saddam death sentence upheld

[drexel]

An Iraqi appeals court has upheld the death sentence against ousted President Saddam Hussein, Iraq's national security adviser has said.
"The appeals court approved the verdict to hang Saddam [Hussein]," Mouwafak al-Ruabaie said.

Lawyers launched an appeal after a court sentenced Saddam Hussein to death on 5 November for the 1982 killings of 148 Shias in the town Dujail.

Under Iraqi law, Saddam Hussein must be executed within 30 days.

article here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6210245.stm)

i wonder what will happen first, the execution of saddam hussein, or the death of the 3000th u.s. soldier?

check this chart out (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iraq_casualties.htm)

2844 u.s. soldiers have died since "mission accomplished"

[YouEnjoyMyself]

That sucks we're killing the one man on this planet who actually kept that country together. :lol:

[troutofdoom]

What will happen first, the execution of Saddam or the millionth Iranian dying at his hands?

Oh, wait...

Well at least he only killed a few hundred thousand Iraqis.

[drexel]

interesting sidenote, saddam was convicted of the deaths of 148 people.

[Sketcher]

interesting sidenote, saddam was convicted of the deaths of 148 people.

But everyone knows he was responsible for a lot more. It's just that there wasn't enough to convict him on more than 148.

[drexel]

But everyone knows he was responsible for a lot more. It's just that there wasn't enough to convict him on more than 148.

true.

interesting though, that in the end, he was convicted of what would be considered a prolific serial killer here in the west, and not the multiple thousands of deaths attributed to him.

dont get me wrong, he's a proper cunt. i'm just curious as to what people think will happen first.

[slapnpopbass]

I wish the legal system wasn't as slow as Stephen Hawkings in a snowstorm...

[david_slupper]

That sucks we're killing the one man on this planet who actually kept that country together. :lol:

My thoughts too.

[Secret Squirrel]

The law only says the sentence has to be carried out within 30 days, doesn't say they have to wait that long, and given how much he's hated here (that's not exaggerated in the media at all either) it won't surprise me if they do it in a week, and televise the hanging. When they first announced the death sentence people were shooting in the air (standard celebratory fire) and the guy in the mosque across from our base was yelling Allah Ahkbar (God is Great) over and over again (punctuated with gunfire in the air).

As far as the 3000 troop lost, yeah, that will suck, just like everyone has, but keep in mind there are over 150,000 here just right now. Not that each life isn't important, but you can't fight a war if you lose perspective, which frankly most of America has. And before anyone gives me crap on that, since I haven't posted here in a while, let me state that I'm deployed to Baghdad right now, spend more time off the FOB than on it, and routinely get hit by mortars when we are on the FOB. Part of why this war is going so badly is that everyone here KNOWS they can outlast us because we don't have the heart for a long, hard fight.

As for Saddam, screw him, the sooner they hang him the better. And to the guy who said he held this country together, think about whether you would have wanted to live here, cause I haven't met a Shia yet who would go back to Saddam's rule, even with all the crap here.

[bergshadow]

Part of why this war is going so badly is that everyone here KNOWS they can outlast us because we don't have the heart for a long, hard fight. If we had the heart for a long, hard fight, would the results be to your liking?

Saddam had the heart to carry out a long, hard fight. Do we celebrate that?

Not having the heart to carry evil out to its logical conclusions is maybe a virtue, a safety valve bequeathed us by people with sense, and morals, and ethical principles, and historical understanding.

It took us thirteen years to decide that we hadn't the "heart" to keep doing what we were doing in Vietnam. If it had taken us thirteen months instead, we would be far better off now - and Vietnam as well.
As far as the 3000 troop lost, yeah, that will suck, just like everyone has, but keep in mind there are over 150,000 here just right now. It won't stop with the 3000th death - or the 30,000th badly maimed, a number we are also approaching. It will stop when the dollar credit runs out, and the bills come due, though - so the Iraqis are right, they can outlast us.

Besides, they have nowhere to go. Even the 700,000th Iraqi death, or the 2 millionth maimed (numbers we are approaching, as well) will not induce them to leave, because they can't.

Who is "us", btw? Is there anyone in Iraq on "our" side who can last as long as the other Iraqis? If there is, we can leave Iraq (taking Saddam with us - we do owe our long time ally some consideration, morally) in their hands, with the best arms and support in the world, and all the advantges of three years of first class training and example.

[American Infidel]

We lost more marines during the invasion of Iwo Jima, in WWII, than the entire war in Iraq.

We have also lost our will to fight a tough war.

[YouEnjoyMyself]

We lost more marines during the invasion of Iwo Jima, in WWII, than the entire war in Iraq.

That was also during the days of large armies and brute force on the battlefield. They didn't have precision, laser guided bombs, tanks that travel 50mph and planes that could avoid radar.

We have also lost our will to fight a tough war.

We have also lost our will to fight a stupid war.

[whocares]

Part of why this war is going so badly is that everyone here KNOWS they can outlast us because we don't have the heart for a long, hard fight.

We have also lost our will to fight a tough war.

Well, that's good in some way. Considering that the war was a mistake on the first place.

[Chewy]

We have also lost our will to fight a tough war.I see it as people have enough sense that they don’t want to fight a bogus war over bull shit reasons.

[American Infidel]

That was also during the days of large armies and brute force on the battlefield. They didn't have precision, laser guided bombs, tanks that travel 50mph and planes that could avoid radar.

That's very true, señor obvious. Also, in those days, we didn't have our new-and-improved, anti-American media, who's pacifist propaganda agenda includes our defeat in the battlefield.
-------------------------
*******************
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We have also lost our will to fight a stupid war.
Well, that's good in some way. Considering that the war was a mistake on the first place.
I see it as people have enough sense that they don’t want to fight a bogus war over bull shit reasons.

We all have our varying opinions on the war and the moral obligations we have to the troops who are dying over there.

I guess I was lucky, because during Desert Storm, the majority of American's back home cheered for us to succeed and come home safely...and succeed.

Even if you don't agree with Bush's "blood for oil" campaign or "global domination" crusade, having mouthpieces like Cindy Sheehan, Susan Sarandon, Martin Sheen, Mike Farrell, Tim Robbins, Rob Reiner, Barbara Streisand, the Dixie Chicks, etc. etc., constantly preaching that our troops are fighting a losing and immoral war drains our troops' morale.

That's what I find sickening. People say they support the troops, but not their baby-killing, oil-stealing, murderous actions. Meanwhile, the enemy sucks the negative energy in, growing more powerful.

[Nocturnal]

We lost more marines during the invasion of Iwo Jima, in WWII, than the entire war in Iraq.

We have also lost our will to fight a tough war.

We have not lost the will. We have lost the purpose. The Pacific war in WWII was easy, they attacked us and they will pay the price. Iraq is not easy, they did not attack us, and were not likely to ever do so. Americans have the will, if we know what we are fighting for.

[American Infidel]

We have not lost the will. We have lost the purpose. The Pacific war in WWII was easy, they attacked us and they will pay the price. Iraq is not easy, they did not attack us, and were not likely to ever do so. Americans have the will, if we know what we are fighting for.

Hitler had nothing to do with Pearl Harbor, yet we had no moral qualms about invading Germany.

[bergshadow]

Even if you don't agree with Bush's "blood for oil" campaign or "global domination" crusade, having mouthpieces like Cindy Sheehan, Susan Sarandon, Martin Sheen, Mike Farrell, Tim Robbins, Rob Reiner, Barbara Streisand, the Dixie Chicks, etc. etc., constantly preaching that our troops are fighting a losing and immoral war drains our troops' morale I have never heard any of those people talk about politics, myself. They are very easy to avoid, apparently. They certainly aren't "mouthpieces" for the opposition to the war that I am familiar with. Aren't most of them Hollywood actors and pop singers, like the better known Arnold Schwarzenegger and Mel Gibson and Sylvestor Stallone and Garth Brooks and the like?

Our soldiers are fighting a losing and immoral war, of course, but that's not their fault. People who support sending soldiers to fight losing and immoral wars have something to answer for, though. You have to wonder how they sleep at night.
Hitler had nothing to do with Pearl Harbor, yet we had no moral qualms about invading Germany. Hitler declared war on the US, and attacked US shipping, US treaty allies, etc. W's grandfather sold him war materials to do that.
Meanwhile, the enemy sucks the negative energy in, growing more powerful. Cue scary organ music, closeup of Koolaid glowing in the dark. When did righties start talking like that?

[Chewy]

We all have our varying opinions on the war and the moral obligations we have to the troops who are dying over there.

I guess I was lucky, because during Desert Storm, the majority of American's back home cheered for us to succeed and come home safely...and succeed.
Your comparing nostalgic apples to ambiguous oranges. Bottom line we were duped into this war… some of us just saw the smoke clear before others.


That's what I find sickening. People say they support the troops, but not their baby-killing, oil-stealing, murderous actions. Meanwhile, the enemy sucks the negative energy in, growing more powerful.

I think you are giving the anti-war crowd too much credit, they have been apathic at best, unorganized, under funded, under supported, had colossal freak show guests act as spokes people… the anti-war group has been far from diligent and successful in undermining this war for that we can thank the incompetence of the current Administration.

[troutofdoom]

But everyone knows he was responsible for a lot more. It's just that there wasn't enough to convict him on more than 148.

Um, this needs clarified. He's being executed for the 148 deaths because it was the first case against him. There were more lined up should this one have failed.

[TrueDrew]

That sucks we're killing the one man on this planet who actually kept that country together. :lol:


He held that country "together" by killing people and controlling the rest of them by fear. I don't see how any decent human being can give any credit to a murderer like Saddam.

[YouEnjoyMyself]

He held that country "together" by killing people and controlling the rest of them by fear. I don't see how any decent human being can give any credit to a murderer like Saddam.

And we are "installing Democracy" by killing people and controlling with fear. I don't see the difference. Killing is killing, don't hide behind objective sayings like "oh we're the good guys" or "we aren't dictators" or "we're giving them freedom".

Fact is, Saddam had control over that country, and now Iraq is a shit storm with no end in sight. We've unleashed a war that is thousands of years old, and unless we're willing to use the same tactics as Saddam (which I think are outrageous, inhumane, and horrible), the country isn't going to be fixed.

[American Infidel]

Our soldiers are fighting a losing and immoral war, of course, but that's not their fault. People who support sending soldiers to fight losing and immoral wars have something to answer for, though. You have to wonder how they sleep at night.

And, as per standard operating procedures, you skirt my point. Our soldiers hear what is being said over here. Though some are wise enough to dismiss the anti-war hippies, many are not in a prime position to hear that their valiant work is not being appreciated by their fellow Americans. Even despite my active duty status in the Army or my opinion of Bush, I would never publicly speak out against the war or the military because I have a hellova lot more respect and admiration for the troops who are placing their lives on the line out there. The very last thing they need to hear is that their dedication and service to this country are complete and utter crap. And it's people like you who try to demoralize them by your loathsome and pacifistic propaganda.

Hitler declared war on the US, and attacked US shipping, US treaty allies, etc. W's grandfather sold him war materials to do that.

Ah, the ole' standby "Blame Bush" tactic. It's the cure all!

I heard (from a very reliable source) that my grandfather once cheated on my grandmother. By proxy, I must be an adulterer, also. If I haven't cheated on my wife, however, I should be condemned for the family history.

Cue scary organ music, closeup of Koolaid glowing in the dark. When did righties start talking like that?

You're the one with the Cherry Koolaid in your hand:

Al Qaeda has sent a message to leaders of the Democratic party that credit for the defeat of congressional Republicans belongs to the terrorists.

In a portion of the tape from al Qaeda No. 2 man, Ayman al Zawahri, made available only today, Zawahri says he has two messages for American Democrats.

"The first is that you aren't the ones who won the midterm elections, nor are the Republicans the ones who lost. Rather, the Mujahideen -- the Muslim Ummah's vanguard in Afghanistan and Iraq -- are the ones who won, and the American forces and their Crusader allies are the ones who lost," Zawahri said, according to a full transcript obtained by ABC News.

Source (http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/12/al_qaeda_sends_.html)

And you think they don't watch CNN? The liberal media is their closest ally.

Democrats believe it's in the nation's best interest to simply sit down and talk to the headhunters.

[bergshadow]

Though some are wise enough to dismiss the anti-war hippies, many are not in a prime position to hear that their valiant work is not being appreciated by their fellow Americans. Even despite my active duty status in the Army or my opinion of Bush, I would never publicly speak out against the war or the military because I have a hellova lot more respect and admiration for the troops who are placing their lives on the line out there. The very last thing they need to hear is that their dedication and service to this country are complete and utter crap. The only people telling them anyone thinks their dedication and service are utter crap are people like you, relaying lies about what other people are saying - often for domestic political gain.

And I don't think the incompetent and corrupt US administration, or the utterly contemptible profiteers on this war, should be allowed to hide behind the alleged vulnerability of the poor, fragile, weak soldiers' "morale", and be protected from even the slightest criticism of what they are doing.

And I don't think the reality of the situation in Iraq - such as the prevalence of mercenaries and corruption, the lack of attainable mission - is as invisible to the soldiers as you trust. And if it is, for how long? Are the facts of the Iraq war never to be admitted?

Soldiers are not mushrooms: keeping them in the dark and feeding them shit is not "support". Praising the people who set them off on this disastrous venture is not "support". And using that deception and dishonesty to politically support the people who are shorting soldiers' benefits and medical care, supplies and training, armor and weaponry, tactical improvements and political adjustments, and prospects of success or withdrawal, is not "support".

It's betrayal.
Ah, the ole' standby "Blame Bush" tactic. It's the cure all! The connection between the betrayal of the US to Hitler and the betrayal of the US to Halliburton is just one step from direct (through the Cold War fascism) - it wasn't that long ago, involves some of the same people and corporate interests and political alliances and familial legacies. W actually did inherit some of his grandfather's "adulteries".
"When did righties start talking like that?"


You're the one with the Cherry Koolaid in your hand:

Al Qaeda has sent a message to leaders of the Democratic party that credit for the defeat of congressional Republicans belongs to the terrorists. Answers the question: when they started needing a way to present agitprop and marketing as effective and serious reality - when their world became spin.

That's when Madison Avenue started talking about "negative energy", too.

[drexel]

Our soldiers hear what is being said over here. Though some are wise enough to dismiss the anti-war hippies, many are not in a prime position to hear that their valiant work is not being appreciated by their fellow Americans.

heather, i am curious about your position on the morale of the troops.

is it your contention that, due to anti-war sentiment here in the u.s., our troops are down in the dumps, and thus not as effective? should all americans praise this war, like it or not, so that the soldiers have better aim (or better intelligence, or whatever the case might be) because they slept better the night before? i dont see the connection.

Soldiers are not mushrooms: keeping them in the dark and feeding them shit is not "support". Praising the people who set them off on this disastrous venture is not "support". And using that deception and dishonesty to politically support the people who are shorting soldiers' benefits and medical care, supplies and training, armor and weaponry, tactical improvements and political adjustments, and prospects of success or withdrawal, is not "support".

It's betrayal.

very well said.

[silverspade14]

This girl in my history class thinks someone will shoot the hanging rope and ride off with Saddam, like The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly. I think she might be retarded.

[Cousin Eddie]

I understand that they are overwhelmed with offers of being the one to pull the lever. Iraqis & expatriot Iraqis.

[DazednConfused]

This girl in my history class thinks someone will shoot the hanging rope and ride off with Saddam, like The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly. I think she might be retarded.Men with ropes around their neck don't always hang. Even a filthy dictator like that has a protecting angel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ba'ath_Party).


I, like many others, don't trust the current administration at all. They have shown themselves to be both incompetent and corrupt. Ideally, I'd like to see a completely different group of Americans take over. I really do believe it would be possible to get Iraq to a reasonably stable state with some decent leadership and effort. I just don't see that happening. The American public is far too apathetic, especially about this war, to call for anything other than the easy way out, let alone do something as proactive as impeaching Bush and calling for massive changes in leadership. Our best realistic option might be to get the fuck out of there.

[deathmaster851]

The only people telling them anyone thinks their dedication and service are utter crap are people like you, relaying lies about what other people are saying - often for domestic political gain.

Naturally I can't speak for everyone, but I can speak for myself and I've spoken with numerous others about this topic, and they have the same viewpoint. But basically, no, its not people like heather who tell us that. He's right when he says its people like you and what you say, because it is.

I really don't care for these kinds of topics though, especially since I've enlisted in the Armed Forces, so I'll just leave it there.

[bergshadow]

But basically, no, its not people like heather who tell us that. He's right when he says its people like you and what you say, because it is. And the only problem remaining is where you thought you heard anyone like me say anything like that.

Because we didn't. We say stuff like this: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/25/AR2006122500459.html
Victory being out of the question at this point, the only democracy my brother is fighting for in Iraq is our democracy. The only constitution he is in Iraq fighting to defend is our Constitution. If my brother dies, it will not be for a mistake but rather because of his deeply held belief that the time it takes us as a people to figure out through democratic processes that we are wrong is more important than his own life.

This places upon us an obligation. My brother and other service members living and dead have given us the sacred responsibility to use the democratic means we have at hand to bring judgment to bear on whether any given war is worth our soldiers' lives. And so you have to have gotten the idea (that we are telling you your service is crap, etc) elsewhere.

Who is telling you lies about what I say? I think it's the Heathers of the world. But maybe I'm wrong. Fill me in.

[Secret Squirrel]

I see it as people have enough sense that they don’t want to fight a bogus war over bull shit reasons.

Chewy, I'd agree with you if I thought the reasons for the war were at all relevant as to why we can't sustain a long war, but I really don't think it matters. We could be fighting satanists who sacrifice babies and people would still not give a shit if it didn't personally affect them. In my opinion as a guy who's over here seeing things first hand, we owe the Iraqis better than this. We screwed it up, we ought to help them fix it, and sorry, but to whoever said they've had three years of premium training, nope, not the case. In most cases they got maybe one month of training, then handed a gun and sent to fight. Their military and government are so broke it's unbelievable. Frankly the whole situation here drives me nuts, but if you haven't seen it yourself it's hard to believe. I now officially have no hope for the middle east to ever make progress in the modern world. Their whole culture is stacked against it.

[Cee]

A hanging is just going to spell more bad news. I suspect a lot of security will be around Saddam at the time. Someone is desperate enough to try to save him. If he does get hung, all it'll do is create more problems than is needed.

[Chewy]

In my opinion as a guy who's over here seeing things first hand, we owe the Iraqis better than this. We screwed it up, we ought to help them fix it, and sorry, but to whoever said they've had three years of premium training, nope, not the case. Yes we owe the Iraqis better and yes we screwed it up but it's possible that we may not be the ones to fix it.

In our zeal to fix it I fear we may make choices for the Iraqi people they would not make for themselves.


In most cases they got maybe one month of training, then handed a gun and sent to fight. Their military and government are so broke it's unbelievable. Frankly the whole situation here drives me nuts, but if you haven't seen it yourself it's hard to believe. It sounds frustrating I don’t think I could complete your job there I respect the mental fortitude of those there.


I now officially have no hope for the middle east to ever make progress in the modern world. Their whole culture is stacked against it. I'm not ready to write them off as of yet, I see a great deal of negative and violence in the immediate future however I suspect stabilization is eminent and moving into the modern world will be step assisted by the moderates of the Islamic community throughout Europe and North America.

[Secret Squirrel]

Yes we owe the Iraqis better and yes we screwed it up but it's possible that we may not be the ones to fix it.

In our zeal to fix it I fear we may make choices for the Iraqi people they would not make for themselves.

It sounds frustrating I don’t think I could complete your job there I respect the mental fortitude of those there.

I'm not ready to write them off as of yet, I see a great deal of negative and violence in the immediate future however I suspect stabilization is eminent and moving into the modern world will be step assisted by the moderates of the Islamic community throughout Europe and North America.

Some of the fixes, particularly the militia, are things the Iraqis need us to fix, because we can do it without endangering our families, whereas any Iraqi who fights against the JAM (Jaysh al Mahdi) is basically risking his wife and kids and brothers and sisters with him. If we break the militias so that the government is the only major armed force in the country than I'll say we've done all we can. Right now if I was in charge I'd turn over everything except Baghdad, including Anbar province, to Iraq and focus our effort on enforcing the rule of law in the capital.

As far as Arab culture as a whole, the problems I see are that family and tribe considerations often outweigh competency and accountability. When people make mistakes are lie it's expected that you will ignore it. That's not a recipe for success or progress. It's not true for everyone, but it is true for the majority from what I've seen and from books I read before I came here.

[Karly]

I saw a few mentions of Hitler here and I hope you all knwo that Hitler was busy with his ethnic cleansing for quite awhile before we decided to do anything about it. Actually Britian did more to help the Jewish ppl by taking children out of Germany during that time and I believe it was called the kindertransport program, in order to let children escape the atrocities occuring there. we only decided to go in because Hitlers grasy on Euprope was expanding and you all knwo how we feel about anyone becoming to powerful. Sadaam was our friend for awhile and now all of a sudden we are calling for his beheading.

[Da Vinci]

The US keeps on declining...

Saddam wasn't so evil when you guys were selling him weapons, was he? But now that Dubyah made a phony war, suddenly he's a bad guy. America is ridiculous and is instigating a lot of shit on many countries, soon enough you'll have too much to handle at once, and collapse. Either economically, or through war.

I agree though, in the past America was a glorious nation, but the kind of shit that's being pulled now is a joke. Saddam is just the beginning, the ball is just gonna keep rolling and rolling until everything blows up in your face.

I await that day.

[bergshadow]

If we break the militias so that the government is the only major armed force in the country than I'll say we've done all we can. Right now if I was in charge I'd turn over everything except Baghdad, including Anbar province, to Iraq and focus our effort on enforcing the rule of law in the capital. And when the government armed forces turn out to be infiltrated with militias?

Besides, we can't break the militias. And if we could, we'd be faced with the probability that they are the only force in Iraq capable of keeping the Islamic terrorists under control.

And we can't keep just Baghdad. There's no oil there. Defeats the purpose.

The problem is with the people who are in charge. They are going to be in charge for at least two more years. If there were different people in charge, maybe, but if there were different people in charge we would never have done this at all. We screwed it up, we ought to help them fix it, and sorry, but to whoever said they've had three years of premium training, nope, not the case. That would be the generals in charge, the military spokesmen, the Commander In Chief, etc. The same people who are telling us that hundreds of thousands of Iraqis are trained and ready, and that more training will help. The same people who will be in charge of "helping them fix it" for two more years.

[American Infidel]

A view of things to come. (http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/gallery/2003/04/10/gall-1.jpg)

[Secret Squirrel]

And when the government armed forces turn out to be infiltrated with militias?
100% a problem. I agree. Part of what needs fixing, and wouldn't have happened if people (us) hadn't gone for easy fixes two or three years ago. I eagerly await the day I can have my current Iraqi counterpart arrested for working with the militias.

[/quote]Besides, we can't break the militias. And if we could, we'd be faced with the probability that they are the only force in Iraq capable of keeping the Islamic terrorists under control. [/quote]
I call BS. The terrorist problem here is so overblown at this point it's ridiculous. 90% of the problems here are from the militia and al Sadr.

And we can't keep just Baghdad. There's no oil there. Defeats the purpose.
I don't know if I've been gone long enough you just forgot who I am or if you're intentionally misunderstanding me. I could give two shits about where oil is, and I didn't mean keep Baghdad like keep it for us. I meant we continue working the security for Baghdad with our troops, and let the Iraqis handle security in the rest of the country.

The problem is with the people who are in charge. They are going to be in charge for at least two more years. If there were different people in charge, maybe, but if there were different people in charge we would never have done this at all. That would be the generals in charge, the military spokesmen, the Commander In Chief, etc. The same people who are telling us that hundreds of thousands of Iraqis are trained and ready, and that more training will help. The same people who will be in charge of "helping them fix it" for two more years.
I'm not arguing this. I was quite happy to see Rumsfeld go, and I hope that Gates actually seeks honest opinions on how things are going. The fact is the Iraqi military/police force has a ways to go, but it can get there. It's just BS to act like we sent these guys through the same level of basic training we give our troops. Honestly if we could get the supply system on the Iraqi side fixed I'd be 100% confident the Iraqis could get where they need to go. That's one area we need to stop holding their hands.

[TFS]

Holy shit...SS has been over there, living this shit for months, and suddenly comes out here and says everything I've been pretty much assuming based on my various sources, and Bergshadow still tries to argue him on what he is actually experiencing first hand instead of reading in internet editorials like Bergshadow does.

We finally have someone speaking from current, first-hand experience as to what exactly is going on over there, and you're still trying to tell him he's wrong about what he wakes up and deals with every day because you read something different on a website run by douches who have never been outside the country in some cases.

I almost made my computer sticky when I read this...

I don't know if I've been gone long enough you just forgot who I am or if you're intentionally misunderstanding me.


And Bergshadow, you share a somewhat common opinion that it is definitively undeniable that we cannot possibly hope to ever succeed in Iraq where people like SS are putting their lives on the line and are able to see, read, and hear the things you and other like you say about how what they're risking their lives for is meaningless because you think it cannot be achieved and that they're basically wasting their efforts and lives as a result, and you don't see how that is demoralizing? And somehow when Heather says people saying the shit you say is demoralizing, you deny saying it and then quote exactly that?

You're fucking unbelievable.

[bergshadow]

I call BS. The terrorist problem here is so overblown at this point it's ridiculous. 90% of the problems here are from the militia and al Sadr How is that calling BS? I don't know if I've been gone long enough you just forgot who I am or if you're intentionally misunderstanding me. I could give two shits about where oil is, and I didn't mean keep Baghdad like keep it for us. I meant we continue working the security for Baghdad with our troops, and let the Iraqis handle security in the rest of the country. I recall perfectly who you are. I'm sure you have excellent intentions, and I have always admired your basic decency and apparently sensible approach. I think you missed the point of what I said.

I wasn't talking about what you intend, or whether you care about the oil, or what you want to keep Baghdad for. I wish I were. I was simply pointing out that the people making those decisions have little reason, except maybe last ditch domestic US politics (needing some kind of "success" before the next election, say) to make Baghdad secure and turn the rest of the country over to the Iraqis. There is no oil in Baghdad.
and Bergshadow still tries to argue him on what he is actually experiencing first hand I am still not, and never will be, responsible for your inability to comprehend the meanings of simple English prose sentences written by me. You are always wrong, often quite stupidly so, and continually unsulting about it. Are you ever going to grow up, or pay attention?

If you reread, you will find that my sins here are quite different: I have been waiting with interest for Secret's promised return and reports, for some weeks now, and I am feeling a bit too smug about what they appear to be, since it is in almost perfect agreement with a long history of posts of mine (made in uncertainty) that have been treated with pretty blatant contempt around here. This is unworthy of me, and of the situation. But I'm human.

[TFS]

I am still not, and never will be, responsible for your inability to comprehend the meanings of simple English prose sentences written by me. You are always wrong, often quite stupidly so, and continually unsulting about it. Are you ever going to grow up, or pay attention?

If you reread, you will find that my sins here are quite different: I have been waiting with interest for Secret's promised return and reports, for some weeks now, and I am feeling a bit too smug about what they appear to be, since it is in almost perfect agreement with a long history of posts of mine (made in uncertainty) that have been treated with pretty blatant contempt around here. This is unworthy of me, and of the situation. But I'm human.

Atypical response from you; arrogant pius bullshit about how you're so perfect and I am wrong every single time and stupidly, and then you have the audacity to call me insulting.

His posts telling you it's no where near as bad as you think, and you respond trying to tell him you're more accurate than he's letting on, and now you're telling me his posts agree almost perfectly with yours? And you accuse me of not paying attention? Fantasy land is in Dinsey World, buddy, not on EBWF. Time to get off Splash Mountain and come back to reality: my inability to comprehend your simple English prose and no one elses stems from you denying having said the very things you say whenever someone calls you on some ridiculous shit. Most recently it's this bullshit about you accusing Heather of stating the obvious that people who claim it's impossible to win this war are damaging to morale of soldiers (who aren't in the dark to what's going on over here, as SS is evidence of) and you turning it back on him saying you said no such negative thing and quoted yourself saying it was impossible to win as evidence that you never said it was impossible. You twist and turn shit so hard, are you sure you weren't one of the lawyers Clinton consulted before debating the meaning of the word "is" while under oath? You're full of that much shit, and then when someone flings it back in your face for not smelling right, you twist it into tight little coils before bouncing it back.

[K@mik@ze]

That sucks we're killing the one man on this planet who actually kept that country together. :lol:


Actually, we are not. This is not up to us but did we have some influence? Sure we did. But the reason all this is happening with Saddam is because of his war crimes and slaughtering thousands of innocent. No man should walk away from such horrible things like putting prisoners in wood choppers. The fact is, even though it looked like things were better then, they really were not. Yes, less casualties, but the man was sick and had a distorted way of using his power. As far as this survey is concerned, i believe Saddam will be executed first. First of all, i thought we were still around 300 casualties away from 3k, and if youve been watching the news they say he may be executed as soon as a week or so.

[bergshadow]

His posts telling you it's no where near as bad as you think, and you respond trying to tell him you're more accurate than he's letting on, and now you're telling me his posts agree almost perfectly with yours? And you accuse me of not paying attention? perfect example.

What happened to the ignore button? This isn't getting you anywhere.

btw: the lefties have always asserted that Saddam ws as good as dead once caught. There is just no way the US is going to let him write his memoirs - regardless of how much valuable info he represents, about everything from WMD connections to Russian goals in the oil fields.

first. First of all, i thought we were still around 300 casualties away from 3k, and if youve been watching the news they say he may be executed as soon as a week or so. http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/iraq/forces/casualties/ 2989, as of a few hours ago.

[K@mik@ze]

The US keeps on declining...

Saddam wasn't so evil when you guys were selling him weapons, was he? But now that Dubyah made a phony war, suddenly he's a bad guy.


I think someone needs to do research around the desert storm era.

[Chewy]

I think someone needs to do research around the desert storm era.Like what Project Babylon perhaps, a Canadian Artillery expert building it, with part from UK, France, Germany, Spain, Italy and Switzerland… yeah we help build that arsenal we had no issue with tossing Saddam the tools to build up his military, helped him with his poison gases even made excuse for him and excused his aggressions on US servicemen. Saddam was the US's lap dog. (http://www.stpeace.org/gallery/interestingPhotos/images/saddam+rumsfeld.jpg)

[K@mik@ze]

This girl in my history class thinks someone will shoot the hanging rope and ride off with Saddam, like The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly. I think she might be retarded.


Haha, i had a good lol moment at that. To be honest, i actually was thinking of that same scene when i heard they were gonna hang him.:p

[Secret Squirrel]

Okay, much as I enjoy arguing about this, I'll just get back on topic and say this, regardless of what the US did or didn't do with Saddam pre-'91, it doesn't change the fact that Saddam did horrible things and deserves what he gets this weekend.

[drexel]

Okay, much as I enjoy arguing about this, I'll just get back on topic and say this, regardless of what the US did or didn't do with Saddam pre-'91, it doesn't change the fact that Saddam did horrible things and deserves what he gets this weekend.

well, according to the source i use to update the death toll in my sig, we are at 2999...

and i just heard a news report that the execution might take place tomorrow, on saturday.

they were also suggesting that the u.s. government will only be informed a few hours before the actual event, and that there will need to be some evidence of it having taken place.

what are the chances a video of it will be released to the public?

[OPP]

well, according to the source i use to update the death toll in my sig, we are at 2999...

and i just heard a news report that the execution might take place tomorrow, on saturday.

they were also suggesting that the u.s. government will only be informed a few hours before the actual event, and that there will need to be some evidence of it having taken place.

what are the chances a video of it will be released to the public?

Sad really, so many people have died. It's odd. The Iraqi people needed someone like him to keep them in control. Look at them now, it's like they are animals in the wild. I can foreshadow even more bloodshed after they execute him. Mostly in retaliation. And people wonder why the US isn't the most popular country in the ME.

Mind you, he was a waste of human flesh, and killed so many people. He deserved what he is getting. As much as I oppose the Death penalty. I'll let this one slide.

Wait... I forgot who I was talking about. Bush or Saddam?

[Chewy]

what are the chances a video of it will be released to the public?

Well they released vid of Uday and Qusay... I suspect video of of Saddam is in order to prove they did "bag Dad".

[drexel]

I can foreshadow even more bloodshed after they execute him. Mostly in retaliation.

i've given some thought to this.

at first it seems logical that there will be an increase in the violence over there in response to his execution. but doesnt it seem likely that those that would respond violently are already involved?

[OPP]

i've given some thought to this.

at first it seems logical that there will be an increase in the violence over there in response to his execution. but doesnt it seem likely that those that would respond violently are already involved?

Maybe not the number of people would increase, but possibly the number of bombings would.

[TurbulenceXM]

They are now saying he will die tonight. There really shortening his time now. HFirst it was sunday, than saturday, now tonight.

[OPP]

They are now saying he will die tonight. There really shortening his time now. HFirst it was sunday, than saturday, now tonight.

He is probably already dead. Tomorrow is Sunni Eid. He was Sunni, so not to kill him on the eid, they did it prior. It's already after 12:00am ther. So good chances he is worm food.

[slapnpopbass]

Well, looks like I made the wrong decision. Our court system needs to take a hint and not keep death row inmates on there for decades and just kill them. Save money and just shoot them.

[bergshadow]

at first it seems logical that there will be an increase in the violence over there in response to his execution. but doesnt it seem likely that those that would respond violently are already involved? Not according to this blogger, a secular upper class Sunni living in Iraq:

http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/
Again, I can't help but ask myself why this was all done? What was the point of breaking Iraq so that it was beyond repair? Iran seems to be the only gainer. Their presence in Iraq is so well-established, publicly criticizing a cleric or ayatollah verges on suicide. Has the situation gone so beyond America that it is now irretrievable? Or was this a part of the plan all along?
- - - -
Why make things worse by insisting on Saddam's execution now? Who gains if they hang Saddam? Iran, naturally, but who else? There is a real fear that this execution will be the final blow that will shatter Iraq. Some Sunni and Shia tribes have threatened to arm their members against the Americans if Saddam is executed. Iraqis in general are watching closely to see what happens next, and quietly preparing for the worst.

There are also reasonably argued conspiracy theories that assert this is intended to foment an increase in violence, to provide cover for a ramping up of troop levels in preparation for the coming bombing campaign in Iran. I don't think, myself, that any such fomenting is necessary, but the timing of this execution does look very odd.

Funny Saddam ws not waterboarded. He was certainly a good subject for that technique, if its public justifications have any reality to them at all.

[deathmaster851]

I love the question of who will die first, trying to be a negative smartass about it. So fun to make negative cracks about the war using the lives of your dead countrymen, huh? Hell, we should just start placing bets on how many people die over there! I mean shit, its not you doing it anyhow, right?

[Chewy]

I was not impressed when they killed Zarkowi (sp) and not impressed when the hanged Saddam… neither had anything to do with carrying out 9/11. Saddam was just another example of how derailed this Administration is in the priorities and how they sold it to the gullible masses. Just think what it would be like if it was OBL at the end of that rope.

[Secret Squirrel]

I was not impressed when they killed Zarkowi (sp) and not impressed when the hanged Saddam… neither had anything to do with carrying out 9/11. Saddam was just another example of how derailed this Administration is in the priorities and how they sold it to the gullible masses. Just think what it would be like if it was OBL at the end of that rope.

Why is it several of you seem to think it was our idea to hang him? Believe me, the Shia didn't need one ounce of encouragement to execute Saddam. If anything we probably stalled it by insisting they at least conduct a trial first.

Anyways, it was actually pretty quiet where I was today. I'm not saying nothing happened, cause I'm obviously not all over Baghdad, but I did cross through the city today and spent most of the day off base and all I heard was celebratory gunfire, and didn't hear anyone calling in firefights or explosions on the radio while we were out. Of course I wasn't in Sadr City, and if the Sunnis choose to retaliate the smart money says they'll send another car bomb into Sadr City.

[Buddha Bukakke!]

I was not impressed when they killed Zarkowi (sp) and not impressed when the hanged Saddam… neither had anything to do with carrying out 9/11. Saddam was just another example of how derailed this Administration is in the priorities and how they sold it to the gullible masses. Just think what it would be like if it was OBL at the end of that rope.
Regardless of whether he had anything to do with 9/11 or not he was put to death for a reason. How we came about capturing him was filled with lies and controversy but it doesn't change the fact that he deserved to be put out of power.

[OPP]

Why is it several of you seem to think it was our idea to hang him? Believe me, the Shia didn't need one ounce of encouragement to execute Saddam. If anything we probably stalled it by insisting they at least conduct a trial first.

You're actually going to sit there and say that the US didn't have a hand in the hanging? That's quite comical. The whole trial was a joke. It was highly unfair, and a lot of evidence for the defence was not brought, or allowed to be part of the trial. I agree this guy was a blood thirsty killer, but everyone deserves a fair trial. The US does what's in the best interest of the US. So to say the US had no hand or was not retarded bushies idea to hang him is ridiculous.

[poopchow]

Video of right before his death

http://video.msn.com/v/us/v.htm?g=8DFB018F-2716-4FA2-8532-A33A79852F51&t=c2771&f=06/64&p=hotvideo_m_iraq&fg=&GT1=8816

[drexel]

I love the question of who will die first, trying to be a negative smartass about it. So fun to make negative cracks about the war using the lives of your dead countrymen, huh? Hell, we should just start placing bets on how many people die over there! I mean shit, its not you doing it anyhow, right?

not being a smartass dude, just making the comparison between executing 1 man and the death of 3000 u.s. soldiers. they are not equal or equivalent.

oh, and everybody can stop voting now, both situations in the poll have been realized.

[Face Plant]

So thats all they got him on, gassing the Kurds. Although theirs no evidence the British used gas against the Kurds they sure talked like they were itching to do it. I guess Winston Churchill and TE Lawrence have that in common with Saddam.

I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/2719939.stm) -Winston Churchill in a memo talking about the Kurds

Brits in Iraq back in the day
Some other British leaders were equally blood-thirsty. After the revolt of 1920, TE Lawrence - Lawrence of Arabia - wrote to the London Observer to say: "It is odd that we do not use poison gas on these occasions."
-----------------------------------------
In the subsequent power struggles, Saddam Hussein worked his way up through the ranks - a rise supported by the West, anxious to preserve its influence in the region. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/2719939.stm

[Quicksilver]

Anyone know what the name of the website that has all the gory pics and videos? I'm wondering if they have the vid but I can't remember the name of the website. orgish.com or something like that

[Chewy]

Regardless of whether he had anything to do with 9/11 or not he was put to death for a reason. How we came about capturing him was filled with lies and controversy but it doesn't change the fact that he deserved to be put out of power.The way I see it if its there issue why not allow them to deal with it.


Why is it several of you seem to think it was our idea to hang him? Believe me, the Shia didn't need one ounce of encouragement to execute Saddam. If anything we probably stalled it by insisting they at least conduct a trial first. It wasn’t our idea to hang him it was our idea to expel more resources in toppling Iraq, creating playing cards and capturing Saddam than we spent on seeking out the one person who masterminded 9/11.

Personal I think those priorities are rather skewed but hey I'm the kind a guy that if someone walks up to me and taps on the shoulder just to kick me in the nuts I want to deal with that guy, I’ll spend some time looking for him to square shit up. Not grab a tire iron, three pals and knock on his neighbor’s… but hey that’s just me.

[bergshadow]

Why is it several of you seem to think it was our idea to hang him? Not just several of us - several million of them.

Because the US is in charge, and easily and honorably could have saved Saddam for a fair trial or even a dirty hanging later. He was a valuable source of info, and Iraq has no legitimate government, and his trial circumstances were a mockery, and so forth - the justifications were legion, the opportunity obvious.

What was Gitmo for, if not the Saddams?

Why is it several of "you" seem to think the only issue is whether Saddam deserved to be killed by somebody?

[werdinator?]

not being a smartass dude, just making the comparison between executing 1 man and the death of 3000 u.s. soldiers. they are not equal or equivalent.

oh, and everybody can stop voting now, both situations in the poll have been realized.

well too bad the US interefered. otherwise there wont be any 3000 faggots dead

[Secret Squirrel]

Oh yeah, we're totally in charge here. We say jump and the Iraqis say how high. Wouldn't that be great. Don't worry though. I'm sure you all understand it better than I do.

[bergshadow]

Oh yeah, we're totally in charge here. We say jump and the Iraqis say how high. Wouldn't that be great. Don't worry though. I'm sure you all understand it better than I do. ? The issue is what the Iraqis understand.

Several million of them believe, and it's hard to argue against them, that without US approval and cooperation and active agency Saddam could not have been tried even, let alone executed. They notice that Saddam was captured, questioned, and held for trial by the US, that when it came time to kill him the Iraqi court had to petition the US for his rendition, and that the entire government of Iraq involved was installed only with the approval and support of the US (no Baathists allowed, no Communists, no trade union reps, US imported carpetbaggers receiving high posts and in charge of important matters, etc).

The US is in charge, in Iraq. If it were not, the majority of Iraqis who disapprove of its continued presence would have had their say, and the US military would have been evicted from most or all of the country two years ago. The fact that only legitimate authority can actually command a modern nation, and that the US is not legitimate authority in Iraq, is unfortunate - disastrous, better - but does not change the fact that Saddam was killed only with the active cooperation and approval of the US. Had Saddam been taken to Gitmo, or the Hague, as could easily have been done, he would be alive. At the Hague, he might have received a fair trial. The US did not want him alive, or even tried fairly.

[Secret Squirrel]

I never said we were unhappy with the results, only that they it didn't take any impetus from us to get them. Had the Iraqis found Saddam themselves he probably wouldn't have lived to make it to a jail in the first place.

The Iraqi government may be a turd in a paper bag, but it doesn't bow to our every whim. It's actually a royal pain in the ass trying to get their security forces to work with us and develop a joint campaign plan. I wish we had actually put a US-led occupation government in initially and not dicked around worrying about world opinion, cause the Iraqis running the government do a shoddy job of it. But the fact is they don't just bow down and do whatever we ask. If they did we'd have made them make the Jaysh al Madhi (Sadr's militia) an illegal organization, but they still haven't, even though it undermines their own legitimacy.