Mexican truckers , busy street, wrong gate

[Cur67]

Actual citizenship not verified but,

two separate Hispanic truck drivers with limited English attempted
to enter a lumber yard through the wrong entrance
where many customers were loading.
This caused a bit of a problem on a busy street. An assistant yard foreman
ran out into the street and climbed up to the drivers window each time to redirect the drivers to the proper gate.
Passing motorists squealed tires and honked. And made unsafe passing moves.
One man in a pickup wearing a cowboy hat even flipped off the
assistant yard foreman.
No accidents occurred and the assistant yard foreman was polite and courteous
to the drivers. Unloading them quickly and wishing them safe travel after
signing the paperwork and sending them on their way.
His immediate supervisor considered this very amusing since he knew the man
to be extremely anti -NAFTA (among other things)

but , we need to leave personal beliefs behind when at the workplace , right?

but damn! like it or not we must have bilingual signs and bilingual skills!
Things are changing and we must deal with safety issues!
This shit is getting a bit worrisome.














and if I ever catch up with that fucking cowboy that flipped ME off . . .
yeah like it was MY fault :mad:

true story and shitty 10 hr day, first day back from vacation.

but,
I don't know why I take some political issues so personally.


EDIT- I want to make it clear about the safety bit.
I'm not kidding. We need to learn Spanish and have bilingual signs. This
is not a surrender it's a reality. There will NOT be a Great Wall of the Southwest,
There will not be a rapid or even INTELLIGENT solution to the current immigration
policy. We need to press hard for SAFETY issues only right now!
Mexican truckers are now on our highways, accept it, and forget about any
militia type nonsense and get to the polls! write letters! protest! but stay
peaceful and intelligent.

On a side note , the second trucker (who was actually the bigger hassle)
was a nice fellow and assisted with stack boards for the bundles I unloaded.
Some of the truckers do this, but they don't have to.

Some Mexicans are pricks, some cowboys are . . .
hell , I've been known to be advised to use viagra nasal
spray ' cause I was being a dickhead.

[Viet Era Marine]

Actual citizenship not verified but,

two separate Hispanic truck drivers with limited English attempted
to enter a lumber yard through the wrong entrance
where many customers were loading.
This caused a bit of a problem on a busy street. An assistant yard foreman
ran out into the street and climbed up to the drivers window each time to redirect the drivers to the proper gate.
Passing motorists squealed tires and honked. And made unsafe passing moves.
One man in a pickup wearing a cowboy hat even flipped off the
assistant yard foreman.
No accidents occurred and the assistant yard foreman was polite and courteous
to the drivers. Unloading them quickly and wishing them safe travel after
signing the paperwork and sending them on their way.
His immediate supervisor considered this very amusing since he knew the man
to be extremely anti -NAFTA (among other things)

but , we need to leave personal beliefs behind when at the workplace , right?

but damn! like it or not we must have bilingual signs and bilingual skills!
Things are changing and we must deal with safety issues!
This shit is getting a bit worrisome.














and if I ever catch up with that fucking cowboy that flipped ME off . . .
yeah like it was MY fault :mad:

true story and shitty 10 hr day, first day back from vacation.

but,
I don't know why I take some political issues so personally.


Sorry your 1st day back on the job sucked.

But, we don't need bilingualism, we need Mexico to quit flooding
this country with illegals and when they come here legaly, they
need to learn to read / write / speak English.

The US IS NOT the northern povidence of Mexico.
Nor is it the 9th Chinese Regional Area.
Nor is it the Westernmost Area of Vietnam.

Sorry, but this crap just pisses me off.

Did you know that folks can get a drivers license in my State
with the help of a TRANSLATOR!! I kid you NOT!
Our DMV can't seem to figure out how this could possibly be a
problem.

Perhaps you could drop them a note.

Regards,
VEM

[Capt_Canada]

Why should americans adapt to them?

[Cur67]

Why should americans adapt to them?

In plain Englese - because our government has fucked us and we have no choice.

adapt, survive

and fight for a better solution by all legal means.

[Hawks9718]

In plain Englese - because our government has fucked us and we have no choice.

adapt, survive

and fight for a better solution by all legal means.

There will be no better solution if we continue to allow the government to BOHICA (bend over here it comes again) us all the time, like you suggest. My god, your a conservative... act like it.

[JaneEyre]

If I recall, and I read it a long time ago, Mexican immigration laws are very strict on who they allow into the country. In fact, you can only come in for a certain amount of time (visitation) and if you stay past that time you can be arrested and sent to prison (not jail).

You can not get actual citizenship in Mexico unless you've been living there for over 5 years and have either invested in the country or have a sports/art background (or are married to a mexican citizen). But, even that doesn't garantee that you can become a citizen. They have special passports for the non-citizen residents who live there.

I'm not sure why the countries expect us to be more lax to their citizens coming here...then their own immigration policy is.

[droogsteve]

I'm not kidding. We need to learn Spanish and have bilingual signs. This is not a surrender it's a reality. There will NOT be a Great Wall of the Southwest,There will not be a rapid or even INTELLIGENT solution to the current immigration


If you're serious about having Americans learn a foreign language so the goddamn border jumpers won't run us over, then change the "angry conservative" in your user ID. You're a fucking disgrace to conservatives everywhere.


If this is one of those threads meant to bait people and then make your real point (which I believe it is), cut the shit. They're lame, tiresome, and lead to pointless flaming.

[Devastation]

but damn! like it or not we must have bilingual signs and bilingual skills!I am not going to learn Spanish. I am not going to bend over backwards and adapt to them. They are coming into our country, they need to adapt to us.

[Cur67]

If you're serious about having Americans learn a foreign language so the goddamn border jumpers won't run us over, then change the "angry conservative" in your user ID. You're a fucking disgrace to conservatives everywhere.
Ever hear the expression "know thy enemy'? (but, that actually applies more to our own govt). General Sam Houston had to send for 2 of his men to translate when discussing terms of surrender with prisoner Santa Anna. That is a missing skill if he would have corrected , I think, if he had seen all that was coming.


If this is one of those threads meant to bait people and then make your real point (which I believe it is), cut the shit. They're lame, tiresome, and lead to pointless flaming.

No sir, Maybe I sounded a bit defeatist with my previous posts, but
I am unable to shout "the Mexicans are coming" like Paul Revere warned of the British. All I can say is they are already here! And the safety problem I see supersedes some of my other beliefs. And I worry that anyone who tries to fight "an all or nothing" battle will lose. You can't fight on all fronts at once.
You need to pick battles you can win. And public safety is a real and immediate issue. This is a pony that can be trotted out that even hard core libs could be hard pressed to argue with. Or maybe you and others would think better of me if I had spouted angry rhetoric about a "goddamn border jumper" creating a hazardous situation. Sure, we need more stuff like that so all "conservatives" can be more easily branded racist in the court of public opinion. Which is where this battle will be fought.

AND
No, I wasn't flamebaiting, I was drinking and speaking from the heart like I tend to do. I am worried and think we need to fight smart, one item at a time. I expect many bans and have often thought about getting prem for that "leniency" bit I read about, lol, I'll probably need it.

edit- as for making a "real point" I didn't have one at first, just confusion and concern after seeing some of what we will face (are facing) up close.

PS Happy St. Patttys day

[Fish_Bone]

Whatever happened to being condescending by yelling at mexicans and putting an "O" at the end of each word? That americanized pseudo-spanish seemed to work for the past 50 years, but not anymore. The America I grew up in is gone... :(

[JaneEyre]

El righto.

[Spike Lee]

If you're serious about having Americans learn a foreign language so the goddamn border jumpers won't run us over, then change the "angry conservative" in your user ID. You're a fucking disgrace to conservatives everywhere.


If this is one of those threads meant to bait people and then make your real point (which I believe it is), cut the shit. They're lame, tiresome, and lead to pointless flaming.

You are not learning a language the sign will have two languages.

[Burningnun]

How do you interpret the term, "bilingual skills" Spike Lee?

[Hawks9718]

You are not learning a language the sign will have two languages.

I'm gonna travel to every country in the eastern hemisphere and demand that english be recognized as a second language and all offical signs and government documents be printed in english... I'll let you know how far I get :rolleyes:

[Spike Lee]

I'm gonna travel to every country in the eastern hemisphere and demand that english be recognized as a second language and all offical signs and government documents be printed in english... I'll let you know how far I get :rolleyes:

I don't care how far you get, other countries are not bilingual like us. But it is pretty dumb to have a hazard because people are stubborn.

[Viet Era Marine]

I don't care how far you get, other countries are not bilingual like us. But it is pretty dumb to have a hazard because people are stubborn.



That response of your's was farily obscure. Could you
clarify what you actually said? Are you FOR Bilingual or
Against Bilingual? Thanks.

Regards,
VEM

[Master. kirby]

I don't care how far you get, other countries are not bilingual like us. But it is pretty dumb to have a hazard because people are stubborn.

actually the reason we have the hazard is because people here arn't stubborn enough, think about that.

[Spike Lee]

That response of your's was farily obscure. Could you
clarify what you actually said? Are you FOR Bilingual or
Against Bilingual? Thanks.

Regards,
VEM

I'm saying that it sucks we have to cater (although I don't care as much), but just because we refuse to change our way of life for others by not having bilingual signs, that does not mean we have to endanger the lives of people for it by not having these signs.

We are hurting people by trying to prove a point to foreigners.

[YouEnjoyMyself]

That response of your's was farily obscure. Could you
clarify what you actually said? Are you FOR Bilingual or
Against Bilingual? Thanks.

Regards,
VEM

And that's a pretty obscure question.

Are you for or against bilingual education? For or against it being forced on people? For or against bilingual signs? For or against business forced to put up bilingual signs? For or against safety signs being bilingual?

Being bilingual is a great thing, but it shouldn't be forced on people. As for the safety of the public, if a bilingual sign will ensure that, go for it. I'd much rather see the public safe than show a small sign of disapproval to those who do not speak English. And I don't see that as a move that will negate any kind of progress made to keep America speaking English, foreigners who don't want to learn English will not be stopped by signs being in English only - they'll just ignore things even further.

[Karly]

My dear, you dissapoint me. Fuck those goddamn no speaky the english spics. I'm puertorican and even I dont think our country should conform to anyone, learn english or go back to your fuckin country.
On another note- sorry your day sucked.
*Hugs for you*

[kevinsmith]

I agree with VEM, mamichulli et. al. on this one. If I were to go into another country and live without their permission, and then dare to tell them how they should change to cater to me, I would be considered the typical ugly American. Why is it however, that other people can come here and do that? Why does Mexico expect us to change our immigration laws to be even more lax than their own, instead of looking within to fix their nation so perhaps their own people wouldn't feel compelled to flee? I guess it's easier to blame others than to look at oneself.

[Spike Lee]

If I were to go into another country and live without their permission, and then dare to tell them how they should change to cater to me, I would be considered the typical ugly American.
You are saying that the illegal immigrants only are the ones requesting bilingual signs. Not true, because legal immigrants request them as well.

Why is it however, that other people can come here and do that?

Canada?

Why does Mexico expect us to change our immigration laws to be even more lax than their own, instead of looking within to fix their nation so perhaps their own people wouldn't feel compelled to flee?
One, less ristrictive immigration laws would actually lead to less illegal immigrants since it would be make it easier to be a legal resident than an illegal.
I guess it's easier to blame others than to look at oneself.
You can blame the North American Free Trade Agreement as well as corporations and greedy politicians on both sides of the border and political parties.

This is not a black and white issue.

[Karly]

Kevin- I always go back to my grandparents and my dad as an example. They all came here form Puertorico didnt know a drop of english- my grandpa taught himself english in 2 weeks in order to get a job and be a productive citizen here- he was a nutritionist at Metropolitan hospital. My grandmother learned in about a month or so- and she worked as an asst manager at teh old Wise chip company in the Bronx and when my dad came here he immediately enrolled in some classes in Manhattan in order to conform to our way of life here in America- he eventually began to work for Merrill Lynch as a broker. I feel sorry for no one, you come to my country- you play by my rules. If people are so gung ho about there cultural identities why in fucks name are they all flocking here? Stay in your goddamn country then.

[Spike Lee]

When you say culture what the fuck does that mean? Language? Because as I see it, no one has to accept any culture in this country. I don't have to eat apple pies and love baseball. Granted I need to learn my shit to survive like learn English, but I don't need to adopt the stale culture of a white majority.

[Asbestos Crayon]

So what is your point? English speaking and reading people go in exits all the time. English speaking and reading truck drivers block traffic all the time.

[Spike Lee]

I don't think it matters I mean, most signs are based on symbols.

[Fish_Bone]

It's too late, the infection has quickly and seemlessly blended in with most of the body. The south west of the United States is pretty much Spanish America like far eastern Canada is French Canada. The question is, will this cause America to go down the same dead-end road Rome did.

[Karly]

the whole spanish speaking thing is ridiculous already. I went to toys r us a few weeks ago and the casheir was spic, and since i'm p-rican- I look it- she starts speaking to me in spanish, so i just gave her a face of confusion and told her i didnt speak spanish. I mean seriously- it just irked me something bad.

oh and the whole cultural thing- yes you should conform to the american way of life, after all isnt that why everyone and their dog comes here?? if life was so good elsewhere why did they come here to begin with?

[Spike Lee]

No, no one needs to comform to anything. Learn English to survive, fine. But no I will not ignore my religion and swith to Protestantism and I will not love baseball . I will not pledge my life to any of that. I will be my own individual and fuck what the white christian conservatives think about it. I disagree with them and live my life to my own accord because I live in the USA. In the USA I can do that.

And she talked to you in Spanish because she thought you knew. Since you didn't she moved on and charged you toys.

[Karly]

And she talked to you in Spanish because she thought you knew. Since you didn't she moved on and charged you toys.

she spoke to me in spanish cause she's a shmoe.
also- if you detest all this country was built upon perhaps you shouldnt be here. its all good if you wanna be you, but their is some sort of conformity that has to occur when you want to be here.

[Spike Lee]

she spoke to me in spanish cause she's a shmoe.
also- if you detest all this country was built upon perhaps you shouldnt be here. its all good if you wanna be you, but their is some sort of conformity that has to occur when you want to be here.
If anything you should be the one that should leave. I mean you don't believe in the freedom of speech or religion. You want us to be apple pie eatinf, baseball loving people. No, this country was founded on the true principal of not wanting to pay taxes. To me the real founding fathers dream was to live a life with little government influence on the individual. Never did I say I detested it and your response on the person that spoke Spanish to you means that you don't accept a little friendliness from people.

[kevinsmith]

You are saying that the illegal immigrants only are the ones requesting bilingual signs. Not true, because legal immigrants request them as well.

No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying it would be wrong for me to move to a country, legally or illegally, and then make everyone else change to suit me.



Canada?

Eh?
Seriously though, what?


One, less restrictive immigration laws would actually lead to less illegal immigrants since it would be make it easier to be a legal resident than an illegal.

And if you raise the speed limit, I won't be speeding anymore. Is that what we should do with all laws that are being broken? Just change 'em so it's not against the law anymore. You know, that pesky murder thing has prevented me from doing a lot I've wanted to....


You can blame the North American Free Trade Agreement as well as corporations and greedy politicians on both sides of the border and political parties.

This is not a black and white issue.
Everything isn't about blame, dude. That's another problem with politics these days. No one really cares about FIXING anything, they just want to place as much blame as possible.

And as for "assimilating" no one expects you to love baseball. I'd like it however, as I'm a huge baseball fan. ;) Seriously though, at least what I expect is to learn the language that everyone does business in, and while you may feel free to continue to revel in your culture, don't be offended when I do the same.



EDIT: Dude, I think you're a little paranoid about what everyone "wants" from you. We just want people to lighten the fuck up, shut the fuck up, and quit shoving their culture in our face while expecting us to abandon ours. Why is everyone's culture so important but our country's?

[Spike Lee]

The laws regarding immigration are extremely unfair and made to keep Hispanics out. People migrating from Europe have a much easier time now, unless they are Muslim.

[bergshadow]

Immigration laws have no particular reason to be "fair".

[Karly]

Spike- that idiot heard me speaking english into my cellphone- why in fuck would she speak to me in spanish? Cause I looked spic? I'm in America and I speak english as should everyone else.

[kevinsmith]

The laws regarding immigration are extremely unfair and made to keep Hispanics out. People migrating from Europe have a much easier time now, unless they are Muslim.

Spike- that idiot heard me speaking english into my cellphone- why in fuck would she speak to me in spanish? Cause I looked spic? I'm in America and I speak english as should everyone else.

Hmm...just thought of something.
If a white cop saw a brown skinned person and assumed they spoke spanish, there would probably be an ACLU lawsuit or something.

[Spike Lee]

So you assume I care for the ACLU? No. I don't. And mami, she probably thought you knew both languages like I myself do. And sometimes when people bitch about people not knowing English, they did learn but thier accent is terrible. Immigration laws have been set in place not to protect this country but to appease the xenophobes who still believe that the USA will meet the same fate as Rome.

[Viet Era Marine]

It's too late, the infection has quickly and seemlessly blended in with most of the body. The south west of the United States is pretty much Spanish America like far eastern Canada is French Canada. The question is, will this cause America to go down the same dead-end road Rome did.




Well now, THAT IS the $64,000.00 question.

A Balkinised US, I could sure do without.

Regards,
VEM

[Cur67]

The laws regarding immigration are extremely unfair and made to keep Hispanics out. People migrating from Europe have a much easier time now, unless they are Muslim.

Bullshit, they got carte blanche practically.

And that is my point.

They are ALREADY here. We need to prepare, adapt, and
address the safety issue first.

And I do not think anyone should be FORCED to learn that fucking language
any more than someone should be FORCED to wear a coat in a fucking snowstorm! Your choice, deal with the changing climate as you will.

side note- how ya doin Steve? like my new user title? does it fit with your
perspective on labels? Like I said in another thread we will soon all wear the
same label- FUCKED. But please continue with the "all or nothing" thoughts,
it draws sooo many people to the cause.

[bergshadow]

Immigration laws have been set in place not to protect this country but to appease the xenophobes who still believe that the USA will meet the same fate as Rome. So?

There is no entitlement to immigration - we don't have to take any immigrants at all.

[Bergs]

So?

There is no entitlement to immigration - we don't have to take any immigrants at all.

I agree 100%. And if we do take immigrants, we have every right to set certain requirements for their immigration, such as learning the common language.

[Fish_Bone]

The laws regarding immigration are extremely unfair and made to keep Hispanics out.

Plus I remember in High School that the SATs had a cultural bias.

On the critically acclaimed television series Frasier, what was the name of Niles Crane's ex-wife?

A) Natalie

B) Maris

C) Janice

:mad:

[TFS]

No, no one needs to comform to anything. Learn English to survive, fine. But no I will not ignore my religion and swith to Protestantism and I will not love baseball . I will not pledge my life to any of that. I will be my own individual and fuck what the white christian conservatives think about it. I disagree with them and live my life to my own accord because I live in the USA. In the USA I can do that.

And she talked to you in Spanish because she thought you knew. Since you didn't she moved on and charged you toys.

As is gangstas and bling or low riders and serbesas or egg rolls and zodiacs aren't all stale. Fuck you for the stereotyping, dude. Grow the fuck up. This country does not consist of WASPs trying to "convert the savages" and put a baseball glove on their hands anymore.

And she talked to mamichuli in Spanish because she's ignorant. She's not ignorant because she speaks Spanish or prefers it, but because she assumed that just because he looks the part he speaks it too.

I can't count the times telemarketers have called my home, speaking to me or my family in Spanish just because they see on their little list of personal info about my family that our last name ends in an O. I'm a fucking descendant of a whop, not a spic, and I take offense to the assumption that anyone speaks Spanish just because they have a tan or a name with an O at the end of it. If you don't see what's wrong with people making that kind of assumption, then you just don't fucking get it. I live in America. I am American. Our official language (and yes, it is actually official) is English, and even if it wasn't, it's no secret that it is the language spoken by the vast majority. You have no fucking clue if I'm from another country originally, or even if I've ever had a different residence than the one I'm at now. Where the fuck do you get off assuming I speak Spanish at all, let alone fluently or as a first or preferred language? And where the fuck do you get off not considering the fact that there are other ethnicities besides Hispanic that regularly have Os at the ends of their names? I guess I could tolerate it back when I lived in Florida, but even after moving to Colorado and then going to Columbus, Ohio for school, it still happens.

It's a fucking disgrace. It's pathetic and ignorant of these people to make that assumption about someone just because of their spelling of their name or because of their skin tone and hair color that they speak Spanish.

And not to downplay the ignorance of the girl mamichuli encountered, but in my case, I'm not even hispanic, and they were invading my fucking home, not just my nation, my PRIVATE RESIDENCE with their ignorant and racist assumption.

[Fish_Bone]

And she talked to mamichuli in Spanish because she's ignorant. She's not ignorant because she speaks Spanish or prefers it, but because she assumed that just because he looks the part he speaks it too.

^^I also find it annoying. But then again, the "O" at the end of my last name is spanish. I'm an American. I don't know spanish and I wasn't born in Mexico like my dad (and because he became a legal citizen later, he truly is a Mexican-American). I'm about as mexican as Carlos Mencia Ned Holness. And having seen pictures of mamichuli, she is a hot sexy Puerto Rican woman. A total MILF DILF. She would turn any gay man straight.

[TFS]

^^I also find it annoying. But then again, the "O" at the end of my last name is spanish. I'm an American. I don't know spanish and I wasn't born in Mexico like my dad. I'm about as mexican as Carlos Mencia Ned Holness. And having seen pictures of mamichuli, she is a hot sexy Puerto Rican woman. A total MILF DILF.

But what's worse: assuming someone who looks the part speaks Spanish, or assuming that a name with an O means that person speaks Spanish, let alone fluently enough to do business over the phone?

If you were Italian by ancestry, and that happened to you, wouldn't you be pissed about it?

[Spike Lee]

Whatever point you were trying to make seems to have gotten lost on me. Aren't you one of the culture warriors that bitches about the world being PC? I don't nor am I complaining about stereotyping at the level of the cashier did to mamichuli's spic ass.

[Viet Era Marine]

Spike Lee: You seem to think that having immigrants
learn English or adapt to the American culture is
somehow 'rolling over' for the WASPS?

Did I get that correct?

Let me ask this, how many languages do you speak /
read / write? Now, why do I ask that?

Here's why: It's 30-40 years from today and you want
to go visit a friend in San Francisco and one in Seattle.
Well, with the current trends, you had better speak/
read/ write Spanish & Chinese both. Because if you
don't, you're going to have a hell of a time getting around.

Does that story sound silly? I couldn't be any closer to the
truth if I tried. Don't think so? Walk around anywhere in East
LA and try communicating in English, good luck with that.

And here's the kicker, once the language base changes, you
no longer have a nation of 'United' States, you have a different
country. How long do you think it will take before you need a
passport to visit the American southwest?

And that, my little chickadee, is what pisses me off about folks
that will not assimilate.

Regards,
VEM

[Fish_Bone]

But what's worse: assuming someone who looks the part speaks Spanish, or assuming that a name with an O means that person speaks Spanish, let alone fluently enough to do business over the phone?

If you were Italian by ancestry, and that happened to you, wouldn't you be pissed about it?

No, I wouldn't be pissed. I'd be all giddy and start talking to them in stereotype Asian gibberish. But this isn't about me. This is about you and mamichuli getting back together despite your different racial ethnicity.

On a serious note, I actually have had people mistake me for being Italian. It's fun. I pretend to get mad and say things like "just because my family is from Mexico, doesn't mean we're all Italian. Some of us are Greek or even Jewish."

[Spike Lee]

Spike Lee: You seem to think that having immigrants
learn English or adapt to the American culture is
somehow 'rolling over' for the WASPS?

WASPS?
Did I get that correct?
No?
Let me ask this, how many languages do you speak /
read / write? Now, why do I ask that?
English/Spanish

Here's why: It's 30-40 years from today and you want
to go visit a friend in San Francisco and one in Seattle.

That is not at all what is happening. Pamphlets, signs and other things are written in both English and Spanish. If you are referring to people not knowing English at all, that will not happen since people coming to America know that they will need English in order to survive.

Well, with the current trends, you had better speak/
read/ write Spanish & Chinese both. Because if you
don't, you're going to have a hell of a time getting around.
Again, that is not happening.

Does that story sound silly? I couldn't be any closer to the
truth if I tried. Don't think so? Walk around anywhere in East
LA and try communicating in English, good luck with that.
I live in Texas. A majority minority state. I don't seem to have that problem.

And here's the kicker, once the language base changes, you
no longer have a nation of 'United' States, you have a different
country. How long do you think it will take before you need a
passport to visit the American southwest?
Again I think this is exaggerated.
And that, my little chickadee, is what pisses me off about folks
that will not assimilate.
I believe that people shoul learn the language but I am aware that people exxagerate the mood of the southwest.

[TFS]

Whatever point you were trying to make seems to have gotten lost on me. Aren't you one of the culture warriors that bitches about the world being PC? I don't nor am I complaining about stereotyping at the level of the cashier did to mamichuli's spic ass.

That's the problem: you're not complaining about it, you're trying to excuse it.

You should be concerned about it because you're doing it. You're pretty much saying that no US citizen has the right to be upset at these people for the changes they are inflicting on our lives and saying we have no right to expect any changes made by them in their lives.

You're condoning the bullshit assumption that ethnic looks or names automatically implies the speaking of a different language or being in a different culture other than WASP while at the same time targeting WASPs as being oppressive simply for wanting to maintain their culture in a land that is for all intents and purposes their homeland.

That's the problem here: Americans aren't allowed to defend their way of life from this flood of change being forced on us by immigrants, some even being illegal? But it's ok for immigrants to come here, from their homeland and expect everything to be adjusted to them and them to not have to change at all? That's horse shit. Especially when these changes come into my home via an already unwelcome method of intrusion.

Honestly, what is the message being sent here when I get calls from people trying to sell me shit in Spanish and I'm not hispanic but my name is ethnic? That MY heritage is not as important as theirs? That MY heritage isn't good enough to get the special attention theirs gets? There were multitudes of Italian immigrants coming into this nation a century ago that were met with just as much hostility socially as Mexicans get today, but you didn't see them entering illegally in droves or trying to force change or demand bilingualism.

If anything, because of the behavior of the immigrants, I think Italian, German, French, and Russian all deserve candidacy as second languages before Spanish. They all brought a working class willing to put aside where they came from in order to get themselves, as citizens, somewhere better, whereas from Mexico and Puerto Rico and Cuba, all we really get is people trying to colonize Miami, the Southwest, and New York for shitty islands and deserts that these assholes don't seem to remember weren't worth being in anymore for a reason because they want to turn where ever they wind up into where ever they came from, and don't give a damn about what other cultures that were here long before theirs they spit on in the process.

So if that makes me a fucking culture warrior because I feel assaulted by what I consider an onslaught of ignorance and prejudice in which my culture that I grew up in, as well as the heritage of my ancestors who helped fucking build New York, is considered not important enough for the same special treatment these Hispanic jackasses get for mowing a fucking lawn and cleaning a goddamn pool or stock shelves at Wal-Mart, then yeah, I'm a culture warrior and proud of it.

This is NOT Mexico. This is NOT Puerto Rico. This is NOT Cuba. This is the USA. We speak English here. It is the language we do everything in, from learning, to business, to socializing. It is the language people who are born here are exposed to from day 1. If someone from another goddamn country decides to come here, great, awesome, welcome, that's what built this nation. But if they think that welcome mat is an invitation to change the way we did things before they got here because they made the conscious decision to step into a nation they knew had a different language and culture ahead of time, they are mistaken. That is not at all fair to the people who were born here, nor the people who come here and make the adjustments to fit into our system and add to it in a constructive way. No one's asking you to abandon your culture for ours, but don't expect us to abandon ours for yours. But we do ask that you learn our language. It's only fair since you CHOSE to come here. It's not like we do like we did in Africa before the Civil War and go down to Mexico and drag people here against their will.

At the end of the day, I'm happy to have immigrants coming here because it's what made this nation. But on the same note, we're at a point now where whether they come or not won't make or break us. We'll be fine, in fact considering our population growth, we might even be better off without them simply for the sake of living space. So for any immigrant to think that special concessions should be made for them by people who don't need them and are not forcing them to join them is fucking retarded and unacceptable.

You call it xenophobic, I call it sensible. You call yourself compassionate, I call you ignorant of the basic facts of right and wrong surrounding this. The facts are no one forced them to come here, and no one here really needs them to get by. Past generations did not have this kind of bombardment of another culture trying to inflict massive sweeping and sudden change in the average way of American life with such blatant disregard of the culture(s) and language that was here well before theirs throughout the construction of this nation and culture. It's ignorant to mistakenly assume someone of ethnic appearance speaks a certain language other than English in the US. It's downright offensive to call someone up in their private residence and assume they speak something other and English because of how they spell their name, especially when they assume wrong. It may not be physical, but it is still forced entry. They forced their way into my home only to make an ignorant assumption. And God knows I'm not the only American with Italian ancestry with an O at the end of his name who gets these calls.

How very hypocritical of you to sit here and accuse people of xenophobia and yet brush off the blatant racism this white protestant receives just for answering his fucking phone simply because he's in the majority population of this nation. It's people like you who help keep this nation divided along lines of race and ethnicity.

[Spike Lee]

You should be concerned about it because you're doing it. You're pretty much saying that no US citizen has the right to be upset at these people for the changes they are inflicting on our lives and saying we have no right to expect any changes made by them in their lives.


No I'm not. I have said before that if you want to survive, then you better learn English.

You're condoning the bullshit assumption that ethnic looks or names automatically implies the speaking of a different language or being in a different culture other than WASP while at the same time targeting WASPs as being oppressive simply for wanting to maintain their culture in a land that is for all intents and purposes their homeland.

Stereotyping in this case was ignorant but at the same time innocent.

That's the problem here: Americans aren't allowed to defend their way of life from this flood of change being forced on us by immigrants, some even being illegal? But it's ok for immigrants to come here, from their homeland and expect everything to be adjusted to them and them to not have to change at all? That's horse shit. Especially when these changes come into my home via an already unwelcome method of intrusion.
What the fuck is being forced on americans? Language? Okay, I'll "give" into that but what is being forced onto Americans?

Honestly, what is the message being sent here when I get calls from people trying to sell me shit in Spanish and I'm not hispanic but my name is ethnic? That MY heritage is not as important as theirs?
I have no idea where you even got that conclusion.
That MY heritage isn't good enough to get the special attention theirs gets? There were multitudes of Italian immigrants coming into this nation a century ago that were met with just as much hostility socially as Mexicans get today, but you didn't see them entering illegally in droves or trying to force change or demand bilingualism.

Yes, immigrants came here legally and they had a much easier time compared to what the process is now. They had to cross an ocean to get here and easily got here legally. But it is nearly fucling impossible for immigrants from Mexico to get here legally. Now tell me, did the population of Mexico that wants to come here seem to not understand how to come here legally? No, compare the restrictions and process of immigrating here from then to now.
If anything, because of the behavior of the immigrants, I think Italian, German, French, and Russian all deserve candidacy as second languages before Spanish. They all brought a working class willing to put aside where they came from in order to get themselves, as citizens, somewhere better, whereas from Mexico and Puerto Rico and Cuba, all we really get is people trying to colonize Miami, the Southwest, and New York for shitty islands and deserts that these assholes don't seem to remember weren't worth being in anymore for a reason because they want to turn where ever they wind up into where ever they came from, and don't give a damn about what other cultures that were here long before theirs they spit on in the process.
I have no idea where you even got this information. Who says that those in Miami did not come here to work? I can easily say the Germans and Italians that came here were colonizing NYC or Chicago.
So if that makes me a fucking culture warrior because I feel assaulted by what I consider an onslaught of ignorance and prejudice in which my culture that I grew up in, as well as the heritage of my ancestors who helped fucking build New York, is considered not important enough for the same special treatment these Hispanic jackasses get for mowing a fucking lawn and cleaning a goddamn pool or stock shelves at Wal-Mart, then yeah, I'm a culture warrior and proud of it.
What are you being assulted about? I mean literally you just seem to be in an uproar of something that is 30% reality and 70% hype.
This is NOT Mexico. This is NOT Puerto Rico. This is NOT Cuba. This is the USA. We speak English here. It is the language we do everything in, from learning, to business, to socializing. It is the language people who are born here are exposed to from day 1. If someone from another goddamn country decides to come here, great, awesome, welcome, that's what built this nation. But if they think that welcome mat is an invitation to change the way we did things before they got here because they made the conscious decision to step into a nation they knew had a different language and culture ahead of time, they are mistaken.
No one is changing shit. People who complain about this only cite the fucking example of fast food joints where they dont speak english. Other than that where the fuck are they refusing to speak English?
That is not at all fair to the people who were born here, nor the people who come here and make the adjustments to fit into our system and add to it in a constructive way. No one's asking you to abandon your culture for ours, but don't expect us to abandon ours for yours. But we do ask that you learn our language.
Again, I am pissed that people even mention culture, this is an issue about language. So people need to shut the fuck up about Mexicans or Ricans forcing culture down the American's throats. It's a fucking language argument. Let alone we are not replacing language period.



Past generations did not have this kind of bombardment of another culture trying to inflict massive sweeping and sudden change in the average way of American life with such blatant disregard of the culture(s) and language that was here well before theirs throughout the construction of this nation and culture.
That is fucking bullshit, when the Irish came here a big deal was made about catholics coming to this nation and spreading there faith. They made assimilation classes not just to change language but wanted them to be more like anglo saxon protestant citizens.
It's ignorant to mistakenly assume someone of ethnic appearance speaks a certain language other than English in the US. It's downright offensive to call someone up in their private residence and assume they speak something other and English because of how they spell their name, especially when they assume wrong. It may not be physical, but it is still forced entry. They forced their way into my home only to make an ignorant assumption. And God knows I'm not the only American with Italian ancestry with an O at the end of his name who gets these calls.


I'm gonna remember that the next time you bitch about Political Correctnes.
How very hypocritical of you to sit here and accuse people of xenophobia and yet brush off the blatant racism this white protestant receives just for answering his fucking phone simply because he's in the majority population of this nation. It's people like you who help keep this nation divided along lines of race and ethnicity.
Oh please its people overreacting about bullshit like this that sparks hatred into their hearts that is causing such a devide now.

[kevinsmith]

That is not at all what is happening. Pamphlets, signs and other things are written in both English and Spanish. If you are referring to people not knowing English at all, that will not happen since people coming to America know that they will need English in order to survive.

You sure about that? Like the lady who came in the other day looking for the DES office (it's down a few doors) who didn't speak a lick of English. Her sixish year old daughter had to translate for her.
How about the guys who were building my house a few years back. I went to meet my contractor there one day to check on progress, and I tried talking to the guys working. Again, no English. The contractor showed up and even told me that.
The point is, people DON'T think they need to learn English to get by, because they know people are pushing to have everything in two languages.

[Karly]

Kevin that is what irks me the most. You can come into my country and get welfare medicaid abnd foodstamps and apply for it in your own language!!! Are you kidding me?? That is totally unacceptable IMO. You want my tax dollars to support yourself but you dont even know the language of the land, I call bullshit. Also Kevin on a few occasions I have been in a store or at the dentists and some ppl will ask me to translate for someone- and I say no- I dont speak the language. Fuck that shit- my family came here and did it and no one fuckin had to help them because they helped themselves.

[kevinsmith]

Kevin that is what irks me the most. You can come into my country and get welfare medicaid abnd foodstamps and apply for it in your own language!!! Are you kidding me?? That is totally unacceptable IMO. You want my tax dollars to support yourself but you dont even know the language of the land, I call bullshit. Also Kevin on a few occasions I have been in a store or at the dentists and some ppl will ask me to translate for someone- and I say no- I dont speak the language. Fuck that shit- my family came here and did it and no one fuckin had to help them because they helped themselves.

One good thing about our "culture" is that it has spread throughout the world. The bad thing about our culture, is that is has spread throughout the world. One of the bad parts of our current culture is this mentality of entitlement. People seem to think they are entitled to whatever they want without having to earn it. That mentality has permeated the nations around us, creating people who move to our country, expect us to cater to them. It's unfortunate.

[Karly]

Wow Kevin that is exactly what I was talking about with my husband the other day, that ppl seem to have that sense of entitlement like "oh you HAVE to do this for me just because". Get out of my head.

[kevinsmith]

Get out of my head.

So many punchlines, so little time. :raiseeyeb

[Karly]

So many punchlines, so little time. :raiseeyeb

I knew I was setting myself up for something.

[kevinsmith]

I knew I was setting myself up for something.

Oh yeah baby...bow chicka bow wow!
Would this be a bad time to ask you speak spanish to me in bed?

[Karly]

Oh yeah baby...bow chicka bow wow!
Would this be a bad time to ask you speak spanish to me in bed?

I would ever so sweetly tell you " Vete pal carajo".
Translate that!

[Nocturnal]

You can come into my country and get welfare medicaid abnd foodstamps and apply for it in your own language!!! Are you kidding me?? That is totally unacceptable IMO. You want my tax dollars to support yourself but you dont even know the language of the land, I call bullshit. .

You sure about that? Like the lady who came in the other day looking for the DES office (it's down a few doors) who didn't speak a lick of English. Her sixish year old daughter had to translate for her.


I'm very sympathetic to the English standard, but first gen immigrants have typically kept speaking their own language. It was usually the second gen that made the cultural and lingual changes.

[Karly]

I'm very sympathetic to the English standard, but first gen immigrants have typically kept speaking their own language. It was usually the second gen that made the cultural and lingual changes.

My grandfather and grandmother (maternal) and my father are all 1st generation here. They all learned the language.

[Nocturnal]

My grandfather and grandmother (maternal) and my father are all 1st generation here. They all learned the language.

comendable, but I don't think it's the the historical norm, at least among older folk

[Karly]

comendable, but not the (historical) norm

yeah actually after I posted I realized you said "typically". and yeah its not the norm, but my family came here with the hopes of conforming and becoming Americanized. I say they did pretty well.

[Spike Lee]

Americanized? They learned English. Thats it! Thats all that this topic is about bot culture, so stop saying adapted. They learned Enlish and thats it.

[Karly]

Americanized? They learned English. Thats it! Thats all that this topic is about bot culture, so stop saying adapted. They learned Enlish and thats it.

No actually its not just learning english, its becoming accustomed to a whole different way of life. I would explain it to you the way my grandfather used to tell me, but you arent special enough for me to share my grandfathers views with you.

Your mom shoulda swallowed

[Spike Lee]

And so now it comes down to insults. So far its just a fuckin language deal and so far you have done nothing to say it is anything than that.

[Karly]

And so now it comes down to insults. So far its just a fuckin language deal and so far you have done nothing to say it is anything than that.

I'm not calling you names- simply stating an opinion. Its changing your way of life, not just a language. If it wasnt a change of life why do people come here- cuz life is so good for them elsewhere?

[Spike Lee]

What? So far its just relunctance to accept a language. Nothing else. Name something other than language that is being faught? And since we are sharing opinion. Your dad should of stayed in Puerto Rico.

[Karly]

What? So far its just relunctance to accept a language. Nothing else. Name something other than language that is being faught? And since we are sharing opinion. Your dad should of stayed in Puerto Rico.

Actually he wanted to- he loves his island, he came here because HE HAD to like alot of other people do. Are you a native american?? If not then guess what your fam came here just the same.

[Spike Lee]

What if I said yes?

[Karly]

What if I said yes?

But you didnt

[kevinsmith]

Spike,
If someone is unwilling to learn the language of the nation which they have moved, what is the likelihood you think of them actually inegrating into our society? I'm guessing instead they'll cluster in little groups that constantly grow until you have whole neighborhoods and even cities that are for all intents and purposes little annexes from the nation from which they came.

[Karly]

Spike,
If someone is unwilling to learn the language of the nation which they have moved, what is the likelihood you think of them actually inegrating into our society? I'm guessing instead they'll cluster in little groups that constantly grow until you have whole neighborhoods and even cities that are for all intents and purposes little annexes from the nation from which they came.

We have that here- its the South side of yonkers aka mini mexico

[kevinsmith]

We have that here- its the South side of yonkers aka mini mexico

All the big cities have them. China town, Little Italy, everything. And while it's only natural for people to want to be with others who share similar backgrounds and what not, it can be a little extreme. There, they don't have to learn English, become "American" to survive.

[Karly]

Spike,
If someone is unwilling to learn the language of the nation which they have moved, what is the likelihood you think of them actually inegrating into our society? I'm guessing instead they'll cluster in little groups that constantly grow until you have whole neighborhoods and even cities that are for all intents and purposes little annexes from the nation from which they came.

Why are you bothering to explain it. I mean seriously does he need a diagram?? I'm still waiting on whether or not he has a roll number or if his family also came over on a boat.

[Karly]

All the big cities have them. China town, Little Italy, everything. And while it's only natural for people to want to be with others who share similar backgrounds and what not, it can be a little extreme. There, they don't have to learn English, become "American" to survive.

No shit we even have mini Santo Domingo out here in Washington Heights.

[Spike Lee]

All the big cities have them. China town, Little Italy, everything. And while it's only natural for people to want to be with others who share similar backgrounds and what not, it can be a little extreme. There, they don't have to learn English, become "American" to survive.

Thanks kev, you have answered what I asked. And see it better now and have to say that I agree with you.


Why are you bothering to explain it. I mean seriously does he need a diagram?? I'm still waiting on whether or not he has a roll number or if his family also came over on a boat.
I'm not talking to you anymore since you insist on being a bitch about the whole thing and had to get kevinsmith to talk for you. He is the only one that I believe has answered my questions. He has finally established the link between learning the language and not accepting to be part of the American way. All you have done insult my mother and other bullshit. I refuse to speak to any stuck up bitch.

[Karly]

I am a stuck up bitch- where is the insult in there??

You needed someone to explain something to you like you were 2 years old in order to get it. Unreal.

[Spike Lee]

I'm done talking to you. So go off and insult me if you want just because your argument and rhetoric failed to answer what I asked. In reality you were the one who was more on and off than I was in this thread. I'm not gonna argue with the the result of a broken condom.
Peace.

[kevinsmith]

Hmm...I'm guessing this thread is dead, huh.

[Karly]

Actually I was wanted and planned. Isnt that great?

You failed to see the simple 2nd grade connection between learning the languge and everything else that goes with it. Are your cognitive thinking skills fully developed??

[kevinsmith]

Actually I was wanted and planned. Isnt that great?

You failed to see the simple 2nd grade connection between learning the languge and everything else that goes with it. Are your cognitive thinking skills fully developed??

I'll tell you something on me that's fully developed. :raiseeyeb

Oh, wait, this isn't a prem thread is it?

[Karly]

I'll tell you something on me that's fully developed. :raiseeyeb

Oh, wait, this isn't a prem thread is it?

You are a sick twisted man,and you need to take your mind out the gutter.

at least for now

[kevinsmith]

You are a sick twisted man,and you need to take your mind out the gutter.

at least for now

I was talking about my sense of humor.
Now who's mind is in the gutter, hmmmm?

[TFS]

Spike, my feelings that the message that my heritage is inferior comes from the fact that companies and groups are taking the time to make special arrangements to accommodate people who speak Spanish as a primary language for business purposes in a nation whose official language is English.

In doing this, they failed to consider the possibility (and reality) that a good chunk of other residents of the US have ethnic last names that end with an O much like the Hispanic last names often do. it only makes sense since both heritages are branches of Latin.

In not taking consideration of ethnic names that share a characteristic letter but not exact heritage, and then calling members of the descendants of Italians in their private residences only to speak to them with the ignorant assumption that they speak Spanish because of the spelling of their name, it sends the obvious message that they feel Spanish-speaking people are special enough to warrant special treatment, but not people who have ethnic names that don't speak it.

It is an insult to me and my heritage. Especially when, like Mami's ancestors, mine learned English and integrated immediately right off the boat and contributed positively to the American economy and history as Americans, not Italians living in the US. It is insulting that people take special care to cater to a group of people who widely actually promote illegal immigration and refusal to integrate and in the process lump members of other ethnicities in with them because of an O. What's worse is my sister just told me about being carded somewhere, and the person carding being Hispanic noticed her name (obviously same as mine) and assumed the O meant she spoke Spanish too and started speaking to her in it instead of English.

A fucking spic demonstrated ignorance as to what name is Hispanic as opposed to whop.

It's not innocent. It's lazy and irresponsible. How dare these assholes demand special attention when they can't even tell that a woman who looks more like a fair-skinned Irish woman )thanks to my mom's side) has an Italian name instead of a Hispanic name.

My family is not Hispanic and I feel insulted when Hispanics or telemarketers assume we are because of our ethnic Italian name despite us not looking Hispanic in the least.

Christ, this ignorance makes me think I could have applied for and gotten some significant grants for college from funds designated for Hispanics only.

[Karly]

TFS- our families learned and conformed because they had to - back then no one was bending over backwards to help out a lowly immigrant who didnt know the language. It comes back to what Kevin said about people having that sense of entitlement that they feel our country HAS to help them and HAS to communicate with them in their own launguage. Bitch please go back to your country.

[droogsteve]

The laws regarding immigration are extremely unfair and made to keep Hispanics out. People migrating from Europe have a much easier time now, unless they are Muslim.

But it is nearly fucking impossible for immigrants from Mexico to get here legally.


You must be joking.


The "it's harder for Mexicans to immigrate legally" argument is pure fallacy. In fact, they get treatment FAR preferential to any other nation. If you look at the stats, you'll see that there are 3.1 million permanent legal Mexicans in the US, more than any other nation of origin by a HUGE margin:


http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/shared/statistics/publications/LPRest2004.pdf

SIX TIMES more Mexicans were allowed to come here legally than the Number 2 nation, the Philippines, which has only half a million. Mexicans clearly get preferential treatment over all other nations when it comes to being allowed to emigrate to the US.

By why bother with facts when hysterical knee-jerk accusations of racism are so much simpler? :rolleyes:

If you are referring to people not knowing English at all, that will not happen since people coming to America know that they will need English in order to survive.

Bullshit. That's the way it USED TO be. That's the way it SHOULD be. That's not the way it is.

You can live comfortably your entire life here without speaking a word of English thanks to apologists like you. You can work in the one of the vast Spanish speaking communities here. You can get your welfare and food stamp forms in Spanish, and when dealing with any government agency, they will helpfully provide a translator. There is the sham of "bi-lingual" education, which in reality is nothing of the sort. It is not bi-lingual at all, just classes taught in Spanish in American public schools. Here in NYC, we even have Hostos College, a City of NY University school where all the classes are taught in Spanish. Imagine that, you can come to America and get a public college degree without speaking a word of fucking English! It's obscene.

Today in the supermarket I saw a package of toilet paper labeled in both English and Spanish. Is that just because the new immigrants couldn't figure out what it was otherwise? Of course not. It's simply pandering to the people who refuse to learn even basic English. By these actions we are encouraging people NOT to learn English.


And BTW, why do we only hear the Spanish speaking immigrants demanding these things? I have yet to hear anyone demand street signs in Russian. I have yet to see Filipino or Chinese immigrants demand public school classes taught in Tagalog or Mandarin. Why? Because when they come here, they quickly learn English. They don't demand that we change to suit them. Unlike the current crop of Hispanic immigrants.

I'm saying that it sucks we have to cater (although I don't care as much), but just because we refuse to change our way of life for others by not having bilingual signs, that does not mean we have to endanger the lives of people for it by not having these signs.

We are hurting people by trying to prove a point to foreigners.

Here's a simple solution to that dilemma: require a basic knowledge of English to get a driver's license. Problem solved.

It all comes down to the common courtesy that our parents (or at least mine) taught us when we were 5 years old: When you are a guest in someone's house, you respect their rules. It's that simple. You don't come to a new country and demand that they change to accommodate you.

I have no idea exactly when everything turned so completely ass-backward. The idea that my tax dollars should have to pay for Spanish signs so some immigrant won't run down my daughter is completely ludicrous. How about you just aren't allowed to drive in this country until you know enough English to do so safely? Jesus H Christ, that's just common sense. Unfortunately common sense is far from common these days.

[Karly]

Hey Steve, you know I was in Target the other day- the one by the 87- dude, all the signs inside the store like telling you which dept is which- were all in spanish. I walked in and walked out. I was so disgusted.

[droogsteve]

Hey Steve, you know I was in Target the other day- the one by the 87- dude, all the signs inside the store like telling you which dept is which- were all in spanish. I walked in and walked out. I was so disgusted.

You mean the one in Riverdale? I usually go to the one in Mt Vernon. The customers are all whites from Pelham and employees are all blacks from Mt Vernon. Both speak only English. :p

Ha, I love when you post about these things because they can't call you racist. ;)

[Karly]

You mean the one in Riverdale? I usually go to the one in Mt Vernon. The customers are all whites from Pelham and employees are all blacks from Mt Vernon. Both speak only English. :p

Ha, I love when you post about these things because they can't call you racist. ;)

hey thats not too far from me! I live over on bx river road on the border of yonkers and bronxville. have you gone to the target in white plains- that one is very nice. we dont like going to the one in mt. vernon all that much. plus walmart is right across the street so we go to both and get all our shopping done.

and hun you know i'm not racist i hate everyone equally.

[kevinsmith]

Here's a simple solution to that dilemma: require a basic knowledge of English to get a driver's license. Problem solved.

It all comes down to the common courtesy that our parents (or at least mine) taught us when we were 5 years old: When you are a guest in someone's house, you respect their rules. It's that simple. You don't come to a new country and demand that they change to accommodate you.

I have no idea exactly when everything turned so completely ass-backward. The idea that my tax dollars should have to pay for Spanish signs so some immigrant won't run down my daughter is completely ludicrous. How about you just aren't allowed to drive in this country until you know enough English to do so safely? Jesus H Christ, that's just common sense. Unfortunately common sense is far from common these days.


That all goes back to the sense of entitlement that I wrote about earlier. The spoiled little rich whores who got their own TV shows have spread their culture to countless people in the US and now beyond so that everyone thinks the world owes them a living.

[Viet Era Marine]

As much as I hate conspiracies and the theorists behind them,
this whole Multi-Cultural thing stinks to high heaven.

Who elected these PC assholes that are changing the way government
operates? Need a translator for a written Drivers License Test, no
problem. Will these same drivers have a problem reading the street signs,
no problem, we’ll change the sign! What absolute crap!

Oh, Spike Lee, did you think I was kidding about a Balkanized US?
Just read Mamachullis’ post. They WILL do it one store at a time.
Oh. one more thing, it’s apologists like yourself that are keeping the
door open for these dickheads to destroy this Nation.

Common language IS the bedrock of any National Identity and I
don't care if you like that fact or not. IT'S STILL TRUE!

Regards,
VEM

EDIT:

Tanto como odio la conspiración y los teóricos detrás de ellos, esta cosa multi-Cultural entera apesta al alto cielo. ¿Quién eligió a estos assholes de la PC que están cambiando la manera que el gobierno funciona? Necesite un traductor para una prueba escrita de la licencia de conductores, ningún problema. ¡La voluntad que estos mismos conductores tienen un problema que leen las muestras de la calle, ningún problema, nosotros cambiará la muestra! ¡Qué crap absoluto! ¿Oh, heces del punto, usted me pensó embromaba sobre un Balkanized los E.E.U.U.? Poste de Mamachullis leído justo. Lo harán un almacén a la vez. Oh. una más cosa, es los apologistas como usted mismo que están manteniendo la puerta abierta para que estos dickheads destruyan esta nación. El lenguaje común ES la roca de fondo de cualquier identidad nacional y no cuido si usted tiene gusto de ese hecho o no. ¡CSIGUE SIENDO VERDAD!

Respeto,
VEM

So, just how much of the Spanish version did you get?
Get the point?

[Karly]

VEM, I cant read spanish- damn you. But I do love you for that post.

You sir rule

[Viet Era Marine]

VEM, I cant read spanish- damn you. But I do love you for that post.

You sir rule



Thanks Mami. I just get tired of the PC crowd that
can never see past their own noses or down the
road 10 feet.

THEM: We're wining! Wheeee!

US: It's going to tear the Nation apart!

THEM: But, we're wining! Wheeee!
Contrarian logic is Funnnn! Wheeee!

US: Are you nuts? You're selling your
childrens country down river!

THEM: It's OK, we're wining! Wheeee!

Regards,
VEM

[Karly]

Thanks Mami. I just get tired of the PC crowd that
can never see past their own noses or down the
road 10 feet.

THEM: We're wining! Wheeee!

US: It's going to tear the Nation apart!

THEM: But, we're wining! Wheeee!
Contrarian logic is Funnnn! Wheeee!

US: Are you nuts? You're selling your
childrens country down river!

THEM: It's OK, we're wining! Wheeee!

Regards,
VEM

I love the way you explain your points of view. And yes I loathe and detest the PC crowd.

[kevinsmith]

I love the way you explain your points of view. And yes I loathe and detest the PC crowd.

Here's how you battle them: Tell them their views of non PC people are insulting to them, and hurts their feelings. Watch them explode like the fembots in Austin Powers when they try to wrap heir heads around that one.

[Karly]

Here's how you battle them: Tell them their views of non PC people are insulting to them, and hurts their feelings. Watch them explode like the fembots in Austin Powers when they try to wrap heir heads around that one.

HAHAHAHHAA!!!Oh my word- that is just dandy, if only my friend.

[TFS]

TFS- our families learned and conformed because they had to - back then no one was bending over backwards to help out a lowly immigrant who didnt know the language. It comes back to what Kevin said about people having that sense of entitlement that they feel our country HAS to help them and HAS to communicate with them in their own launguage. Bitch please go back to your country.

I believe you misunderstand a few things.

First and foremost, I am in MY country. Born in Pittsburgh, lived in 7 states and traveled to most of the rest in my 21 short years. Bitch please don't pull that card on me. I belong here.

Second, I'm on your side. People need to learn English to live here. My ancestors did back in the beginning of the 20th century when they came here out of necessity just like yours did. And while mine did have an easier time getting here than yours, you're mistaken if anyone bent over backwards once they were here.

My point is that in catering to one group, they insult all other groups because in a way they're declaring inferiority of every group that isn't catered to. That's not fair, so no group should be catered.

On top of that, it's pathetic that in their catering they don't care to take the time to figure out that my name, which most people figure out is Italian, is not Hispanic (especially when a Hispanic person makes this mistake). I find it offensive because as a person of Italian ancestry, it makes me feel like they're trying to tell me I'm inferior, and as an American (the important part here) they're telling me I should speak Spanish despite English being my primary language simply because a group of people don't feel like making the same changes that generation upon generation of immigrants, including my own relatives as well as yours have made. I take it as an insult to my lineage and to my nation's historical legacy.

Invading my own private residence to make that mistake only serves to rub salt in the wound.

So again: Bitch don't pull that shit on me. I'm an American born and raised, descended from immigrants and I am proud that they were a part of what built this nation and that they had such pride in their newfound citizenship to make the effort to adapt and prosper as Americans as opposed to foreigners living in America.

[Fish_Bone]

Tanto como odio la conspiración y los teóricos detrás de ellos, esta cosa multi-Cultural entera apesta al alto cielo. ¿Quién eligió a estos assholes de la PC que están cambiando la manera que el gobierno funciona? Necesite un traductor para una prueba escrita de la licencia de conductores, ningún problema. ¡La voluntad que estos mismos conductores tienen un problema que leen las muestras de la calle, ningún problema, nosotros cambiará la muestra! ¡Qué crap absoluto! ¿Oh, heces del punto, usted me pensó embromaba sobre un Balkanized los E.E.U.U.? Poste de Mamachullis leído justo. Lo harán un almacén a la vez. Oh. una más cosa, es los apologistas como usted mismo que están manteniendo la puerta abierta para que estos dickheads destruyan esta nación. El lenguaje común ES la roca de fondo de cualquier identidad nacional y no cuido si usted tiene gusto de ese hecho o no. ¡CSIGUE SIENDO VERDAD!

Respeto,
VEM

OH MY GOD THEY GOT VEM!!!!

The worst part about this, is that (supposedly) it isn't going to take too long before the flood becomes irreversible. Before the country suffers from asphyxiation (right now America has mild asthma). 20 years. Those are the statistics I keep hearing. I don't know how reliable those stats are, but one thing I do know is that my family (from my dad's side; my mom's side was here before the west was won) came here through the proper channels...and it kind of upsets me that millions tip-toe across and get away with it. It's like the next door neighbor getting dish satellite for free. The only reason I'm not full-blown pissed is because I know not all of these illegal immigrants are sneaking over here simply to spite us. When a kid steals food, sometimes it really is because he's starving. But still...

[Karly]

TFS- did you think I was ridiculing you and your post?

[YouEnjoyMyself]

Anybody got any solutions?

Seems we can all agree illegal immigration is a problem, but everyone is just complaining about how shitty things are or the crap that they've gone through in the past. How about some solutions?

To me it seems like we need to crack down HARD on businesses who employ illegals and we need to close down the border as much as possible. Which is much harder than I think people think. I live here on the border (well, 30 miles away, but I know what it's like) and I know the terrain is pretty rough and there is a lot of land. A wall? I don't know, I think if properly constructed it would do us a lot of good - but, what has our gov't done right recently? I have too little faith in our elected officials to even get the ball rolling for a wall. And I still have doubts on the effectiveness of a wall. But it's an idea we should look into. As far as patrols go, I can't speak for the rest of the border — but, I can say that we have a MASSIVE presence of Border Patrol here, as well as a lot of funding going to the State Police and the Sheriff's Department. We also have soldiers from the Georgia (and other states I believe) National Guard. We have FOUR government agencies, all with a huge presence, patrolling the border and the area around the border. All of these patrols and we still have coyotes smuggling people across and we still have people walking through the desert taking their chances. So what should we do? I think trying to answer that question will do more for solving this problem than complaining about how things have been.

And here is a fun fact for you all: El Paso is around ~90 miles east from my town. Juarez, Mexico is the city that shares a border with El Paso. Columbus, New Mexico is ~30 miles south from my town. Palomas, Mexico shares a border with Columbus. OK, so let's say that an illegal is picked up outside (or in) Columbus. That illegal has to be taken 120 miles to El Paso to be processed and to be given a medical check. 120 miles to be released into Juarez when Palomas is FOUR MILES AWAY!!

To me, it seems like this is a problem that only the citizens care about, and for some reason it's not trickling up into the minds of our elected officials.

[kevinsmith]

Anybody got any solutions?

Seems we can all agree illegal immigration is a problem, but everyone is just complaining about how shitty things are or the crap that they've gone through in the past. How about some solutions?

To me it seems like we need to crack down HARD on businesses who employ illegals and we need to close down the border as much as possible. Which is much harder than I think people think. I live here on the border (well, 30 miles away, but I know what it's like) and I know the terrain is pretty rough and there is a lot of land. A wall? I don't know, I think if properly constructed it would do us a lot of good - but, what has our gov't done right recently? I have too little faith in our elected officials to even get the ball rolling for a wall. And I still have doubts on the effectiveness of a wall. But it's an idea we should look into. As far as patrols go, I can't speak for the rest of the border — but, I can say that we have a MASSIVE presence of Border Patrol here, as well as a lot of funding going to the State Police and the Sheriff's Department. We also have soldiers from the Georgia (and other states I believe) National Guard. We have FOUR government agencies, all with a huge presence, patrolling the border and the area around the border. All of these patrols and we still have coyotes smuggling people across and we still have people walking through the desert taking their chances. So what should we do? I think trying to answer that question will do more for solving this problem than complaining about how things have been.

And here is a fun fact for you all: El Paso is around ~90 miles east from my town. Juarez, Mexico is the city that shares a border with El Paso. Columbus, New Mexico is ~30 miles south from my town. Palomas, Mexico shares a border with Columbus. OK, so let's say that an illegal is picked up outside (or in) Columbus. That illegal has to be taken 120 miles to El Paso to be processed and to be given a medical check. 120 miles to be released into Juarez when Palomas is FOUR MILES AWAY!!

To me, it seems like this is a problem that only the citizens care about, and for some reason it's not trickling up into the minds of our elected officials.

The politics of the issue cloud the ability to come up with solutions. Could a wall work? I guess. But suggest it, and you are slapped with a racist label from several groups. Say you are against illegal immigration, and they slap you with the same label again, and leave out the word "illegal" when they talk about what you are against.
Don't believe it? It's happening in my town. My city just passed an ordinance that to bid on city contracts, you better be able to show that all your employees are legal residents. The ACLU sent a letter saying they will challenge it, and Hispanic groups have raised fears of "profiling." Well shit, that's a nice way out of it. Is it really illegal "profiling" when 99 percent of our illegal immigrants here are from latin nations? We haven't been getting the others much. We had one guy from the Ukraine once(who was arrested for a DUI with a bac of over .3 by the way. Damn!) It's the political bullshit is what's keeping the government from acting. They know if they do anything to stop it, that will likely be their last term in office.

[_Joe]

Anybody got any solutions?

Don't concede, don't help them out by Spanglizing the whole nation. If they want to live here, they can either learn Ingles or get along without it (which doesn't work out that well usually.)

[YouEnjoyMyself]

It's the political bullshit is what's keeping the government from acting. They know if they do anything to stop it, that will likely be their last term in office.

I think too many people in government are benefiting (yes, benefiting) from illegal immigration to do anything about it. Too many businesses thrive on illegal work, and those benefits are passed on to some crooks in Congress. Not only that, but we have politicians on both sides who lack the spine to piss off some people to do the right thing.

The ACLU's actions aren't helping the situation, but to blame them is a gross misdirection of responsibility. Our elected officials are to blame.

[kevinsmith]

I think too many people in government are benefiting (yes, benefiting) from illegal immigration to do anything about it. Too many businesses thrive on illegal work, and those benefits are passed on to some crooks in Congress. Not only that, but we have politicians on both sides who lack the spine to piss off some people to do the right thing.

The ACLU's actions aren't helping the situation, but to blame them is a gross misdirection of responsibility. Our elected officials are to blame.

While I blame the politicians as well, I think "gross misdirection of blame" is a tad strong. Because, if the politicians DID grow the spine to change things, they would be ousted from office, where someone who may be more willing to serve as a puppet for the ACLU and others will reverse the decisions. Think about it. Senator Joe Blow from Arizona teams up with Senator Sally Suck from New Mexico to come up with new legislation against illegal immigration, despite threats from the ACLU. They, in turn, kick up a massive campaign to discredit the pair, calling them racist and what not. Once you are hit with the racist label, how do you shake it? How to you honestly prove you aren't racist? "I have black people working for me" That doesn't work, people still claim Bush is racist, yet there is a black woman in a higher position than ever before. Anyway, those two will face a candidate that will be backed by the ACLU, and will likely win if all the groups get together well enough.
Anyway, while the politicians are at fault, don't write off the ACLU and other groups as much as you are, a good chunk of blame lies with them as well. For if they didn't muck up the process, the politicians wouldn't have to grow a pair to do the right thing. Just a conscience....and some of them actually have one.

[TFS]

TFS- did you think I was ridiculing you and your post?

Yeah, I did, actually.

[Karly]

Yeah, I did, actually.

no- not at all- I was agreeing with you and how ur family did it right as did mine and our families are better for it. wow talk about tone not coming across on the internet. i wasnt ridiculing you at all.

[TFS]

no- not at all- I was agreeing with you and how ur family did it right as did mine and our families are better for it. wow talk about tone not coming across on the internet. i wasnt ridiculing you at all.

Ok, yeah, misunderstood then. Sorry 'bout that.

[bergshadow]

Think about it. Senator Joe Blow from Arizona teams up with Senator Sally Suck from New Mexico to come up with new legislation against illegal immigration, despite threats from the ACLU. They, in turn, kick up a massive campaign to discredit the pair, calling them racist and what not. Kinda reaching, there. There have to be a dozen political forces that outweigh whatever pull the ACLU has in this issue.

It isn't the ACLU preventing a crackdown on the businesses that hire illegals - even recruit them, in Mexico and CA. And these businesses have a lot more influence on a politician's election hopes than the ACLU does.

[Viet Era Marine]

OH MY GOD THEY GOT VEM!!!!

The worst part about this, is that (supposedly) it isn't going to take too long before the flood becomes irreversible. Before the country suffers from asphyxiation (right now America has mild asthma). 20 years. Those are the statistics I keep hearing. I don't know how reliable those stats are, but one thing I do know is that my family (from my dad's side; my mom's side was here before the west was won) came here through the proper channels...and it kind of upsets me that millions tip-toe across and get away with it. It's like the next door neighbor getting dish satellite for free. The only reason I'm not full-blown pissed is because I know not all of these illegal immigrants are sneaking over here simply to spite us. When a kid steals food, sometimes it really is because he's starving. But still...




Naw, they missed! :D

I'm hearing the same range of timeframes and tell the
truth, it scares the shit out of me. I also don't know
how acurate those are, but if they are even close, we
as a Nation, are up shit creek and about to lose our
paddle.

What bothers me more than the fact of 'It's Happening Now',
is the complicity of the Governments involved. Mexico dumps
their excess population up here and we do jack about it.

It would be interesting to find what % of Mexicos' GDP the
illegals fund back into the country. Of course you'll never hear
a peep from Western Union. Wonder why?

Think I'll check on that. BRB.

FOUND IT:

Washington Post Link (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/16/AR2006041600851.html)

Bottom of the first page is this paragraph;

"The money generated by Latinos working in the United States seals the bond: Remittances from legal and illegal Mexican immigrants in the United States top $20 billion a year, close to double the foreign business investment in Mexico", according to Rafael Fernandez de Castro, a Mexico City international relations specialist.

-Source, Washington Post Monday, April 17, 2006

I'll keep hunting for more, but $20Bill is a hell of a chunk.
Of course, that's Legal & illegal combined.

[kevinsmith]

Kinda reaching, there. There have to be a dozen political forces that outweigh whatever pull the ACLU has in this issue.

It isn't the ACLU preventing a crackdown on the businesses that hire illegals - even recruit them, in Mexico and CA. And these businesses have a lot more influence on a politician's election hopes than the ACLU does.

The ACLU was kinda serving as the united front of all the groups that would attack the hypothetical candidates and cause their likely loss of office. While the ACLU alone wouldn't be enough, the united front of groups chanting "racist" could be enough.


Naw, they missed! :D

I'm hearing the same range of timeframes and tell the
truth, it scares the shit out of me. I also don't know
how acurate those are, but if they are even close, we
as a Nation, are up shit creek and about to lose our
paddle.

What bothers me more than the fact of 'It's Happening Now',
is the complicity of the Governments involved. Mexico dumps
their excess population up here and we do jack about it.

It would be interesting to find what % of Mexicos' GDP the
illegals fund back into the country. Of course you'll never hear
a peep from Western Union. Wonder why?

Think I'll check on that. BRB.

From what I understand, that's actually the number one industry in Mexico, is money sent back there from the US.

[bergshadow]

The ACLU was kinda serving as the united front of all the groups that would attack the hypothetical candidates and cause their likely loss of office. The ACLU is an odd choice of symbolic front for a cabal of service corporations and agribusiness interests.

Speaking of groups whose disapproval would actually be a serious threat to said politician's hopes of re-election, in that their support was vital to the last one, and the politician owes them big time.

[Viet Era Marine]

From what I understand, that's actually the number one industry in Mexico, is money sent back there from the US.




Found another source:

Link Here (http://www.vdare.com/walker/mexico_the_rich.htm)

Now before folks start 'Poo-pooing' this, let's say this;
"Yes, I know it's an Opinion Site".
However, their stats seem on the level and if they are anywhere near realistic, HOLY SHIT! They estimate an anual "Remmitance" flow into Mexico as $11,000,000,000.00 USD and that data is from 2003!!

The one thing this site harps on (that I agree with) is that Prez. Fox needs to invest in his own Nation, not keep perpetuating the "Poor Mexico" sterotype.

EDIT:

Just found this at the bottom of this same page;
"She recently advanced the ingenious suggestion that remittances be taxed in order to pay for illegal immigrant healthcare costs borne by border hospitals".

Humm, now there's an idea.

[kevinsmith]

Interesting read.
link.http://www.azcentral.com/offbeat/articles/0323womanmauled23-ON.html
So the guy lived here how long, and needs an interpreter? Just curious, who still thinks you "need" to learn English to get buy in the US.


And I know this part is off topic, but if we followed that line of logic, could I get off on vehicular manslaughter charges if I never showed a history of driving recklessly?