Romania & Bulgaria: 30 million, join European Union.

[yb-yellow]

30 million more join the European party

By Alex Spillius
Last Updated: 1:17am GMT 01/01/2007

At midnight last night Romania and Bulgaria became the newest nations of the European Union, bringing with them some 30 million people from one of the poorest corners of the continent.

Hundreds of thousands of people were expected to flock to street parties and concerts for the double celebration of New Year and EU entry, which they hope will be lead to greater prosperity and a final break with communism.

CONTINUED HERE (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/01/01/weu01.xml)

30 million people, that means new people on the Euro dollar right?

These are struggling poor countries though..

I also remember Turkey has been fighting for a long time but has been declined given access to the Euro Union.

[18C]

I heard Turkey was like the Mexico of Europe.

[yb-yellow]

Yeah and Turkey has tons of Muslims.

Europe wouldn't want to be tainted with that.

[0_transfat]

Bulgaria and Romania are OK. Turkey fuck no! Too many damn Muslims there.

Bulgaria:
Bulgarian Orthodox 82.6%, Muslim 12.2%, other Christian 1.2%, other 4% (2001 census)

Romania:
Eastern Orthodox 86.8%, Protestant 7.5%, Roman Catholic 4.7%, other (mostly Muslim) and unspecified 0.9%, none 0.1% (2002 census)

[XxMASTARRONxX]

*SIGH* So much damn ignorance now a days!

[0_transfat]

^^^ asalaam aleikum

[bergshadow]

Wonder if the age old Romanian custom of robbing Germans will be helped or hindered by this. Not that the legalities of the borders involved were ever a solid barrier, but they were key to the German responses - if my informants were correct, as of a few years ago these responses had been reasonably effective, and had shifted the main robbery focus to Germans on vacation at Black Sea resorts.

The world of grand politics may change, but old customs die hard.

[Nocturnal]

You guys are straight up retarded. If you had a clue of the world beyond what Mr. Oreilly tells you each evening you would realize that Turkey is a not a nation to be feared. If there are "good" and "bad" muslims, then Turkey is definitely full of the former.

[yb-yellow]

Turkey has tons of Muslim people.

Muslim people are proven to be violent and satanic, and quite frankly they need to be reformed and get re-educated.

I think this is the only way to solve our worlds problems.

[Poser Park]

Reformed and reeducated? I think Christians should be reformed and reeducated for being such hypocritical bastards.

[yb-yellow]

This is not E/N lets keep it civil and respected.

I am just saying very respectable people in society recognize Islam to be a violent and satanic religion and the only way to solve this epidemic to reform and re-educate them.

[Nocturnal]

Turkey has tons of Muslim people.

Muslim people are proven to be violent and satanic, and quite frankly they need to be reformed and get re-educated.

I think this is the only way to solve our worlds problems.

Satanic? Are you trying to appear comical?

The people of Turkey are secular and western. Muslims of their sort are exactly the type we want in the world community.

[dead]

This is not E/N lets keep it civil and respected.

I am just saying very respectable people in society recognize Islam to be a violent and satanic religion and the only way to solve this epidemic to reform and re-educate them.ignorance is bliss :banghead:
There is a great division between religion and state in turkey.
The main reason that turkey don't have joined the EU is because of cypress and human right issues.

[American Infidel]

ignorance is bliss :banghead:
There is a great division between religion and state in turkey.
The main reason that turkey don't have joined the EU is because of cypress and human right issues.

Turkey is the safest place in the world!!!

In other news, people have been warned against traveling to Turkey (http://www.smartraveller.gov.au/zw-cgi/view/Advice/Turkey), due to their Religion of Peace™. "Don't run...we are your friends!"

[Nocturnal]

It does also list the UK as at risk for terrorist attack also. :wave:

Were I to travel in Turkey I would be mostly concerned with foreign terrorists attacking the Turkish government/people.

More to the point though. If we intend to win this war, are we best served by marginalizing any nation that has a Muslim population, even if they are mostly secular and western? If we were to assign Turkey to the axis of evil, their people would become radicalized, increasing the number of our enemies. Conversely if Turkey makes the required changes to enter the EU, we will be seeing an even more secular and western nation. This nation would automatically be a prime ally in the war against radical Islam.

[Rapex]

I am just saying very respectable people in society recognize Islam to be a violent and satanic religion and the only way to solve this epidemic to reform and re-educate them.

I really hope your joking. If you really think that Islam is violent then by your standards Christianity should be banned. Atheism also, there's lots of bad people who have been atheist. And I think we should re-educate those Hindus because one of them gave me a bad look. Don't even get me started on Agnostics.


I think that any country that wants in to the EU should be allowed, especially developing countries in Eastern Europe. Most are still recovering from communism and their economies are in ruins. What we need is a united Europe.

[0_transfat]

I really hope your joking. If you really think that Islam is violent then by your standards Christianity should be banned. Atheism also, there's lots of bad people who have been atheist. And I think we should re-educate those Hindus because one of them gave me a bad look. Don't even get me started on Agnostics.


Christianity has for the most part been marginallized in the modern world. It doesn't control much of anything anymore.

But Islam is still very much all powerful in the socially retarded Muslim world. That should frighten all sane people, even liberals. Hey kids guess what, they kill gays and lesbians in the name of Islam in Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Indonesia.

<sponsored by the anti-Islam Council for looking closely at Islamist murdering bastards>



-

[Nocturnal]

Christianity has for the most part been marginallized in the modern world. It doesn't control much of anything anymore.

But Islam is still very much all powerful in the socially retarded Muslim world. That should frighten all sane people, even liberals. Hey kids guess what, they kill gays and lesbians in the name of Islam in Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Indonesia.

<sponsored by the anti-Islam Council for looking closely at Islamist murdering bastards>



-


I don't think that when the most powerful nation on Earth is run by fundamentalist Christians (well that lessened thanks to the recent election) you can call that "marginalized".

[Polkovnik]

Turkey is actually a place I would like to visit some day, but I don't think it belongs in the European union, because Istanbul is the only city that Turkey has in Europe.

Turkey differs from Iran and Afghanistan, etc, because the people there are sensible, they are not as stupid as the ones who blow themselves up, so I don't see any reason that isn't geographic why Turkey could not be in the EU, they are a lot better off than Romania and Bulgaria anyways.

[Danimal87]

Besides the fact that Turkey is a nation of Muslims, they're also geographically and culturally distinct from the rest of Europe. You can now show me another nation that is part of the EU that also fits that description, but that doesn't mean I'll agree with that being part of the EU either.

[PolishKing84]

fuck turkey and fuck the fuckin muslims.
We dont need islam, we dont want islam
europe number 1, fuck turkey let them join the middle east union, let the arabs have them, poisoning europe's values, traditions, and culture with their islamanism. White european youths unite to fight the invaders. In Poland, muslim get masked fucking up without hesitation.

[Poser Park]

fuck turkey and fuck the fuckin muslims.
We dont need islam, we dont want islam
europe number 1, fuck turkey let them join the middle east union, let the arabs have them, poisoning europe's values, traditions, and culture with their islamanism. White european youths unite to fight the invaders. In Poland, muslim get masked fucking up without hesitation.

Heh, reminds me of someone who said almost the exact same thing nearly 60 years ago.

[18C]

Heh, reminds me of someone who said almost the exact same thing nearly 60 years ago.

ALOLF :lmao: :lmao:

[Nocturnal]

Heh, reminds me of someone who said almost the exact same thing nearly 60 years ago.

I'm pretty sure I suggested that to him before. The irony appears to be lost in translation.

[PolishKing84]

^^ rofl silly commoners.

unlike the usa for example, poland is a homogeneous country. Polish speaking, white roman catholics, thats the way we like it. The muslim invasion is quite frankly pretty disgusting, thank god there is a strong nationalist movement in eastern europe. We want to preserve our values, traditions, and culture, and not be poisoned by islam. We dont need islam, we dont want islam, this ain' their country. Quit mistaking hitlerism with an inevitable revolution, silly americans. If muslim want to leave their piece of shit desert then go rape the usa economy they have no culture anyways its just a big free for all. I am from south poland (ruda slaska), no minorities there, there is little minorities in big cities anyways but what can u do with globalization. Ill tell u what we can do if a minority come to the capital to realize his dreams, a masked fucking up without thinking twice. Make them feel unwelcome and that is a strong tactic to drive out the few minoritiy invaders. As i said before usa is a mixed country so i dont really care, but not poland. What you americans need to worry about is impeaching g.w.bush, the father of all terrorists. dangerous invasion of muslim dog -_- smelly ugly hairy girls

[Poser Park]

I'm sorry for mistaking you for a Nazi, you're only a white nationalist who doesn't want other people in your land.

My mistake.

[david_slupper]

You guys are straight up retarded. If you had a clue of the world beyond what Mr. Oreilly tells you each evening you would realize that Turkey is a not a nation to be feared. If there are "good" and "bad" muslims, then Turkey is definitely full of the former.

That explains why Germany is having so much trouble integrating their Turkish minority right?

[PolishKing84]

^^ 'nazi' sounds so 'evil'

my vison is very logical. I believe in a free state, just with policies that benefit the people of the land the most. The world is very big therefore a country must be united, to preserve itself. Muslims are not needed nor wanted in Poland. In an utopian state only 1 party is needed, it has to be ruled by 'wisemen' since these people are making always the right 'mathematical decision' if you will for the people, (dont confuse with communism, in my view foreign policy must be nationally united, free business and competition is encouraged, but for example electricity or hydro, would be nationalized so the people dont get fucked, etc, so therefore an opposition party is not needed as their decision can only match or be worse then the 'wisemen's, and there would be a king, that loves his country, and the country would prosper. Good business, security, health, good relations inner and outer, etc. would be a benifit. This whole view is based that the country has a distingued language + culture + and debth in history. A country like usa could never survive like this anymore in 2000~ era, if slavery would still exist in usa they would be so rich its unbelievable, but the times have changed. I'm just stating how it should be in an ideal way.

back to the topic; no turkey does not belong in the european union, all u turks quit being greedy and wanting everyones money. Beware of muslim, beware of dangerous invasion.

[Weasel]

^^ rofl silly commoners.

unlike the usa for example, poland is a homogeneous country. Polish speaking, white roman catholics, thats the way we like it. The muslim invasion is quite frankly pretty disgusting, thank god there is a strong nationalist movement in eastern europe. We want to preserve our values, traditions, and culture, and not be poisoned by islam. We dont need islam, we dont want islam, this ain' their country. Quit mistaking hitlerism with an inevitable revolution, silly americans. If muslim want to leave their piece of shit desert then go rape the usa economy they have no culture anyways its just a big free for all. I am from south poland (ruda slaska), no minorities there, there is little minorities in big cities anyways but what can u do with globalization. Ill tell u what we can do if a minority come to the capital to realize his dreams, a masked fucking up without thinking twice. Make them feel unwelcome and that is a strong tactic to drive out the few minoritiy invaders. As i said before usa is a mixed country so i dont really care, but not poland. What you americans need to worry about is impeaching g.w.bush, the father of all terrorists. dangerous invasion of muslim dog -_- smelly ugly hairy girls

I love how you call minorities "invaders". Get your bigotry out of this thread, and start making sense. It's funny that you want to stop something that would help your country. Diversity is a good thing. Maybe if Poland had a few more minority groups in it, there'd be less people like you and more people helping to improve your economy. Don't get me wrong, I'm a Jew who's a quarter Polish, and I think it'd be nice to visit one day, but if everyone is like you, I won't be staying long.

I'm sorry for mistaking you for a Nazi, you're only a white nationalist who doesn't want other people in your land.

My mistake.

QFT.

Beware of muslim, beware of dangerous invasion.

Excuse me Mr. Polish sir: WTF ARE YOU THINKING!?

[bergshadow]

unlike the usa for example, poland is a homogeneous country. Polish speaking, white roman catholics, thats the way we like it. - - -
dangerous invasion of muslim dog -_- smelly ugly hairy girls Might be a bit of a culture shock coming, when the travelers from the Glorious Kingdom of Polack Utopia find out what the white, Roman Catholic, historically deep Irish think of Polish girls, compared with Arabian ones.

Explains some of that homogeniety, though - not too many Gypsies, Jews, etc, left in Poland, for some reason. And the USA got a lot of the good scientists, musicians - we'll take anyone, apparently. That's the way we like it.

[Henkie]

That explains why Germany is having so much trouble integrating their Turkish minority right?

This statement presumes that the Germans actually have a lot of problems integrating their Turkish minority. On what do you base this? Do you just assume it, because they're Turks? Do you assume it because some German dude told you so? Do you have any comparison with other countries and their minorities? Are you just bullshiting?

[Boomer]

Why are you guys arguing about religion? I see a different set of challenges ahead of us in the form of a united Europe. Combined, their economic strength surpasses that of ours. Politicians kept on telling how much a threat a rising China is while ignoring the fact that EU is years ahead of China economically, technologically and militarily. They just might be our competitor in the future.

[theC]

I think it'd be nice to visit one day, but if everyone is like you, I won't be staying long.

It's a nice place to visit once or twice but I definitley would not want to live there. The older I get the less 'proud' of my Polish heritage I am. I hate going there now. People there blame every one else for their problems. It's always the Jews' fault , or the Muslims, or the Italian guy who just moved into the neighborhood... but it's always the white catholic nurse or doctor who take bribes to give you prompt treatment, or the white-catholic police who are corrupt or the white-catholic soccer fans who throw bananas and make monkey calls at black soccer players. Yes Poland, it's the Jews and the Muslims who are bringing your perfect culture down.

And just a note, by 'people' I of course don't mean EVERYONE in Poland, just the large percentage that I've come across that think that way.

BTW, what I find fascinating about antisemitism in Poland is that prior to WWII in the 1920s and 1930s, Poland was one of the most modern and prosperous nations in Europe. It was also home to one of the largest settlements of Jews in the world and they were respected. Only after the war and especially in the 1960s did a wave of antisemitism sweep through the country due to the polish government trying to please Moscow by adopting some of their unofficial/official stances on Jews.

[Danimal87]

We want to preserve our values, traditions, and culture, and not be poisoned by islam.
Makes sense to me.

You'll have to excuse everyone else, we've all been raised since we were young to think of white people wanting to preserve their heritage as being pure evil. But when blacks, mexicans, jews, asians, arabs/muslims and everyone else does it, they are applauded for being proud and bringing diversity.

[Ace Hippie]

This statement presumes that the Germans actually have a lot of problems integrating their Turkish minority. On what do you base this? Do you just assume it, because they're Turks? Do you assume it because some German dude told you so? Do you have any comparison with other countries and their minorities? Are you just bullshiting?

Err, it's a fairly well known fact that the Turkish community in Germany hasn't integrated all that well, at least in part due to de jure discrimination regarding citizenship. People of German ethnic background can breeze through the citizenship process even if they've immigrated from other countries while those of Turkish descent living in Germany face a much harder road.

Another example;

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,1840793,00.html

On Jan. 1, life got tougher for Muslim immigrants angling for a German passport in the southern state of Baden-Württemberg.

In a unique move, the interior ministry of the state has said that potential Muslim Germans would face a lengthy interrogation, involving answering a catalogue of 30 questions on their political, cultural and social views. Subjects include their opinions on religious freedom, equality of the sexes, homosexuality, freedom of expression, the concept of honor, and forced marriage.

Within Germany's Turkish community, there is some anti-integrationist spirit because of laws that would force them to give up their Turkish citizenship (from what I understand, that means they can't inherit land or property or be buried in Turkey, among other things). That, on top of the usual fun regarding immigrants 'taking' jobs and so on tends to support the idea it's not just 'bullshit' when people speak of the Turkish immigrants in Germany as being a real issue.

[Nocturnal]

Makes sense to me.

You'll have to excuse everyone else, we've all been raised since we were young to think of white people wanting to preserve their heritage as being pure evil. But when blacks, mexicans, jews, asians, arabs/muslims and everyone else does it, they are applauded for being proud and bringing diversity.

If the stuff below is Polish "values and customs"... sounds like a great country. :uhoh:

I know a few Polish people, and they aren't running around asking the white race to fight other groups, so I suspect it's not intrinsic to Polish culture.

fuck turkey and fuck the fuckin muslims.
We dont need islam, we dont want islam
europe number 1, fuck turkey let them join the middle east union, let the arabs have them, poisoning europe's values, traditions, and culture with their islamanism. White european youths unite to fight the invaders. In Poland, muslim get masked fucking up without hesitation.

[NSX-R]

Turkey should refrain from joining the EU because of their stark cultural differences compared to Europe. Differences don't breed unity. Besides, it's Europe's final decision and there is no law preventing them from rejecting Turkey's EU proposal.

[Dozer]

What about Turkish Cypriots? Turks who form the majority in Bulgaria's southern provinces along the border with Turkey ? Should they be allowed to secede and join Turkey ? I mean , why would you want them in the EU if you didnt want Turkey ?

It sounds weird that Cyprus is considered to be culturally european when Turkish Cypriots are a constituent nation (along with the Greek Cypriots) according to its constitution. Turkish is an official language in the Republic of Cyprus although almost all Turkish Cypriots live in the breakaway north cyprus. Whats your view on that ?

[Ace Hippie]

What about Turkish Cypriots? Turks who form the majority in Bulgaria's southern provinces along the border with Turkey ? Should they be allowed to secede and join Turkey ? I mean , why would you want them in the EU if you didnt want Turkey ?

Minority ethnic groups don't really factor in when they're that small and don't really have an impact on the perceived 'national culture', as it were. Bulgaria is a distinctly Christian country, etc.

It sounds weird that Cyprus is considered to be culturally european when Turkish Cypriots are a constituent nation (along with the Greek Cypriots) according to its constitution. Turkish is an official language in the Republic of Cyprus although almost all Turkish Cypriots live in the breakaway north cyprus. Whats your view on that ?

Northern Cyprus is not recognized by the global community apart from Turkey, basically. Cyprus (the whole island) is a predominantly Greek Cypriot/ Orthodox place (roughly 3/4ths of the population is ethnically Greek and Greek Orthodox, so it's associated with Greece, which is in turn associated with Europe. The existence of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus is essentially irrelevant because the EU, UN and everyone else considers it illegal.

Your argument, to some extent, is on the right track though. The claim that there's somehow some singular European identity is fallacious. Greece, for example, has a very different history and culture than anywhere in Western Europe. Orthodox Christianity is distinct from Catholicism and were someone to claim they were the same in any other context, they'd likely be shouted down. This claimed shared European identity is something constructed as an argument in times like this (to explain why Turkey should be kept out), even though it has never really existed.

[Dozer]

I understand what you're saying, but you're taking the countries as a whole. The northern third of cyprus and southern bulgaria are just as turkish in character as any other province in turkey itself. Just go there and you'll find out that the primary language spoken there is turkish, people watch Turkish TV channels etc. Like how Kosovo is pretty much dominated by Albanians but officially considered to be part of Serbia by the rest of the world.

I wonder just how good EU accession is going to be for Bulgaria and Romania. Both have major demographic problems with their populations in rapid decline and aging fast. A lot of the younger generation are bound to leave for other EU countries in search of jobs and higher wages. They might come to regret it

[Ace Hippie]

I understand what you're saying, but you're taking the countries as a whole. The northern third of cyprus and southern bulgaria are just as turkish in character as any other province in turkey itself. Just go there and you'll find out that the primary language spoken there is turkish, people watch Turkish TV etc. Like how Kosovo is pretty much dominated by Albanians but officially considered to be part of Serbia by the rest of the world.

And, again, that may well be true but the actual demographics don't play out so that they make much of a difference. To explain each in turn;

Cyprus
First of all, the fact a third of Cyprus (geographically) is Turkish is simply a product of the Turkish military. Three-quarters of the population is Greek Cypriot and that's even after 3 decades of Turkey propping up their little puppet regime. As with Bulgaria (see below), the demographics are overwhelmingly Greek; the recognized government is the Greek one (even though Cyprus (the island) is in the EU, only the Greek part actually participates in the organization. Yes, there are a lot of Turkish Cypriots, but the island as a whole is clearly Greek.

Bulgaria
Ethnically speaking, 83.9% Bulgarian, 9.4% Turk. Linguistically; 84.5% Bulgarian, 9.6% Turkish. Religion; 82.6% Bulgarian Orthodox, 12.2% Muslim.

Yes, there's Turkish influence and some areas of Turkish dominance, per se, but overall we're takling a 7 or 8 to 1 ratio in each of these categories, even greater than in Cyprus.

You don't see people claiming the US should be described as a Hispanic or black dominated country do you? Bulgaria is predominantly a member of the Eastern Orthdox sphere (along with Russia, Greece, etc.), as is Cyprus.

[Weasel]

Makes sense to me.

You'll have to excuse everyone else, we've all been raised since we were young to think of white people wanting to preserve their heritage as being pure evil. But when blacks, mexicans, jews, asians, arabs/muslims and everyone else does it, they are applauded for being proud and bringing diversity.

There's a stark difference between preserving one's heritage and culture, and believing that minority groups are "invaders". Why not just accept everyone's cultures, while keeping your own beliefs and traditions intact?

[PolishKing84]

There's a stark difference between preserving one's heritage and culture, and believing that minority groups are "invaders". Why not just accept everyone's cultures, while keeping your own beliefs and traditions intact?

because homogeneous countries wanna preserve their roots, is that too hard for u to understand? Poland to the polish people. The attacks on minorities will continue. I accept muslims n all in north america since its a mixed country, so one extra race isnt that big of a deal. It is YOU who is being unreasonable by saying 'o sorry polacks, you cant have your own sovereign country, you must allow minorities to invade. Its like you are telling me to open my door and order me to share my house openly with strangers, especially strangers who for the most part want to profit from you economically, not only that but install their beliefs and values onto YOUR house. How would u feel, would u not feel violated or invaded?

[Polkovnik]

because homogeneous countries wanna preserve their roots, is that too hard for u to understand? Poland to the polish people. The attacks on minorities will continue. I accept muslims n all in north america since its a mixed country, so one extra race isnt that big of a deal. It is YOU who is being unreasonable by saying 'o sorry polacks, you cant have your own sovereign country, you much allow minorities to invade. Its like you are telling me to open my door and order me to share my house openly with strangers, especially strangers who for the most part want to profit from you economically, not only that but install their beliefs and values onto YOUR house. How would u feel, would u not feel violated or invaded?

how old are you? You are close minded, close minded people never get anywhere, so if everyone in your country was like you, it'd be a big shit hole, oh wait.

[YouEnjoyMyself]

how old are you? You are close minded, close minded people never get anywhere, so if everyone in your country was like you, it'd be a big shit hole, oh wait.

Although I disagree with him, I think countries have the right to keep out whoever they please for whatever reason they want.

If we are going to have countries, they need to be allowed to run things how they please.

[PolishKing84]

how old are you? You are close minded, close minded people never get anywhere, so if everyone in your country was like you, it'd be a big shit hole, oh wait.


lol no wonder ur canadian and american, you dont see it from the perspective of the true people of the land of a homogeneous country with 1 distinct language and culture. So it is you who is close minded.

[bergshadow]

the perspective of the true people of the land of a homogeneous country with 1 distinct language and culture. Now that you've rid yourselves of the Jews and the rest, anyway.

You probably should take another look around, though - you've still got a few people who wear glasses, read in foreign languages, etc. You're not done yet.

When you are done "ethnic cleansing" (it's a metaphor, from the practice of "cleansing" found in other cultures), you should build a wall. People will be always trying to sneak in - or out - and walls are nice for privacy. We'd probably appreciate the interruption of the view, as well.

[Danimal87]

There's a stark difference between preserving one's heritage and culture, and believing that minority groups are "invaders". Why not just accept everyone's cultures, while keeping your own beliefs and traditions intact?
All you have to do is look to what Muslim immigration has done to France in order to see why Polish people wouldn't want those types coming to their country. I am of course speaking about the riots of Muslim "youths", where French citizens were attacked left and right, and thousands of cars were set ablaze, sweeping the country into a state of fear and chaos.

Poland for the Poles, and let the Muslims stay in their own lands. If its not good enough, then fight to make it better. Its not as if western countries became as successful as they are overnight, it took effort to get them the way they are.

Keep fighting, Polish King.

[GlobeWanderer]

The only reason was Turkey was considered in the EU talks was because of Cyprus... which has been divided into 2 parts: Greek-Cypriots & Turkish-Cypriots

[Weasel]

I think it'd be nice to visit one day, but if everyone is like you, I won't be staying long.

I'm done.

10letters

[soccer4ever]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_union