View Full Version : Caparo T1 update (1400bhp/tonne) :)
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/first_official_picture.php?sid=599&page=1
They've gone for a bigger but more efficient engine, pushing out an estimated 700bhp without dramatically raising the weight.
Gone is the supercharged 2.4-litre V8, and in comes a bespoke, all-aluminium, naturally aspirated 3.5-litre V8. Of course, this means more power. Rather than a measly 480bhp, especially in the days of 600bhp S-classes, the new engine promises up to 200bhp per litre. That’ll be 700bhp, then.
Check the link for completed prototypes undergoing shakedown on the road. Now where's that £200k?
EDIT: Another good link: http://www.gizmag.co.uk/go/7017/
EDIT2: Thanks Youtube :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeZ5nM4nL28
Spank666
03-26-2007, 04:21 PM
Sweet car, shitty journalism.
"It does, but it also weighs two tonnes. Caparo promises the T1 will weigh a quarter of that. That's 700bhp in a 500kg car. Incredibly, that’s 100kg less than a typical Formula 1 car, and equates to 1400bhp per tonne: the Bugatti manages a piffling 506."
Thats where I stopped reading. The Caparo T1 and Bugatti Veyron are made for entirely different purposes. The T1 is built very specifically for the power to weight ratio. The Veyron is built very specifically to be a fast luxury car that will last over 10 years with just regular maintenence. Trying to compare any figures of the two cars is just fucking ridiculous.
PitwrkzZ1
03-26-2007, 05:27 PM
Every single one of these cars will be wreaked within a year of delivery, mark my words...
EeekiE
03-27-2007, 05:17 AM
If they're bought by rich kids they will, but it wont be a fault of the car as such.
Thats where I stopped reading. The Caparo T1 and Bugatti Veyron are made for entirely different purposes. The T1 is built very specifically for the power to weight ratio. The Veyron is built very specifically to be a fast luxury car that will last over 10 years with just regular maintenence. Trying to compare any figures of the two cars is just fucking ridiculous.
You stop reading because some journo decides to make a comparison between the fastest car in the world with potentially the quickest car in the world? Seems a bit over sensitive to me.
elliott678
03-27-2007, 09:44 AM
You stop reading because some journo decides to make a comparison between the fastest car in the world with potentially the quickest car in the world?Fast and quick are two different things, dragsters are quick, cars built for Bonneville are fast, they aren't comparable.
But it's still possible to compare the specifications of any car to any other. You say the cars have different applications, but that doesn't change the fact that you can compare the statistics. You might question the motivation, which I feel is to take what the general public see as the highest performance car in the world and compare what it is and what it does to another 'uber-car', and there's nothing wrong with that.
elliott678
03-27-2007, 10:48 AM
But it's still possible to compare the specifications of any car to any other. OK, Can it seat 4 adults in comfort? No.
What kind of stereo does it have? None.
Are the seats heated? No.
Can it drive on a dirt road with pot holes? No.
Well then it is no contest for my mom's Impala.
We can compare anything to anything, whether or not the comparison is useful or not is another thing. This comparison shows the Caparo fails at being a nice comfortable road car.
Indeed and in that sense it is a valid comparison.
What about we compare the T1 and the Veyron in terms of sporting performance?
I will admit that the Veyron is about making a swish looking concept car with 2 crazy numbers (1000bhp 250mph) into a real vehicle on the road, but there is a perception that it has hyper sporting performance. So if we were to compare sporting performance with another road car (though admittedly a more focussed one) we are not comparing a GSX-R with a H2.
elliott678
03-27-2007, 11:04 AM
What about we compare the T1 and the Veyron in terms of sporting performance?What if we compare them, but leave performance out of it, which is a better car?
I presume you mean sporting performance rather than any other performance metric (such as the ability to carry passengers or fuel economy for example).
Well the Caparo promises better fuel economy.
Pick your metric.
elliott678
03-27-2007, 11:34 AM
Pick your metric.
Say the prospective buyer is looking for a car that he could drive daily in all conditions, he wants all of the creature comforts and the option to go fast. He also wants a car that looks like a car and can take to a fancy restaurant and not feel out of place and look like a jackass.
Out of the Veyron and the Caparo, which suits him better?
Sure the cars can be compared, but why compare cars that were built for two different purposes.
What's this hypothetical person's budget?
elliott678
03-27-2007, 11:37 AM
What's this hypothetical person's budget?
Unlimited, he is just deciding between the cars.
Then he would be best served by a T1 and a big Merc... who want's a jack of all trades but a master of none?
elliott678
03-27-2007, 11:51 AM
Then he would be best served by a T1 and a big Merc... who want's a jack of all trades but a master of none? The point I am trying to get across is, why compare a track toy to a luxury car, sure the track toy is quicker and better handling, but the luxury car wasn't built for that, just like the track toy wasn't built for luxury. You can pull two arbitrary statistics from any two cars and make one better than the other, but what is the point.
The point I am trying to get across is, why compare a track toy to a luxury car, sure the track toy is quicker and better handling, but the luxury car wasn't built for that, just like the track toy wasn't built for luxury. You can pull two arbitrary statistics from any two cars and make one better than the other, but what is the point.
The point is that the Veyron isn't just a luxury car, it's performance is very much what the Veyron is, the 'luxury' is somewhat secondary in most people's minds. So it is a valid comparison to compare it to other high performance road cars... why is everyone getting so defensive, the Veyron's Vmax will not be threatened by the T1.
EeekiE
03-27-2007, 12:27 PM
I've said it before but I think the Veyron is just an Audi TT from the future. Just the natural 'inflation' of performance figures, in a package as easy to live with and unthreatening as a Golf.
The T1 will just be the ultimate track day car that you don't need to trailor.
It's fair enough comparing the two, just as Top Gear do Lotus vs Helicopter Gunship, or Landrover vs Tank. They're never competing, as the Veyron wouldn't have been anyones first choice as a drivers car no matter how much money they have.
It's fair enough comparing the two, just as Top Gear do Lotus vs Helicopter Gunship, or Landrover vs Tank. They're never competing, as the Veyron wouldn't have been anyones first choice as a drivers car no matter how much money they have.
No I don't think it's one of those types of comparison at all, I suppose if we were to compare 200mph+ luxury coupe's than you have the Bugatti, the Bentley, the VW... pretty much the domain of the VW group then.
However, you never see this, you always see the Veyron vs [top google hits "veyron vs"] an F1, Enzo, Zonda, Carrera, R1 and so on.
Are we really suggesting that the T1 is so hardcore, so right on the money, that the Enzo is so lardy and bloated that it cannot be compared?
Spank666
03-27-2007, 01:44 PM
Are we really suggesting that the T1 is so hardcore, so right on the money, that the Enzo is so lardy and bloated that it cannot be compared?
Honestly, I think a good comparison to the T1 would be a car such as the Ferrari FXX. Its an all-out track car, as is the T1. Luxuries are at a bare minimum, its a light car, strong engine, awesome suspension, all that jazz.
The Enzo is still a pretty good comparison to both the T1 and the Veyron. I see it is somewhat of a middle ground between the two cars. On one end of the spectrum, the Enzo is comparable to the T1. On the other end of the spectrum, it is comparable to the Veyron. The T1 and Veyron, as far as performance is concerned, are on opposite ends of the spectrum.
EeekiE
03-27-2007, 01:45 PM
Yes it is that hardcore. It's a road legal race car. It's on par with the likes of Radical SR3/8 Westfield XTR2/4, Caterham Superlight, Ariel Atom*. Basically track cars, that you don't have to trailor about (which you don't want to do as that requires a V8 pickup) and can have a summer-time Sunday drive with. They aren't every day commuter cars.
You can compare them just as the Westfield and Atom have been pitted against the Enzo on Top Gear, but they're not competing for each other's sales, and they were never designed to be a rival to the Enzo/Veyron etc.
In race cars, all that matters is what G's it can pull in which directions. In road cars, it simply isn't. Roads are for touring.
VW didn't decide to try and make the best car in the world that they could possibly do, and THEN find out it had 1000bhp and could do 250mph. They wanted a car that had 1000bhp and could do 250mph before pen hit paper. That was the goal, and they acheived it with success.
And don't get me wrong. I think the T1 is fucking amazing, and would want one over any other single car in the world as that's the sort of car I like. But I don't see it as making the Veyron redundant in any way shape or form.
*Incidently all British
ThaiTanium22
03-27-2007, 01:51 PM
http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/5470/bugattieb164veyroninteroa4.th.jpg (http://img74.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bugattieb164veyroninteroa4.jpg)
http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/6465/ferrarienzointerior1280tv0.th.jpg (http://img122.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ferrarienzointerior1280tv0.jpg)
http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/8046/2005paganizondafninterika3.th.jpg (http://img122.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2005paganizondafninterika3.jpg)
http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/9895/t1xp2.th.jpg (http://img106.imageshack.us/my.php?image=t1xp2.jpg)
http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/5470/bugattieb164veyroninteroa4.th.jpg (http://img74.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bugattieb164veyroninteroa4.jpg)
http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/6465/ferrarienzointerior1280tv0.th.jpg (http://img122.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ferrarienzointerior1280tv0.jpg)
http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/8046/2005paganizondafninterika3.th.jpg (http://img122.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2005paganizondafninterika3.jpg)
http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/9895/t1xp2.th.jpg (http://img106.imageshack.us/my.php?image=t1xp2.jpg)
Haha, I looked for a picture of the T1's interrior too and failed. However if you take your second picture and show it at a decent resolution you will see that it is hardly luxurious:
http://www.seriouswheels.com/pics-def/Ferrari-Enzo-Interior-1280x960.jpg
compare the Enzo interior above, with this:
http://www.ultimasports.co.uk/gtr/pics/gtr88.jpg
which is pretty spartan and not too dissimilar from the Enzo.
I'll predict that the T1 will be quite comfortable for the driving conditions it was designed for.
http://www.nnauto.cn/auto/gallery/Freestream/2006%20T1/images/2006-FreeStream-T1%20(3)_jpg.jpg
My point is, if you're buying an Enzo for luxurious cruising of the strip you're deluded, and if you want to be comfy on the track you want a seat that really contains you.
PitwrkzZ1
03-27-2007, 08:01 PM
So the T1 is the perfect car. I see...
So the T1 is the perfect car. I see...
Maybe not, but it might be the highest performance road car ever when it ships.
Sorry about the double post, but either that or a new thread which seems a bit excessive.
I was leafing through Evo magazine this month and they sum up the British sportscar industry manufacturer by manufacturer.
In the section about Caparo they say that the engine is being tuned to 'only' produce 550bhp stock, but the first customer car weighs in at just under 470kg dry. That makes 1170bhp/t.
I wonder if they'll have in on Top Gear, on the same speed board as the other trackday specials (no luggage space)?
NSX-R
04-14-2007, 02:25 PM
The Caparo T1 will be the first road-legal production car to possess a better power-to-weight ratio than a modern Formula One car. Yes, many owners will die as a result of this.
The Caparo T1 will be the first road-legal production car to possess a better power-to-weight ratio than a modern Formula One car. Yes, many owners will die as a result of this.
Let's see: Minimum weight for an F1 car is 600kg, the McLaren MP4-22's Mercedes F0108T pushes 770bhp. That makes over 1280bhp/t, so in stock form the T1 loses out. If a customer were to take a spanner to the engine of the T1 though...
EeekiE
04-14-2007, 03:38 PM
Sorry about the double post, but either that or a new thread which seems a bit excessive.
I was leafing through Evo magazine this month and they sum up the British sportscar industry manufacturer by manufacturer.
In the section about Caparo they say that the engine is being tuned to 'only' produce 550bhp stock, but the first customer car weighs in at just under 470kg dry. That makes 1170bhp/t.
I wonder if they'll have in on Top Gear, on the same speed board as the other trackday specials (no luggage space)?
Damn right. And as previously mentioned, Hammond would have to sit in the Beadle seat.
NSX-R
04-14-2007, 09:06 PM
Let's see: Minimum weight for an F1 car is 600kg, the McLaren MP4-22's Mercedes F0108T pushes 770bhp. That makes over 1280bhp/t, so in stock form the T1 loses out. If a customer were to take a spanner to the engine of the T1 though...
Huh? The Caparo's 1400 BHP/tonne beats out the Mac's.
Spank666
04-14-2007, 09:32 PM
Huh? The Caparo's 1400 BHP/tonne beats out the Mac's.
Last time I checked, 1170 is less than 1280.
NSX-R
04-15-2007, 01:24 AM
Caparo T1: 700 bhp/500 kg = 1.40 bhp/kg
F1 Mclaren: 770 bhp/600 kg = 1.28 bhp/kg
Check the math. Caparo is tops.
Spank666
04-15-2007, 01:31 AM
Caparo T1: 700 bhp/500 kg = 1.40 bhp/kg
F1 Mclaren: 770 bhp/600 kg = 1.28 bhp/kg
Check the math. Caparo is tops.
Check your numbers. The T1 is tuned down to 550 hp, but only weighs 470kg. You can check the math if you wish.
NSX-R
04-15-2007, 01:35 AM
Title and first post indicate 700 bhp. If it's really 550 then it's the OP's fault.
Spank666
04-15-2007, 01:41 AM
Title and first post indicate 700 bhp. If it's really 550 then it's the OP's fault.
If you read through the thread, you'll see that the OP later bumped the thread in order to provide new, more accurate information. Its not the OP's fault you're lazy.
vBulletin® v3.7.2, Copyright ©2000-2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.