Explore the Quran [Archive] - eBaum's World Forum

Spanish_Muslim

03-17-2007, 04:49 AM

Hello everyone,

It seems that a lot of people have misconceptions about Islam on this site.

I invite you all to take a look into a translation of the Quran in English (authentic translations by Muslims - not by random people) yourself.

www.quranexplorer.com/quran

I recommend reading "Dr. Mohsin" 's translation. It's easier to understand.

Also, check this out:
A Chapter From the Quran For All to See (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvh-5ou_8Z8)

To all the self-proclaimed experts on the Quran who are posting mistranslated quotes from God knows where, please compare your "quotes" from the Quran used by Muslims world-wide.

Thanks for your time.

SP.

Editted:

Here is a quote that site (prophetofdoom) claims is from the Quran.

Qur'an:9:112 - "The Believers fight in Allah's Cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed."

And here is the real quote from the Quran that Muslims read (use Quran Explorer to verfiy it):

Quran 9:112 - Those that turn (to Allah) in repentance: that serve Him and praise Him; that wander in devotion to the Cause of Allah;― that bow down and prostrate themselves in prayer; that enjoin good and forbid evil; and observe the limits set by Allah; (these do rejoice). So proclaim the glad tidings to the Believers.

Compare the two - can you see how distorted and BS the first one is? If you go ahead and check the rest of these quotes that are posted - you will find that every single one is a distorted. What Muslims read, and what some non-muslims CLAIM is in the Quran, are very different.

These are the differences between the Real Quran ... and random "translations" from God knows who. Obviously to create more hate against Islam amongst the ignorant. If there are any other verses you think are dodgy, use Quran Explorer to read the REAL quote, and in context (read it from the lines before also, so you may understand what it means).

StarmanFinal

03-17-2007, 05:05 AM

Nah, I don't think I will.

Kazimierz

03-17-2007, 05:12 AM

This thread is going to go nowhere, fast.

rand0m

03-17-2007, 06:49 AM

Which Quran are you reading?

These guys must have been reading something else right to lay down their own lives and countless others? (http://www.marvinmarshall.us/TowersB.jpg)

Oh but thats ok ... America is EVIL

What about these guys? Their not Amercian (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070314/wl_afp/thailandsouthunresttoll_070314104618;_ylt=AsUY8WU. 8me.h0zxvCnBBgPuNREB)

Oh right they're not Muslims so its ok ...

But wait? These are fellow Muslims? (http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/world/ny-woiraq085122090mar08,0,5451102.story?coll=ny-worldnews-print)

I thought it was tolerant? (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070220/wl_afp/pakistanattackswomen_070220103240;_ylt=Au6v0_rRFMT _DlGJ5bqWkPnzPukA)

I thought Islam wasn't compulsory?? (http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=38548&in_page_id=34)

I thought average Muslims we're against terrorism (http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/BKK25569.htm)

etc etc

Please link any Christian lead terrorist attacks, and I will give you 100 Islam terrorist attacks.

blabam

03-17-2007, 07:30 AM

mmmm a Christian lead terrorist organisation.. the U.S. !?

rand0m

03-17-2007, 07:55 AM

Funny you should say that, because the USA doesn't glorify mass murder, reward rapists, support the killing of civilians (no matter what u think) and it is probably one of the more multicultural societies on our planet.

Cousin Eddie

03-17-2007, 08:04 AM

What's the point? The bible or Quran can be"interpreted" any way anyone wants? :uhoh:

IrishNed

03-17-2007, 08:25 AM

... It seems that a lot of people have misconceptions about Islam on this site.

I invite you all to take a look into a translation of the Quran in English (authentic translations by Muslims - not by random people) yourself.

To all the self-proclaimed experts on the Quran who are posting mistranslated quotes from God knows where, please compare your "quotes" from the Quran used by Muslims world-wide..Isn't misinterpretation of Muhammad's teaching from the Quran (i.e., varying translations) the basis for Sunni vs. Shiite Islam??

Your complaint concerning misconceptions about Islam should be addressed to militant Islamic sects (Sunni & Shiite) rather than Judeo-Christians who comprise the majority of the members of these forums.

Mr. Heskey

03-17-2007, 09:40 AM

The Koran itself is a good thing- some of the jackasses who read it aren't.

American Infidel

03-17-2007, 09:53 AM

Isn't misinterpretation of Muhammad's teaching from the Quran (i.e., varying translations) the basis for Sunni vs. Shiite Islam??

Your complaint concerning misconceptions about Islam should be addressed to militant Islamic sects (Sunni & Shiite) rather than Judeo-Christians who comprise the majority of the members of these forums.

That's a good point. You should recognize the fact that Muslims, worldwide, have a difficult job in demonstrating to the "infidels" that your religion is truly the Religion of Peace™ (lose our heads, lest we disagree).

Mohammed (Pedophilia Be Upon Him) was documented in the Qu'ran as marrying a 6 year old girl and having sex with her when she was 9, as well as having a greater number of wives than Allah permitted. And these are just a sample of Mohammed's crimes against his own doctrine.

His made-up religion was a result of him being in a hub of a trading route, listening to a myriad of traveler's religious beliefs. Mythology and Christianity were both mated (with other religions) to create Islam, as he "emerged" from the desert after supposedly being visited by an angel.

I have just a few questions for you, of Islamic faith:

1: Muslims claim, that a proof that the Koran was from God, is that it contains scientifically accurate information about human reproduction. Yet in 86:6-7 the Qu'ran says, "man was created from ejected liquid, proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs". This echoes the scientific error of Hippocrates who believed semen originates from the brain down through the spinal chord, before passing through the kidneys and finally out of the body. My question is, do you reject modern science and believe the Qu'ran when, in fact, sperm originates from a man's testicles?

2: Muslims believe the word Allah was used by Jesus when he hung on the cross. The Bible records that Jesus said "Eli Eli lama sabachthani", but you say Jesus really cried out to Allah and said "Allah, Allah lama sabachthani" My question is, how can you even debate this argument when would you don't believe Jesus ever hung on the cross? And second, since Jesus was quoting Psalms 22:1 on the cross, isn't it rather impossible that both the Hebrew Old Testament and the Greek New Testament are wrong using Eli, a Hebrew word, rather than Allah, an Arab word?

3: Muslims argue that the Bible is inaccurate and corrupt, due to misinterpretation in translation. My question is, if you feel the Bible is so corrupted, than why do you directly quote Deuteronomy 18:18 and John 16:13 as uncorrupted prophecies of Allah's prophesy?

Just a few of many questions I've been dying to ask my Islamic brethren.

Islam is a cult religion, no different from David Koresh's or Jim Jones'...except the fact that they weren't prominent in the destruction of the civilized world.

slapnpopbass

03-17-2007, 10:38 AM

Look at both the Quran and the Bible and you'll find plenty of quotes to take out of context. [/thread]

Henkie

03-17-2007, 10:49 AM

Isn't misinterpretation of Muhammad's teaching from the Quran (i.e., varying translations) the basis for Sunni vs. Shiite Islam??

No. The mayor original difference of opinion was over who should replace Muhammed as leader of the Arabian empire.

Superior_to_you

03-17-2007, 11:01 AM

Actually the Qur'an is next on my list of religious texts to buy. I was planning on getting this one. (http://www.amazon.com/Quran-Translation-Sayed-Razwy/dp/1879402297/ref=pd_bbs_2/104-1143560-5800723?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1174140056&sr=8-2)

Nickster

03-17-2007, 12:08 PM

Scraaaahheeeewwwww YOUUUUUU!!!

I don't want to learn and/or "educate" myself on Muslim beliefs and practices, I just wan't you guys to leave me the hell alone.

JaneEyre

03-17-2007, 12:42 PM

I love when people pull lines of text from the Quran to try and trip people up. 10 years ago I was doing the same thing to radical Christian fundementalists.

My favorite is the one against masturbation:

Gen. 38:8 Then Judah said to Onan, 'Go in to your brother's wife and perform the duty of a brother-in-law to her; raise up offspring for your brother.' 9 But since Onan knew that the offspring would not be his, he spilled his semen on the ground whenever he went in to see his brother's wife, so that he would not give offspring to his brother. 10 What he did was displeasing in the sight of the Lord, and he put him to death also.

Awesome.

I fear people who take this stuff literally. We should build an island for all of them, and drop them off. Let them duke it out.

rand0m

03-17-2007, 12:54 PM

I'd like someone to find something Jesus himself actually said that promotes any sort of violence?

Ignore the rest of the bible thats all doesnt mean much, its mear speculation.

Jim Colyer

03-17-2007, 02:11 PM

Koran fails to acknowledge Jesus Christ as the only Son of God. Koran is the gateway to hell.

Poser Park

03-17-2007, 03:26 PM

Koran fails to acknowledge Jesus Christ as the only Son of God. Koran is the gateway to hell.

Says who? Your invisible sky-wizard? LMAO!

Join the club...there are a couple of thousand other religions out there that would claim that the Bible is the gateway to hell.

JaneEyre

03-17-2007, 03:40 PM

I think the gateway to hell is in my neighbors apartment, because there is a weird smell coming from there.

I should ask her if she's burning the bible or the Quran. That would answer this question for the time being.

UnLetale

03-17-2007, 05:31 PM

Y2K_MASTER

03-17-2007, 07:24 PM

Mohammed (Peace Be Upon Him) was documented in the Qu'ran as marrying a 6 year old girl and having sex with her when she was 9, as well as having a greater number of wives than Allah permitted. And these are just a sample of Mohammed's crimes against his own doctrine.

fixed again. And how can you even think of comparing present society with societies over 1400 years ago ? Or do you just like to spit out hateful stuff without backing it up? FYI, marrying girls that young was common practice back then for everyone. The Prophet Muhammed PBUH wasn't the first to do it and sure wasn't the last either. In our society this is completely insane to think of doing, but in theirs, it was the norm.

As for having 9(?) wives at a time, he was setting an example that you can marry anyone, and a few other examples. Back then, most people wouldn't think of marrying a widow or anything.

I'm saying this stuff on a vague memory, so i'd have to research it to be more accurate.

Devastation

03-17-2007, 07:30 PM

Personally I think you should all read both the Poetic Edda and the Prose Edda, and join the Odinic Rite (I get $50 for each convert; c'mon!).

whocares

03-17-2007, 07:36 PM

fixed again. And how can you even think of comparing present society with societies over 1400 years ago ? Or do you just like to spit out hateful stuff without backing it up? FYI, marrying girls that young was common practice back then for everyone. The Prophet Muhammed PBUH wasn't the first to do it and sure wasn't the last either. In our society this is completely insane to think of doing, but in theirs, it was the norm.

As for having 9(?) wives at a time, he was setting an example that you can marry anyone, and a few other examples. Back then, most people wouldn't think of marrying a widow or anything.

I'm saying this stuff on a vague memory, so i'd have to research it to be more accurate.
So, it was considered OK back then, therefore it isn't bad? :err:

G-manMET

03-17-2007, 07:47 PM

I'd like someone to find something Jesus himself actually said that promotes any sort of violence?

Ignore the rest of the bible thats all doesnt mean much, its mear speculation.

All of the Bible is speculation. Jesus didn't write it.

Danimal87

03-17-2007, 08:04 PM

chalupa

03-17-2007, 08:07 PM

Flying Spaghetti Monster FTW!

www.venganza.org/

Y2K_MASTER

03-17-2007, 08:47 PM

So, it was considered OK back then, therefore it isn't bad? :err:

no, therefore it wasn't bad in their time. It's bad in our time.

Quick_Draw21

03-17-2007, 08:56 PM

Islam is a cult religion, no different from David Koresh's or Jim Jones'...except the fact that they weren't prominent in the destruction of the civilized world.

Didn't Muslims accomplish a lot of work in math and science? Like for example creating algebra....

As for the Quaran being evil by taking quotes out of context, anyone can do that:

On you he will sacrifice the priests from the pagan shrines who come here to burn incense, and human bones will be burned on you." (1 Kings 13:1-2 NLT)

I will hand you over to ravaging men, artisans of destruction. You shall be fuel for the fire, your blood shall flow throughout the land. You shall not be remembered, for I, the LORD, have spoken. (Ezekiel 21:33-37 NAB)

Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her. (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT) :eek:

Thus says the Lord: 'I will bring evil upon you out of your own house. I will take your wives [plural] while you live to see it, and will give them to your neighbor. He shall lie with your wives in broad daylight. You have done this deed in secret, but I will bring it about in the presence of all Israel, and with the sun looking down.'

Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the Lord." Nathan answered David: "The Lord on his part has forgiven your sin: you shall not die. But since you have utterly spurned the Lord by this deed, the child born to you must surely die." [The child dies seven days later.] (2 Samuel 12:11-14 NAB)

They must be dividing the spoils they took: there must be a damsel or two for each man, Spoils of dyed cloth as Sisera's spoil, an ornate shawl or two for me in the spoil. (Judges 5:30 NAB)

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT) "New Testament" :rolleyes:

You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB) :uhoh:

"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Hell most of those Quaran quotes I see aren't even close to being as sick as these. The funny part is you never even post the complete verse...

So go ahead and claim your magical santa in the sky is better then theirs, cheers :wave:

Y2K_MASTER

03-17-2007, 09:09 PM

I see, then the crusades weren't bad at all :rolleyes:

There's a difference. That was a war. Now you want to compare wars for then and now, imagine me putting together an army and arming them all with swords. Then at night time we charge into a town and slaughter everyone in site. We'd be considered inhumane according to today's society, but back then, that was the europeans way of fighting.

Knoodle

03-17-2007, 09:28 PM

Spanish_Muslim: Explore the Quran

If you explore the Quran or the Bible or any other religious text you will find a lot of silly superstitions and dangerous dogma. Religions are the main reason people are killing each other today.

JaneEyre

03-17-2007, 09:49 PM

Those verses are talking about withdrawal, i.e. not cumming inside her but on the ground in this case.

Who knows what they meant...people have been killing each other over what those bible verses meant for years. I just wanted to show an example of what taking a verse out of context and twisting it for your own purpose does...you can make anything sound like anything you want.

The Quran, like the bible, is vauge enough.

eadgbe

03-17-2007, 11:04 PM

it's a sin to translate the koran. enjoy hell, idiot.

OPP

03-17-2007, 11:07 PM

it's a sin to translate the koran. enjoy hell, idiot.

No it's not. As long as it's done correctly.

whocares

03-17-2007, 11:54 PM

Actually, that's true. Islamic culture has made many contributions to science and modern world... however, nowadays it seems like doing that is now forgotten be them...

alex_de_large

03-18-2007, 01:03 AM

With all the fighting and wars that have occured becuase of simple conflict over how humans live their lives I'm glad I embraced Buddhism in my first year of university. I truly believe it is the only religion that has it right. The dalai lama himself says that all religions lead to the path of rigteousness. Find me another religious leader that will say that.

slapnpopbass

03-18-2007, 01:12 AM

All of the Bible is speculation. Jesus didn't write it.

NEVER has it been said that he wrote it. He never did.

cormega

03-18-2007, 01:14 AM

[QUOTE=Heather;3283135]That's a good point. You should recognize the fact that Muslims, worldwide, have a difficult job in demonstrating to the "infidels" that your religion is truly the Religion of Peace™ (lose our heads, lest we disagree).

If you compare the Quran and the Bible, the bible looks nothing more than a book with a few stories and some twisted ideas. I used to be a former jesus kid. You do know that the followers of the bible have taken more lives away than any other religon in the history of the world. Millions of peole have died cause they didnt want to convert.

His made-up religion was a result of him being in a hub of a trading route, listening to a myriad of traveler's religious beliefs. Mythology and Christianity were both mated (with other religions) to create Islam, as he "emerged" from the desert after supposedly being visited by an angel.

speaking of made up religons this is funny because did you know before Jesus their was dozens of other "prophets" that died on a cross and a few days later were seen floating up to heavens. cough mythology cough

Islam is a cult religion, no different from David Koresh's or Jim Jones'...except the fact that they weren't prominent in the destruction of the civilized world.[/QUOTE

Cult lol and to you the people that follow a book about talking bushes, a creppy dude with a fetish for animals that lived for hundreds of years with all the animals in world on the same street. Talking animals , a guy that could make the ocean split with a stick are normal? And if you ever read the quran you know theres no magical stories just a guideline to live your life.

Your lack of knowledge about relgion scares me . Dont be a bigot and why dont you read something and learn ann coulter.

enzo

03-18-2007, 01:42 AM

Sorry for the double post!

His made-up religion was a result of him being in a hub of a trading route, listening to a myriad of traveler's religious beliefs. Mythology and Christianity were both mated (with other religions) to create Islam, as he "emerged" from the desert after supposedly being visited by an angel.

Islam is a cult religion, no different from David Koresh's or Jim Jones'...except the fact that they weren't prominent in the destruction of the civilized world.

Are you serious? I don’t think you know anything of the Prophet (PBUH). I truly believe he is the most underrated man in the western world. Up to the age of 40, he was not known as a statesman, a preacher, or an orator. He was never seen discussing metaphysics, ethics, law, politics, economics or sociology. He was of excellent character and had charming manners, yet there was nothing about him that was deeply striking or radically extraordinary that would make men expect something great from him. But when he came out of the Cave of Hira, he was a transformed man with a message. “Is it possible for a person known to possess an upright and unblemished character, to suddenly turn ‘an imposter’ and claim to be the Prophet of God?” Let’s look at what happened.

One might ask: “for what reason did he suffer so many hardships?” He was beaten, tortured, insulted, and slandered by many of his enemies from the moment he started preaching. The Muslims he led were also tortured and beaten, from being stoned by the Arabs to thrown on the burning hot sand during midday with whips cracking down on them. Once Islam got even bigger, the people offered to accept him as their King, and offered him all the riches of the land at his feet only if he were to stop preaching. Let’s look at this; what benefit is it for Muhammad (PBUH) to continue preaching Islam if he can be a king? As a religious leader, he would only be respected by those who followed him. He would not gain any pleasures in life, he would suffer continually (from the oppressors), and he would have a long struggle in spreading his message. As a King, he would be a ruler, have ANYTHING he wants in this world, all the women, slaves, and gold he wants; he would be remembered like Pharoahs and would be the talk of stories and fairytales (like the Greek and Roman kings); yet he turned all this down. What would inspire him to do that? He died with nothing to his name, giving all his little possessions to charity; he lived of dates and water, and donated all food, clothing, and other items to charity; he dressed simply and lived a simple life, even though he was the leader of all the Muslims. Furthermore, had he come with a design to rival Christians and Jews, why should he have believed in Jesus Christ and Moses and other Prophets of God (peace be upon them), which is the basic requirement of faith without which no one could be a Muslim?

“It is well known that Muhammad (PBUH) was unlettered and had led a very uneventful life before he announced his mission to the world at the age of forty. Is it not an incontrovertible proof of his Prophethood, that despite being unlettered, all of Arabia stood in awe and wonder when he began preaching his message, and was bewitched by the wonderful eloquence of his message? The whole legion of Arab poets, preachers and orators of the highest caliber failed to bring forth the equivalent of the Quran, which remains inimitable to this day.”

enzo

03-18-2007, 01:45 AM

What other great people have said of Mohammad (PBUH):

MICHAEL H. HART in his recently published book on ratings of men who contributed towards the benefit and upliftment of mankind writes:

"My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of the world's most influential persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the religious and secular levels."
(M.H. Hart, THE 100: A RANKING OF THE MOST INFLUENTIAL PERSONS IN HISTORY, New York, 1978, p. 33)

MAHATMA GANDHI, speaking on the character of Muhammad, (pbuh) says in (YOUNG INDIA):

"I wanted to know the best of one who holds today's undisputed sway over the hearts of millions of mankind....I became more than convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for Islam in those days in the scheme of life. It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet, the scrupulous regard for his pledges, his intense devotion to this friends and followers, his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and in his own mission. These and not the sword carried everything before them and surmounted every obstacle. When I closed the 2nd volume (of the Prophet's biography), I was sorry there was not more for me to read of the great life."

GEORGE BERNARD SHAW said about him:

"He must be called the Saviour of Humanity. I believe that if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world, he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring it much needed peace and happiness."
(The Genuine Islam, Singapore, Vol. 1, No. 8, 1936)

ENCYCLOPEDIA BRITANNICA confirms:

"....a mass of detail in the early sources show that he was an honest and upright man who had gained the respect and loyalty of others who were like-wise honest and upright men."
(Vol. 12)

LAMARTINE, the renowned historian speaking on the essentials of human greatness wonders:

"If greatness of purpose, smallness of means and astounding results are the three criteria of human genius, who could dare to compare any great man in modern history with Muhammad? The most famous men created arms, laws and empires only. They founded, if anything at all, no more than material powers which often crumbled away before their eyes. This man moved not only armies, legislation, empires, peoples and dynasties, but millions of men in one-third of the then inhabited world; and more than that, he moved the altars, the gods, the religions, the ideas, the beliefs and souls....his forbearance in victory, his ambition, which was entirely devoted to one idea and in no manner striving for an empire; his endless prayers, his mystic conversations with God, his death and his triumph after death; all these attest not to an imposture but to a firm conviction which gave him the power to restore a dogma. This dogma was two-fold, the unity of God and the immateriality of God; the former telling what God is, the latter telling what God is not; the one overthrowing false gods with the sword, the other starting an idea with the words."
"Philosopher, orator, apostle, legislator, warrior, conqueror of ideas, restorer of rational dogmas, of a cult without images, the founder of twenty terrestrial empires and of one spiritual empire, that is Muhammad. As regards all the standards by which Human Greatness may be measured, we may well ask, Is there any man greater than he?"
(Lamartine, HISTOIRE DE LA TURQUIE, Paris, 1854, Vol. II, pp 276-277)

The world has had its share of great personalities. But these were one-sided figures who distinguished themselves in but one or two fields, such as religious thought or military leadership. The lives and teachings of these great personalities of the world are shrouded in the mist of time. There is so much speculation about the time and place of their birth, the mode and style of their life, the nature and detail of their teachings and the degree and measure of their success or failure that it is impossible for humanity to reconstruct accurately the lives and teachings of these men.

Not so this man. Muhammad (pbuh) accomplished so much in such diverse fields of human thought and behavior in the fullest blaze of human history. Every detail of his private life and public utterances has been accurately documented and faithfully preserved to our day. The authenticity of the record so preserved are vouched for not only by the faithful followers but even by his prejudiced critics.

Muhammad (pbuh) was a religious teacher, a social reformer, a moral guide, an administrative colossus, a faithful friend, a wonderful companion, a devoted husband, a loving father - all in one. No other man in history ever excelled or equaled him in any of these different aspects of life - but it was only for the selfless personality of Muhammad (pbuh) to achieve such incredible perfections.

K. S. RAMAKRISHNA RAO, an Indian Professor of Philosophy in his booklet, ("Muhammad, The Prophet of Islam,") calls him the

"Perfect model for human life."

Prof. Ramakrishna Rao explains his point by saying:

"The personality of Muhammad, it is most difficult to get into the whole truth of it. Only a glimpse of it I can catch. What a dramatic succession of picturesque scenes! There is Muhammad, the Prophet. There is Muhammad, the Warrior; Muhammad, the Businessman; Muhammad, the Statesman; Muhammad, the Orator; Muhammad, the Reformer; Muhammad, the Refuge of Orphans; Muhammad, the Protector of Slaves; Muhammad, the Emancipator of Women; Muhammad, the Judge; Muhammad, the Saint. All in all these magnificent roles, in all these departments of human activities, he is alike a hero."

Today after a lapse of fourteen centuries, the life and teachings of Muhammad (pbuh) have survived without the slightest loss, alteration or interpolation. They offer the same undying hope for treating mankind's many ills, which they did when he was alive. This is not a claim of Muhammad's (pbuh) followers but also the inescapable conclusion forced upon by a critical and unbiased history.
The least you could do as a thinking and concerned human being is to stop for a moment and ask yourself: Could these statements sounding so extraordinary and revolutionary be really true? And supposing they really are true and you did not know this man MUHAMMAD (pbuh) or hear about him, isn't it time you responded to this tremendous challenge and put in some effort to know him?

It will cost you nothing but it may prove to be the beginning of a completely new era in your life.

I hope you can change your baised views agains Mohammad (PBUH).

American Infidel

03-18-2007, 02:15 PM

Uh...That's a good point. You should recognize the fact that Muslims, worldwide, have a difficult job in demonstrating to the "infidels" that your religion is truly the Religion of Peace™ (lose our heads, lest we disagree).

If you compare the Quran and the Bible, the bible looks nothing more than a book with a few stories and some twisted ideas. I used to be a former jesus kid. You do know that the followers of the bible have taken more lives away than any other religon in the history of the world. Millions of peole have died cause they didnt want to convert.

His made-up religion was a result of him being in a hub of a trading route, listening to a myriad of traveler's religious beliefs. Mythology and Christianity were both mated (with other religions) to create Islam, as he "emerged" from the desert after supposedly being visited by an angel.

speaking of made up religons this is funny because did you know before Jesus their was dozens of other "prophets" that died on a cross and a few days later were seen floating up to heavens. cough mythology cough

Islam is a cult religion, no different from David Koresh's or Jim Jones'...except the fact that they weren't prominent in the destruction of the civilized world.[/QUOTE

Cult lol and to you the people that follow a book about talking bushes, a creppy dude with a fetish for animals that lived for hundreds of years with all the animals in world on the same street. Talking animals , a guy that could make the ocean split with a stick are normal? And if you ever read the quran you know theres no magical stories just a guideline to live your life.

Your lack of knowledge about relgion scares me . Dont be a bigot and why dont you read something and learn ann coulter.

Your post might be taken more seriously if you discovered the premium-only "PREVIEW POST" button before pouncing on that shiny "SUBMIT REPLY" button. You have attempted to fix your quotes by boldfacing your replies, though you failed to apply it to your last line, there.

Also, a better education in the English language and grammar will only help your feeble attempts to be taken seriously. For example, your post reads, "...why don't you read something and learn ann coulter." Without proper punctuation, one would assume you intend to say that I should learn from Ann Coulter. Furthermore, Ann Coulter is a person, whose proper name is to be capitalized.

I can see that you have become proficient in resizing text and changing fonts, as your signature demonstrates. It's ultimately disappointing that a semicolon (or similar form of punctuation) is not placed in a critical area, resulting in the more intelligent members having to mentally place it in there, themselves. It's a waste of time and destroys a truly humorous quote. Can you guess where it should be? :idea:

Are you serious? I don’t think you know anything of the Prophet (PBUH)...

One might ask: “for what reason did he suffer so many hardships?” He was beaten, tortured, insulted, and slandered by many of his enemies from the moment he started preaching....Blah, blah, blah.

As expected, I receive no real answers to the questions I asked.

Again, that sounds like the temptation of Christ. Mohammed (Parasites, Bloated, Upon Him) took his favorite stories from travelers and created his own religion from them.

I have researched the Qu'ran enough to know that there is no "New Testament", so to speak of. The Old Testament of the Bible shows God's hatred of man's sins and twisted laws.

The New Testament only demonstrates that Jesus sacrificed Himself for the rest of us, virtually protecting us from God's wrath until Judgment Day. Yet, you people continually use the Old Testament to damn Christianity, while praising the death cult of Islam.

Stanky105

03-18-2007, 05:46 PM

There's a difference. That was a war. Now you want to compare wars for then and now, imagine me putting together an army and arming them all with swords. Then at night time we charge into a town and slaughter everyone in site. We'd be considered inhumane according to today's society, but back then, that was the europeans way of fighting.

The reason this is looked down upon in today's western societies is BECAUSE we are secularized. The bible is piss full of genocide, the medieval knights were only following the good ol book. Too bad the middle east is still stuck in the medieval era, with 20th century weapons.

The bible and koran are full of stupid bullshit and should be irrelevant when contemplating the universe.

Viet Era Marine

03-18-2007, 06:28 PM

What other great people have said of Mohammad (PBUH):

[Insert Mohammad Plugs Here]

I hope you can change your baised views agains Mohammad (PBUH).

So, since you think that Islam is the best thing since
peanut butter, that must mean that you agree with
all of the Muslim practices?

You know, like Female Castration and Honor Killing.

Somehow, I don't see myself changing the way I feel
about those things real soon.

But, have a nice day anyhow, OK?

Regards,
VEM

enzo

03-18-2007, 06:50 PM

As expected, I receive no real answers to the questions I asked.

Again, that sounds like the temptation of Christ. Mohammed (Peace Be Upon Him) took his favorite stories from travelers and created his own religion from them.

I have researched the Qu'ran enough to know that there is no "New Testament", so to speak of. The Old Testament of the Bible shows God's hatred of man's sins and twisted laws.

The New Testament only demonstrates that Jesus sacrificed Himself for the rest of us, virtually protecting us from God's wrath until Judgment Day. Yet, you people continually use the Old Testament to damn Christianity, while praising the death cult of Islam.

It seems to me that despite the opinions and statements of great men over Muhammad (PBUH) (including Michael Hart's, who despite being a near white supremicist, name Muhammad (PBUH) as the most influential man in all of history), you believe yours to be the one holding the most water. And it's obvious from your attitude that you already hold a grudge against Islam, and are simply looking for ways to spread hate. As for all three questions you asked, here are the answers:

http://www.understanding-islam.com/related/text.asp?type=question&qid=100

http://www.jamaat.net/name/name4.html

http://www.islamicity.com/Mosque/Muhammad_Bible.HTM

Next time you google questions (since I found those exact questions on propaganda sites, meaning you yourself did not think of them), try to google some answers too. Plus, I have many questions over the validity of Christianity, but I don't go around asking questions in hopes of swaying peoples opinions toward a negative side. Now, go back and respond to Quick_draw21's or cormega's (without making fun of his writing and ignoring his questions) posts or come back with real questions of your own.

So, since you think that Islam is the best thing since
peanut butter, that must mean that you agree with
all of the Muslim practices?

You know, like Female Castration and Honor Killing.

Somehow, I don't see myself changing the way I feel
about those things real soon.

But, have a nice day anyhow, OK?

Regards,
VEM

Can you show me where you got that these acts are a MUSLIM practice, not a cultural, regional, or one done out of gains for power? From this, I mean the Quran or Hadith, not what the media shows on TV (though I do agree with you that some Muslims in this day are not representing Islam in a positive way).

Karly

03-18-2007, 07:06 PM

now i tell you what I told that Jehovahs witness bitch the other day- " I am a pagan and if I want to learn about your religion I know where to find your kind".

OPP

03-18-2007, 08:14 PM

Also, a better education in the English language and grammar will only help your feeble attempts to be taken seriously. For example, your post reads, "...why don't you read something and learn ann coulter." Without proper punctuation, one would assume you intend to say that I should learn from Ann Coulter. Furthermore, Ann Coulter is a person, whose proper name is to be capitalized.

Ah huh..... yet your only retort is criticizing his spelling and grammar. Excellent rebuttal.

eadgbe

03-18-2007, 11:22 PM

here's my rebuttal. *ahem*

MUHAMMED BONED A 9 YEAR OLD.
no offense meant, muslim amigos.

Y2K_MASTER

03-18-2007, 11:28 PM

... marrying girls that young was common practice back then for everyone.

here's my rebuttal. *ahem*

MUHAMMED BONED A 9 YEAR OLD.
no offense meant, muslim amigos.

And that was me already dealing with that rebuttal :P

eadgbe

03-18-2007, 11:31 PM

And that was me already dealing with that rebuttal :P

and that was me not reading the thread. :wave:

JaneEyre

03-18-2007, 11:34 PM

Can you show me where you got that these acts are a MUSLIM practice, not a cultural, regional, or one done out of gains for power? From this, I mean the Quran or Hadith, not what the media shows on TV (though I do agree with you that some Muslims in this day are not representing Islam in a positive way).

From a website on the Quran encouraging female circumcision for all muslin women:

Mohammed said: "Circumcision is a sunnah for the men and makrumah for the women". The term sunnah here means that it is conform to the tradition of Mohammed himself, or simply a custom at the time of Mohammed. The term makrumah is far from clear but we can translate it into a honorable deed.

- Speaking to the Ansars' wives, Mohammed said: "Cut slightly without exaggeration (ikhtafidna wa-la tanhikna), because it is more pleasant (ahza) for your husbands".

- Someone came to Mohammed and became a convert before him. Mohammed told him: "Shave off your unbeliever's hair and be circumcised".

Google is your friend.

cormega

03-18-2007, 11:48 PM

It's a waste of time and destroys a truly humorous quote. Can

Mohammed (Parasites, Bloated, Upon Him) took his favorite stories from travelers and created his own religion from them.

while praising the death cult of Islam.

Waste of time or is it you just dont want to go against facts and choose to cover your ears and go LA LA LA like that chick from the mad tv skit.

Created his own relgion with his own stories? What stories are you talking about? Unlike the bible the quran dosent have any magical stories its a guideline to live your life? You say youve read the Quran which i highly doubt post some stories ( jihadwatch and the prophet of doom dont count). Speaking of stories you do know that the bible was written hundreds of years after the " events" took place and its a book compiled of sixty stories that was written by fourty different authours. hipocritical ignorance at its finest.

And death cult of Islam this funny because millions and millions have died because of the "good book". I dont think it was Islam that went around saying convert to Jesus the son of god or were gonna behead the men and childern rape the women and then chop their heads off and then burn the village. And my mis-educated semi retarted friend the Quran says to respect all the relgions of people and treat everyone as one where the bible says kill all the none chirstans.

And i love how you ignored the quotes talking about Mohammed by people that were better educated than you, more important than you and understand Islam better than you.

Spanish_Muslim

03-19-2007, 12:06 AM

I've checked out the prophet of doom site, and everything is made-up and twisted!!!

Here is a quote that site (prophetofdoom) claims is from the Quran.

Qur'an:9:112 - "The Believers fight in Allah's Cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed."

And here is the real quote from the Quran that Muslims read (use Quran Explorer to verfiy it):

Quran 9:112 - Those that turn (to Allah) in repentance: that serve Him and praise Him; that wander in devotion to the Cause of Allah;― that bow down and prostrate themselves in prayer; that enjoin good and forbid evil; and observe the limits set by Allah; (these do rejoice). So proclaim the glad tidings to the Believers.

Compare the two - can you see how distorted and BS the first one is? If you go ahead and check the rest of these quotes that are posted - you will find that every single one is a distorted. What Muslims read, and what some non-muslims CLAIM is in the Quran, are very different.

Quick_Draw21

03-19-2007, 12:15 AM

Spanish_Muslim

03-19-2007, 12:15 AM

Prophet of Doom:
Qur'an 48:11 "The desert Arabs who lagged behind [in fighting] will say to you (Muhammad): ‘We were engaged in (looking after) our flocks and our families.' We have prepared for them a Blazing Fire!"

The Real Quran:
Quran 48:11 "Those of the wandering Arabs who were left behind will tell thee: Our possessions and our households occupied us, so ask forgiveness for us! They speak with their tongues that which is not in their hearts. Say: Who can avail you aught against Allah, if He intend you hurt or intend you profit? Nay, but Allah is ever Aware of what ye do.

Just another example again. The differences in the random and fake and distorted quotes are obvious.

Your wasting your time with people like Heather. They just pop in here every now and then to bad mouth Islam with unfounded "facts" and don't respond to any points directed at them.

Yeah, but atleast everyone else will know that the quotes he (and other self-proclaimed 'experts'on the Quran) post are DEFINITELY fake. And not only that, everyone else can check it for themselves from a Quran site made and used by Muslims!! The most popular English translation is by Yusuf Ali. Dr Mohsin's is easier to understand. And even these translations don't capture the entire meaning in Arabic.

Stanky105

03-19-2007, 12:36 AM

Created his own relgion with his own stories? What stories are you talking about? Unlike the bible the quran dosent have any magical stories its a guideline to live your life?

No magical stories? What the hell do you think "Allah" is, an apple tree?

Speaking of stories you do know that the bible was written hundreds of years after the " events" took place and its a book compiled of sixty stories that was written by fourty different authours. hipocritical ignorance at its finest.

The hypocrisy here is claiming the magical invisible being of the koran is any more relevant than the magical invisible being of the bible.

And death cult of Islam this funny because millions and millions have died because of the "good book". I dont think it was Islam that went around saying convert to Jesus the son of god or were gonna behead the men and childern rape the women and then chop their heads off and then burn the village.

Have you fucking even looked at the middle east recently?

And yes, the bible is full of shit so stop bringing it up.

And i love how you ignored the quotes talking about Mohammed by people that were better educated than you, more important than you and understand Islam better than you.

Perhaps we should start understanding Islam better when we try to understand unicorns and fairies better.

cormega

03-19-2007, 01:35 AM

No magical stories? What the hell do you think "Allah" is, an apple tree?

The hypocrisy here is claiming the magical invisible being of the koran is any more relevant than the magical invisible being of the bible.

Have you fucking even looked at the middle east recently?

And yes, the bible is full of shit so stop bringing it up.

Perhaps we should start understanding Islam better when we try to understand unicorns and fairies better.

That cracked me up apple tree :bigwink: . No i meant like stories like Noahs Arc, Talking Bushes, talking animals , people that lived for hundreds of years. Stories in that sence. I did not say that that their god is better I agree with you their cause thats where religon gets dangerous. And the middle east is well of except a few bad apples. Unlike fairies Islam actually is real the better we understand it the better off society is. And im agnostic the only reason i ripped on heather cause she was posting bullshit and i call bullshit when i see it.

Spanish_Muslim

03-19-2007, 02:49 AM

What the hell do you think "Allah" is, an apple tree?

2:255 Allah! there is no God but He―the living, the Self-subsisting, Eternal. Neither slumber, nor sleep overtake Him. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on earth. Who is he that can intercede with Him except with His Permission? He knows what happens to them (His creatures) in this world, and what will happen to them in the Hereafter . And they will never compass anything of His Knowledge except that which He wills. His Kursî[throne] extends over the heavens and the earth, and He feels no fatigue in guarding and preserving them. And He is the Most High, the Most Great(Quran 2:255 - Ayat ul Kursi)

2:256 Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth stands out clear from Error; whoever rejects Evil and believes in Allah, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allâh is All-Hearing, All-Knowing.

Allah is God. Muslims believe in One God. That's it; magic? That might be an athiest point of view I guess. I also bolded part of the verse after, that there is no compulsion in religion, as stated in the Quran. If you do not believe in God/Allah - then that's your choice. We, as Muslims, who follow the Quran, are asked to be patient and tell you to be patient till the Hour (Day of Judgement) comes, the Hour which is denied by non-believers. (Check out the short video on the OP - original post).

Just to reconfirm my point -

Surah 109
Say: O ye that reject Faith! (1) I worship not that which ye worship, (2) Nor will ye worship that which I worship. (3) And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, (4) Nor will ye worship that which I worship. (5) To you be your Way, and to me mine. (6)

alex_de_large

03-19-2007, 04:47 AM

Well I think it is great that Muslims, Christians, Sikhs and everyone else has their own religious views that help them get through day to day life. I deeply disagree with the few people on this board who propagate Christianity and denounce other religions, often in a hateful manner. I truly believe that if you spend your whole life trying to make others follow the same path as your own you will live an unhappy life indeed since religion is such a deep rooted issue. Does every religion have its own flaws? Of course it does. The Christian god, for an entity that is supposed to be perfect, condemns nonbelievers to a life of hell even if they have lived the most compassionate lifestyle they could have possibly lived. "Worship me or else" sure seems like pride, a quality that is not supposed to exist in a perfect being.

If there is a god (which I think no one can ever know until after death) then the only logical truth would be that all religions lead to heaven. I say this because, if you were born in any other country in the world you could quite possibly be a different religion through no fault of your own. Some people have never heard of the bible or koran and they can not be damned for eternity for this. It just doesn't make sense.

Stanky105

03-19-2007, 06:05 AM

That cracked me up apple tree :bigwink: . No i meant like stories like Noahs Arc, Talking Bushes, talking animals , people that lived for hundreds of years.

My original point still stands. Magical talking entities are on the same level of a boat magically fitting in all the species of the earth in my opinion.

On another note though, doesn't Mohammad supposedly talk to the angel gabriel and ascend into heaven?

And the middle east is well of except a few bad apples.

Yeah, lets hear it for dicatorships and medieval kingdoms style of government? :confused: :confused:

Unlike fairies Islam actually is real the better we understand it the better off society is.

The belief in fairies is just as real as the belief in Islam... its just that we lock the former up in insane asylums, I guess one magical invisible being isn't as special as the other.

And im agnostic the only reason i ripped on heather cause she was posting bullshit and i call bullshit when i see it.

Then why am I having to correct you so much? :p

Allah is God. Muslims believe in One God. That's it; magic?

Or a belief in magic, I would say.

We, as Muslims, who follow the Quran, are asked to be patient and tell you to be patient till the Hour (Day of Judgement) comes, the Hour which is denied by non-believers.

We, as Gabbabists, are waiting for the Hour which will be denied unto you, when cans of cheese wiz float down from the sky, delivered from the sacrafice of our lord Babaganoosh on the bloody spike of Nippleton. Us believers will get 42 pizzas, 80 virgins and a kleenex which we may use for eternity, while the non believers shall be sent to the pit of Cthulu where they shall explode and reform for the rest of eternity.

We, as Gabbabists, believe that red haired 6' tall heterosexual people are an abomination unto Babaganoosh, and that toenails are part of the human soul, and we are destroying what is beautiful unto God by clipping them. This is a good Gabbabist country, we need to keep our family values!

We have strong faith that the previous statements are all true based off of our bronze age holy book!

YAAAY RELIGION!!!

Karly

03-19-2007, 10:42 AM

Mythology and Christianity were both mated (with other religions) to create Islam, as he "emerged" from the desert after supposedly being visited by an angel.

are you meaning to say that christianity wasn't based upon mytholgy? I'm only asking because you seperatly stated "mythology and christianity" and they are in fact one in the same.

OPP

03-19-2007, 11:18 AM

are you meaning to say that christianity wasn't based upon mytholgy? I'm only asking because you seperatly stated "mythology and christianity" and they are in fact one in the same.

He himself doesn't even know what he means.

OMFG FORUM RAGE

03-20-2007, 09:01 PM

Excerpt K 2:178-179
Set 1, Count 1+2 [2.178]...retaliation is prescribed for you in the matter of the slain... [2.179] ...there is life for you in (the law of) retaliation, O men of understanding, that you may guard yourselves.
Excerpt K 2:190-191
Set 2, Count 3+4 [2.190] ...fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you...[2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.
Excerpt K 2:193-194
Set 3, Count 5+6 [193]...fight with them...[194]...whoever then acts aggressively against you, inflict injury on him according to the injury he has inflicted on you...
Excerpt K 2:216-218
Set 4, Count 7-9 [2.216] Fighting is enjoined on you...[2.217]... fighting in it. Say: Fighting in it is a grave matter...persecution is graver than slaughter... [2.218]...strove hard in the way of Allah...
Excerpt K 2:244
Set 5, Count 10 ...fight in the way of Allah
Excerpt K 3:121-126
Set 6, Count 11-16 [3.121]...to lodge the believers in encampments for war...[3.122] When two parties from among you had determined that they should show cowardice [about Jihad]...[3.123]...Allah did certainly assist you at [the Battle of] Badr...[3.124]...[3.125] Yea! if you remain patient and are on your guard, and they come upon you in a headlong manner, your Lord will assist you with five thousand of the havoc-making angels. [3.126] ...victory is only from Allah...
Excerpt K 3:140-143
Set 7, Count 17-20 [3.140] If a wound has afflicted you (at [the Battle of] Uhud), a wound like it has also afflicted the (unbelieving) people; and We bring these days to men by turns, and that Allah may know those who believe and take witnesses from among you...[3.141] ...that He [Allah] may purge those who believe and deprive the unbelievers of blessings. [3.142] Yusuf Ali: Did ye think that ye would enter Heaven without God testing those of you who fought hard (in His Cause) and remained steadfast? [3.143] Pickthall: And verily ye used to wish for death before ye met it (in the field). Now ye have seen it [death] with your eyes!
Excerpt K 3:146
Set 8, Count 21 Yusuf Ali: How many of the prophets fought (in Allah's way) [Jihad], and with them (fought) large bands of godly men? But they never lost heart if they met with disaster in Allah's way [lost a battle], nor did they weaken (in will) nor give in. And Allah loves those who are firm and steadfast [in Jihad].
Excerpt K 3:152-158
Set 9, Count 22-28 [3.152]...you slew them by His [Allah's] permission [during a Jihad battle]...[3.153] Pickthall: ...the messenger, in your rear, was calling you (to fight)...that which ye missed [war spoils]...[3.154]...They say: Had we any hand in the affair, we would not have been slain here [in a Jihad battle]. Say: Had you remained in your houses, those for whom slaughter was ordained [in a Jihad battle] would certainly have gone forth to the places where they would be slain...[3.155] (As for) those of you who turned back on the day when the two armies met...[3.156] O you who believe! be not like those who disbelieve and say of their brethren when they travel in the earth or engage in fighting: Had they been with us, they would not have died and they would not have been slain...[3.157]...if you are slain in the way of Allah...mercy is better than what they amass [what those who stay home from Jihad receive – no booty on earth and no perks in heaven]. [3.158] …if indeed you die or you are slain, certainly to Allah shall you be gathered together.
Excerpt K 3:165-167
Set 10, Count 29-31 [3.165]...you [Muslims] had certainly afflicted (the unbelievers) with twice as much [in a Jihad battle]...[3.166]...when the two armies met ([the Battle of] Uhud)...[3.167]...Come, fight in Allah's way, or defend yourselves...If we knew fighting, we would certainly have followed you...
Excerpt K 3:169
Set 11, Count 32 ...reckon not those who are killed in Allah's way as dead; nay, they are alive (and) are provided sustenance from their Lord [meaning they are enjoying their 72 virgins in heaven];
Excerpt K 3:172-173
Set 12, Count 33+34 [3.172] ...those who responded (at [the Battle of] Uhud) to the call of Allah and the Apostle after a wound had befallen them...shall have a great reward. [3.173] Those to whom the people said: Surely men have gathered against you [in battle], therefore fear them, but this increased their faith, and they said: Allah is sufficient for us and most excellent is the Protector.
Excerpt K 3:195
Set 13, Count 35 ...who fought and were slain...I will most certainly make them enter gardens beneath which rivers flow; a reward from Allah, and with Allah is yet better reward.
Excerpt K 4:071-072
Set 14, Count 36+37 [4.71] ...go forth in detachments or go forth in a body [to war]. [4.72] ...hang back [from Jihad] ...not present with them [in Jihad].
Excerpt K 4:074-077
Set 15, Count 38-41 [4.74] Therefore let those fight in the way of Allah, who sell this world's life for the hereafter; and whoever fights in the way of Allah, then be he slain or be he victorious, We shall grant him a mighty reward. [4.75] ...fight in the way of Allah... [4.76] Those who believe fight in the way of Allah, and those who disbelieve fight in the way of the Satan. Fight therefore against the friends of the Satan... [4.77] ...when fighting is prescribed for them...Our Lord! why hast Thou ordained fighting for us?...
Excerpt K 4:084
Set 16, Count 42 Fight then in Allah's way...rouse the believers to ardor maybe Allah will restrain the fighting of those who disbelieve...
Excerpt K 4:089-091
Set 17, Count 43-45 [4.89] ...take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah’s way; but if they turn back [to their homes], then seize them and kill them wherever you find them... [4.90] Allah has not given you a way against them [Allah supposedly does not allow Muslims to fight people friendly to Muslims]. [4.91]...seize them and kill them wherever you find them...
Excerpt K 4:094-095
Set 18, Count 46+47 [4.94]...when you go to war in Allah's way... [4.95] ...those who strive hard [Jihad] in Allah's way with their property and their persons are not equal...Allah shall grant to the strivers [i.e., Jihadist] above the holders back a mighty reward.
Excerpt K 4:100-104
Set 19, Count 48-52 ...whoever flies in Allah's way [forsakes his home to fight in Jihad], he will find in the earth many a place of refuge and abundant resources, and whoever goes forth from his house flying to Allah and His Apostle, and then death overtakes him [in Jihad], his reward is indeed with Allah...[4.101] Rodwell: And when ye go forth to war in the land, it shall be no crime in you to cut short your prayers, if ye fear lest the infidels come upon you; Verily, the infidels are your undoubted enemies! [4.102]...let them take their arms...let them take their precautions and their arms...there is no blame on you, if you are annoyed with rain or if you are sick, that you lay down your arms...[4.103] Khalifa: Once you complete your Contact Prayer (Salat), you shall remember GOD while standing, sitting, or lying down. Once the war is over, you shall observe the Contact Prayers (Salat); the Contact Prayers (Salat) are decreed for the believers at specific times.[4.104]...be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy...
Excerpt K 4:141
Set 20, Count 53 Sher Ali:...If you have a victory [in Jihad] from Allah...
Excerpt K 5:033
Set 21, Count 54 The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned [Pickthall and Yusuf Ali have "exiled" rather than "imprisoned"]
Excerpt K 5:035
Set 22, Count 55 ...strive hard [at Jihad] in His way that you may be successful.
Excerpt K 5:082
Set 23, Count 56 ...you will find the most violent of people in enmity for those who believe (to be) the Jews [compare with "whenever Jews kindle fire for war, Allah [Muslims] puts it out" (K 005:064)] and those who are polytheists [while they are converted to Islam on pain of death]...
Excerpt K 8:001
Set 24, Count 57 Pickthall: ...the spoils of war...The spoils of war belong to Allah and the messenger
Excerpt K 8:005
Set 25, Count 58 Even as your Lord caused you to go forth from your house with the truth, though a party of the believers were surely averse;
Excerpt K 8:007
Set 26, Count 59 ...Allah promised you one of the two (enemy) parties, that it should be yours: Ye wished that the one unarmed should be yours, but Allah willed to justify the Truth according to His words and to cut off the roots of the Unbelievers.
Excerpt K 8:009-010
Set 27, Count 60+61 [8.9]...I will assist you [in Jihad] with a thousand of the angels following one another [see K 008:012]. [8.10] ...Allah only gave it as a good news and that your hearts might be at ease thereby; and victory is only from Allah; surely Allah is Mighty, Wise.
Excerpt K 8:012
Set 28, Count 62 ...make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.
Excerpt K 8:015-017
Set 29, Count 63-65 [8.15] ...when you meet those who disbelieve marching for war, then turn not your backs to them. [8.16] ...for the sake of fighting... [8.17] So you did not slay them, but it was Allah Who slew them, and you did not smite when you smote (the enemy), but it was Allah Who smote [Allah gets the credit for Jihad]...
Excerpt K 8:039-048
Set 30, Count 66-75 [8.39] Shakir: ...fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah... [8.40] Yusuf Ali: If they [unbelievers] refuse [to stop fighting], be sure that God is your Protector...[8.41] Shakir: ...whatever thing [loot] you gain, a fifth of it is for Allah and for the Apostle...the day on which the two parties met [in a Jihad versus anti-Jihad battle]...[8.42]...Allah might bring about a matter which was to be done, that he who would perish might perish by clear proof [bring success to Muslims engaged in robbing a caravan near Badr against all the odds]...[8.43]...Allah showed them [the Mekkans] to you in your dream as few [fighters]; and if He had shown them [the Mekkans] to you as many [fighters] you would certainly have become weak-hearted [i.e., hearts. See the similar discussion in K 002:249 about how a smaller army can defeat a larger army]...[8.44]...when you met, as few [fighters] in your eyes and He made you to appear little [few fighters] in their eyes, in order that Allah might bring about a matter which was to be done [a Jihad versus anti-Jihad battle brought on by overconfidence in each side]...[8.45]...when you meet a party [in battle], then be firm...[8.46]...obey Allah and His Apostle and do not quarrel for then you will be weak in hearts [demoralized] and your power [to execute Jihad] will depart...[8.47]...be not like those [Mekkans] who came forth from their homes [in an anti-Jihad War on Islamic terrorism]...[8.48]...when the two parties [Muslims versus Mekkans] came in sight of each other he [Satan] turned upon his heels...
Excerpt K 8:057-060
Set 31, Count 76-79 Pickthall: [8.57] If thou come on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember. [8.57] Khalifa: When you are betrayed by a group of people, you shall mobilize against them in the same manner. GOD does not love the betrayers. [8.59] Shakir: ...let not those who disbelieve think that they shall come in first; surely they will not escape. [8.60] And prepare against them what force you can and horses tied at the frontier, to frighten thereby the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them, whom you do not know (but) Allah knows them; and whatever thing you will spend in Allah's way [for Jihad]...
Excerpt K 8:065-075
Set 32, Count 80-90 [8.65] O Prophet! urge the believers to war; if there are twenty patient ones of you they shall overcome two hundred, and if there are a hundred of you they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they are a people who do not understand [in other words, do not understand totalitarian ideologies like Islam]. [8.66] ...if there are a hundred patient ones of you they shall overcome two hundred, and if there are a thousand they shall overcome two thousand by Allah's permission... [8.67] It is not fit for a prophet that he should take captives unless he has fought and triumphed in the land; you desire the frail goods [i.e., ransom money] of this world... [8.68] ...ransom... [8.69] Eat then of the lawful and good (things) which you have acquired in war [war spoils]...[8.70] O Prophet! say to those of the captives [non-Muslims] who are in your hands: If Allah knows anything good in your hearts, He will give to you better than that which has been taken away from you [in Jihad]...[8.71] Yusuf Ali: But if they have treacherous designs against thee, (O Apostle!)...He [Allah] given (thee) power over them...[8.72] Yusuf Ali: Those who ...fought for the Faith, with their property and their persons, in the cause of God...[8.73] Yusuf Ali: The Unbelievers are protectors, one of another: Unless ye do this, (protect each other), there would be tumult and oppression on earth, and great mischief. [8.74] Yusuf Ali:...fight for the Faith...[8.75] Yusuf Ali: ...fight for the Faith...
Excerpt K 9:005
Set 33, Count 91 ...slay the idolaters wherever you find them...take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush...
Excerpt K 9:012-014
Set 34, Count 92-94 [9.12] ...fight the leaders of unbelief...[9.13] What! will you not fight a people...[9.14] Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace, and assist you against them and heal the hearts of a believing people.
Excerpt K 9:016
Set 35, Count 95 ...those of you who have struggled hard [in Jihad]
Excerpt K 9:019-020
Set 36, Count 96+97 [9.19] ...strives hard in Allah's way?... [9.20]...strove hard [Jihad] in Allah's way with their property and their souls...
Excerpt K 9:024-026
Set 37, Count 98-100 [9.24] ...striving in His way [Jihad]:, then wait till Allah brings about His command [to go on Jihad]: ... [9.25] Certainly Allah helped you in many battlefields and on the day of [the Battle of] Hunain, when your great numbers made you vain, ... [9.26] ...chastised those who disbelieved [Muhammad gives credit to angels and Allah for the actions of Jihadists]...
Excerpt K 9:029
Set 38, Count 101 Fight those who do not believe in Allah...nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.
Excerpt K 9:036
Set 39, Count 102 ...fight the polytheists all together as they fight you all together...
Excerpt K 9:038-039
Set 40, Count 103+104 [9.38] ...Go forth in Allah's way [to Jihad]... [9.39] If you do not go forth [to go on Jihad], He will chastise you with a painful chastisement and bring in your place a people other than you [to go on Jihad]...
Excerpt K 9:041
Set 41, Count 105 Go forth light [lightly armed] and heavy [heavily armed], and strive hard in Allah's way [Jihad] with your property and your persons...
Excerpt K 9:044
Set 42, Count 106 ...striving hard with their property and their persons [Jihad] ...
Excerpt K 9:052
Set 43, Count 107 ...Allah will afflict you with punishment from Himself or by our hands...
Excerpt K 9:073
Set 44, Count 108 ...strive hard [Jihad] against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them...
Excerpt K 9:081
Set 45, Count 109 ...they were averse from striving in Allah's way [Jihad] with their property and their persons, and said: Do not go forth [to Jihad] in the heat...
Excerpt K 9:083
Set 46, Count 110 ... shall you fight an enemy with me [in Jihad]...
Excerpt K 9:086
Set 47, Count 111 ...strive hard [in Jihad] along with His Apostle
Excerpt K 9:088
Set 48, Count 112 ...strive hard [in Jihad] with their property and their persons...
Excerpt K 9:092
Set 49, Count 113 Yusuf Ali: Nor (is there blame) on those who came to thee to be provided with mounts [saddles on which to go to war], and when thou said, "I can find no mounts for you," they turned back, their eyes streaming with tears of grief that they had no resources wherewith to provide the expenses [to go on Jihad].
Excerpt K 9:111
Set 50, Count 114 ...they fight in Allah's way, so they slay and are slain...
Excerpt K 9:120
Set 51, Count 115 Yusuf Ali:...whether they suffered thirst, or fatigue, or hunger, in the cause of Allah [while on a march to Jihad], or trod paths to raise the ire of the Unbelievers [invade their territory], or received any injury whatever from an enemy [during a Jihad battle]...
Excerpt K 9:122-123
Set 52, Count 116+117 [9.122] Pickthall:...the believers should not all go out to fight. Of every troop of them, a party only should go forth... [9.123] ...fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness...
Excerpt K 16:110
Set 53, Count 118 Yusuf Ali:...who thereafter strive and fight for the faith and patiently persevere...
Excerpt K 22:039
Set 54, Count 119 Permission (to fight) is given to those upon whom war is made...
Excerpt K 22:058
Set 55, Count 120 Sher Ali: ...those who leave their homes for the cause of Allah, and are then slain or die, Allah will, surely, provide for them a goodly provision...
Excerpt K 22:078
Set 56, Count 121 ...strive hard [in Jihad] in (the way of) Allah, (such) a striving a is due to Him...
Excerpt K 24:053
Set 57, Count 122 ...they would certainly go forth [to Jihad (see K 024:055)]...
Excerpt K 24:055
Set 58, Count 123 Allah has promised to those of you who believe and do good that He will most certainly make them rulers in the earth [as a reward for going on Jihad (see K 024:053)]...
Excerpt K 25:052
Set 59, Count 124 Palmer: ...fight strenuously with them in many a strenuous fight.
Excerpt K 29:006
Set 60, Count 125 ...whoever strives hard [in Jihad], he strives only for his own soul...
Excerpt K 29:069
Set 61, Count 126 ...(as for) those who strive hard [in Jihad] for Us [Allah]...
Excerpt K 33:015
Set 62, Count 127 Pickthall: ...they had already sworn unto Allah that they would not turn their backs (to the foe) [in Jihad battle]...
Excerpt K 33:018
Set 63, Count 128 ...they come not to the fight [Jihad] but a little...
Excerpt K 33:020
Set 64, Count 129 ...they would not fight save a little [in Jihad].
Excerpt K 33:023
Set 65, Count 130 Pickthall: ...Some of them [Jihadists] have paid their vow by death (in battle), and some of them still are waiting...
Excerpt K 33:25-27
Set 66, Count 131-133 [33.25]...Allah sufficed the believers in fighting... [33.26]...some [Jews] you killed and you took captive another part. [33.27]...He made you heirs to their [Jewish] land and their dwellings and their property, and (to) a land which you have not yet trodden...
Excerpt K 33:050
Set 67, Count 134 ...those [captive women] whom your right hand possesses [i.e., by virtue of the sword used in Jihad] out of those whom Allah has given to you as prisoners of war...
Excerpt K 42:039
Set 68, Count 135 Sale:...and who, when an injury is done them, avenge themselves...
Excerpt K 47:004
Set 69, Count 136 ...when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates...(as for) those who are slain in the way of Allah...
Excerpt K 47:020
Set 70, Count 137 ...fighting [allusion to Jihad] is mentioned therein ...
Excerpt K 47:035
Set 71, Count 138 Rodwell: Be not fainthearted then; and invite not the infidels to peace when ye have the upper hand: for God is with you, and will not defraud you of the recompense of your works...
Excerpt K 48:15-24
Set 72, Count 139-148 [48.15] Pickthall: ...when you set forth to capture booty...[48.16]...You shall soon be invited (to fight) against a people possessing mighty prowess; you will fight against them until they submit...[48.17] Pickthall: There is no blame...for the sick (that they go not forth to war). And whoso obeys Allah and His messenger [by going on Jihad], He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow; and whoso turns back [from Jihad], him will He punish with a painful doom. [48.18] Certainly Allah was well pleased with the believers when they swore allegiance to you under the tree, and He knew what was in their hearts, so He sent down tranquility on them and rewarded them with a near victory, [48.19] And much booty that they will capture. Allah is ever Mighty, Wise. [48.20] Allah promised you many acquisitions which you will take, then He hastened on this one for you and held back the hands of men from you, and that it may be a sign for the believers and that He may guide you on a right path. [48.21] Sale: And [he also promiseth you] other [spoils], which ye have not [yet] been able [to take]: But now hath God encompassed them [for you]; and God is almighty. [48.22] And if those who disbelieve fight with you, they would certainly turn (their) backs, then they would not find any protector or a helper. [48.23] Such [i.e., the Jihad mentioned the previous verse] has been the course [practice] of Allah that has indeed run before, and you shall not find a change in Allah’s course. [48.24] And He [Allah] it is Who held back...your hands from them [in Jihad] in the valley of Mecca...
Excerpt K 49:015
Set 73, Count 149 Sale: ...true believers ...employ their substance and their persons in the defense of God's true religion...
Excerpt K 59:002
Set 74, Count 150 ...the hands of the believers [i.e. Muslims demolished Jewish homes] ...
Excerpt K 59:5-8
Set 75, Count 151-154 Pickthall:[59.5] Whatsoever palm-trees you cut down or left standing on their roots [during a Jihad siege of the Jews at Madina], it was by Allah's leave, in order that He might confound the evil-livers [Jews]. [59.6] ...that which Allah gave as spoil unto His messenger from them, you urged not any horse or riding-camel for the sake thereof, but Allah gives His messenger lordship over whom He will... [59.7] That which Allah gives as [war] spoil unto His messenger from the people of the townships [Jews], it is for Allah and His messenger...whatsoever [spoils] the messenger gives you, take it...[59.8] ...who seek bounty [war spoils] from Allah...
Excerpt K 59:014
Set 76, Count 155 They will not fight against you in a body save in fortified towns or from behind walls...
Excerpt K 60:009
Set 77, Count 156 Allah only forbids you respecting those who made war upon you on account of (your) religion [no fraternizing with the enemy]...
Excerpt K 61:004
Set 78, Count 157 ...Allah loves those who fight in His way in ranks as if they were a firm and compact wall.
Excerpt K 61:011
Set 79, Count 158 ...struggle hard in Allah's way [Jihad] with your property and your lives...
Excerpt K 61:013
Set 80, Count 159 ...victory [in Jihad] near at hand...
Excerpt K 63:004
Set 81, Count 160 ...they think every cry to be against them. They are the enemy, therefore beware of them; may Allah destroy them, whence are they turned back? [This verse speaks of internecine Jihad against Muslims deemed infidels or "hypocrites."]
Excerpt K 64:014
Set 82, Count 161 ...surely from among your wives and your children there is an enemy to you; therefore beware of them [collaborators with the enemy, especially if the women were once war spoils]...
Excerpt K 66:009
Set 83, Count 162 O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and be hard against them...
Excerpt K 73:020
Set 84, Count 163 ...others who fight in Allah's way...
Excerpt K 76:008
Set 85, Count 164 And they [Muslims] give food out of love for Him [Allah] to...the captive [of Jihad] ...

MUSLIMS= GLOBAL THREAT

with response I say we should Bomb MECCA and every thing will go away.

Spanish_Muslim

03-20-2007, 09:49 PM

To the poster above; when posting a verse, you could post it in its entirety..because that is what Muslims learn from the Quran. I'll use the first few as an example. And I advise anyone else who is wondering about the rest of these quotes to go and read it themselves from quranexplorer.com/quran themselves, so you may understand the message Muslims take home from the Quran. Maybe read all 3 different, but authenticated English translations so nothing is missed out from the Arabic.

Excerpt K 2:178-179
Set 1, Count 1+2 [2.178]...retaliation is prescribed for you in the matter of the slain...

2:178 O ye who believe! The law of equality is prescribed to you in cases of murder; the free for the free the slave for the slave the woman for the woman. But if any remission is made by the brother of the slain then grant any reasonable demand, and compensate him with handsome gratitude, This is a concession and a Mercy from your Lord. After this whoever exceeds the limits shall be in grave penalty.
2:179 In the law of Equality there is (saving of) life to you O ye men of understanding! that ye may restrain yourselves.

I plan to memorise the entire Quran someday (in Arabic of course - only one version), like a few of my mates already have. Even then, I need to ask the religious scholars (eg. Sheikhs etc) about the meanings of certain verses. And read into the background of the verse, when it was revealed by God to our prophet, and when it is applicable.

You present the quotes in a way that suggests a Muslim will read it and become a blood thirsty-killer straight away. When I read it, I feel humbled by God's words. And His limits.

Excerpt K 2:190-191
Set 2, Count 3+4 [2.190] ...fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you...[2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

Surah 2: Verses 190 - 192: Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors. (190) And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; But if they attack you, then slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith. (191) But if they cease, Allah is Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful. (192)

From these verses I, as a Muslim, have learnt that I am entitled to self-defence. If you attack me first, then I have the God-given right to fight back. And if the attacker ceases in his attack, then I must not fight back, as I will have overstepped Allah's limits. What's wrong with self-defence? These verses set the guidline for mankind by God (Allah).

MUSLIMS= GLOBAL THREAT

with response I say we should Bomb MECCA and every thing will go away.

Global threat eh? Yeah, you sure proved that :uhoh:

I've never been to Mecca. I'm not Arab either. Bombing Mecca will not make me forget the verses of the Quran I know, nor will it make me forget about the Day of Judgement or our purpose in life, and I won't forget that God exists. The only thing you will achieve by bombing Mecca is making everyone upset and angry, and entitle all Muslims their right to justice and self-defence.

bergshadow

03-20-2007, 10:00 PM

Why would it matter to a non-Muslim what the Quran says?

Religious people have never had any trouble justifying whatever they do on the basis of whatever texts they find important, so from the non-Muslim point of view we can just assume that whatever Muslims are up to they can justify by the Quran, and get back to basics: what are they up to?

Quick_Draw21

03-20-2007, 10:31 PM

Bunch of random highly edited quotes with no basis from whence they emerged

I read the first three quotes and they all said the same fucking thing. An eye for an eye... Oh my God, how horrible!!!1!1!111 :eek: You should really read things before you copy/paste from some bullshit website

Besides I posted a bunch of bible quotes earlier which were pretty sick if you ask me so I don't see your point.

But just for the hell of it here are the FULL quote instead of a snippet. Ill bold the main parts as you seem to be to lazy to even read what you posted yourself.

002.190 Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors. 002.191 And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. 002.192 But if they desist, then lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. 002.193 And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers. 002.194 The forbidden month for the forbidden month, and forbidden things in retaliation. And one who attacketh you, attack him in like manner as he attacked you. Observe your duty to Allah, and know that Allah is with those who ward off (evil).

Clearly it says to defend yourself if someone transgresses against you, which any logical person agrees with...

So next time actually READ what you are posting so you don't look like such a tool.

OMFG FORUM RAGE

03-20-2007, 10:42 PM

I read the first three quotes and they all said the same fucking thing. An eye for an eye... Oh my God, how horrible!!!1!1!111 :eek: You should really read things before you copy/paste from some bullshit website

Besides I posted a bunch of bible quotes earlier which were pretty sick if you ask me so I don't see your point.

But just for the hell of it here are the FULL quote instead of a snippet. Ill bold the main parts as you seem to be to lazy to even read what you posted yourself.

Clearly it says to defend yourself if someone transgresses against you, which any logical person agrees with...

So next time actually READ what you are posting so you don't look like such a tool.

who the fuck cares muslims arent people

Y2K_MASTER

03-20-2007, 10:46 PM

who the fuck cares muslims arent people

said the noun. :uhoh:

Spanish_Muslim

03-23-2007, 03:46 AM

Why would it matter to a non-Muslim what the Quran says?

It wouldn't matter, as non-Muslims, obviously, don't believe it is the word of God. It's an interesting read though. And some non-Muslims obviously have some interest in it - OMFG FORUM RAGE for example from above.

evilmittens

03-23-2007, 11:27 AM

OMFG FORUM RAGE

03-23-2007, 02:34 PM

evilmittens

03-23-2007, 02:51 PM

haha then why does one side blow themselves up to kill innocent civillians to get 72 virgins?

Yeah, ALL muslims do that.:uhoh:
Way to stereotype.

OMFG FORUM RAGE

03-23-2007, 03:47 PM

Yeah, ALL muslims do that.:uhoh:
Way to stereotype.

riiiggghht.

rand0m

03-23-2007, 03:57 PM

Why do Muslims keep killing then?

Nickster

03-23-2007, 04:16 PM

Why do Muslims keep killing then?

Liiieeess! ALL LIES! All propaganda doled out by the Evil Jewish Zionist Wal-Mart Illuminati Decepticon Overlords. No Muslim has ever killed anyone in all history and Al Qaeda is a peaceful human rights group dedicated to puppies and sunflowers. The dark smog of American Jewy Jewishness has clouded you vision, STEP INTO THE LIGHT! You are being liiieeeeddd to. Dont you see? DONT YOU SEE!? DONT YOU SEEEEE!?!?!

whocares

03-23-2007, 04:18 PM

Liiieeess! ALL LIES! All propaganda doled out by the Evil Jewish Zionist Wal-Mart Illuminati Decepticon Overlords. No Muslim has ever killed anyone in all history and Al Qaeda is a peaceful human rights group dedicated to puppies and sunflowers. The dark smog of American Jewy Jewishness has clouded you vision, STEP INTO THE LIGHT! You are being liiieeeeddd to. Dont you see? DONT YOU SEE!? DONT YOU SEEEEE!?!?!

Is that you csite?

Wait... no... I know, you're skymater.

Well, either way that's a post that totally explains their beliefs and theories.

OPP

03-23-2007, 04:27 PM

Yeah, ALL muslims do that.:uhoh:
Way to stereotype.

EM, it's sad to believe people are like this.

GlutSow

03-23-2007, 06:41 PM

Faith is an ok idea I guess, but organized religion is what really just brings everyone down. You pray to god and thats it. As long as you are good peoples for your whole life, I don't see a problem with anyone getting into heaven.

OMFG FORUM RAGE

03-23-2007, 08:31 PM

there all the same no matter how much you say they are different.

Quick_Draw21

03-24-2007, 12:31 AM

there all the same no matter how much you say they are different.

yes 1.2 billion people are all exactly the same....welcome to my ignore list

Unknown24

03-24-2007, 02:22 AM

Faith is an ok idea I guess, but organized religion is what really just brings everyone down. What's so special about faith? Faith doesn't apply to today's society... This is the age of reason... not ignorance. "Believing without Seeing" isn't a good way to go about the world......

I don't see a problem with anyone getting into heaven.What makes you think Heaven exists?

I must say though, Heaven does sound like a wonderful place but it would just be wishful thinking to assume its a real place.

American Infidel

03-24-2007, 08:30 AM

OMFG FORUM RAGE

03-24-2007, 02:57 PM

yes 1.2 billion people are all exactly the same....welcome to my ignore list

oh god im gonna kill myself.

Chewy

03-24-2007, 03:33 PM

I continually asked the question, "Why do no peaceful Muslims condemn extreme Islam?".

As a matter of fact, I found a good reason why, and made a thread about it. (http://www.forum.ebaumsworld.com/showthread.php?t=189738)

Unfortunately, Kazimeirz decided to interject his thoughts, without even viewing the media, and everyone chased his delusional rabbit.

Don't bitch about me not responding to redundant lockstep traps. I prioritize my time and effort.

They have been speaking out (http://www.freemuslims.org/high-rez-ad.mov)... some people are just not listening..

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/12/AR2005051201788.html
http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/27/AR2005072702082.html
"We condemn the principle of accusations of apostasy and the legalization of the assassination of Muslims for religious reasons," the 180 scholars said Wednesday at the end of the first International Islamic Conference in Jordan.
http://www.aljazeera.com/me.asp?service_ID=8831
http://www.islamonline.net/English/News/2001-09/13/article1.shtml
"There is no justification in Islam for extremism or terrorism," the scholars wrote. "Targeting civilians' life and property through suicide bombings or any other method of attack is haram — or forbidden."
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-07-28-us-muslim-terror_x.htm

there is a shit load more I have posted that in the past yet you sill make this claim...

either Google doesn't work on your computer or your choosing to ignore reality..

bergshadow

03-24-2007, 08:25 PM

I continually asked the question, "Why do no peaceful Muslims condemn extreme Islam?". And you continue to get patient, repetitious, explanatory responses which you continue to ignore.

Apparently, your priorities don't include reading your own threads, which last mentioned contained several debunking responses to your assertion and its evidence, such as this:

Originally Posted by heather
Has anyone even bothered watching the 20 minute video?
Yep.

Interestingly, it doesn't explain why we never hear from moderate Muslims. There are apparently quite a few of them around, and they can be found for interviews on attempts by the non-moderate to intimidate them. So why they are not interviewed, etc, on other matters remains a mystery.

Y2K_MASTER

03-24-2007, 08:26 PM

They have been speaking out (http://www.freemuslims.org/high-rez-ad.mov)... some people are just not listening..

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/12/AR2005051201788.html
http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/27/AR2005072702082.html

http://www.aljazeera.com/me.asp?service_ID=8831
http://www.islamonline.net/English/News/2001-09/13/article1.shtml

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-07-28-us-muslim-terror_x.htm

there is a shit load more I have posted that in the past yet you sill make this claim...

either Google doesn't work on your computer or your choosing to ignore reality..

I'd go with the ignoring reality one seeing as Heather likes to chase people down on their grammer instead of trying to answer a question they directed at him..

Spanish_Muslim

03-24-2007, 09:28 PM

I have never been more ashamed of this forum until this thread. I obviously do not give any credit to the extreme actions of radicals on EITHER SIDE OF ANY DEBATE. From what I saw, the OP was trying to show that many Muslims are no evil creatures. What harm can come from educating yourself?

I appreciate your posts. Just to clear up something though - the main purpose of the original post was to clarify the accidental (and deliberate) mistakes and ideas some people have about the Quran. Islam is perfect. God is perfect. But not all Muslims are perfect.

haha then why does one side blow themselves up to kill innocent civillians to get 72 virgins?

You know, the only time I've ever heard about 72 virgins is from the media claiming that a Muslim has said it. And from people like you.. I've never heard anything like that at the mosque in my entire life.

Devastation

03-24-2007, 09:30 PM

not all Muslims are perfect.

That is the basis of this thread. If more people would realize this, they would stop laying their blanket statements on everything.

However, all Odinists are perfect.

Spanish_Muslim

03-24-2007, 09:39 PM

What's so special about faith? Faith doesn't apply to today's society... This is the age of reason... not ignorance. "Believing without Seeing" isn't a good way to go about the world......

Science in the Quran (http://www.quranmiracles.com/?gclid=COWf46HWjosCFQlMYAodXVaMSg)

Or if you'd like a video; and there are other links on the right hand side of the youtube website.
Blood Circulation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kh_vJ9b1B90)

OMFG FORUM RAGE

03-24-2007, 09:58 PM

72 virgins in heaven.

OPP

03-24-2007, 10:00 PM

72 virgins in heaven.

Stop trying to stir things up. Your attempts are quite pathetic.

Spanish_Muslim

03-24-2007, 10:26 PM

What's the point? The bible or Quran can be"interpreted" any way anyone wants? :uhoh:

I was talking about the deliberate mistranslations. Like prophetofdoom sites, that often, do not even come close to quoting what the Quran says.

Isn't misinterpretation of Muhammad's teaching from the Quran (i.e., varying translations) the basis for Sunni vs. Shiite Islam??

No its not. The Quran has remained the same always. Word for word since it has been revealed.

Your complaint concerning misconceptions about Islam should be addressed to militant Islamic sects (Sunni & Shiite) rather than Judeo-Christians who comprise the majority of the members of these forums.

I think its appropriate for me to express my concerns here about the deliberately distorted verses that people post on these forums.

The Koran itself is a good thing- some of the jackasses who read it aren't.

I agree. If you read the Quran yourselve, the whole thing, and you can do so now from http://www.quranexplorer.com/quran/, then you'll see that it is a book of mercy. There is a video on youtube, of this atheist guy who constantly made videos against Islam, and while searching for things in it to make fun of in his next video, and while doing so, became convinced that its the word of God - he became a Muslim.

Actually the Qur'an is next on my list of religious texts to buy. I was planning on getting this one. (http://www.amazon.com/Quran-Translation-Sayed-Razwy/dp/1879402297/ref=pd_bbs_2/104-1143560-5800723?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1174140056&sr=8-2)

Yeah, that looks pretty authentic. The entire translation in the book is by Yusuf Ali, his version is also on the net too in the QE site. Make sure any english translation you have has the Arabic along with it.

Spanish_Muslim

03-24-2007, 11:01 PM

1: Muslims claim, that a proof that the Koran was from God, is that it contains scientifically accurate information about human reproduction. Yet in 86:6-7 the Qu'ran says, "man was created from ejected liquid, proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs". This echoes the scientific error of Hippocrates who believed semen originates from the brain down through the spinal chord, before passing through the kidneys and finally out of the body. My question is, do you reject modern science and believe the Qu'ran when, in fact, sperm originates from a man's testicles?

EMBRYOLOGY

MAN IS CREATED FROM ALAQ---A LEECH-LIKE SUBSTANCE

A few years ago a group of Arabs collected all information concerning embryology from the QUR'AN, and followed the instruction of the QUR'AN:

"If ye realise this not, ask Of those who possess the Message."
[AL-QUR'AN 16:43 & 21:7]

All the information from the QUR'AN so gathered, was translated into English and presented to Prof. (Dr.) Keith Moore, who was the Professor of Embryology and Chairman of the Department of Anatomy at the University of Toronto, in Canada. At present he is one of the highest authorities in the field of Embryology. He was asked to give his opinion regarding the information present in the QUR'AN concerning the field of embryology. After carefully examining the translation of the Qur'anic verses presented to him, Dr. Moore said that most of the information concerning embryology mentioned in the QUR'AN is in perfect conformity with modern discoveries in the field of embryology and does not conflict with them in any way. He added that there were however a few verses, on whose scientific accuracy he could not comment. He could not say whether the statements were true or false, since he himself was not aware of the information contained therein. There was also mention of this information in modern writings and studies on embryology. One such verse is:

"Proclaim! (or Read!) In the name Of thy Lord and Cherisher, WHO created---Created man, out of A (mere) clot Of congealed blood."
[AL-QUR'AN 96:1-2]

The word 'alaq' besides meaning a congealed clot of blood also means something that clings, a leech-like substance. Dr. Keith Moore had no knowledge whether an embryo in the initial stages appears like a leech. To check this out he studied the initial stage of the embryo under a very powerful microscope in his laboratory and compared what he observed with a diagram of a leech and he was astonished at the striking resemblance between the two! In the same manner, he acquired more information on embryology, that was hitherto not known to him, from the QUR'AN.
Dr. Keith Moore answered about eighty questions dealing with embryological data mentioned in the QUR'AN and HADITH. Noting that the information contained in the QUR'AN and HADITH was in full agreement with the latest discoveries in the field of embryology, Prof. Moore said, "If I was asked these questions thirty years ago, I would not have been able to answer half of them for lack of scientific information."
Dr. Keith Moore had earlier authored the book, 'The Developing Human'.After acquiring new knowledge from the QUR'AN, he wrote, in 1982, the 3rd edition of the same book, 'The Developing Human'. The book was the recipient of an award for the best medical book written by a single author. This book has been translated into several major languages of the world and is used as a textbook of embryology in the first year of medical studies. In 1981, during the Seventh Medical Conference in Dammam, Saudi Arabia, Dr. Moore said, "It has been a great pleasure for me to help clarify statements in the QUR'AN about human development. It is clear to me that these statements must have come to MUHAMMAD---sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam--- from GOD or ALLAH, because almost all of this knowledge was not discovered until many centuries later. This proves to me that MUHAMMAD---sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam--- must have been a messenger of GOD or ALLAH{The reference for this statement is the video tape titled 'This is the Truth'.For a copy of this video tape contact the Islamic Research Foundation}.
Dr. Joe Leigh Simpson, Chairman of the Department of Obstetrics and Gynaecology, at the Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, U.S.A., proclaims: "... these HADITHS, sayings of MUHAMMAD---sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam--- could not have been obtained on the basis of the scientific knowledge that was available at the time of the writer (7th century). It follows that not only is there no conflict between genetics and religion (ISLAM) but in fact religion (ISLAM) may guide science by adding revelation to some of the traditional scientific approaches... there exist statements in the QUR'AN shown centuries later to be valid which support knowledge in the QUR'AN having been derived from GOD."

MAN CREATED FROM A DROP EMITTED FROM BETWEEN THE BACKBONE AND THE RIBS

"Now let man but think From what he is created! He is created from A drop emitted --- Proceeding from between The back bone and the ribs."
[AL-QUR'AN 86:5-7]

In embryonic stages, the reproductive organs of the male and female, i.e. the testicles and the ovaries, begin their development near the kidney between the spinal column and the eleventh and twelfth ribs. Later they descend; the female gonads(ovaries) stop in the pelvis while the male gonads(testicles) continue their descent before birth to reach the scrotum through the inguinal canal. Even in the adult after the descent of the reproductive organ, these organs receive their nerve supply and blood supply from the Abdominal Aorta, which is in the area between the back bone(spinal column) and the ribs. Even the lymphatic drainage and the venous return goes to the same area.

HUMAN BEINGS CREATED FROM NUTFAH (Minute Quantity of Liquid)
The Glorious QUR'AN mentions no less than eleven times that the human being is created from 'nutfah', which means a minute quantity of liquid or a trickle of liquid which remains after emptying a cup. This is mentioned in several verses of the QUR'AN including 22:5 and 23:13. {The same is also mentioned in the QUR'AN in 16:4, 18:37, 35:11, 36:77, 40:67, 53:46, 75:37, 76:2 and 80:19} Science has confirmed in recent times that only one out of an average of three million sperms is required for fertilising the ovum. This means that only a 1/three millionth part or 0.00003% of the quantity of sperms that are emitted is required for fertilisation.

HUMAN BEINGS CREATED FROM SULALAH (quintessence of liquid)

"And made his progeny From a quintessence Of the nature of A fluid despised."
[AL-QUR'AN 32:8]

The Arabic word 'sulalah' means quintessence or the best part of a whole. We have come to know now that only one single spermatozoan that penetrates the ovum is required for fertilization, out of the several millions produced by man. That one spermatozoan out of several millions, is referred to in the QUR'AN as 'sulalah'. 'Sulalah' also means gentle extraction from a fluid.The fluid refers to both male and female germinal fluids containing gametes. Both ovum and sperm are gently extracted from their environments in the process of fertilization.

MAN CREATED FROM NUTFATUN AMSHAAJ (Mingled liquids)
Consider the following Qur'anic verse:

"Verily WE created Man from a drop Of mingled sperm."
[AL-QUR'AN 76:2]

The Arabic word 'nutfatun amshaajin' means mingled liquids. According to some commentators of the QUR'AN, mingled liquids refers to the male or female agents or liquids. After mixture of male and female gamete, the zygote still remains 'nutfah'. Mingled liquids can also refer to spermatic fluid that is formed of various secretions that come from various glands. Therefore 'nutfatun amshaaj', i.e. a minute quantity of mingled fluids refers to the male and female gametes (germinal fluids or cells) and part of the surrounding fluids.

SEX DETERMINATION

The sex of a foetus is determined by the nature of the sperm and not the ovum. The sex of the chil, whether female or male, depends on whether the 23rd pair of chromosomes is XX or XY respectively. Primarily sex determination occurs at fertilization and depends upon the type of sex chromosome in the sperm that fertilizes an ovum. If it is an 'X' bearing sperm that fertilizes the ovum, the foetus is a female and if it is a 'Y' bearing sperm then the foetus is a male.

"That HE did create In pairs---male and female, From a seed when lodged (In its place)."
[AL-QUR'AN 53:45-46]

The Arabic word 'nutfah' means a minute quantity of liquid and 'tumna' means ejaculated or planted. Therefore 'nutfah' specifically refers to sperm because it is ejaculated.

The QUR'AN says:

"Was he not a drop Of sperm emitted (In lowly form)? Then did he become A clinging clot; Then did (ALLAH) make And fashion (him) In due proportion. And of him HE made Two sexes, male And female."
[AL-QUR'AN 75:37-39]

Here again it is mentioned that a small quantity (drop) of sperm (indicated by the word 'nutfatan min maniyyin) which comes from the man is responsible for the sex of the foetus. Mothers-in-law in the Indian subcontinent, by and large prefer having male grandchildren and often blame their daughters-in-law if the child is not of the desired sex. If only they knew that the determining factor is the nature of the male sperm and not the female ovum! If they were to blame anybody, they should blame their sons and not their daughters-in-law since both the QUR'AN and Science hold that it is the male fluid that is responsible for the sex of the child!

FOETUS PROTECTED BY THREE VEILS OF DARKNESS

"HE makes you, In the wombs of your mothers, In stages, one after another, In three veils of darkness."
[AL-QUR'AN 39:6]

According to Prof. Keith Moore these three veils of darkness in the QUR'AN refer to"
(a) anterior abdominal wall of the mother
(b)the uterine wall (c)the amnio-chorionoic membrane.

EMBRYONIC STAGES

"Man WE did create From a quintessence (of clay); Then WE placed him As ( a drop of) sperm In a place of rest, firmly fixed; Then WE made the sperm Into a clot of congealed blood; Then of that clot WE made A (foetus) lump; then WE Made out of that lump Bones and clothed the bones With flesh; then WE developed Out of it another creature. So blessed be ALLAH, The Best to create!"
[AL-QUR'AN 23:12-14]

In this verse ALLAH states that man is created from a small quantity of liquid which is placed in a place of rest, firmly fixed(well established or lodged) for which the Arabic word 'qararin makin' is used. The uterus is well protected from the posterior by the spinal column supported firmly by the back muscles. The embryo is further protected by the amniotic sac containing the amniotic fluid. Thus the foetus has a well protected dwelling place. This small quantity of fluid is made into 'alaqah', meaning something which clings. It also means a leech-like substance. Both descriptions are scientifically acceptable as in the very early stages the foetus clings to the wall and also appears to resemble the leech in shape. It also behaves like a leech(blood sucker) and acquires its blood supply from the mother through the placenta. The third meaning of the word 'alaqah' is a blood clot. During this 'alaqah' stage, which spans the third and fourth week of pregnancy, the blood clots within closed vessels. Hence, the embryo acquires the appearance of a blood clot in addition to acquiring the appearance of a leech. In 1677, Hamm and Leeuwenhoek were the first scientists to observe human sperm cells(spermatozoa) using a microscope. They thought that a sperm cell contained a miniature human being which grew in the uterus to form a newborn. This was known as the perforation theory. When scientists discovered that the ovum was bigger than the sperm, it was thought by De Graf and others that the foetus existed in a miniature form in the ovum. Later, in the 18th century Maupertuis propagated the theory of biparental inheritence. The 'alaqah' is transformed into 'mudghah' which means 'something that is chewed(having teeth marks)' and also something that is tacky and small which can be put in the mouth like gum. Both these explanations are scientifically correct. Prof. Keith Moore took a piece of plaster seal and made it into the size and shape of the early stage of foetus and chewed it between the teeth to make it into a 'Mudgha'. He compared this with the photographs of the early stage of foetus. The teeth marks resembled the 'somites' which is the early formation of the spinal column. This 'mudghah' is transformed into bones (izam). The bones are clothed with intact flesh or muscles (lahm). Then ALLAH makes it into another creature.
Prof. Marshall Johnson is one of the leading scientists in US, and is the head of the Department of Anatomy and Director of the Daniel Institute at the Thomas Jefferson University in Philadelphia in US. He was asked to comment on the verses of the QUR'AN dealing with embryology. He said that the verses of the QUR'AN describing the embryological stages cannot be a coincidence. He said it was probable