Iranians captured in Iraq

[Cousin Eddie]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/28/AR2006122800897.html

Group: Iranians Were Part of Elite Force

By SLOBODAN LEKIC
The Associated Press
Thursday, December 28, 2006; 4:50 PM

BRUSSELS, Belgium -- Two Iranians detained by U.S. forces in Iraq were senior members of Iran's elite Revolutionary Guards and had coordinated attacks against coalition troops and Iraqi civilians, the head of an Iranian opposition group said Thursday.

The White House said earlier this week that U.S. troops had caught a group of Iranians in a raid on suspected insurgents in Iraq. Two of the men had diplomatic immunity and were released them to Iran, but the other two were kept in custody.





Maryam Rajavi, who heads the National Council of Resistance of Iran (NICR), an anti-regime umbrella group based in Paris, said the two men being held were senior members of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards' Qods force and were responsible for sectarian attacks in Iraq.

She cited the group's intelligence officials as the source of the information.

It was not possible to independently verify Rajavi's claim, but the group has provided relatively accurate information on developments in Iran over the past several years, including details on the country's secretive nuclear program.

In Washington, a Pentagon official said Thursday that U.S. forces had found "indications and evidence that all of the people rounded up, including the two Iranians, are involved in the transfer of IED technologies from Iran to Iraq." IED stands for improvised explosive devices, or small bombs that are commonly used in attacks in Iraq.

The U.S. military has confirmed that troops found documents, but it was not clear if any actual explosives were found.

The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the information has not yet been made public, said that U.S. forces are currently working out ways to turn over the Iranians to the Iraqis, but that has not been resolved as yet.

In Baghdad, a spokesman for Iraqi President Jalal Talabani said Monday that the two detained Iranians were in the country at his invitation.

But U.S. military spokesman Maj. Gen. William Caldwell confirmed Thursday that the detained men were part of a group of 10 suspects taken into custody after the raid on Dec. 21. They were being interrogated by U.S. intelligence, he said.

U.S. officials have charged that Iran provides training and other aid to Shiite militias in Iraq, including equipment used to build roadside bombs. Tehran denies this and says it only has political and religious links with Iraqi Shiites.


This news of possible Government-sponsored Iranians being captured in Iraq broke DAYS ago ... how come noone has posted it here yet? :uhoh:

[bergshadow]

Hard to know what to make of this.

No one is surprised by Iranians with close ties to US-allied Iraqis showing up in Iraq - several of the most important government officials in Iraq lived in Iran under protection of the Iranian government for many years, and are supported by Iran now, and have friends and connections in Iran, and are currently forging diplomatic and economic relations with Iran.

The source of the info that two of those captured are elite terrorist operatives is itself a State Department defined terrorist organization that up until recently had safe haven in Iraq, from its friendship with Saddam and the common enemy in Tehran.

[david_slupper]

Isn't it already well know that Iran support the Iraqi insurgents?

[bergshadow]

Isn't it already well know that Iran support the Iraqi insurgents? Not the Sunni ones. Not AQ. Not the MEK. Not the Kurdish ethnic cleansers. Not the Shia of the other kind, that don't take direction from the same ghosts.

The Iranians also support the Iraq Vichy government. Especially the Shia members of it.

[david_slupper]

Not the Sunni ones. Not AQ. Not the MEK. Not the Kurdish ethnic cleansers. Not the Shia of the other kind, that don't take direction from the same ghosts.

The Iranians also support the Iraq Vichy government. Especially the Shia members of it.

It has always been clear to me that Iran supports anything anti-American or anti-Israeli.

[eieio]

Isn't it already well know that Iran support the Iraqi insurgents?
Of course it is. That is exactly why it failed to strike anyone as 'newsworthy.' It was already known/assumed. Even bergshadow's post attests to his being unable to know quite how to spin it, although he makes a darn good try...the 'Iranian insurgents in Iraq are connected to the United States!' When in doubt BLAME AMERICA! :lol:

Hard to know what to make of this.

No one is surprised by Iranians with close ties to US-allied Iraqis showing up in Iraq - several of the most important government officials in Iraq lived in Iran under protection of the Iranian government for many years, and are supported by Iran now, and have friends and connections in Iran, and are currently forging diplomatic and economic relations with Iran.

The source of the info that two of those captured are elite terrorist operatives is itself a State Department defined terrorist organization that up until recently had safe haven in Iraq, from its friendship with Saddam and the common enemy in Tehran.

Well, then you should be thrilled if ALL such Iranian insurgents were systematically imprisoned, tortured and/or beheaded? :idea:

That would truly be the sentiment of someone in the shadow of Nicholas Berg, wouldn't it, bergshadow? :squint:


Nicholas "Nick" Evan Berg (April 2, 1978 – May 7, 2004) was an American businessman seeking telecommunications work in Iraq during the U.S.-led occupation of Iraq. He was abducted and later beheaded in May 2004 by Islamic militants. The CIA claimed that Abu Musab al-Zarqawi personally beheaded Berg.[1]

The decapitation, the first of a series of such killings of foreign hostages in Iraq, received worldwide attention because it was filmed, and the footage was subsequently released on the Internet, reportedly from a Malaysian homepage by the Islamic organization al-Ansars. His killers claimed that his death was carried out to avenge abuses of Iraqi prisoners by U.S. soldiers at Abu Ghraib prison. Berg's father, Michael Berg, ran for Congress in Delaware as the Green Party candidate on an anti-war platform (he lost) and blames George W. Bush for his son's death.

[0_transfat]

From the topic article:

In Baghdad, a spokesman for Iraqi President Jalal Talabani said Monday that the two detained Iranians were in the country at his invitation.


Holy crap the President of Iraq invited two Iranian terrorists into the country? The situation is much worse than I thought.

[bergshadow]

It has always been clear to me that Iran supports anything anti-American or anti-Israeli. And they support the Vichy government in Iraq - at least the majority and most closely American-associated members of it. So what does that make of our allies in Iraq?
Well, then you should be thrilled if ALL such Iranian insurgents were systematically imprisoned, tortured and/or beheaded?

That would truly be the sentiment of someone in the shadow of Nicholas Berg, wouldn't it, bergshadow? Near as I can figure, attempting to read sense into that, you have Iranian guests of the Iraqi government classed not only as insurgents but as AQ. Novel idea, that.
Holy crap the President of Iraq invited two Iranian terrorists into the country? The situation is much worse than I thought. They don't appear to be terrorists, so far. Just Iranians. Maybe just looking up old friends from Tehran, the ones the US installed in the Iraqi government.

The lefties have been trying to tell you for years now: Iran is winning this war.

[eieio]

And they support the Vichy government in Iraq - at least the majority and most closely American-associated members of it. So what does that make of our allies in Iraq?
Near as I can figure, attempting to read sense into that, you have Iranian guests of the Iraqi government classed not only as insurgents but as AQ. Novel idea, that.

What can't you twist and make queer?

[0_transfat]

They don't appear to be terrorists, so far. Just Iranians. Maybe just looking up old friends from Tehran, the ones the US installed in the Iraqi government.

The lefties have been trying to tell you for years now: Iran is winning this war.

You think maybe they were just there on vacation? Kissing al Sistani's feet and bumping their heads on Iraqi holy ground?

[bergshadow]

You think maybe they were just there on vacation? Kissing al Sistani's feet and bumping their heads on Iraqi holy ground? More likely negotiating the future of the southern Shia oil field region of Iraq. Western Iran has a nice ring to it, even in Persian, maybe.

Or discussing the smuggling operations. Iran doesn't want an organized crime ring on its border, screwing up the oil politics.

[Newground Spy]

wheres csite to say this is the Propaganda of zionists and jews to disgrace his country.

[rand0m]

We need to grab Iran by its throat and knee it in the balls.

For all we know this could have been caused by Iranian technology, and last time i checked killing each others soliders was an act of war. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6216607.stm)

[Nocturnal]

We need to grab Iran by its throat and knee it in the balls.

For all we know this could have been caused by Iranian technology, and last time i checked killing each others soliders was an act of war. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6216607.stm)

We might be better off starting with the Saudis then. They seem intent on arming the sunni insurgents, the lives of our people don't seem to matter.

[eieio]

From the topic article:

Holy crap the President of Iraq invited two Iranian terrorists into the country? The situation is much worse than I thought.

When your major ally starts making signs that show they can't be depended on to keep their word you have to get worried! The Iraqi government can't afford to 'flip off' the Iranians so they are making nice with them.

They have to make provisions for crawling on their knees to their eventual conqueror.

And to anyone in the US who doesn't like it, the Iraqi government says, "thanks A LOT, BITCHES!!" :mad:

We might be better off starting with the Saudis then. They seem intent on arming the sunni insurgents, the lives of our people don't seem to matter.

Noc is a shiite! Noc is a shiite!

[Nocturnal]

Well duh, am I supposed to believe that all of the first 4 Caliphs are the legitamite leaders of muslims? Phshhsh, what a load. Everyone knows that only the heirs of Ali are legitamite.

Ali in turn spawned the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Allah Marinara!

[bergshadow]

For all we know this could have been caused by Iranian technology, and last time i checked killing each others soliders was an act of war. There's more evidence for technological descent from the IRA and original Zionists, and direct connection with Russians and Italians of various kinds.

For all we know.

edited in: they let 'em go. Not terrorists, apparently.

A few people pointed out that most IEDs are planted by Sunnis, and training Iraqi Sunnis in IED tech would not be a smart move for Iranians.

[Secret Squirrel]

A few people pointed out that most IEDs are planted by Sunnis, and training Iraqi Sunnis in IED tech would not be a smart move for Iranians.

Depends which part of the country you're in. If you're out in Anbar province, definitely true. If you're in Baghdad, not so much. And the EFPs (IEDs designed to penetrate armor) are almost exclusively used so far by the Shia militia, and are mostly imported because they are more difficult to produce and have fairly tight tolerances if they are to work right. They come from Iran for the most part.

You are right though, the Iranians aren't helping the Sunnis.

[bergshadow]

And the EFPs (IEDs designed to penetrate armor) are almost exclusively used so far by the Shia militia, So, contrary to stateside reports, those things that blow through armored Humvees are not killing Americans in Anbar province

and the Shia militia are setting lots of, or increasing numbers of, roadside bombs for US forces?

- or that's not what we're talking about?

Maybe I need to add: honest question, not rhetorical - - -

[Secret Squirrel]

They may be in Anbar province now, but they started in Baghdad and came from Iran. No bullshit, just the straight up truth. The fact is anything that is successful in destroying a humvee spreads, but building an EFP is tougher than building a normal IED. A lot of what gets humvees out in Anbar is deep buried IEDs, where they put large amounts of artillery shells, etc., under the roads and they hit the bottom of the humvee. In Baghdad that won't fly because the roads are driven so often we'd notice that. Dropping a pre-made IED on the side of the road is relatively easy.

And yes, the Shia militia are settings lots and increasing numbers of roadside bombs for us. Meanwhile the al Qaeda types (and yes they are affiliated with al Qaeda, I know al Qaeda wasn't here pre-war but they came for the fight) drives car bombs into civilian markets here in Baghdad to keep the sectarian violence going.

Also, for those who may think I'm not sensitive to the deaths, two of the guys I trained with at Fort Riley died in a blast this week up north. So don't think I don't have a personal connection to the losses here. I can count at least five people I knew personally who have died here, and that doesn't even count ones I don't know about who I lost touch with.

[eieio]

They may be in Anbar province now, but they started in Baghdad and came from Iran. No bullshit, just the straight up truth. The fact is anything that is successful in destroying a humvee spreads, but building an EFP is tougher than building a normal IED. A lot of what gets humvees out in Anbar is deep buried IEDs, where they put large amounts of artillery shells, etc., under the roads and they hit the bottom of the humvee. In Baghdad that won't fly because the roads are driven so often we'd notice that. Dropping a pre-made IED on the side of the road is relatively easy.

And yes, the Shia militia are settings lots and increasing numbers of roadside bombs for us. Meanwhile the al Qaeda types (and yes they are affiliated with al Qaeda, I know al Qaeda wasn't here pre-war but they came for the fight) drives car bombs into civilian markets here in Baghdad to keep the sectarian violence going.

Also, for those who may think I'm not sensitive to the deaths, two of the guys I trained with at Fort Riley died in a blast this week up north. So don't think I don't have a personal connection to the losses here. I can count at least five people I knew personally who have died here, and that doesn't even count ones I don't know about who I lost touch with.

What do you think of the idea proposed by Capt. Patriquin of giving more power to the sheiks?

http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=2729584
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theworldnewser/2006/12/a_second_bad_da.html

This isn’t a great picture of him, but Patriquin didn’t look like your average Army Captain. He had a full mustache and was a “beefy” guy. But start talking to him and you knew this guy was something special. His boss called him brilliant. Travis could tell you about the tribal factions, not just in Iraq, but in Afghanistan as well. I’m not talking basic Shiite-Sunni differences, he knew about the tribes. He’d been in many a sheik’s home, shared meals and conversation. He could talk about history, politics, and archaeology. And he could about those subjects in several languages. He was a student of the world, of its cultures, who happened to wear a green uniform with U.S. Army Captain bars.

[bergshadow]

They may be in Anbar province now, but they started in Baghdad and came from Iran. No bullshit, just the straight up truth. The fact is anything that is successful in destroying a humvee spreads,
Does anybody on our side know how this kind of tech spreads?

Do we, that is, after four years, have intelligence from within the various major factions that are killing people in Iraq?

It looks, from the outside, as if the Sunni Baathists and the Iranian-connected (at least) (some faction in Iran, anyway) Shia, in general, have made common cause. Or AQ has made multiple alliances, even within the Shia. Or AQ has made common enemy with both. Or Iran (the actual government) has found communication channels with the Sunni Baathists or AQ or both, as well as the Shia, and has adopted a strategy of tying the US down in Iraq.

Or all of the above.

The conventional wisdom among the folks I convene with has been that suicide car bombs - suicide bombs in general - are (along with beheadings, etc) AQ's signature in Iraq, despite a history of them among the terrorist Shia in, say, Lebanon. Sound reasonably accurate?

[Secret Squirrel]

Does anybody on our side know how this kind of tech spreads?

Do we, that is, after four years, have intelligence from within the various major factions that are killing people in Iraq?

It looks, from the outside, as if the Sunni Baathists and the Iranian-connected (at least) (some faction in Iran, anyway) Shia, in general, have made common cause. Or AQ has made multiple alliances, even within the Shia. Or AQ has made common enemy with both. Or Iran (the actual government) has found communication channels with the Sunni Baathists or AQ or both, as well as the Shia, and has adopted a strategy of tying the US down in Iraq.

Or all of the above.

The conventional wisdom among the folks I convene with has been that suicide car bombs - suicide bombs in general - are (along with beheadings, etc) AQ's signature in Iraq, despite a history of them among the terrorist Shia in, say, Lebanon. Sound reasonably accurate?

Suicide bombs are definitely an AQ thing. The Shia militia doesn't use them. As far as common cause between AQ and any Shia groups, I'll put it like this. AQ drives car bombs in Sadr City, the heart of the Shia militia, on a weekly basis, killing people by the dozens and wounding hundreds a week. At the same time the Shia militia is known for setting up checkpoints and then taking any Sunnis that come through and executing them. And over here you can reliably guess a man's sect by his name. So no, I'd say there's no common cause there. I haven't heard of a single instance of coordination between Sunni and Shia insurgent groups. The fact is both sides of the insurgency are opposed to us, but also to each other.

As far as the spread of the technology, we know that Iran has trained members of the Shia militias, but I couldn't say for sure how AQ got them, but it probably wasn't directly from Iran.

eieio, it's not really our choice to "give power" to the sheiks. Culturally they have the power now. If you look at how the government works here you'd see it still comes down in large parts to voting by tribal blocs and the leaders solely working to square their people away. For instance Moqtada al Sadr's voting bloc got control of the Ministry of Health. As a result, it's damn near impossible for a Sunni to get health care in Baghdad, and in many cases they are scared to even retreive their relatives bodies from the morgues.