Extermination of the white...

[StCyril]

I was at work the other night. My friend and fellow supervisor noticed that this one guy, who just happened to be black, was taking excessive smoke breaks, and only had half of what the rest of the staff had done. So he went to confront the worke. When he repremanded the man for not doing his job, the guy went into a tyrade about how he was being singled out for being black. You could hear it all over the dock. Next thing I know, the head manager comes out and relieves my friend. I havent seen him working the floor since.

This is getting out of control. If a white guy were to act like that, he'd be stamped a racist and never get a job again. Seriously, a black professor (Like the one at UNC can call for the extermination of the white race, and no reprecussions ensue... yet if it were reversed, a white professor would be stripped of his credentials.

Between Affirmative action, progressivism, and African American scholarship foundations... not to mention countless stories like the one my friend was put through... how long is this going to continue and when does it end? How long is every supposed to just sit by and let this reverse racism happen before the white race becomes the minority and we get singled out and removed for crimes committed 100 years ago? How long before we have numbers stamped on our arms and shipped off to die? How long are we to wait?:preachon:

I am not a racist. I know plenty of good people who are African American... but as history shows us, it only takes a couple of screwballs like Jesse Jackson to ruin everthing. I don't like racism, white on black, or YES BLACK ON WHITE etc.

[Systemofa Noun]

Between Affirmative action, progressivism, and African American scholarship foundations... not to mention countless stories like the one my friend was put through... how long is this going to continue and when does it end?


Until we finally grow some and put our foot down. People in corporations who are giving into people like Jackson who sues them for his own profit in the name of racism, need to say enough is enough! Grassroots organizations need to start up and counteract this crap that is ruining our country. Brainwashed indivduals who think that everytime you make a negative comment about a black or minority needs to wake up and stop this shit. As long as we have a biased media who never show the huge racism coming from minorities....until people stop being afraid, it won't go away, it will get worse. It's tyranny, and I for one am sick of it!

Oh and by the way, you didn't have to put "I am not a racist". We need to stop doing that too. We have to stop apologizing for speaking our mind and exercizing our right to criticize.

[Karly]

I was just talking about this last night with my brother. To me I think its because for some reason society thinks you have to tip toe around black ppl for the years of their being opressed. Personally I couldnt give two shits.

[Nocturnal]

The paranoia over being labeled a racist is pretty shitty. Especially when there is real racism out there. The people who cry foul over little bullshit should be ashamed of themselves.

Rest easy though, I don't think whites will be put into concentration camps anytime soon.

On a side note, I find the number of government contracts that can only be given to Minority owned business (which includes women) to be BS. Especially since most of the work winds up in the hands of regular companies anyway. Usually a small minority firm will win the contract, and then sub the work out to the big boys. So there is a reward there just for being a minority, AND the desired effect of giving work to different groups of people fails. Lose/lose.

[kevinsmith]

The paranoia over being labeled a racist is pretty shitty. Especially when there is real racism out there. The people who cry foul over little bullshit should be ashamed of themselves.

Rest easy though, I don't think whites will be put into concentration camps anytime soon.

On a side note, I find the number of government contracts that can only be given to Minority owned business (which includes women) to be BS. Especially since most of the work winds up in the hands of regular companies anyway. Usually a small minority firm will win the contract, and then sub the work out to the big boys. So there is a reward there just for being a minority, AND the desired effect of giving work to different groups of people fails. Lose/lose.

Well, I for once agree with most of what you said. How about that. I honestly expected you to come in here saying we were over reacting and what not. :)
Racism will forever be a problem in this country until the government decides its not necessary to single out any one race for special treatment. That only breeds contempt, and envy and anger, which, in turn, breeds racism.
Out of curiosity, since I've never been a huge fan of the term "African American" to descrive black people since their family might not necessarily be from Africa, since a white guy from South Afric would technically be African American and other inadequecies in the term, I was wondering how black people are referred to in Europe?

[Nocturnal]

^ I think OP was over reacting though. ;)

Probably they just use "black", which is what we mostly use. I've never been a fan of XXXXX-American labels. Maybe for first generation immigrants, but beyond that it's silly. I can sympathize to a point, I imagine there is a bit of bitterness over the whole slavery and discrimination thing.

I do believe that most racism is not due to AA though. A lot of it is learned, each generation passes on some of it's bias. The key is to recognize which of your reactions have a racist flavor and try to not let it affect your behavior.

[Papero]

Well, one step is white people need to start doing something about this problem.

No one will, black people pack heat, therefore the problem will never be fixed.

[Burningnun]

I was wondering how black people are referred to in Europe?

Black people, coloured (which is frowned upon now). Most people I know seem to say "You know the guy who's... uh... y'know..."

They really don't seem to like saying black, if they do they seem to need to apologise for it by saying they're not racist.

That might just be my area though.

[Deamatix]

The paranoia over being labeled a racist is pretty shitty. Especially when there is real racism out there. The people who cry foul over little bullshit should be ashamed of themselves.

True dat yo.

A lot of young black people today have no appreciation for what they are given to try and help them get out of America's toilet bowl. They have never lived in the days that they would have been second class citizens and told to live with it.

People just need to have the balls to say it to his face "You're out of here! Not because you're black. It's because you're lazy, unproductive, and I'm not going to pay you to stand here and smoke".

[Sketcher]

I've never been a fan of XXXXX-American labels. Maybe for first generation immigrants, but beyond that it's silly.

Yup. I knew a black guy back in high school who was offended whenever someone called him African American since his family was originally from Jamaica. I think anyone who was born in America and whose parents were born in America are American, plain and simple. I guess if your first gen American, you can get away with calling yourself XXXXX-American.

My university has a Black Engineers Club. Why? Why can't there just be an Engineers Club, especially since 90% of our engineering students are non-black? We allow so much reverse discrimination and we are afraid to fight against it due to us being labeled "racist".

ANY organization, program, etc that caters to a particular race and/or leaves out a particular race is in fact racist.

[droogsteve]

Probably they just use "black", which is what we mostly use. I've never been a fan of XXXXX-American labels. Maybe for first generation immigrants, but beyond that it's silly.

Funny story: in Colorado a couple of years ago, there was a scholarship offered to "African-American" students. The word "black", which I assume is now on the list of 8 million words that race-baiters consider offensive, was not mentioned. A winner was picked based on grades, and you guessed it, he was a first generation WHITE immigrant from South Africa. An Afrikaner who was now an American citizen, undeniably an African-American. :lmao:

Of course, everyone lost their minds, the scholarship was quickly revoked, and the language changed to specify race. The white African was given some sort of piss-ant little grant in compensation.


Speaking of scholarships, Boston University's College Republicans are offering a Caucasian American scholarship. To apply you must have a 3.2 GPA and submit two essays, one detailing your ancestry, and the other about "what it means to be a Caucasian-American today".

http://www.dailyfreepress.com/media/storage/paper87/news/2006/11/21/News/Bu.Group.Offers.White.Scholarship-2505837.shtml?norewrite200701041157&sourcedomain=www.dailyfreepress.com


The scholarship is only for $250, and is meant to point out the unfairness of race-based scholarships. One of the College Republicans explains it very well in the article:


"I guarantee that once this happens, be ready for hypocritical charges of racism, and be ready to be attacked," Mattera said, "but once they attack you, the hypocrisy is exposed."

[YouEnjoyMyself]

I think it's important for minorities to have general groups like the NAACP, to try and make sure that their smaller numbers have as large a voice as possible.

But I have to agree with the general consensus here, that these clubs like "black writers", "Asian reporters", etc, they just promote keeping people apart. I'm a minority and I know whites are the majority, but my fear of discrimination doesn't stop me from mingling and being in organizations with whites. I feel that's the best way to ensure equality, to jump into the mix and make your voice heard.

edit: I had a white friend born in South Africa...he'd brag about being African-American :D

edit 2: We've got a lot of race problems in this country. I'm not sure what the answer is, because I think all sides are pretty dramatic about some issues, and on others they have great points. It's really going to take a lot of compromise and discussion between all to try and fix this, if it can be fixed. I hope the race problem isn't a situation where one group (whatever race) is always going to be getting shit on.

[Liberator13]

Funny story: in Colorado a couple of years ago, there was a scholarship offered to "African-American" students. The word "black", which I assume is now on the list of 8 million words that race-baiters consider offensive, was not mentioned. A winner was picked based on grades, and you guessed it, he was a first generation WHITE immigrant from South Africa. An Afrikaner who was now an American citizen, undeniably an African-American. :lmao:

Of course, everyone lost their minds, the scholarship was quickly revoked, and the language changed to specify race. The white African was given some sort of piss-ant little grant in compensation.

That's fucking bullshit. That's racism, pure and simple. He should have done something about that.

[Sketcher]

I think it's important for minorities to have general groups like the NAACP, to try and make sure that their smaller numbers have as large a voice as possible.

I agree that groups like the NAACP are necessary, but they are not doing what they should be doing. Instead of telling their fellow blacks to blame all their problems on whites, they should be encouraging them to work as hard as they can to get through their problems. The NAACP should exist for telling blacks things like this:

http://www.eightcitiesmap.com/transcript_bc.htm

[StCyril]

I agree with what you guys are saying...

My own story; I was in a Political science class. We were talking about Afirmative action and such. One kid (black obviously) praised it left and right and argued with anyone who tried to talk about how bad it is.
Well I started up by talking about my heritage. I'm Irish-American, my family is Roman Catholic, my great grandfather came over here in 1912. We've lived in the Socialist state of Massachusetts all our lives. never owned a slave, never descriminated against a black person. In fact, because my family was Irish, they were treated worse then most blacks living in the area. So why should be have to suffer because of this Bullshit?

The kid said because you are white. I didn't even let him say another word. I called him a racist. He was like, "What!?"

I said, "Yeah thats right, you think I should have to suffer because of the color of my skin you hypocritical racist!"

... The professor threw me out of the class.

[bergshadow]

Funny being on the other end of the stick doesn't seem to lend empathy for the overreactions of the other side.

Now that the emotions are felt, and the circumstances obvious, in some essentially trivial matter, a little forgiveness for what were called "overreactions" in more serious matters would be expected. But no, Jesse Jackson is a "screwball".

Many people here defend current American military behavior based on a presumed continuity with WWII virtues. In WWII, the Vatican requested that no black American soldiers be assigned to guard there. Iceland demanded - with a lot of noise and furor among Icelanders - that no black soldiers be allowed off base there. The American military cooperated fully with these and many other affirmative action demands, and instituted many of its own. And the American military has one of the best records of integration and fair treatment of races of any institution in the country.

The affirmative action programs favoring whites did not jsut vanish one day in the '60s. Their remains and residue are still here, and the racism behind them is still present, and the effects are still obvious and significant and damaging. This does not excuse "reverse descrimination", but it should temper the emotional overreactions and sense of panic visible in the OP.

There is no need to panic, man barricades, etc. Steady reason and reasonable pressure will wear off the idiocies. The whites are still running this show, anyway.

In my town, "African American" is supposed to refer only to black American descendents of slaves, who did not know what country they were from. Hence the continent designation, rather than the country. So South African Americans would be just that, also Somali-Americans, Egyptian-Americans, etc. They have a country, so they aren't "African" Americans. It's a significant matter and indicator of other significant matters, this loss of country and native origin, according to the theoreticians here, and it marks these blacks as a special group.

I think it's kind of complicated, and really silly if pushed, and certainly shouldn't be a category of law or legal entitlement, but there is reasoning somewhere behind it. I use black, white, red, yellow, brown, etc, if the need actually arises, and haven't heard much in the way of complaint to my face.

[StCyril]

In my town, "African American" is supposed to refer only to black American descendents of slaves, who did not know what country they were from. Hence the continent designation, rather than the country. So South African Americans would be just that, also Somali-Americans, Egyptian-Americans, etc. They have a country, so they aren't "African" Americans. It's a significant matter and indicator of other significant matters, this loss of country and native origin, according to the theoreticians here, and it marks these blacks as a special group.

I think it's kind of complicated, and really silly if pushed, and certainly shouldn't be a category of law or legal entitlement, but there is reasoning somewhere behind it. I use black, white, red, yellow, brown, etc, if the need actually arises, and haven't heard much in the way of complaint to my face.

There is a lot of intellegence in what you say... some of it however I do find to be quite a literary stretch.

At the time of slavery, I would agree that "African American" would have been appropriate. But in this day and age it is unfair to single one race out as such... and the circle goes on and on.

[kevinsmith]

... The professor threw me out of the class.

LOL...did he give you a reason?


Funny being on the other end of the stick doesn't seem to lend empathy for the overreactions of the other side.

Now that the emotions are felt, and the circumstances obvious, in some essentially trivial matter, a little forgiveness for what were called "overreactions" in more serious matters would be expected. But no, Jesse Jackson is a "screwball".

Many people here defend current American military behavior based on a presumed continuity with WWII virtues. In WWII, the Vatican requested that no black American soldiers be assigned to guard there. Iceland demanded - with a lot of noise and furor among Icelanders - that no black soldiers be allowed off base there. The American military cooperated fully with these and many other affirmative action demands, and instituted many of its own. And the American military has one of the best records of integration and fair treatment of races of any institution in the country.

The affirmative action programs favoring whites did not jsut vanish one day in the '60s. Their remains and residue are still here, and the racism behind them is still present, and the effects are still obvious and significant and damaging. This does not excuse "reverse descrimination", but it should temper the emotional overreactions and sense of panic visible in the OP.

There is no need to panic, man barricades, etc. Steady reason and reasonable pressure will wear off the idiocies. The whites are still running this show, anyway.



Not excusing the actions of the military in honoring the requests of the other countries, but at the same time, if we didn't honor their requests would the actions not be considered insensitive and rude when we are there as guests in another land? Sounds to me like a nasty catch 22.

As for the residue remaining, yes, unfortunately it does. But you know what programs like affirmative action, and black only scholarships and what not do? They give an actual issue for the racists to point at. Instead of just not liking black people, and sounding stupid for it, they can say they don't like black people because look at the free help they get where I can't get anything like that. As long as the government sanctions separating the races, even with good intentions, they will only prolong the equal reaction to their "positive" racism, and that's "negative" racism.

[Nocturnal]

LOL...did he give you a reason?



Not excusing the actions of the military in honoring the requests of the other countries, but at the same time, if we didn't honor their requests would the actions not be considered insensitive and rude when we are there as guests in another land? Sounds to me like a nasty catch 22.


IMO, if we are on your land, defending your nation from agression then you can suck it if you don't like our customs. (reference Gulf1 Saudia Arabia also)

[kevinsmith]

IMO, if we are on your land, defending your nation from agression then you can suck it if you don't like our customs. (reference Gulf1 Saudia Arabia also)

Really? So you don't think us acting the way we always do when in another land defending it qualifies us as being the typica "Ugly Americans"?

[Nocturnal]

Really? So you don't think us acting the way we always do when in another land defending it qualifies us as being the typica "Ugly Americans"?

I don't think stuff like that is how we get those labels.

Also modern Icelanders would not feel that way. They would look back and say "damn, those Americans were right, we were dickheads for being racist".

[kevinsmith]

Also modern Icelanders would not feel that way. They would look back and say "damn, those Americans were right, we were dickheads for being racist".

I would certainly hope so.

[Jim Colyer]

It is time for white people to stand up.

[kevinsmith]

It is time for white people to stand up.

Nah...I'm comfortable where I'm sitting now.

[baumy300]

Just wait, the revolution will come...


Hey man, we have always been tight. You remember that when you go beating down whiteys door.

[Karly]

Droog brings up a great point- how come when Charlize Theron won teh Oscar no one said - South African Actress wins the Oscar- but when Halle Berry won it was this HUGE deal like we should have been planning a ticker tape parade for her.

Such bullshit.

[Poser Park]

It is time for white people to stand up.

I can't tell if this remark was sarcasm, or serious.


But if you say what you mean, then you sir are another racist Republican.

[Sketcher]

Droog brings up a great point- how come when Charlize Theron won teh Oscar no one said - South African Actress wins the Oscar- but when Halle Berry won it was this HUGE deal like we should have been planning a ticker tape parade for her.

Such bullshit.

I was thinking the same thing. Remember, you're only African American if your black...:rolleyes:

[dead]

Well, I for once agree with most of what you said. How about that. I honestly expected you to come in here saying we were over reacting and what not. :)
Racism will forever be a problem in this country until the government decides its not necessary to single out any one race for special treatment. That only breeds contempt, and envy and anger, which, in turn, breeds racism.
Out of curiosity, since I've never been a huge fan of the term "African American" to descrive black people since their family might not necessarily be from Africa, since a white guy from South Afric would technically be African American and other inadequecies in the term, I was wondering how black people are referred to in Europe?
from african origin.

[kevinsmith]

So, if you were talking about someone, say, someone asks you this bike belongs to, you in turn would reply "That person of African origin over there."?
What if he was born in London? Is he still of African origin? How far back should we take it when we are talking about of origin? One generation? Two? 20? How about "that person over there, of cave origin"? since we are all originally from cavemen? Or for creationists "That person of Eden origin over there."
Yes, I'm being facetious, but get the point? Why do we only have to say somewhere of origin with black people? Why is it okay to say "the white guy over there." but if we use the term black we feel like Kramer will come up to us saying "right on buddy, join the club!"?

[Sketcher]

So, if you were talking about someone, say, someone asks you this bike belongs to, you in turn would reply "That person of African origin over there."?
What if he was born in London? Is he still of African origin? How far back should we take it when we are talking about of origin? One generation? Two? 20? How about "that person over there, of cave origin"? since we are all originally from cavemen? Or for creationists "That person of Eden origin over there."
Yes, I'm being facetious, but get the point? Why do we only have to say somewhere of origin with black people? Why is it okay to say "the white guy over there." but if we use the term black we feel like Kramer will come up to us saying "right on buddy, join the club!"?

Exactly. Why can't we describe people by skin color? We describe people by all their other attributes, so why is skin color so sensitive? To me, calling someone black is as harmless as calling someone a redhead.

[dead]

So, if you were talking about someone, say, someone asks you this bike belongs to, you in turn would reply "That person of African origin over there."?
What if he was born in London? Is he still of African origin? How far back should we take it when we are talking about of origin? One generation? Two? 20? How about "that person over there, of cave origin"? since we are all originally from cavemen? Or for creationists "That person of Eden origin over there."
Yes, I'm being facetious, but get the point? Why do we only have to say somewhere of origin with black people? Why is it okay to say "the white guy over there." but if we use the term black we feel like Kramer will come up to us saying "right on buddy, join the club!"?
Yeah that's our correct media. way
But it's more like :
People from north African origin caused riots in Paris.

but we mostly use here the country from which they origin.
Surinamese Antillean and maroc.
Luckily we don't have a great blame culture on the white man,
only the Surinamese are holding yearly a event to remind us of slavery.

[Systemofa Noun]

I said, "Yeah thats right, you think I should have to suffer because of the color of my skin you hypocritical racist!"

... The professor threw me out of the class.

I bet if that black kid said that to you, the professor wouldn't have thrown him out.

[StCyril]

The funniest thing is... African Americans or "blacks" here are minorities... heh, they're just as much a minority IN Africa. Northern Africans look more like Arabs then blacks. West Africans have fair skin, and South Africa is dominated by a white populus, they may not be the majority, but there is a vast percentage of them. So yeah... the only "true" africans are the ones from central africa, you know the ones that are ALWAYS at war and debilitated with Aids.

http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2005/10/21/formerncsuprofcallsforexterminationofwhitepeople/

[Cur67]

The paranoia over being labeled a racist is pretty shitty. Especially when there is real racism out there. The people who cry foul over little bullshit should be ashamed of themselves.

Rest easy though, I don't think whites will be put into concentration camps anytime soon.

On a side note, I find the number of government contracts that can only be given to Minority owned business (which includes women) to be BS. Especially since most of the work winds up in the hands of regular companies anyway. Usually a small minority firm will win the contract, and then sub the work out to the big boys. So there is a reward there just for being a minority, AND the desired effect of giving work to different groups of people fails. Lose/lose.

I disagree with you on many things, but not here. QFT

[Viet Era Marine]

What if he was born in London? Is he still of African origin? How far back should we take it when we are talking about of origin? One generation? Two? 20?




Why stop there? We are ALL desended from Africa. :eek:

Earliest Man Here (http://www.masai-mara.com/mmmaa.htm)

Racism is such funny shit, it just jumps up
and bites your azz when you least expect it.


Regards,
VEM

[dead]

Why stop there? We are ALL desended from Africa. :eek:

Earliest Man Here (http://www.masai-mara.com/mmmaa.htm)

Racism is such funny shit, it just jumps up
and bites your azz when you least expect it.


Regards,
VEM
good point let's refer to everyone from African origin that would beat the racism issue once and for all .

[Sketcher]

good point let's refer to everyone from African origin that would beat the racism issue once and for all .

Blacks wouldn't want that though, because they want to be separated. See, this is what I don't get - they whine and complain about racism and then they go and actually separate themselves.

[YouEnjoyMyself]

Blacks wouldn't want that though, because they want to be separated. See, this is what I don't get - they whine and complain about racism and then they go and actually separate themselves.

I think we're all guilty of that, we all separate ourselves in a way. Look at many communities, you'll often find races keep themselves apart. Look at dating, not many people date other races. There are lots of was people keep themselve apart...I think in a way it sucks, but in a way it's natural. I don't really see it as an issue.

And you speak about Blacks like they all want that.

[whocares]

Yeah, it's natural. To separate themselves... whites do it too... it also happens in dating like BigMatt said... I don't see anything wrong with that.

[kevinsmith]

I think we're all guilty of that, we all separate ourselves in a way. Look at many communities, you'll often find races keep themselves apart. Look at dating, not many people date other races. There are lots of was people keep themselve apart...I think in a way it sucks, but in a way it's natural. I don't really see it as an issue.

And you speak about Blacks like they all want that.

Yeah, it's natural. To separate themselves... whites do it too... it also happens in dating like BigMatt said... I don't see anything wrong with that.

But, and this is where it gets tricky, white people don't advertise, don't promote that separation anymore. And this all goes back to the core issue we are discussion. You have various groups for minorities, and that's considered fine, but of the advancement of the races. But to have an all white organization, that would immediately be called racist. It's inherently hipocritical.

[YouEnjoyMyself]

But, and this is where it gets tricky, white people don't advertise, don't promote that separation anymore. And this all goes back to the core issue we are discussion. You have various groups for minorities, and that's considered fine, but of the advancement of the races. But to have an all white organization, that would immediately be called racist. It's inherently hipocritical.

I think the fault for this is on whites. Why don't you create, or why hasn't an organization been created, that is for the advancement of the white race without being racist? Correct me if I am wrong, please, but every group I've seen that wants to promote the white race has been more about bashing other races and Jews, instead of promoting themselves.

Whites have made white pride more about hate than actual pride, or at least that's the appearance they've given.

I really see nothing wrong with being proud of your race. I think it's silly to have groups that are racially inclined, but deal with groups of people...I mean groups like "Black journalists", "Mexican Farmers"..whatever, you get the point. But as far as larger groups go, so be it. Just make your group about pride, not hate. That's the problem I've seen with most White "pride" groups, they are founded on hate instead of pride.

[kevinsmith]

I think the fault for this is on whites. Why don't you create, or why hasn't an organization been created, that is for the advancement of the white race without being racist? Correct me if I am wrong, please, but every group I've seen that wants to promote the white race has been more about bashing other races and Jews, instead of promoting themselves.

Whites have made white pride more about hate than actual pride, or at least that's the appearance they've given.

I really see nothing wrong with being proud of your race. I think it's silly to have groups that are racially inclined, but deal with groups of people...I mean groups like "Black journalists", "Mexican Farmers"..whatever, you get the point. But as far as larger groups go, so be it. Just make your group about pride, not hate. That's the problem I've seen with most White "pride" groups, they are founded on hate instead of pride.


That is part of the prolem, is that nutbar white people have turned being proud of being white into a racial sounding emotion. As such, any white organization will automatically be assumed to have racist goals, and some zealot from the other side will call it such. And once you are labeled racist, it's pretty much all over, even if its not true, just like a politician being accused of impropriety. It can be found to be false, but once the accusation is out there, it's too late.
Here's another example. The Southern Flag. For most people it automatically implies racism and slavery, when the flag for many other people stands for pride in your past, your heritage. But because that past has a nasty part, the flag is a no no.

[YouEnjoyMyself]

Well then it seems you have yourselves to blame for allowing those extremist organizations, and for allowing that image of white pride to be falsely related to racism.

People relate dirty tricks and name-calling to politics, and they vote on it. Now who's fault is it that they vote based on that, the people? Or is it the fault of the politicians, campaign managers and the various others involved in giving politicians face time? People will vote (or in the case at hand, make decisions) based on what they are presented.

As for the Southern flag, I've found only people ignorant to history, and the ideals that the Confederates had, are the only people to have a beef with it. Granted, there are unfortunantly a lot of people who feel that way, but it's chalked up to ignorance. There is certainly nothing wrong with being proud of living in the South, or being proud of states' rights. The flag doesn't mean "I hate niggers".

[bergshadow]

But, and this is where it gets tricky, white people don't advertise, don't promote that separation anymore. But there is a reality here, as well as marketing, and the reality is that in the US (and other places, but one at a time) such promotion and separaion is not necessary: it's an accomplished fact.

Legacy admissions to the best schools, for example.

Look at the complaint above, about Black Engineers groups being unwarranted because there are few black engineers anyway. Hello? Shouldn't the story about the fuck-off justifying himself by race ring a bell there, as to what it's like being (or trying to be, when you're young and unsure) a black (or red, or female) engineer?

We have two issues. One is the marketing, the PR, the racial category as public relations issue, the anti-defamation stuff and self labeling issues and all the BS.

The other is a reality, in which one self-recognized and self-identified race holds trumps in the power cards, as a direct consequence of racial categorization past and present. 400 years of racism backed by brute force of arms and ready, serious violence, that created essentially every institution we live under now, and that has not gone away.

One place they cross is in childhood, when the direct experiences of power relations (the black kids own your school, say, or the white kids call you nigger and mean it) do not match the power relations of the political world. Just as children do not always see the truth in "study hard, it's worth it", becasue it is in fact not immediately true in their lives, so the racial truths of childhood need to be outgrown, often.

And we do need to deal, somehow, with the reality. Affirmative action violates fundamental principles of American political structure - but so does the institutional and political legacy of racism. This legacy is not marketing, PR, or BS. It is as real as the blood lead levels of the black kids in every large eastern city in the US.

[Sketcher]

Look at the complaint above, about Black Engineers groups being unwarranted because there are few black engineers anyway. Hello? Shouldn't the story about the fuck-off justifying himself by race ring a bell there, as to what it's like being (or trying to be, when you're young and unsure) a black (or red, or female) engineer?

No, my reasoning behind why there shouldn't be a black engineers club was because it promotes segregation of people by the color of their skin. My point about there being few black engineering students at my school just meant to mean that they are alienating 90% of the engineering population for this club. It makes as little sense as creating a Redhead Engineering club. It should just be a club for all engineering students to be a part of. That's it.

[bergshadow]

My point about there being few black engineering students at my school just meant to mean that they are alienating 90% of the engineering population for this club. They think it's worth it. Any idea why?

And how is it that the vast majority of engineers feel "alienated" by one little club with only a few members?

[Sketcher]

They think it's worth it. Any idea why?

Because they falsely believe that they wouldn't make it otherwise. Why else would they not allow non-blacks in?

And how is it that the vast majority of engineers feel "alienated" by one little club with only a few members?

Stop putting words in my mouth. I never said the non-blacks feel alienated. I said that they ARE alienated from the club - which is true. Why have two clubs - one with blacks, and one with everyone else - when we can have one? They're all engineering students, they all take classes together, they all work together in the work force, why have different clubs? Why separate them?

It's segregation, plain and simple. I don't see how anyone to claims to be anti-racist can support it.

[GlobeWanderer]

there will always be one person who doesnt like something and turn it into controversary man

[bergshadow]

Because they falsely believe that they wouldn't make it otherwise. Why else would they not allow non-blacks in? Is that what they said, when you asked them?
I said that they ARE alienated from the club - which is true. They're alienated from a lot of clubs, in that sense of the term. Apparently this one feels different, for some reason, despite its few members and irrelevance to their concerns.
Why have two clubs - one with blacks, and one with everyone else - when we can have one? Depends. Who's "we"?

[Sketcher]

Is that what they said, when you asked them?

You asked me, so did you assume I asked them? That's the only logical answer I have. Why else would a club exist that practices racial discrimination?

They're alienated from a lot of clubs, in that sense of the term.
If that alienation is due to racial discrimination, then I'm against it. Aren't you? Did you seriously just try to justify it by pointing out that it's a common thing? Wow.

Depends. Who's "we"?

Your fucking kidding, right? I'm talking about the school. Here, I'll say it in plain and literal terms: Why can't the school have a single engineering club for all the engineering students, instead on one for blacks and one for everyone else?

[kevinsmith]

Well then it seems you have yourselves to blame for allowing those extremist organizations, and for allowing that image of white pride to be falsely related to racism.



Allowing? Well, it's not tolerated by general society, hence these groups having to be rather subversive, but by saying "allowing" are you implying you want the government to step in and outlaw those groups? Will equally hateful minority groups be included in that breaking up?
As for your statements of the flag, they are right on. Unfortunately, it doesn't matter if most people know that it doesn't stand for racism. A few loud people say it does, so anyone flying it is automatically labeled a racist. We have a state senator from my town who flies the confederate flag at his home. Again, standing for state's rights like you said. But the state media branded him a racist because of the flag. Doesn't matter if most people know it not to be the case, a few think it, so it's not tolerated. Minority (less people, not minority race wise) rule this country any more. All that has to happen is a few people say they are offended, and action is immediately taken.

But there is a reality here, as well as marketing, and the reality is that in the US (and other places, but one at a time) such promotion and separaion is not necessary: it's an accomplished fact.


Just curious, what would you first think if you heard about a white engineering students association? Would you immediately assume racism? Would you be against it?

[bergshadow]

Why can't the school have a single engineering club for all the engineering students, instead on one for blacks and one for everyone else? The answer to that question would be found in the answer to the question of why the black students of engineering formed a club.

If you can't think of a reason, maybe you should ask them. So far, your proposed reasons (becasue they think they can't "make it" without one, etc) sound a bit unlikely, to me.

Just curious, what would you first think if you heard about a white engineering students association? Would you immediately assume racism? Would you be against it? Yes, in most cases I would immediately assume racism until shown otherwise. Because it would be redundant, if it were not racist, in normal circumstances - most engineering students' associations will be white ones (and male ones) in fact unless otherwise specified, and to specify a white one in the middle of the white ones implies bigotry in the motives.

Because of the facts of the situation: we are not dealing with abstract notions of racial equivalence, self-labeling, PR, etc.

Now if this association were formed at Howard University, my assumptions of racism would be suspended. I would extend the benefit of the doubt, and await further information.

[Sketcher]

If you can't think of a reason, maybe you should ask them. So far, your proposed reasons (becasue they think they can't "make it" without one, etc) sound a bit unlikely, to me.

No, actually it's very likely. Why do we have ANYTHING that caters to blacks only? It's because they feel that it will counter racism. But what they aren't realizing is that it IS racism.

The black engineers club is an old one - dating back to when mass segregation and racism towards blacks did exist. It only exists today because no one has dismantled it yet - something that really needs to be done. It has no reason to exist anymore.

[bergshadow]

The black engineers club is an old one - dating back to when mass segregation and racism towards blacks did exist. Segregation and racism toward blacks exists now.
No, actually it's very likely. Why do we have ANYTHING that caters to blacks only? It's because they feel that it will counter racism. But what they aren't realizing is that it IS racism. So when I asked you who "we" meant, it did not after all include the members of the black engineers club.

Or do they consider their club as "catering" to them?

You may be wrong about what the members of the black engineers club realize, and think, and consider to be the reasons for the existence of their club. And your objections to the club depend heavily on what the motives and circumstances of its members actually are. Why don't you ask them?

[Danny Lee]

A mate was telling me once how he was once listening to the radio and they had halle berry on (the stupid bint), and they were talking about taxi's (or something) and one of the hosts said a sentence of some kind which simply contained the description 'that black guy'. Apparently halle berry then turned and said 'Excuse me? Are we having a racist moment here?'....

After she was gone the host in question had a rant about racism sensitivity and PC'ness.

The end.

[Sketcher]

Segregation and racism toward blacks exists now.

You know damn well what I mean. Re-read. I said MASS segregation. The club was formed back when the civil rights movement was going on. That's why it existed in the first place. It IS NOT NEEDED NOW.

So when I asked you who "we" meant, it did not after all include the members of the black engineers club.

Yes, it did. Re-read my post. I said "we" meant the school. They are part of the school.

You may be wrong about what the members of the black engineers club realize, and think, and consider to be the reasons for the existence of their club. And your objections to the club depend heavily on what the motives and circumstances of its members actually are. Why don't you ask them?

I have a simple yes or no question for you: Do you believe that national non-private clubs/organizations should exist that only allow certain races to join?

Here's the thing. You seem to think that they need their own club. If that's the case, then their reason would obviously to try to help those affected by racism. Then why not allow ALL minorities in? Why only blacks?

[bergshadow]

The club was formed back when the civil rights movement was going on. That's why it existed in the first place. It IS NOT NEEDED NOW. It seems to be wanted now. Could it be that the reasons it was created still apply? Or new ones have come around?
Here's the thing. You seem to think that they need their own club. They seem to think they need a club, for some reason. What do they say those reasons are?
If that's the case, then their reason would obviously to try to help those affected by racism. Then why not allow ALL minorities in? Why only blacks? Have you tried asking them? What seems obvious to you might not be what they are thinking at all.
"So when I asked you who "we" meant, it did not after all include the members of the black engineers club. "

Yes, it did. Re-read my post. I said "we" meant the school. I know what you claimed, but then I read that following post and responded to it.

I don't think you can fairly criticise other people over what you have simply decided are the reasons and motives for their actions. They may ahve a much different view of even the basic situation. And their view may be better informed. You won't know unless you ask.

[Sketcher]

They seem to think they need a club, for some reason. What do they say those reasons are?
Have you tried asking them? What seems obvious to you might not be what they are thinking at all.

Stop asking me to ask them. My University is closed until the 24th. And even then, I'm an art student. I have almost no contact with the engineering students.

And you seem to have failed to answer my simple yes or no question...

[Zooch]

I'm not a racist, thats whats so insane about it

[sweet]

I remember in English once we were reading a poem that was from the 20's written by a black man and it said negro in it and this black girl got all mad and said thats racist. We also had a flava group at our school which was just about black culture but we can't have a white group now can we.

[Asbestos Crayon]

Welcome to the corporate world. If your are over qualified, white looking, or male, you might as well give up on what you have trained for and pick something you don't want to do and no body else will. This is me by the way. I ended up educating my self out of jobs and HR's fix it so no one like me can get a job. But they will hire an Indian national at the drop of a hat with a degree from a second rate school or even a fake degree to cut corners.

[burb]

He who shouts loudest..... and with time he will be heard....

[StCyril]

He who shouts loudest..... and with time he will be heard....

If that were true... John Kerry's voice would have been heard around the world when he started humping Jane Fonda's leg and started talking about how soldiers comitted Atrocities... when he never actually saw any of it...