR, 10x AS, 2x GG, 2x MVP)
Kevin Brown (211 wins, 2397 Ks, 6x AS)
Gary Sheffield (455 HR, 9x AS)
Randy Johnson (280 wins, 4544 Ks, 10x AS, 5 CYA)
Johnny Damon (2x AS)
Bobby Abreu (2x AS, GG) [/QUOTE]

[Ace Hippie]

Again that's not what I'm arguing, you can wave that banner in the air as much as you wish to, I acknowledged the stats difference, care to compare the number of play off wins they ‘lead’ their teams through?

This is getting ridiculous. You're saying we should ignore the mammoth statistical differences between ARod and Jeter because of the nebulous and unprovable idea that Jeter somehow 'willed' the Yankees to all those playoff wins. Your own evidence is completely pathetic, honestly, compared to what I've posted.

keeping in mind that A-Rod played with,
Edgar Martinez
Jay Buhner
Ken Griffey, Jr.
Paul Sorrento
Luis Sojo
Joey Cora
Randy Johnson
Jamie Moyer
Jeff Fassero
Mike Blowers
Glenallen Hill
Freddy Garcia
John Olerud
Mark McLemore
Mike Cameron
David Bell
Kenny Rogers
Ivan Rodriguez
Rafael Palmeiro
... and a crap load of others... A-Rod has been immerse with talented people around him and never noted as a leader.

Immersed with talent? Are you serious? Glenallen Hill (also on the Yanks, and I didn't even mention him)? Mike Blowers? Joey Cora, most famous for corking his bat and still sucking? C'mon Chewy, this is ridiculous. You're going to look at that list of talent and compare it to the Berra or Jeter lists and say it's even in the same ballpark? I'd like to think this is some kind of perverse joke.

Count the number of all-star appearances, gold gloves, statistical standards met, whatever, it's not even close. Jeter's "leadership" and "ambition" is largely a product of the fact he's been on some of the most talented teams in baseball history, including the team that (briefly) held the record for most wins in the regular season.

[AsHopeDies]

This is all completely beyond the point anyway. You can argue until you are blue in the face that Jeter is a really good leader, that still, in no way-shape-or-form makes him the best all around player in the game hands down. It's laughable at best. And the fact that someone's argument for that claim would be about intangibles just proves the fact that it's offbase. Jeter is a standout player for many reasons and he's on the most talked about team in all of sports in America, but I'm sorry, one of those reasons is not that he is the best all around player in the game hands down.

[a7x1337]

yea ok.. bye :wave:

ban him :D

as for the jeter argument, it's pointless. the people who hate the yankees dont have him, so they're jealous and they hate him and/or call him overrated

[AsHopeDies]

as for the jeter argument, it's pointless. the people who hate the yankees dont have him, so they're jealous and they hate him and/or call him overrated

dude, talk about pointless.

When faced with a laundry list of reasons why he isn't the "best all around player in the game hands down" all you can resort to is calling people haters? I think it takes quite a large leap to have someone make such a claim, then have people refute it, and then to respond by calling them jealous and haters. We don't claim he's overrated because we hate him, we claim he's overrated because people claim he's the best overall player in all of baseball, and that's just rediculous.

When you get down to it, it has nothing to do with him, and everything to do with fanboys like yourself. He goes out there day in and day out and plays, he gets the job done and has plenty to show for it. I can't blame a guy for that, he's doing his job, and he does it well. He's not claiming to be the best all around player in the league. But when people make such claims, and call his sometimes routine/sometimes just above average plays the best plays in the history of the game. It leads nonfanboys to call bullshit. And the worst part is that many of us have said he's a damn good player and has done a shit load in his career, but he just isn't the "best all around player", and you still feel the need to argue that.

[Chewy]

This is getting ridiculous. You're saying we should ignore the mammoth statistical differences between ARod and Jeter because of the nebulous and unprovable idea that Jeter somehow 'willed' the Yankees to all those playoff wins. Your own evidence is completely pathetic, honestly, compared to what I've posted.I provide examples where A-Rod played with talented players and yielded squat, he simply is not a leader. You on the other claim that A-Rod stats and performance endows him with greatness… it not a true comment, there are simply good leaders and stats do not reflect those skills … as I have stated a number of times… and you still insist on viewing stats only.



Immersed with talent? Are you serious? Glenallen Hill (also on the Yanks, and I didn't even mention him)? Mike Blowers? Joey Cora, most famous for corking his bat and still sucking? C'mon Chewy, this is ridiculous. You're going to look at that list of talent and compare it to the Berra or Jeter lists and say it's even in the same ballpark? I'd like to think this is some kind of perverse joke.Joke that was the best run the Mariners had at making it to the World Series in their club history?? And they lacked that chemistry … that leadership.

That’s the thing about baseball you can place a shit load of marquee players on the roster but at the end of the season the team that gels and gets focused takes the prize, statically the Yanks should have won the WS every year in the last 5 years. You can not Quantify, Qualitive factors. ...... as I keep saying.



Count the number of all-star appearances, gold gloves, statistical standards met, whatever, it's not even close. Jeter's "leadership" and "ambition" is largely a product of the fact he's been on some of the most talented teams in baseball history, including the team that (briefly) held the record for most wins in the regular season. And yet all these prim donnas seem to be ok with him on that team holding them down….. why is that? Maybe he brings an element to the game they respect? :idea:

[AsHopeDies]

Joke that was the best run the Mariners had at making it to the World Series in their club history?? And they lacked that chemistry … that leadership.

statically the Yanks should have won the WS every year in the last 5 years. You can not Quantify, Qualitive factors. ...... as I keep saying.


I know I'm not specifically involved in this argument, but aren't you contradicting yourself to an extreme extent with these two statements?

If Seattle was full of talent and they couldn't win the World Series, and you claim that is for a lack of leadership. Then, as you point out, the Yankees have the talent to win the series every year in the last 5 years, what was it they were missing? That chemistry? That leadership?

[Chewy]

I know I'm not specifically involved in this argument, but aren't you contradicting yourself to an extreme extent with these two statements?

If Seattle was full of talent and they couldn't win the World Series, and you claim that is for a lack of leadership. Then, as you point out, the Yankees have the talent to win the series every year in the last 5 years, what was it they were missing? That chemistry? That leadership?

Not at all, my claim is talent alone and leadership alone do not yield success. In concert they do.

[Devastation]

I'm pissed off.

I was hoping for a Padres-Tigers World Series, a replay of 1984 if you will, but thanks to the two teams I hate most, it seems it's not going to happen.

A pox upon Derek Jeter!

[DontBottaMe13]

lol i hate that jeter made a throwing error in the first inning after all of this shit but whatever i still stand by my opinion...jeter is the man


edit: and fucked up a bunt

[a7x1337]

dude, talk about pointless.

When faced with a laundry list of reasons why he isn't the "best all around player in the game hands down" all you can resort to is calling people haters? I think it takes quite a large leap to have someone make such a claim, then have people refute it, and then to respond by calling them jealous and haters. We don't claim he's overrated because we hate him, we claim he's overrated because people claim he's the best overall player in all of baseball, and that's just rediculous.

i didn't actually read the latter half of the argument, to be honest. i've had my fair share of 'jeter iz overrated cause he doesnt hit 60 hrs oritz is osoos much better!!!11'

talent wise, a-rod's probably better. but because of a-rods, er, mental problems, jeter is the most important player to the team, and when you're the most important player to the new york yankees, and you singlehandedly determine their regular/postseason outcome, odds are you're the mvp.

edit: speaking of which, son of a bitch a-rod just got caught looking with two outs and the bases loaded

[AsHopeDies]

Not at all, my claim is talent alone and leadership alone do not yield success. In concert they do.

Correct me if I'm wrong but haven't you also claimed that Jeter's skill as a leader is unmatched? Thus making him one of the best players in the league? If so, then for the past five years when their talent has obviously been superior, they must have been missing the leadership to push them over the top. Point being, if Jeter was the leader you claim he is, then they would have won a World Series in the past 5 years.


i didn't actually read the latter half of the argument, to be honest. i've had my fair share of 'jeter iz overrated cause he doesnt hit 60 hrs oritz is osoos much better!!!11'

talent wise, a-rod's probably better. but because of a-rods, er, mental problems, jeter is the most important player to the team, and when you're the most important player to the new york yankees, and you singlehandedly determine their regular/postseason outcome, odds are you're the mvp.

Like I said, it's fanboys that make him overrated.

[a7x1337]

Like I said, it's fanboys that make him overrated.
oh, i am CERTAINLY not a jeter fan boy. or i wasnt, anyway. i didnt really love the guy until this year. the past couple of years, i would've agreed with you when you said he's overrated.

but this year has been his best since the 90s, and when Jeter's at his best, then yes - he's probably one of, if not THE best player in the league

[Chewy]

talent wise, a-rod's probably better. but because of a-rods, er, mental problems, jeter is the most important player to the team, and when you're the most important player to the new york yankees, and you singlehandedly determine their regular/postseason outcome, odds are you're the mvp.
Take a look at the performance for the Yanks when Jeter is not in the line up, after he blew out his shoulder and was out for a month at the beginning of the 2003 season, the Yanks April their WP without Jeter was a respectable 0.538 when he returned it was (May)0.600, that even crept up to (July) 0.679. Anyone that can not see that ‘clutch’ games are the Yankees trade mark is blind they won 30 of the 48 1 run ball games that season and ‘clutch’ players like Jeter are indispensable.

Edit: It's a toss up between God and Jeter after all everyone knows that God is a Yankee (http://www.artbymarcogennaro.com/paintings_full/sports/godyankee.html):p

[AsHopeDies]

and when Jeter's at his best, then yes - he's probably one of, if not THE best player in the league

It's a toss up between God and Jeter

I rest my case.

[a7x1337]

It's a toss up between God and Jeter
sigged :D..

[Jimothy51]

I find it funny how Jeter fucked up a routine grounder and a bunt today.

Anyways, I believe if Jeter wins the MVP this year it will be because it is a Lifetime Achievement award, not because he deserved it. Manny's never won an MVP, but he's portrayed in the media as a lazy slob (although he deserve some of that) Jeter is shown as a saint. Honestly Morneau really should win it. And Miguel Cabrera should win it every year for the next 15 years.

Oh yeah, I can be a Red Sox fanboy and say Roger Clemens and Pedro Martinez are the two greatest pitchers of all-time. Roger Clemens because he's Roger Clemens, and Pedro Martinez because he has the highest ERA+ of all-time at 160. Lefty Grove is next at 148. By comparison, Yankee fanboys have been splooging over Mussina's season, and his ERA+ was 125. Pedro's was 98 this year. I think he was at 165 before this year. (fucking ridiculous) 125 and 160 are more than a full point of ERA apart.

[Ace Hippie]

I provide examples where A-Rod played with talented players and yielded squat, he simply is not a leader. You on the other claim that A-Rod stats and performance endows him with greatness… it not a true comment, there are simply good leaders and stats do not reflect those skills … as I have stated a number of times… and you still insist on viewing stats only.

Per 162 games, Alex Rodriguez has averaged .305/.386/.575, 43 homers, 125 RBI, along with 126 runs, and 22 steals. Derek Jeter has averaged .317/.388/.463, 18 homers, 83 RBI, 123 runs, and 24 stolen bases. They are not comparable players. ARod matches all of Derek Jeter's top categories and dwarfs him powerwise. You're telling me that the "leadership" (which you haven't proven even a speck of) makes up for 25 homers, 42 RBI and 112 points of slugging a year? Nonsense. You can't even provide any actual evidence of leadership or ambition beyond vague statements and rhetoric.

Joke that was the best run the Mariners had at making it to the World Series in their club history?? And they lacked that chemistry … that leadership.

And they also lacked the talent the Yankees did. Of course, that is apparently ARod's fault while any successes the Yankees had were all due to Jeter. Ridiculous. It's all ARod's fault that Mariners' management decided to do stupid things like trade real talent for Heathcliff Slocumb. It's Arod's fault that Dan Wilson was kept years after he was remotely useful. It's Arod's fault that Texas didn't sign more pitching instead of signing old and declining veterans like Ken Caminiti and Andres Galaragga?

That’s the thing about baseball you can place a shit load of marquee players on the roster but at the end of the season the team that gels and gets focused takes the prize, statically the Yanks should have won the WS every year in the last 5 years. You can not Quantify, Qualitive factors. ...... as I keep saying.

Nonsense. The Yankees offense has been fine, the Yankees pitching has struggled over the past few years. Where was Derek Jeter's leadership then?


And yet all these prim donnas seem to be ok with him on that team holding them down….. why is that? Maybe he brings an element to the game they respect? :idea:

Again, you make an 'argument' that has no factual basis, no evidence, nothing. It's a complete cop-out because you will repeat this nonsense till you are blue in the face without even trying to demonstrate any validity in it. You're telling me that Jeter is somehow the only reason the Yankees can keep it together? If so, why hasn't his "ambition", and his "leadership" led to more titles? Funny thing is he seems to only have his ambition and leadership leading to titles when he's surrounded by massive amounts of talent both on the mound and at the plate.

Not at all, my claim is talent alone and leadership alone do not yield success. In concert they do.

And, of course, the Yankees' leadership was solely due to Derek Jeter. I'm sure the other people I've listed had absolutely nothing to do with it (oh, except Paul O'Neill was constantly referred to as the heart and guts of those Yankees teams. Eek, that doesn't fit your theory).

talent wise, a-rod's probably better. but because of a-rods, er, mental problems, jeter is the most important player to the team, and when you're the most important player to the new york yankees, and you singlehandedly determine their regular/postseason outcome, odds are you're the mvp.

You don't think ARods 120+ RBIs a year just might change the course of a season? Again, same deal - can't explain away 25 homers/42 RBI more a season? Just put it down to not being 'clutch', not being a 'leader', whatever. Of course, the fact that the Yankees haven't won a series in years somehow doesn't play a role in these arguments.

but this year has been his best since the 90s, and when Jeter's at his best, then yes - he's probably one of, if not THE best player in the league

The best player in a single year is the MVP. The best player in the league overall is the one who performs year in and year out. ARod's performance dwarfs Jeter's, and it's not even close. He's also done it without as much talent, worse pitching, less talented managers, stupid general managers (Seattle trading Varitek, Lowe, Jose Cruz Jr, etc. for scrubs like Heathcliff Slocumb and Paul Splojaric) and he's a better defensive shortstop. Like I said, for me Jeter = MVP this year, ARod = clearly best player in MLB.

Take a look at the performance for the Yanks when Jeter is not in the line up, after he blew out his shoulder and was out for a month at the beginning of the 2003 season, the Yanks April their WP without Jeter was a respectable 0.538 when he returned it was (May)0.600, that even crept up to (July) 0.679. Anyone that can not see that ‘clutch’ games are the Yankees trade mark is blind they won 30 of the 48 1 run ball games that season and ‘clutch’ players like Jeter are indispensable.

Are you really sure about that?

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/2003_sched.shtml

In April they finished 20-6 (.769) plus they had a win in March. After May they were 32-23 (.582). It was after June they were at .634. Their winning percentage dropped after July - they went 14-10 that month.

Also, they were not 30-18 in 1 run games that season. They were 22-14, still really good but not quite as good as you claim, and your numbers are incorrect. I would also venture to guess that Jeter was not solely responsible for that record.

Lastly, there's the issue of being clutch, which is being thrown about in the way all Jeter fans love to. Is it somehow 'unclutch' to hit a 3 run homer that puts your team up 5-0 in the 3rd inning, when the game ends 5-3? According to this definition it is, and that is patently ridiculous.

To sum up the statistical argument

EQA (Equivalent Average): Arod (.319) beats Jeter (.301)
WARP (Wins above replacement player)): Arod (126.7) beats Jeter 86.9

Arod has hit .305/.388/573 over his career, Jeter .317/.388/.463. ARod has 28 more sacrifice flies than "clutch" Jeter (65-37). ARod has only 6 more GIDPs than Jeter despite having more at-bats and far more at-bats with runners on base. Arod is just as good as Jeter at stealing percentage (80% for both). ARod has 6 seasons of 10 or more wins above replacement value. Jeter has none.

Do I think Jeter has certain intangibles? Yes. Do I think it's anyway comparable to being vastly outhit and being a much inferior defensive shortstop? No, and continuing to pretend Jeter is so obviously a better player is ridiculous. Jeter's had more talent, Joe Torre, better pitching staffs, the New York hype machine and Brian Cashman instead of the vaguely retarded Mariners' and Rangers' front office. Those are his clear and demonstratible advantages.

[Jimothy51]

To sum up the statistical argument (offensive only)

EQA (Equivalent Average): Arod (.319) beats Jeter (.301)
WARP (Wins above replacement player)): Arod (126.7) beats Jeter 86.9

Kind of being picky here, but I'm pretty sure WARP facotrs in defense. VORP is the stat that measures offense. But I agree that EQA is the best way to determine a player's offense. This is the stat that backs up my argument that Jeff Francouer is a below average player.

Also this "clutch"/"leadership" argument is kind of silly. The only way we will know who the leader is in the Yankees' clubhouse would be if were actually there. We're not. It is impossible to tell. And anybody can get a hit in a "clutch" situation. It is those that repeat the skill, like Ortiz, that are labeled as clutch hitters.

Edit: I like having a mostly intelligent conversation with you guys. I'm not use to this with ShortyCock around.

[a7x1337]

son of a bitch yankees need to start hitting

edit: if a-rod hits a home run here, i'll masturbate to his picture later. seriously.

editedit: zumaya is a faggot

editeditedit: bruney kicks ass

[atreyu_2020]

You can write a novel with this Jeter talk in this thread.

[Travmire]

I'm pissed off.

I was hoping for a Padres-Tigers World Series, a replay of 1984 if you will, but thanks to the two teams I hate most, it seems it's not going to happen.

A pox upon Derek Jeter!

I noticed we hate the two same teams the most. A pox upon Pujols as well!

Honestly Morneau really should win it.

If I had a vote, he would get it. Numbers alone deserve it, and if you want clutch and leadership, just look at what he and the Twins did at the end of the year.



I was watching something about the best plays in baseball history, and one of them was Carlton Fisk's home run in the World Series. Does anyone think this is a little overrated? Yeah, it was the world series, but it's not like he's the only one to ever hit a walk off in that situation, plus it was game six, not seven, and the Red Sox still lost the series. The only reason people remember it is because he was waving to make it stay fair. Does anyone think this is an overrated play?

[Weasel]

Take a look at the performance for the Yanks when Jeter is not in the line up, after he blew out his shoulder and was out for a month at the beginning of the 2003 season, the Yanks April their WP without Jeter was a respectable 0.538 when he returned it was (May)0.600, that even crept up to (July) 0.679. Anyone that can not see that ‘clutch’ games are the Yankees trade mark is blind they won 30 of the 48 1 run ball games that season and ‘clutch’ players like Jeter are indispensable.

Edit: It's a toss up between God and Jeter after all everyone knows that God is a Yankee (http://www.artbymarcogennaro.com/paintings_full/sports/godyankee.html):p

I guess you never noticed that the Yankees always start their season slowly. And it's not just because of Jeter. Their offense usually takes a while to get going, with or without him.

[Ace Hippie]

Bottom of the 9th for the Yankees, they've got Matsui on first, Posada up and nobody out, with Todd "I don't want a gay for a teammate" Jones on the mound.

[a7x1337]

Bottom of the 9th for the Yankees, they've got Matsui on first, Posada up and nobody out, with Todd "I don't want a gay for a teammate" Jones on the mound.
what is this gay thing you speak of?

posada struck out, partially due to a bullshit first strike.

cano up now

edit: fucking a, this ump sucks

[Ace Hippie]

what is this gay thing you speak of?

posada struck out, partially due to a bullshit first strike.

cano up now

Todd Jones was asked about what he'd do/think if he had a teammate who came out of the closet, and he responded;

"I wouldn't want a gay guy being around me," Jones told the paper. "It's got nothing to do with me being scared. That's the problem: All these people say he's got all these rights. Yeah, he's got rights or whatever, but he shouldn't walk around proud. It's like he's rubbing it in our face. 'See me, Hear me roar.' We're not trying to be close-minded, but then again, why be confrontational when you don't really have to be?"

[a7x1337]

fuckin tigers

[Weasel]

Yanks lose 4-3.

[AsHopeDies]

too bad jeter didn't single handedly win that game like he usually does

[Travmire]

too bad jeter didn't single handedly win that game like he usually does

I'm shocked. Jeter never, NEVER loses play off games, and the Yankees ALWAYS win one run ball games.

It must be that fucking A-Rod, he must have been distracting Jeter from his leadership duties.

[AsHopeDies]

still though, he's the best all around throwing erroring bunt fuck uping player in the league, hands down.

[navid]

hmm, baseballs gay, but go mets.

[DontBottaMe13]

see everyone on the yankees sucks when jeter has a bad game lol...and yeah you guys are just lucky that he had his bad game immediately following our debate cuz theyre few and far between

[Weasel]

see everyone on the yankees sucks when jeter has a bad game lol...and yeah you guys are just lucky that he had his bad game immediately following our debate cuz theyre few and far between

Like that time he had a 19 game hitless streak? Haha.

[AsHopeDies]

see everyone on the yankees sucks when jeter has a bad game lol...and yeah you guys are just lucky that he had his bad game immediately following our debate cuz theyre few and far between

http://www.stcroixrods.com/

You should check out these rods, they may assist in your reeling.

[atreyu_2020]

WOO, I'm pulling for the Tigers to pull out the series.

[Ace Hippie]

Postseason hitting:
Player A: .307/.379/.463
Player B: .305/.393/.534

With Runners on:
Player A: .321/.401/.445
Player B: .311/.393/.580

W/RISP:
Player A: .307/.405/.433
Player B: .303/.398/.550

W/RISP and 2 outs
Player A: .308/.413/.439
Player B: .270/.394/.458

Bases Loaded:
Player A: .348/.411/.437
Player B: .338/.406/.633

Men on, 2 outs:
Player A: .310/.400/.446
Player B: .282/.389/.528

Man on 3rd, <2 outs
Player A: .372/.422/.492
Player B: .361/.390/.633

Player A is Derek Jeter, Captain Clutch. Player B is Alex Rodriguez, the choker/most unclutch player in baseball. Hmm.

[Chewy]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/2003_sched.shtml

In April they finished 20-6 (.769) plus they had a win in March. After May they were 32-23 (.582). It was after June they were at .634. Their winning percentage dropped after July - they went 14-10 that month.

Also, they were not 30-18 in 1 run games that season. They were 22-14, still really good but not quite as good as you claim, and your numbers are incorrect. I would also venture to guess that Jeter was not solely responsible for that record. I'll one to admit I'm wrong when I'm wrong Ace I had the wrong season stats for whatever reason I had quoted 2001 stats (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teamstats/schedule.php?y=2001&t=NYA)for some reason.I try and pride myself on accurate information as you know, I apologize for misrepresenting that information it was an oversight and not intentionally meant to mislead poster. Thank-you for correcting me.

I guess you never noticed that the Yankees always start their season slowly. And it's not just because of Jeter. Their offense usually takes a while to get going, with or without him.Yeah it's an oversight of mine...:rolleyes: no wait I'm pretty sure I mentioned that they were a team that you can never rule out.

[sinner78]

friggin san diego.
I thought their peavy/wells/young/williams lineup backed by the quality bullpen of meredith/linebrink/hoffman would take them through.
they are done and dusted.

[AsHopeDies]

"A shocker in the Bronx."

The quote from ESPN, or should I say HYPE, the collective media blowjob of this team is revolting. Why exactly is it a shocker that a team like the Tigers beat the Yankees?

[a7x1337]

"A shocker in the Bronx."

The quote from ESPN, or should I say HYPE, the collective media blowjob of this team is revolting. Why exactly is it a shocker that a team like the Tigers beat the Yankees?

the yankees had about a dozen and a half chances to win that game.

it's a shock that they could suck so much.

[AsHopeDies]

It's only a shock to journalists and Yankees fans.

[a7x1337]

so yeah, what's with the twins pretty much sucking?

[beerisgood]

so yeah, what's with the twins pretty much sucking?

Now that's a good question... I can't believe they lost 2 at home to Oakland. Especially the Santana start. I figured the Twinkies to win it all this year.

[Weasel]

It's only a shock to journalists and Yankees fans.

Bahahahahaha. So true.

so yeah, what's with the twins pretty much sucking?

Well, let's see. Their starting pitching sucks, and they're probably hitting a slump after their late-season surge. That, plus the A's fucking rock.

[a7x1337]

Their starting pitching sucks
:squint: what did i miss?

[YankeesSuck]

so yeah, what's with the twins pretty much sucking?
Twins are done back when the Red Sox were done 2-0 to Oakland in the ALDS, then came back to win it. They lost the first 2 in Oakland then came home. Minnesota failed to win at home now they have to go to Oakland which is why they won't come back.

[Chewy]

It's only a shock to journalists and Yankees fans.

or maybe winning is an expectation for the Yankees, let’s face it the Yankees when ever they are dismissed in the postseason is a shock.

[AsHopeDies]

to journalists and Yankees fans...yes

[tonythetiger]

If you guys would have been in Busch Stadium on OCt 1st, you would know that the cards are going to the World Series. We had a slump and now we are coming back strong.

[Shorty|*|RocK89]

I want to see another Subway Series.

[tonythetiger]

Let's just hope none of the california teams make it. Staying up till 1am to watch the world series isn't fun.

[Chewy]

to journalists and Yankees fans...yes

So other ball fans don't see the Yankees as a huge contenting team? :rolleyes:

Let's just hope none of the california teams make it. Staying up till 1am to watch the world series isn't fun.

well unless you live in that time zone... we tend to like it. ;)

Nothing like getting home from work to find out that you team lost an hour ago.

[a7x1337]

so i say a's over tigers in 6

damn yankees.

[YankeesSuck]

Kenny Rogers shut them down, that's not easy to do.

[Owned]

:cool: :raiseeyeb Kenny Rogers shut them down, that's not easy to do.


Thank you for giving credit to Detroit.

DETROIT BITCHES DETROIT BITCHES
DETROIT BITCHES
DETROIT BITCHES
DETROIT BITCHES so i say a's over tigers in 6

damn yankees.

PS YOU SUCK PENIS ^^^:cool:

Ohh I know why;

2000 civic si, a7x1337, atreyu_2020, Chewy, Darkness, DontBottaMe13, KakUMei, MiKe, poopchow, Shorty|*|RocK89, sweet, whitey_ringo, Wu-tang, ZX-6RR Ninja

[DetachablePenis]

Goooo Tigers!!!!

[a7x1337]

PS YOU SUCK PENIS ^^^:cool:

Ohh I know why;

2000 civic si, a7x1337, atreyu_2020, Chewy, Darkness, DontBottaMe13, KakUMei, MiKe, poopchow, Shorty|*|RocK89, sweet, whitey_ringo, Wu-tang, ZX-6RR Ninja
...uh, what? :squint:

[Jimothy51]

The Tigers have to win tonight or else they will be huge underdogs in Game 5. Bonderman has to keep the momentum going because the Yankees just aren't hitting right now. I think they had a baserunner on every inning and they got shutout. I see Wright going 6 giving up 3 runs and the bullpen giving up 1. So if Bonderman pitches like he can, and Zumaya and Jones come in, the Tigers should be on to Oakland.

[drezzit]

If Yankees get knocked out, I'd say Oakland or Mets have the best bet at the World Series.

They got good offense and pitching... Detroit.. their offense is consistent but not good enough I think.

[Weasel]

I'm going to laugh if the Yankees lose, especially after people here hyped them up. Where's Jeter's leadership now?

[Jimothy51]

A-Rod is hitting 8th today. It seems more likely that he will get traded this offseason.

[STiSchucky]

:)

how you doin boys

[Chewy]

Where's Jeter's leadership now?
I'm thinking the corner of E. Montclam and Brush St.:D


You really can not count the Yankees out until they are done and buried, but us Yankees fans do remember that famous choke they took. I guess that is why they call it anyone’s ball game. ;)

[DetachablePenis]

Fuck the Yankees. This year is all about Detroit.

[drezzit]

No, this year is all about the Kansas City Royals!

[atreyu_2020]

The best team money can buy is about to bite the big bazooka.

[Devastation]

Thank God.

[Just Spurplin]

Im really hoping Detroit can pull this off. Its just been such a depressing year of sports for us. Having the best recs in both basketball and hockey, and then losing both of them, that just wasnt too cool. Winning this would be pretty fucking sweet.

But, while I am a Detroit fan, all you people saying the Yankees suck... thats just fucking fucking stupid. I dont like em that much, but you have to be an idiot to not recognize them as one of the best teams in baseball. People calling them overrated? How is it over rated to call the team with the best rec for so damn long the best team in the League. Yeah they might not win the series EVERY year, but they win it a hell of a lot more often then any of the teams that you guys claim are better then them.

[atreyu_2020]

But, while I am a Detroit fan, all you people saying the Yankees suck... thats just fucking fucking stupid. I dont like em that much, but you have to be an idiot to not recognize them as one of the best teams in baseball. People calling them overrated? How is it over rated to call the team with the best rec for so damn long the best team in the League. Yeah they might not win the series EVERY year, but they win it a hell of a lot more often then any of the teams that you guys claim are better then them.

Overrated as in they're the best team money can buy and they cant do shit with it. They are one of the best teams, but unlike other great teams they didnt start from scratch, they buy out the best players on the market just about every year...best team money can buy.

[Devastation]

They are the greatest major sports franchise of all time in the United States. No other baseball team has more than nine World Series championships, 17 shy of their 26.

The only major league team in any North American sport that comes close is the Montreal Canadiens, who have 24 Stanley Cups.

The Yankees are the pinnacle of Major League Baseball.


That said, if you root for the Yankees, and you're not from the Tri-State Area, or have some ties to the area or the organization, then you are un-American.

[YankeesSuck]

Ha I love it, another playoff year for Arod. Another year he does jack shit. How much longer they going to put up with his ability to do crap come October?

[bluesheep]

Ahaha, Yankees are done, thank God...

[Jimothy51]

Congratulations Detroit Tigers. That was fucking great.

[AsHopeDies]

So other ball fans don't see the Yankees as a huge contenting team? :rolleyes:


In a word...no.

They haven't done shit in a while, and it appears the trend continues.

Wow...shocking

[goatwalker]

YES!!! The Yanks are eliminated, expect some big changes next year. Maybe George will finally figure out that just because a player does good for one team does not mean he will do good on his team.

[Chewy]

In a word...no.

They haven't done shit in a while, and it appears the trend continues.

Wow...shocking
Done shit? They make it to the play offs rather regularly. There are only a handful of teams that can claim that.

[Devastation]

The Yankees have won their division every year since 1998.

The only team that can best that is the Atlanta Braves, who won 14 straight division titles.

Still, the Yankees did better than that, because the Braves could only manage one World Series championship (1995) during the height of their dynasty.

They lost the next season in the World Series, giving the Yankees their first World Series Title since 1978.

[Chewy]

The Yankees have won their division every year since 1998.

The only team that can best that is the Atlanta Braves, who won 14 straight division titles.

Still, the Yankees did better than that, because the Braves could only manage one World Series championship (1995) during the height of their dynasty.

They lost the next season in the World Series, giving the Yankees their first World Series Title since 1978. Yeah but gloating is rather passé, Yankees are a team with class and it dies the fans good to emulate that and not wave that around too much. They choked this year as they did last. Again I’ll point out it’s expected of them to perform well, it’s not a ‘miracle’ or a ‘Cinderella story’ it is an expectation. This year they failed to meet the expectations in the post season. Big name players are no replacement for heart and soul.

[Devastation]

I'm not gloating; I hate the Yankees.

I'm just stating facts.

[a7x1337]

well, go a's

i dont really give a damn who wins now, as long as it isnt the mets.

at least it's hockey season :p

[Chewy]

I'm not gloating; I hate the Yankees.
I know that. I'm pointing out that the Yankees fans are not gloating and posting those facts. ;)

well, go a's

at least it's hockey season :pI'm with you on that both on the A's and the hockey.

[Devastation]

I know that. I'm pointing out that the Yankees fans are not gloating and posting those facts. ;)

I assumed it was because the average Yankees fan doesn't know how to work Wikipedia. ;)

Forgive me, Oh Hairy One.

Go Athletics!

[Chewy]

I assumed it was because the average Yankees fan doesn't know how to work Wikipedia. ;)

Forgive me, Oh Hairy One.

Go Athletics! There are AVERAGE Yankees fans??

A good friend of mine is a Habs fan he is always reminding us the number of wins they have and how many Stanley Cup appearances they have… Christ one time we went to see the Canucks and the Canadiens play in Vancouver and made some comment about how he expect the beer in the Garage to be served in bottles… as all the Cups were in Montreal.

[TurbulenceXM]

Congratulations N.Y Mets!!!!

[Shorty|*|RocK89]

First thing I feel like throwing up....Second I want to go to A-Rod's house and throw up on him after I scream WTF repeatedly.There is no excuse for sucking and making that much money a year he should have a ring for each year.It's fucking sad that they go this far and then people like Randy Johnson decided pitching good is not important and he felt like playing like shit...we got him for a reason and he sucks balls.What a big fucking mess.I guess im rooting for Oakland now but I most likely won't get around to watching baseball for a while.They really seem to just give up...they did it in 05,04,03,01.I'm not sure what they need to fix but they need to get some real players that can handle pressure and aren't 50 years old.

[sinner78]

First thing I feel like throwing up....Second I want to go to A-Rod's house and throw up on him after I scream WTF repeatedly.There is no excuse for sucking and making that much money a year he should have a ring for each year.It's fucking sad that they go this far and then people like Randy Johnson decided pitching good is not important and he felt like playing like shit...we got him for a reason and he sucks balls.What a big fucking mess.I guess im rooting for Oakland now but I most likely won't get around to watching baseball for a while.They really seem to just give up...they did it in 05,04,03,01.I'm not sure what they need to fix but they need to get some real players that can handle pressure and aren't 50 years old.

all the lineup batted like arod in that last game.
I think the first 5 innings only lasted something like 23 pitches.
the pressure got to them big time and they lost all their patience.
the same lineup slapped the detroit pitching in the regular season.

[Travmire]

I'm glad the Yankee's are gone. I understand their history, but I still say fuck them. I have no reason to root for them, and once again they showed that buying All Stars isn't the way to build a team. (excluding St. Louis/San Diego because that's still to be decided) Look at all of the teams that have advanced. They all have a solid mixture of veterans and young talent. The Yankees just haven't had a farm system.

I do like the huge increase of Tigers fans that came into this discussion after game three.

I'll join everyone else who's team is out and root for the A's. They've always been my favorite AL team, but I don't follow them close enough to care if they do win it all.

Dodgers and Yankees out already, MLB can't be too happy.

[c/newman]

First thing I feel like throwing up....Second I want to go to A-Rod's house and throw up on him after I scream WTF repeatedly.There is no excuse for sucking and making that much money a year he should have a ring for each year.It's fucking sad that they go this far and then people like Randy Johnson decided pitching good is not important and he felt like playing like shit...we got him for a reason and he sucks balls.What a big fucking mess.I guess im rooting for Oakland now but I most likely won't get around to watching baseball for a while.They really seem to just give up...they did it in 05,04,03,01.I'm not sure what they need to fix but they need to get some real players that can handle pressure and aren't 50 years old.

Part of the reason why Beane avoids paying big bucks for 'star' players... Stats never lie but you never know when a player might get married, discover the bottle, or just stop performing... Why spend big bucks when you can produce a stellar player, sign him for 7 years then release him no harm done because you have a new player to take his place. It's worked for the A's... They've made the playoffs 3 times in the last 5 years using this form of management...

And you never know, they have a good a chance as the Tigers, Mets, Cards or Padres of winning the WS this year... Go A's!

[Jimothy51]

Just heard a rumor that Steinbrenner will fire Torre and replace him with Lou Piniella per NY Daily News.

[CheeseMonkeys]

First thing I feel like throwing up....Second I want to go to A-Rod's house and throw up on him after I scream WTF repeatedly.There is no excuse for sucking and making that much money a year he should have a ring for each year.It's fucking sad that they go this far and then people like Randy Johnson decided pitching good is not important and he felt like playing like shit...we got him for a reason and he sucks balls.What a big fucking mess.I guess im rooting for Oakland now but I most likely won't get around to watching baseball for a while.They really seem to just give up...they did it in 05,04,03,01.I'm not sure what they need to fix but they need to get some real players that can handle pressure and aren't 50 years old.

It shouldn't have took you that long to figure out A-rod is not a good help.

[sinner78]

Part of the reason why Beane avoids paying big bucks for 'star' players... Stats never lie but you never know when a player might get married, discover the bottle, or just stop performing... Why spend big bucks when you can produce a stellar player, sign him for 7 years then release him no harm done because you have a new player to take his place. It's worked for the A's... They've made the playoffs 3 times in the last 5 years using this form of management...

And you never know, they have a good a chance as the Tigers, Mets, Cards or Padres of winning the WS this year... Go A's!


oakland had a long stretch of playoff failure until the win over minnesota.
not like their formula has won them anything .But I agree their GM does a good job on a more limited budget .

[Weasel]

First thing I feel like throwing up....Second I want to go to A-Rod's house and throw up on him after I scream WTF repeatedly.There is no excuse for sucking and making that much money a year he should have a ring for each year.It's fucking sad that they go this far and then people like Randy Johnson decided pitching good is not important and he felt like playing like shit...we got him for a reason and he sucks balls.What a big fucking mess.I guess im rooting for Oakland now but I most likely won't get around to watching baseball for a while.They really seem to just give up...they did it in 05,04,03,01.I'm not sure what they need to fix but they need to get some real players that can handle pressure and aren't 50 years old.

Typical spoiled Yankees fan. It's your team's fault that they're paying all these players so much money. A-Rod had no idea how he'd perform when he was traded to the Yankees, and I'm guessing he isn't performing poorly on purpose.

Just heard a rumor that Steinbrenner will fire Torre and replace him with Lou Piniella per NY Daily News.

News flash: New York papers aren't very reliable.

[johnnycupcakes]

wow, yankees lasted long.............................


now, mvp votes will goto the next popular, whos winning.

[drezzit]

GO KANSAS CITY ROYALS lol

Nah.. I'd like to see Oakland beat Detroit the the ALCS game

[Devastation]

At this point I'm hoping for a Tigers-Mets Series, although A's-Mets would be good too.

Just as long as the fricking Cardinals lose, I'll be happy.

[AsHopeDies]

Done shit? They make it to the play offs rather regularly. There are only a handful of teams that can claim that.

Yeah, and the Braves made the playoffs extremely regularly, but on the Championship stage and being considered a "huge contending team", I'd say they've missed the mark on both of those regularly in the recent past.

After the way this season went, with inconsistency being their middle names and Detroit being able to be fairly strong all season, with ups and downs just like the Yankees. I'd say the Tigers beating the Yanks isn't the huge shock that Yankees fans and journalists believe it is. Basically, ask a non-Yankee baseball fan if they were "shocked" by it, and I believe a vast majority would say no. I'm not challenging their skill or their history or anything to that degree. In baseball it's always been the Yankees and then everybody else. But I'll stand by my point that they were overhyped this year and this first round lose is far from "shocking."

[c/newman]

oakland had a long stretch of playoff failure until the win over minnesota.
not like their formula has won them anything .But I agree their GM does a good job on a more limited budget .

Hasn't won us anything? Since 2000 we've gone to the playoffs 5 times and won the AL West 4 times... In light of Beane's (limited isn't the right word) scarce budget... If you don't win your Division or make the wild card, you have no hope of winning the WS and there are numerous teams across all tiers that fail to realize this...

Go A's!

[tonythetiger]

Cards vs Oakland. nuff said

[illin' \/illain]

Cards vs Oakland. nuff said

I would LOVE that outcome but man, the tigers are chewing the athletics necks..wow...it's ugly, the field is covered in blood...I can hardly watch. :eek:

[Devastation]

Personally, I like the prospect of a Tigers-Mets match-up.

However, I still see the Athletics coming back to beat the Tigers.

Detroit relies too much on heavy hitting, and if you're not feeling it one day, you ain't gonna win.

Baseball is such a hard game to call, but I still say A's-Mets World Series, which we'll watch between Torre-Rodriguez Soap Opera spots.

[Travmire]

Personally, I like the prospect of a Tigers-Mets match-up.

However, I still see the Athletics coming back to beat the Tigers.

Detroit relies too much on heavy hitting, and if you're not feeling it one day, you ain't gonna win.

Baseball is such a hard game to call, but I still say A's-Mets World Series, which we'll watch between Torre-Rodriguez Soap Opera spots.

Yep. They've spent more time covering those two people than they have all other three teams combined.

Fucking ESPN.

[a7x1337]

looks like the tigers'll be in the series...

[tonythetiger]

i hates teh rain:wah:

[Travmire]

looks like the tigers'll be in the series...

Edit: Dey is done.

[Mhael'72]

However, I still see the Athletics coming back to beat the Tigers.



No offense, but that isnt happening. the Tigers will make the series, and give the Mets a run for their money.:boink: :boink:

[Joeybits]

Anyone else see the cardinals game last night? Man that was awesome.. So Taguchi hits a HR last inning..

I really thought they would lose that game, i still think their gonna lose the series though.

[Devastation]

No offense, but that isnt happening. the Tigers will make the series, and give the Mets a run for their money.:boink: :boink:

Sure, you say that after the Tigers take a 3-0 lead...

[tonythetiger]

Anyone else see the cardinals game last night? Man that was awesome.. So Taguchi hits a HR last inning..

I really thought they would lose that game, i still think their gonna lose the series though.
that game lasted so long. Plus wtf was up with the camera men? IN the bottom of the 6th they showed some guy putting ketchup on his hotdog for like 5 sec. This last game (game 3) was kinda boring after the 5 runs were hit. oh and we WILL win the series.

[Travmire]

Tigers are on to the series.

The Cards are leading now, can they hang on? I hope not. Fuck the Cardinals.

[a7x1337]

go cardinals! kick the mets' collective asses.

suppan has more home runs and rbis than a-rod does in his last 13 playoff games :uhoh:

[Mhael'72]

Sure, you say that after the Tigers take a 3-0 lead...


Ive said it since may actually...and its not a bold prediction. I was a bit late for this thread, but i have to show my support.

[tonythetiger]

So yesterday I was down at a pregame rally thing for the cardinals and there was this t-shirt saying "The mets are still pond scum" wtf does this mean?

[Devastation]

So yesterday I was down at a pregame rally thing for the cardinals and there was this t-shirt saying "The mets are still pond scum" wtf does this mean?

Yankees fans call Mets fans "pond scum".

[a7x1337]

dammit, 11-3 in the 6th.

series is at 2-2 :(

edit: somebody needs to get that spictastic piece of trash delgado off the steroids.

[runnerunner]

dammit, 11-3 in the 6th.

series is at 2-2 :(

edit: somebody needs to get that spictastic piece of trash delgado off the steroids.

if you take him off then you'll have to take everyone off, leaving just the bat boys... maybe

[tonythetiger]

:wah: With this rain the world series will be delayed until thanksgiving

[a7x1337]

heehee, mets have 3 outs left

[Travmire]

Are the Mets done now?

[a7x1337]

Are the Mets done now?
if carpenter looks at all like himself tomorrow, definitely

[YankeesSuck]

Bye bye Mets, it don't matter for either team though. Nobody is beating the mighty Tigers.

[a7x1337]

yeah, i say tigers in 5, whoever it is

[JerkyMyTurky]

Are the Mets done now?

It's not looking good for the Mets, but I wouldn't say it was done. Game 5 was important for both teams to win, but more so for the Cards, as they would have to 2 games on the road. If Cards want to advance, they better do it in Game 6, as I don't think the Mets will lose a game 7 at home. I still have a hope, even though John Maine is a rookie, I think he will rise up to the occasion and do well. I also think the offense will bounce back at home. Gotta believe!

[Devastation]

I hope and think that the Mets can win two at home.

We'll see what happens tonight.

[Travmire]

Looks like the Mets drew first blood.

[a7x1337]

lmao at belliard body slamming reyes

[Travmire]

lmao at belliard body slamming reyes

Belliard bothers me, because he does not look like he should be in an MLB uniform.

But the Mets are up 2-0 now.

[a7x1337]

damn mets.
3-3 series tie.

[TurbulenceXM]

Belliard bothers me, because he does not look like he should be in an MLB uniform.

Same here, he has this scary ass look.

Mets win 4-2. Gave me a scare at the 9th.

[Travmire]

I don't like either team, but at least they're giving us a good series.

[tonythetiger]

I think it's going to rain again. Cards 3 Mets 3 Rain 3.:banghead:

[Jim Colyer]

The playoffs should be done away with. They take away from the World Series.

[YankeesSuck]

The playoffs should be done away with. They take away from the World Series.
Are you saying there should only be a World Series? Nothing before it.

[tonythetiger]

Are you saying there should only be a World Series? Nothing before it.
Yes he is, further proving that everyone from Tennessee is a moron.

[YankeesSuck]

Yes he is, further proving that everyone from Tennessee is a moron.
ha playoffs would be pointless and not as exciting if it was that way. Red Sox and Yankees could never play in the ALCS again. I know he wouldn't like that. Neither would I. This shouldn't even be discussed lol.

[a7x1337]

lol at the delgado error.

perez has to start screwing up

[TurbulenceXM]

HOLLLLYYY SHIT what a catch.

[tonythetiger]

HOLLLLYYY SHIT what a catch.

FUCKING BULLSHIT, i demand a steroids test now.:wah:

[TurbulenceXM]

Again with the steroids business huh.

edit: Throwing error, ouch

[a7x1337]

suppan rules. the offense has been awful the past two nights, though. except off of wagner, but that doesnt count.

i hope the cards wake up. i couldnt bear to see the mets in the series

[TurbulenceXM]

wha you got against da Mets :confuzed:

[Ganster-T]

wha you got against da Mets :confuzed:

Look at his sig, getting the picture now? :D

[a7x1337]

hate the mets in the regular season, hate them more in the postseason

i also hate how everybody's always 'awww, the mets!' and 'pssh, fuck the yankees' despite the mets have a super-high payroll and "bought" most of THEIR players.
people hate the yankees cause they generally win, not because they have the most expensive team.

edit: HELL YES!!!!!!!!!!

[YankeesSuck]

Bye bye Mets!

[a7x1337]

this rookie closer is making me nervous

edit: what the hell. 1st and 2nd, no outs. time for floyd to hit into a triple play
editedit: 2 outs. up to crazy lo duca.
editeditedit: Good Lord. bases loaded for beltran
editediteditedit: YES!!! ttyl mets.

nothing making me happier than seeing those bitter mets fans.

wow, beltran caught looking. how amazing is that?

[Ganster-T]

Cards Win.

[camjoe87]

IN YOUR FACE BELTRAN! IN YOUR FACE!

BYAA! Loved the reaction of the mets fans.

[tonythetiger]

WOOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOOO
IF i get world series tickets i promiss to take a lot of pics

[Shorty|*|RocK89]

I walked around school today with a Piece of paper hanging that said R.I.P Mets and the reactions were funny.:)

[tonythetiger]

I walked around school today with a Piece of paper hanging that said R.I.P Mets and the reactions were funny.:)
lemme guess, all the girls asked you out on a date?

[Shorty|*|RocK89]

lemme guess, all the girls asked you out on a date?

Yeah but besides that Met fans were bitching.

[tonythetiger]

Yeah but besides that Met fans were bitching.
I would have slit their throat with a milk carton:wave:

[Mhael'72]

Kenny Rogers is masterful again, and the Tigers pull even 1-1.

23 scoreless innings in the postseason for Rogers:boink:

[camjoe87]

Kenny Rogers. I see what you did there!

lawl, pine tar FTW!

[tonythetiger]

Is that the "substance" Joe Buck was talking about?

[AsHopeDies]

Looked to me like he rubbed some shit on his hand.

[YankeesSuck]

ha this is funny, it's a clip from the Cardinals celebrating after beating the Mets in the clubhouse. Ole ole ole (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cxEkWzG-zI&NR)

[Farout]

good ole spin sauce on roger's hand....

oh well at least the game we lost wasn't a blowout....

[tonythetiger]

What would the stuff on his hands do?

[Mhael'72]

What would the stuff on his hands do?


Not a damnt hing except give him a better grip on the ball in cold weather.

Rubbed on a bat it would make better contact for hitting, but whatever he had on his hands did nothing to hinder the Cardinals.

[tonythetiger]

^Today on the news they said that there is a rule in baseball: No foreign substances on you. So doesn't that mean he should be kicked since he did have a foreign substance on him?

[Mhael'72]

^Today on the news they said that there is a rule in baseball: No foreign substances on you. So doesn't that mean he should be kicked since he did have a foreign substance on him?

Sure, along with 90% of pitchers in the league.

The whole point is, he did something that MOST pitchers do regularly. The Umps addressed it, and Larussa said:


"There's a line that I think defines the competition — and you can sneak over that line, because we're all fighting for an edge, " La Russa said. "I always think, does it go to the point of abuse? And that's where you start snapping."

"I also know that many pitchers — I was going to say, 'routinely, ' but that may be too strong — use some sticky stuff to get a better grip from the first throw in spring training to the last side (session) they're going to throw in the World Series. Just because there's a little something that they're using to get a better grip, that doesn't cross the line."


Thats the bottom line.

[AsHopeDies]

The double standard is fucking outrageous. Your excuse that "most pitchers do it" is the same excuse people make for steroids, and if it's unacceptable there, then it's unacceptable here. He cheated, directly. Having pine tar on your fingers in cold weather makes a huge difference. And your argument that it didn't do a damn thing other then give him a better grip...that's retarded. That's like saying scuffing a ball doesn't do a damn thing other then making it break more, taking steroids doesn't do a damn thing other then give you more strength and a quicker bat, corking your bat doesn't do a damn thing other then make you hit the ball farther.

He cheated and he got caught and needs to pay the price.

That's the bottom line.

[Farout]

cards take game 3 and the haters can start crying.

[TurbulenceXM]

Well this is turning into an embarrassment for the Tigers. How many errors did they have through this World Series?

and everyone was certain the Tigers would kill the Cardinals.

[tonythetiger]

Well this is turning into an embarrassment for the Tigers. How many errors did they have through this World Series?

and everyone was certain the Tigers would kill the Cardinals.
Tigers have had ATLEAST one error per game, whats bad is that they are BIG errors that cost them the game.