2008 Shelby GT500-KR

[Steeda]

540 hp!

http://www.seriouswheels.com/cars/top-2008-Ford-Mustang-Shelby-GT500KR-King-of-the-Road.htm

[snyderman]

Very sweet, but my kitted out Dodge Omni looks just like that. 'Cept mine has a killer wooden spoiler and Timex tach.

[Sylvestre]

yay another mustang :squint: :sleeping2

[DarcSystems]

:sleeping2

Another mustang for another year. Oh the agony.

[FunSeeker]

apparently there are talks of an even nastier gt500kr with optional performance mods that will be around 600hp to rival the corvette ss.

[EeekiE]

Let's just hope they also pay attention to the handling this time.

[Sylvestre]

Let's just hope they also pay attention to the handling this time.

I doubt it, its probably just another fast in a straight line box

[EeekiE]

It's not just that. Rousch (?) managed to give one less power than the GT500, but payed lots of attention to the suspension and brakes and made a MUCH faster car.

[DarcSystems]

It's not just that. Rousch (?) managed to give one less power than the GT500, but payed lots of attention to the suspension and brakes and made a MUCH faster car.

Roush is badassery.

[elliott678]

It's not just that. Rousch (?) managed to give one less power than the GT500, but payed lots of attention to the suspension and brakes and made a MUCH faster car.
The original GT500 was a fat poor handling pig, the GT350 was built to handle. I guess they are just keeping with tradition, they just don't have a big block to stuff in it and make it nose heavy.

[SyDias]

On my way to work today I saw one of these (Shelby GT500s), pulled up right next to me at a light... Sounded awesome! Didn't have the stripes though or perhaps it did, either way I was half sleep and from what I could see it just had the Cobra emblem.

[L4NC3R]

... another Mustang eh? I guess Ford came up for air after milking the Mustang name and realized the first GT500 sucked ass. Well, I'm glad they're taking the effort to make a real performance Mustang - whilst... yet making another model of Mustang.

And what the hell kind of name is "King of the Road?" That's something a trucker would have on his mud flaps.

Oh and the other day I saw a stock Neon keep up with a GT500. King of the Road eh? lmao...

[pat99872]

Doesn't look too bad.

[DarcSystems]

Maybe they really mean King Ranch...oh wait, that's the pickup.

The king ranch is sweet.

[Spank666]

Oh and the other day I saw a stock Neon keep up with a GT500.

I sure hope thats a joke. If not, you fail. Not even a barrel roll can save you now.

[DarcSystems]

I sure hope thats a joke. If not, you fail. Not even a barrel roll can save you now.

I guess it's easy when they're both going the speed limit.

Hopefully that's what he meant.

[L4NC3R]

I sure hope thats a joke. If not, you fail. Not even a barrel roll can save you now.

http://videos.streetfire.net/comment/0/6df61fa3-de0b-444e-88f0-984e001eba71.htm

:dunce:

[ThaiTanium22]

http://videos.streetfire.net/comment/0/6df61fa3-de0b-444e-88f0-984e001eba71.htm

:dunce:
10 characters.
Oh and the other day I saw a stock Neon keep up with a GT500.

[Spank666]

http://videos.streetfire.net/comment/0/6df61fa3-de0b-444e-88f0-984e001eba71.htm

:dunce:

Thats not a stock Neon, nor is it a GT500.

:dunce:

[DarcSystems]

hahahaha, what the hell just happened?


Greatest burn ever Lancer. Greatest burn ever.:dunce:

[yamahadrummer]

http://videos.streetfire.net/comment/0/6df61fa3-de0b-444e-88f0-984e001eba71.htm

:dunce:

yes, but after you rack up 100,000 mil on both of them....the neon's 4 banger will be blown up from the 22 psi, while the gt500 will probably still run fine since its stock, other than the exhaust. that 22psi has to be hard on that engine. the gt500 would be more reliable

[El Jarretto]

L4NC3R...the jokester?

[pat99872]

Mustang > neon

[OE800]

:sleeping2 another 540 hp mustang, when will ford stop whoring out 500HP+ cars and start keeping it real?

anyone know what the sticker price is going to be on that bad boy?

[L4NC3R]

The GT500-KR's price hasn't been announced yet. Though I bet this would drop the price of the regular GT500 substantially and replace it as the $100k lot car. But at this level of expense, I don't really understand how anyone could be looking at simply a Mustang.

Surely such cunsumers are looking into rarer, more socially iconic cars - not a car any 20 year old kid could drive off a lot any time they want (and yes, I compared it to the V6 Mustang, because afterall... isn't the GT500-KR just a Mustang?).

Oh, and Ford Dealerships really do markup. I saw a Ford GT a while ago that comes to mind... Ford's MSRP is $125,000 I beleive (or somewhere around there)? Yeah, well... the dealer's price tag was $270,000.

[Meio]

540 hp!

1600kg!

this thing won't even rival a zo6 let alone any super performance vette coming out.....by better handling they meant stiffer suspension...which will mean louder cabin...bumpier ride....and better 10 degree turns....which will be all about this thing can handle...

Shelby needs to either get Ford to take at least 1/3 of the Mustang's weight away or go back to begging British companies to make him a real chassis for his engines.

A lighter car woul help the handling no end, why do you think the Z06 has so much magnesium in it?

[Danny Lee]

Cut it's power by a third to free up expenses to allow them to cut weight and improve cornering and improve balance (yes, you heard me, sometimes less power is better), and the mustang might just have a chance as a US car for the UK audience, but it'll never happen because people are mesmerised with big power figures, plus it defeats the mustang's hypothesis towards cars. But to be honest, I think buying a car with only looks and grunt going for it in stock form is silly. The mustang featured here has apx, 335bhp per ton. Still impressive, and the total sum of power can let it reach high speeds, but it's more a story of what could have been. I'd have no problems or issues (patriotic, pride, ego) if ford, chevy etc bought out a really whispy, really sharp (and cheap) car that can match the capabilities of a Skyline, Evo etc. One of the main arguments for the corvette and mustang and co, are that they can outdrag much more expensive cars. I just wait for the day when they make a car which can out-drag AND out-turn more expensive house-name cars. Is it just me that thinks a one-trick pony would get boring fairly quickly? lolz, unless u r pwning ricer fagg1ts wit a musstang. Yawn.

It's pretty much what roush tried to do with their GT model, and it worked fairly well, as they shown on TG once.

I think I explained myself adequately.

[Meio]

Where have you been for the past few years? As the yanks insist on bleating on, they have got a car with decent all round performance. The Z06 can corner. All your fillings might end up getting rattled out in the process and you might as well be sitting in a 1980s Toyota when it's not going anywhere, but when it does go somewhere it can do so quickly and relatively cheaply.

Costs twice what the Mustang costs admittedly, but it costs less than a Ferrari or Porsche of similar performance.

[L4NC3R]

With an 11.5 second 1/4 mile time and a 200mph top speed... at merely 505hp, it rivals many top premium sports cars. Which is why the Z06 will always have a place in my heart. Chevorlet knows how to do it. The Corvette has been a model that evolves. Every generation... every year the Corvette's performance gets just that much better. And to think... they're going to come out with 650hp Supercharged Z06! OMG.

[Meio]

With an 11.5 second 1/4 mile time and a 200mph top speed... at merely 505hp, it rivals many top premium sports cars. Which is why the Z06 will always have a place in my heart. Chevorlet knows how to do it. The Corvette has been a model that evolves. Every generation... every year the Corvette's performance gets just that much better. And to think... they're going to come out with 650hp Supercharged Z06! OMG.

The Z06 is better than it's performance on the strip.

I hope the next evolution of the corvette strips some more weight off the Z06's 1400kgs rather than adding power, maybe then they can put some springs in there that don't perform unwanted dental surgery while improving performance.

[EeekiE]

I like the Z06. It has a few rough edges but it gets the job done. It, however, will never grace the roads with as much elegance as the cars alot of people compare it to.

With an 11.5 second 1/4 mile time and a 200mph top speed... at merely 505hp, it rivals many top premium sports cars.

Sports cars aren't about drag and top speed. Fortunately the car turns well too so all good.

[Kumacho]

The Z06 is better than it's performance on the strip.

I hope the next evolution of the corvette strips some more weight off the Z06's 1400kgs rather than adding power, maybe then they can put some springs in there that don't perform unwanted dental surgery while improving performance.

Either you just don't get it or you don't want to get it...

You are talking about American cars build for American roads. Not American cars built for UK roads. Just like Germans build cars to suit their roads, American manufacturers build cars to suit the roads in the US.

Our roads don't make a vehicle with a stiff suspension jar your back to the point you lose an inch of height after a short drive. Our roads are smooth and well maintained and our cars are designed for them.

Your scorn and prejudice for everything US built is evident and we get it. You disdain anything US built and we don't need to hear about it in every single post. We know your opinion on the matter (Lord knows we know it) and you stating the same old crap time after time is just annoying as all holy hell.

On British roads lighter with less power is what is needed. However, in your small mind you seem to think that all roads are like the ones in the UK and thus all cars MUST be built to the same specs as British cars. If they aren’t they are pure crap.

Do yourself and us a favor; quit looking and sounding like a complete wanker that could give two shits about why certain countries build cars the way they do. Your ignorance and arrogance only leads people to look unfavorably on all Brits. Most people that post here have not been around British people (like I have) and it would be easy for you to make your uninformed and biased views seem to be that of all Brits.

So in short, bugger off!

[Danny Lee]

I have come to think the Z06 is the premium of american sportscars (not counting hypercars like Saleen's and so on), if it turns well with it's existing setup, imagine if chevy's equivalent of roush got their hands on it?

I saw a video of hardline acceleration of the Z06 and I honestly couldn't possibly IMAGINE acceleration like that (which is reasonable if you saw my car in action on the long and straights). It really is a muscle-car, even though I will always prefer the looks of the C4 anyday.

Certain brit forum members, particularly the ones who use public transport in the middle of london and don't actually drive, are to be excused on the topic of UK>US roads. On our roads, a ford focus ST is an animal, but can you imagine 200+bhp through an LSD cutting it on the highways in the states? It's nothing, you'd be outrun by camaro's and G35's all day long. What would be the point in owning a car with insane cornering capabilities (and in most broad circumstances a LOT of power) if the only chance of using it is on 90 degree intersection turns at the stop lights? The matter of location and road systems is just an annoyance to people from different parts of the world trying to come together on the subject of cars, it makes it difficult when one half is incapable of collaborating with the lifestyle of the other half. It happens amongst americans more than it does with europeans. We have massive long motorways and A-roads as well as super-tight countryside lanes, but as far as I know such B-road activity is scarcely found in the US, which is why I come to that conclusion. I can imagine it's hard to find a good place for a Civic or Mini Cooper (for example) on the US roads, whereas you only need to drive 5 miles down the road to enter a realm where either car would be an absolute blast, and you wouldn't need any more power, but simply the sweet stability of an FWD compact car.

[Kumacho]

Danny,

Thank you. Now that is a reasonable and even insightful response.

Below are what is considered to be winding roads in the US:

http://access.wa.gov/images/categories/siteinfo.jpg

http://www.bluepoof.com/pics/may04/052904-putt/cache/75pct/352_5256.JPG

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a74/serpsurfer/Touring1/hwy3_switchback.jpg

Notice something here? All of the road surfaces are as nice as a race track! Smooth and even the twisties have nice straights over here.

As I've said before, I fully understand the mind set that in the UK you need a small, light car with a compliant suspension. I have driven on the roads in the UK, France, Germany (What a hoot!), Italy, Australia, Hong Kong, Korea, Japan, South Africa, Singapore, UAE, Egypt and Mexico. Roads in South Africa, Australia, UAE and Egypt are very much like those in the states. Guess what kind of vehicles is most prominent in those countries...

[EeekiE]

......camels?

[yamahadrummer]

camels are nasty.

[FuNkYFreSH]

A new Lightning would have been news. Mustangs...they're a dime a dozen.

[elliott678]

A new Lightning would have been news. Mustangs...they're a dime a dozen.So are F-150s.

[Danny Lee]

I ought to film my favourite lane route one day - staggered lanes barely wide enough for 2 cars at points (which is why, if you want more fun, it's a better idea to go down them at night)

[L4NC3R]

Oh I know the Vette can turn. Its Nurburgring time is testimate to that.

[OE800]

A new Lightning would have been news. Mustangs...they're a dime a dozen.

that makesnosense.

[Meio]

Either you just don't get it or you don't want to get it...

No I don't think you get it.

You are talking about American cars build for American roads. Not American cars built for UK roads. Just like Germans build cars to suit their roads, American manufacturers build cars to suit the roads in the US.

So? Did I mention anything related to this at all?

Our roads don't make a vehicle with a stiff suspension jar your back to the point you lose an inch of height after a short drive. Our roads are smooth and well maintained and our cars are designed for them.

I was refering to the Z06 having apprently harsh but effective suspension, on any road, relative to the reported ride of other similar cars. What has the US having smoother roads than anywhere else on the world got to do with this?

Your scorn and prejudice for everything US built is evident and we get it. You disdain anything US built and we don't need to hear about it in every single post. We know your opinion on the matter (Lord knows we know it) and you stating the same old crap time after time is just annoying as all holy hell.

Chill out! I was suggesting that in order to improve performance Shelby could do with losing a few hundred kilos from the stock Mustang rather than adding a few more horses, now you're accusing me of hating all American cars. What is your fucking problem?

On British roads lighter with less power is what is needed. However, in your small mind you seem to think that all roads are like the ones in the UK and thus all cars MUST be built to the same specs as British cars. If they aren’t they are pure crap.

Who said anything about less power?

Get it into your tiny brain: Lighter = faster.

Do yourself and us a favor; quit looking and sounding like a complete wanker that could give two shits about why certain countries build cars the way they do. Your ignorance and arrogance only leads people to look unfavorably on all Brits. Most people that post here have not been around British people (like I have) and it would be easy for you to make your uninformed and biased views seem to be that of all Brits.

Ingnorance huh? Arrogance huh?

I suggest you read this entire thread again.

So in short, bugger off!

Fuck you.

[L4NC3R]

A new Lightning would have been news. Mustangs...they're a dime a dozen.
No, no... A new Ford GT would've been news. I would've really liked to see Ford be the first to push the envelope and elevate the level of competition between the big three by coming out with a production 650hp Ford GT first. But it seems the absolute opposite is happening. Both Viper and Vette are slated to bring in 600hp+ in the near future, while Ford does absolutely nothing with their GT.

The GT I thought was a very successful car. It had excellent tracks times, and was truly an iconic figure. It was a very fitting car to bring back. But I guess in terms of track performance, they're more concerned about their Mustang which sux0rz baw1s like crazy. 500hp, and it couldn't even keep up with many of the premium performance sedans. Magazines and media sources compared it to base Corvettes. And still, the Corvette seemed to be quicker. How week was that?

And I still don't think people will look at a fucking Mustang when they could buy more exclusive cars. I mean, who in the right mind is going to work hard their whole lives to finally be able to reach a financial status great enough to afford... a Mustang? Good job! Glad you could finally buy your Mustang. :sleeping2

And as far as the Corvette and its capabilities goes...

I think there is a rather LARGE percentage of people who buy Corvettes that actually take them to the track, whether that be a dragstrip or a full circuit. There are a ton of racing leagues out there exclusive for Corvettes - and then you have the leagues open to everyone. So the Corvette's capabilities are definitely relevant and necessary to the people who buy them.

[EeekiE]

I'd say the Ford GT will more than hold it's own vs a 600bhp Viper on a real road/track.

[Kumacho]

Meio,

You truly are an idiot. You flame American machinery at every corner and I for one am tired of you plastering you obviously bigoted views in any and every thread remotely relating to American Vehicles. We get it already; you don't like the way Americans build their cars. Enough is enough already... I've become quite impressed by the change in civility by another "shit stirrer" on these boards. Nicely done by the way L4nc3r, how about you give Meio a lesson or two in civility now?

If you make derogatory comments expect responses like this. If you make ignorant and uninformed comments based on only your small world perception I will be calling you out on your foolishness.

If you are really a scientist, start acting like one. So far you have made it very obvious that you can't possibly be a scientist as one of the most important parts of being involved in science is objectivity. You have made it more than evident that you have no objectivity in this matter and therefore you views must be discounted as tainted and invalid.

[Danny Lee]

And I still don't think people will look at a fucking Mustang when they could buy more exclusive cars. I mean, who in the right mind is going to work hard their whole lives to finally be able to reach a financial status great enough to afford... a Mustang? Good job! Glad you could finally buy your Mustang. :sleeping2

I don't think you make a very good point at all there, and I'm probably going to ramble here so look out - I don't work and learn so that I can get enough money to buy the most exclusive and OMGLOADED car/house/clothes out there. You see most people, whilst they respect and adore supercars and hypercars like ferrari/lamborghini/maserati, wouldn't actually prefer them in a choice standoff between a random supercar and their own personal car soul mate. Most people know what their favourite all-time car is. The importance here is to distinguish a car which impresses them, from a car which takes them captive and makes them feel right at home, and their looks, behaviour and advantages all strike deep and true. If a mechanic and motor enthusiast prefers a Mustang (something he might be able to get personal with and maintain it himself, moreso true with the older ones I'd imagine?) over a murcielago (not allowed to touch it incase it voids the warranty), then that is 100% reasonable. I know that's the case for me.

I have a blessing which can only be shared by a small fraction of UK car-fans at such a young age - any other people either don't care for it, don't know or don't have the ability to because of warranty or technicality, or just don't think they can.

It's been approximately half a year since I passed my driving test - about a year and a quarter since I got my car. Since then I have quickly flourished and grown an intimate knowledge of it - I had an incentive to, because this car is my all-time favourite car, and still has plenty of life left in it. With the desire to learn and the desire to get stuck in I've already started modding the engine in a way which I deem to be traditional and sentimental. Early in the year I carried out a small, but heavily calculated and long-winded conversion to a bigger carburettor and bigger bore inlet manifold, topped off with an improved airbox and manual choke. It took a lot of preparation, effort, searching and guts (at points) to do it, but I now drive around at least 8-10% better off in power, and spurred on with the knowledge that there is so much more to come, so cheaply. It cost me over 200 pounds (apx. $380?) in total for all the parts involved, the main parts (carburettor and inlet manifold) were all original equipment (OEM) from other models, and was all put in by myself (with a friend to hold stuff steady). When it was all done and in, my mate remarked 'you should be proud of yourself', and I have been encouraged ever since, because I was only just 18 at the time. Think back to when people could play mix-and-match just as easily in their garages and sheds with their 60's and 70's GM's and Fords, and you get what I mean by sentimental. To a portion of people, that's the epitome of car enthusiasm - homebrew modifying with more than just cash and labour costs to think about, but care and craftwork. Don't get me wrong, there is still great taste and knowledge to be put across by what car and mods you choose, and with many cars it takes great expertise to mess with them, which brings me to my point. I can do lots of things easily and with good access with my 1990 VW Polo, so long as I have the advice, instruction and will to put myself on the line for potential mistakes. There is no way in hell I could do it even if I wanted to with a 2007 Polo GTI Cup edition, even with almost four times more power and much higher levels of performance. It just wouldn't matter, I could never touch anything more than the wheel, gearlever and pedals. It is largely invisible to others how much my old (by standard definition), cheap ($800), slow (80bhp/ton) and gimmickless hatchback means to me, and how it's taught me respect for cars for what they are.

In short, Bentley can keep their continental GT's, Maclaren can keep their F1's (that would admittedly be a difficult thing to say in real life :lol:), In my perfect vision I'd have a big garage full of tools and 1982-1994 VW Polo's, and the education to do pretty much anything with them, and the money to buy anything for them, and the energy to race them :)

---

Well that's gonna be a bit of hard labour to read it all through, I forgot what the topic was all about, but there you go.

[DarcSystems]

Lancer seems to find it hard to believe that not everyone is looking for a status symbol. Some people actually like the cars they buy. Does it hurt your feelings when your opinion doesn't matter to anyone? Because from where I'm sitting, it seems like it really bothers you. People who buy mustangs do so because they like them. If they want the performance of a ferrari, they would most likely save up to buy a ferrari instead. I'm pretty sure you sitting there arguing how bad Mustangs are isn't going to hurt the sales of them any. Or maybe you're just going on the possibility that a Ford rep is going to stumble upon this thread, read what you've wrote, and finally open Fords eyes that all this time the millions of people buying mustangs don't really like them.

Best advice I can give you for that is, keep chipping away at it. Your opinion will catch on someday. You'll finally make people see that they DON'T like mustangs. You might even be able to convince them that their favorite color isn't really their favorite, or that they spell their own name wrong. I'm glad we have people like you Lancer, to help the people better understand themselves. :wave:

[Sylvestre]

Lancer seems to find it hard to believe that not everyone is looking for a status symbol. Some people actually like the cars they buy. Does it hurt your feelings when your opinion doesn't matter to anyone? Because from where I'm sitting, it seems like it really bothers you. People who buy mustangs do so because they like them. If they want the performance of a ferrari, they would most likely save up to buy a ferrari instead. I'm pretty sure you sitting there arguing how bad Mustangs are isn't going to hurt the sales of them any. Or maybe you're just going on the possibility that a Ford rep is going to stumble upon this thread, read what you've wrote, and finally open Fords eyes that all this time the millions of people buying mustangs don't really like them.

Best advice I can give you for that is, keep chipping away at it. Your opinion will catch on someday. You'll finally make people see that they DON'T like mustangs. You might even be able to convince them that their favorite color isn't really their favorite, or that they spell their own name wrong. I'm glad we have people like you Lancer, to help the people better understand themselves. :wave:

Lancer only speaks the truth, mustangs do suck

[OE800]

the mustang was designed and built to be an offordable "sporty" 4 seater, it was intended for young buyers, it is not and has never been a full on sports car, when are you kids going to accept that the mustang is not intended to compete with the corvette? oh yeah, and mustangs suxorsz LOL

Lancer seems to find it hard to believe that not everyone is looking for a status symbol. Some people actually like the cars they buy. Does it hurt your feelings when your opinion doesn't matter to anyone? Because from where I'm sitting, it seems like it really bothers you. People who buy mustangs do so because they like them. If they want the performance of a ferrari, they would most likely save up to buy a ferrari instead. I'm pretty sure you sitting there arguing how bad Mustangs are isn't going to hurt the sales of them any. Or maybe you're just going on the possibility that a Ford rep is going to stumble upon this thread, read what you've wrote, and finally open Fords eyes that all this time the millions of people buying mustangs don't really like them.

Best advice I can give you for that is, keep chipping away at it. Your opinion will catch on someday. You'll finally make people see that they DON'T like mustangs. You might even be able to convince them that their favorite color isn't really their favorite, or that they spell their own name wrong. I'm glad we have people like you Lancer, to help the people better understand themselves. :wave:

:lol: you pretty much summed him up.

[EeekiE]

I'd way sooner have my G40, than a Ferrari that performs the same, but looks stunning and has a Ferrari badge.

I think Mustangs are a bit crude and naff compared to others, but so is my Polo. I guess you get people that buy cars for themselves, and people that effectively buy cars for other people. I buy cars for myself.

[L4NC3R]

Lancer seems to find it hard to believe that not everyone is looking for a status symbol.
Why then would someone spend over $100,000 for a car, if not in attempt for social status? For the performance? The Cobra doesn't have any. For the... super luxury? The Cobra doesn't have any of that either. Outside of it being supercharged with 500hp and a Cobra badge with a loud paint job... the Cobra is nothing. And if you really have $100,000 to blow on nothing, you're pretty well set in your ways and could very well afford/finance a "Ferrari" (and shit, it doesn't even have to be a Ferrari! Suprisingly you could probably afford other cars too :raiseeyeb ). So that in mind, you make your own assumptions about the people Ford is appealing to.

Some people actually like the cars they buy. Does it hurt your feelings when your opinion doesn't matter to anyone?
Nope. I just like to degrade the Cobra as much as possible because I see what it really is, and because I like to argue everyone's lame pro-Cobra points.

Best advice I can give you for that is, keep chipping away at it. Your opinion will catch on someday. You'll finally make people see that they DON'T like mustangs.
Why, thank you! Thank you for your support. I think I very much will express my opinion concerning the Cobra.

My opinion has no more affect (or meaning) than people who actually appreciate it. Its only those people who can't handle my opinion that think otherwise. I'm not questioning you. I'm questioning the Cobra. So don't feel it necessary to edit, copy and paste yourself in my opinions, you fucking nazi.

[DarcSystems]

What is this $100,000 you keep mentioning? The MSRP on a GT500 is like 40something thousand. I imagine the sportier, souped up variations won't be anywhere near 100,000 bucks, unless some ultra rare collectors edition comes out and some dealership price gouges. Dollar for dollar it's got exceptional performance and style. I'm sure that's what contributes to its fame and sales since its introduction. Like I said, people don't buy cars that they don't like, so just because you dislike it, does not mean everyone else does. Again, no one cares about your opinion. You can point out every flaw in the car that you can find, but it isn't going to do anything more than waste your time.

Carry on though, it's fun watching you get all worked up over something you supposedly care so little about. :)

[L4NC3R]

Because the last time I saw the price tag on a '07 GT500... it was over $100,000.

[DarcSystems]

Boy, that dealership really should send their customers to ebay, where you can pick a brand new one up for 60k ($44,000 MSRP)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2007-Ford-Mustang-Shelby-GT-500-GT500-Coupe-Brand-New_W0QQitemZ110109211959QQihZ001QQcategoryZ6236QQ rdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

But if you say they sell for 100,000 bucks, then who am I to argue?

[OE800]

the cobra is not intended to compete with the corvette.

Outside of it being supercharged with 500hp and a Cobra badge with a loud paint job... the Cobra is nothing.
:lmao:

without a truck bed, and 4 wheel drive, a chevy silverado is nothing, thats why they suck.

[L4NC3R]

the cobra is not intended to compete with the corvette.


:lmao:

without a truck bed, and 4 wheel drive, a chevy silverado is nothing, thats why they suck.
... that's not even a relevant statement. Should I have said... without a supercharger, 500hp, Cobra badge, and paint job... the Cobra's pretty much nothing. But thats not what I said. I said except for a supercharger, 500hp, cobra badge, and loud paint job... and the implication outside of the obvious is: its pretty much just another Mustang.

Unlike the Corvette Z06. Its got a whole other engine molded after the C6-R. It's got a whole other second on its lesser counterparts in the 1/4 mile, tops out at 200mph, and has a Nring time that would make even Ferrari enthusaists proud. However... the difference between the two cars is that Corvettes (C6) are usually pretty exclusive - more so than Ford's V6 Mustang which anyone making any kind of income can afford.

[DarcSystems]

And again, you're comparing the corvette to the mustang. Yes, the corvette is exclusive. It's meant to be. Mind you I can drive down to boxford and pass about a dozen of them on a single street, but exclusive nonetheless. The mustang, which you're comparing it to, is NOT MEANT TO BE EXCLUSIVE. It's meant to sell.

Regardless, your argument is lame, since you're saying a better performing cobra, bucked up against its base model is completely different from the better performing Z06 bucked up against its base model.

The Z06, without all the things that make it a Z06 would just be another corvette.

Just as a Cobra, without all the things that make it a cobra, would be just another mustang. Get over it.

[OE800]

the mustang was intended to be the opposite of exclusive, and its been doing it for over 40 years, have you ever noticed that?

outside of founding microsoft and having billions of dollars bill gates is a worthless nothing. thats why hes homeless. :lol:

[Sylvestre]

the mustang was intended to be the opposite of exclusive, and its been doing it for over 40 years, have you ever noticed that?

outside of founding microsoft and having billions of dollars bill gates is a worthless nothing. thats why hes homeless. :lol:

wow what an idiotic statement, comparing Bill Gates to a car with prehistoric technology.

[DarcSystems]

wow what an idiotic statement, comparing Bill Gates to a car with prehistoric technology.

:lol: Welcome to the forum. You'll do just fine here.

:wave:

[Kumacho]

The proper comparisons for a Mustang would be a Camaro. This has always been the comparison most done. Camaro almost always was a better performing car than the Mustang in any trim.

It wasn't until after the death of the Camaro in 2002 that ford came up with a Cobra that was able to compete with a Camaro even in Z28 form...

Now what will be interesting to see is what happens when the Challenger comes out and the new Camaro is on the market for it's second year. I'm pretty certain there won't be a Camaro Model that can compete with the GT500 until the second model year. But you never know, GM might surprise us.

But when you look at things that are happening in GM, there is a good possibility they are setting the stage to attack the GT500.

Historically GM doesn't make a Camaro that is quicker than the best Corevette. To do so would be fiscally insane since it would mean selling less Corvettes.

There is going to be a Vette with huge horsepower by the time the Camaro is put into production. The Camaro is slated as having the LS2 engine as an option, so that is a 400 horsepower Camaro. There has also been discussion of a model with the LS7 in it. Badda bing, Badda Boom a 500 horse Camaro.

No chance of them going above 500 horses until there is a higher horsepower Corvette. But if the do bring out the rumored Corvette SS, that opens the door for a GT500KR killing Camaro...

P.S. Before anyone states that the Camaros have not been historically quicker needs to bear in mind that the 1969 Chevrolet Camaro ZL-1 pulled 11.68 in the quarter. The quickest Mustang in 1969 was 11.8 seconds and that shouldn't even be considered a Mustang since the Shelby really was more Carol Shelby than Ford...

[Spank666]

No chance of them going above 500 horses until there is a higher horsepower Corvette. But if the do bring out the rumored Corvette SS, that opens the door for a GT500KR killing Camaro...

Well, GM could do what they've done in the past and underrate it like they did the Grand National. Even if they dont, the GNX was rated stronger than the quickest Vette of the time. They may very well rate a Camaro equal to or stronger to the Vette.

[Sylvestre]

:lol: Welcome to the forum. You'll do just fine here.

:wave:

Thanks you will be seeing a lot of me :wave:

[DarcSystems]

I look forward to your unbiased, thoughout and informative responses.

We need more people like you.

[El Jarretto]

I wonder if some people like Shelby GT-500's more than cars of equal price and that's why'd they buy them. No wait, that's just stupid. I should have gotten a Miata or cheap 3 series instead of getting a car I actually like.

[DarcSystems]

Performance is everything for a consumer. EVERYTHING. Price, doesn't matter, looks, doesn't matter, how it rides? Doesn't matter. Performance is what people look for, bottom line.

That's why everyone is out there driving Corvettes. Everyone. Because that's the only car they are allowed to like, and get by the Lancer Radar. Sure, it makes life a little tougher for everyone, what with the limited seating, trunk space, and poor offroad capabilities, but it can turn around a corner at 500mph, and since everyone takes turns with their foot to the floor, that's important. Think about how many fewer accidents we would have if everyone drove around in 200 mph cars with the ability to swerve out of the way when the drunk asshole on the other side of the road is coming at you at 200mph.

I'm gonna start a petition that everyone looking for a new car should have to buy a Corvette. It's simply a must for the average daily driver.

I can't stress this enough, and neither can Lancer. Join me, Lancer, on my quest to tell everyone else what they like. Come on buddy. Your efforts won't go unnoticed if you're with me. Divided, we are weak, together, we are strong. Lets egg mustang owners cars too, and tell them how much it upsets us that they drive mustangs. Better yet, lets steal their cars, and replace them all with Corvettes. Wouldn't that be fun? Corvette. ..that just sounds amazing. And since everyone can afford them, there's no excuse not to have one.

What? Don't like the lack of back seats? So fucking what, you don't have a say in what you like or don't like, me and Lancer will tell you what you like.

What? Don't like the looks of the vette? I better not hear that again. You DO like the looks of the vette. There is no option here, you like the looks.

What? You say you don't need track performance out of your daily driver? Like hell you don't. In America we have hairpin turns at every corner.

What? It drives like shit on the road? That's because it's meant to compete with track cars, why the hell would it matter how it drives on the road. Now shut up and buy a Corvette.

I'm game, this sounds like a really sweet idea Lancer. Who's with me? Lets convert the world to "exclusive" corvette owners.

[Sylvestre]

Performance is everything for a consumer. EVERYTHING. Price, doesn't matter, looks, doesn't matter, how it rides? Doesn't matter. Performance is what people look for, bottom line.

That's why everyone is out there driving Corvettes. Everyone. Because that's the only car they are allowed to like, and get by the Lancer Radar. Sure, it makes life a little tougher for everyone, what with the limited seating, trunk space, and poor offroad capabilities, but it can turn around a corner at 500mph, and since everyone takes turns with their foot to the floor, that's important. Think about how many fewer accidents we would have if everyone drove around in 200 mph cars with the ability to swerve out of the way when the drunk asshole on the other side of the road is coming at you at 200mph.

I'm gonna start a petition that everyone looking for a new car should have to buy a Corvette. It's simply a must for the average daily driver.

I can't stress this enough, and neither can Lancer. Join me, Lancer, on my quest to tell everyone else what they like. Come on buddy. Your efforts won't go unnoticed if you're with me. Divided, we are weak, together, we are strong. Lets egg mustang owners cars too, and tell them how much it upsets us that they drive mustangs. Better yet, lets steal their cars, and replace them all with Corvettes. Wouldn't that be fun? Corvette. ..that just sounds amazing. And since everyone can afford them, there's no excuse not to have one.

What? Don't like the lack of back seats? So fucking what, you don't have a say in what you like or don't like, me and Lancer will tell you what you like.

What? Don't like the looks of the vette? I better not hear that again. You DO like the looks of the vette. There is no option here, you like the looks.

What? You say you don't need track performance out of your daily driver? Like hell you don't. In America we have hairpin turns at every corner.

What? It drives like shit on the road? That's because it's meant to compete with track cars, why the hell would it matter how it drives on the road. Now shut up and buy a Corvette.

I'm game, this sounds like a really sweet idea Lancer. Who's with me? Lets convert the world to "exclusive" corvette owners.

:confuzed: :blahblah: :banghead: whatever, i guess better than a live axle :rolleyes:

[Don Juan]

I don't think you make a very good point at all there, and I'm probably going to ramble here so look out - I don't work and learn so that I can get enough money to buy the most exclusive and OMGLOADED car/house/clothes out there. You see most people, whilst they respect and adore supercars and hypercars like ferrari/lamborghini/maserati, wouldn't actually prefer them in a choice standoff between a random supercar and their own personal car soul mate. Most people know what their favourite all-time car is. The importance here is to distinguish a car which impresses them, from a car which takes them captive and makes them feel right at home, and their looks, behaviour and advantages all strike deep and true. If a mechanic and motor enthusiast prefers a Mustang (something he might be able to get personal with and maintain it himself, moreso true with the older ones I'd imagine?) over a murcielago (not allowed to touch it incase it voids the warranty), then that is 100% reasonable. I know that's the case for me.

I have a blessing which can only be shared by a small fraction of UK car-fans at such a young age - any other people either don't care for it, don't know or don't have the ability to because of warranty or technicality, or just don't think they can.

It's been approximately half a year since I passed my driving test - about a year and a quarter since I got my car. Since then I have quickly flourished and grown an intimate knowledge of it - I had an incentive to, because this car is my all-time favourite car, and still has plenty of life left in it. With the desire to learn and the desire to get stuck in I've already started modding the engine in a way which I deem to be traditional and sentimental. Early in the year I carried out a small, but heavily calculated and long-winded conversion to a bigger carburettor and bigger bore inlet manifold, topped off with an improved airbox and manual choke. It took a lot of preparation, effort, searching and guts (at points) to do it, but I now drive around at least 8-10% better off in power, and spurred on with the knowledge that there is so much more to come, so cheaply. It cost me over 200 pounds (apx. $380?) in total for all the parts involved, the main parts (carburettor and inlet manifold) were all original equipment (OEM) from other models, and was all put in by myself (with a friend to hold stuff steady). When it was all done and in, my mate remarked 'you should be proud of yourself', and I have been encouraged ever since, because I was only just 18 at the time. Think back to when people could play mix-and-match just as easily in their garages and sheds with their 60's and 70's GM's and Fords, and you get what I mean by sentimental. To a portion of people, that's the epitome of car enthusiasm - homebrew modifying with more than just cash and labour costs to think about, but care and craftwork. Don't get me wrong, there is still great taste and knowledge to be put across by what car and mods you choose, and with many cars it takes great expertise to mess with them, which brings me to my point. I can do lots of things easily and with good access with my 1990 VW Polo, so long as I have the advice, instruction and will to put myself on the line for potential mistakes. There is no way in hell I could do it even if I wanted to with a 2007 Polo GTI Cup edition, even with almost four times more power and much higher levels of performance. It just wouldn't matter, I could never touch anything more than the wheel, gearlever and pedals. It is largely invisible to others how much my old (by standard definition), cheap ($800), slow (80bhp/ton) and gimmickless hatchback means to me, and how it's taught me respect for cars for what they are.

In short, Bentley can keep their continental GT's, Maclaren can keep their F1's (that would admittedly be a difficult thing to say in real life :lol:), In my perfect vision I'd have a big garage full of tools and 1982-1994 VW Polo's, and the education to do pretty much anything with them, and the money to buy anything for them, and the energy to race them :)

---

Well that's gonna be a bit of hard labour to read it all through, I forgot what the topic was all about, but there you go.

http://i14.tinypic.com/4bi7ymo.gif

[DarcSystems]

wow what an idiotic statement, comparing Bill Gates to a car with prehistoric technology.
Prehistoric technology?

You mean, like....leaf springs?

Ohh, you meant the mustang. Yeah, that's old ass technology.

[EeekiE]

O to the NNNN'D IIRC

[OE800]

wow i never realized how much i need a corvette, do i need to go to the dealer or can i order them directly from lancer? ill trade all my other cars for one if i have to because i no longer like them.


wow what an idiotic statement, comparing Bill Gates to a car with prehistoric technology.

i was using it to illustrate and mock lancer's methods of reasoning, welcome to the car forum.:raiseeyeb

[L4NC3R]

Performance is everything for a consumer. EVERYTHING. Price, doesn't matter, looks, doesn't matter, how it rides? Doesn't matter. Performance is what people look for, bottom line.
... Price - It's (GT500-KR) probably going to be a $80,000 car when said and done. Looks - It looks just like any other Mustang, which is why they should've stuck with the GT or come out with something entirely new for the class they're trying to appeal to. Ride - It probably rides like shit compared to other cars in the same market (or in the same price range), good old Ford suspension you know. And like I said, there is no performance when it comes to the Mustang. You've got 500hp or 550hp, but you're barely pulling 12's at most. That's pretty shitty. Its got nothing but a supercharger, Cobra badge, and a loud paint job. That's all it is.

That's why everyone is out there driving Corvettes. Everyone. Because that's the only car they are allowed to like, and get by the Lancer Radar. Sure, it makes life a little tougher for everyone, what with the limited seating, trunk space, and poor offroad capabilities, but it can turn around a corner at 500mph, and since everyone takes turns with their foot to the floor, that's important. Think about how many fewer accidents we would have if everyone drove around in 200 mph cars with the ability to swerve out of the way when the drunk asshole on the other side of the road is coming at you at 200mph.
I'm sorry, I just realize that the Corvette has the full package - unlike the shitty GT500. It's got incredible performance, incredibly hyper looks, and a ride appropriate of its genre. That's why I like it. Same thing could be said about the Viper as well, if you're really looking to spend money. The Viper has the very same package, though is still slower in acceleration to the Corvette, but Dodge tried and I still perfer the Viper over the fucking GT500.

What I'm saying is... Ford needs to give us something new. You're interested in the GT500? Might as well buy a regular Mustang GT. Mock it up and save yourself the hardest ass rape I have ever seen from an automobile company. The Z06 was given full attention and was modified to the best possible standards (those standards being C6-R based). Chevorlet actually tuned their Z06, they just didn't throw a supercharger, Cobra badge, and paint job on it. They actually gave it professional racers and ran it around various courses to perfect it. And now here it is, kicking just about everyone's ass. It wasn't a cheap development. It was so much more than the Mustang's supercharger and paint job.

But thats just my opinion. Sorry I don't like the Mustang and its many whorish variations.

[DarcSystems]

Soooo...are you angry that people are buying that over the corvette, even though it's just a rebadged run of the mill mustang? Or are you angry because fords making money off of shmucks who like their products?

Or..

Did someone take your Corvette savings from you, and spend it all on a mustang? Kinda a personal vendetta? I'm having a problem understanding why, if you hate this car so much, you waste all this time and effort on it. I'm having even more trouble understanding WHY you hate the car. I mean, I know you're all like "wahh, it's mustang, and boo to mustangs" but you're not the one spending the money on it, you're not the one driving it, it doesn't effect you in any way what so ever that people are buying these cars. :confuzed:

Maybe you're one of those emo kids, who tries to think outside the box. If everyone likes it, you have to hate it, so you can stand out. Is it an attention thing?

Does this mean you're not gonna join me in trying to convert the planet to Corvette lovers?

[Sylvestre]

Soooo...are you angry that people are buying that over the corvette, even though it's just a rebadged run of the mill mustang? Or are you angry because fords making money off of shmucks who like their products?

Or..

Did someone take your Corvette savings from you, and spend it all on a mustang? Kinda a personal vendetta? I'm having a problem understanding why, if you hate this car so much, you waste all this time and effort on it. I'm having even more trouble understanding WHY you hate the car. I mean, I know you're all like "wahh, it's mustang, and boo to mustangs" but you're not the one spending the money on it, you're not the one driving it, it doesn't effect you in any way what so ever that people are buying these cars. :confuzed:

Maybe you're one of those emo kids, who tries to think outside the box. If everyone likes it, you have to hate it, so you can stand out. Is it an attention thing?

Does this mean you're not gonna join me in trying to convert the planet to Corvette lovers?

The problem with the mustang is that it simply doesnt have anything special about it. Yes, it has a high potential engine, but stock it is completely useless. I see stock mustang racers on the same level are civic racers, its just pathetic. If you buy the car because you like it thats fine, but racing it without any mods is pathetic because any LS1 will destroy it. Being a rice killer in a stock mustang just lowers you to their level. The car is too abundant now, you see them everyone and people go crazy over them, yet i dont understand why.

I hate the car because even a civic can out corner it.

[DarcSystems]

So you hate it because a civic can outcorner it.......................

........................................ ... .. .. .... .. . . . ... ... ..



Wait for it......

What? That makes no sense. A lot of cars can out corner it. Up until last year, civics could (and probably still can in some respect) out corner Corvettes. Do you hate corvettes too? The problem with Chevy fanboys is that they're bias, and uneducated. It's like a plague that comes with a free bowtie. I like my Fords, and I like my chevy's, and when I see a big seller, with a throaty V8, like the mustang, I see a lot of potential. And the number one thing that attracts me to the car is parts availability. The more mustangs they make, the better it is for the guys out there trying to build them. Bring it on. The aftermarket is swarming with mustang parts, and has been doing so since the 80's.

It's sad that you kids consider yourselves car enthusiests. You're just a bunch of hacks. Hacks that put forth your energy and effort to talk down about something you claim you care nothing about. If you care so little about it, why are you devoting your attention to it?

You know what I think? I think you have a hard-on for the mustang. They say that negative attention is better than no attention at all. I think people like you sell more mustangs than anything. All you do all day is spread the word about them. Nice signature by the way. ;)

[Sylvestre]

Nice signature by the way. ;)

thanks:D


You didnt get what i was trying to say. Im not a chebby fan boy though i do like me some corvettes, my favourite was the C3. I love the look, but really im more of an import fan boy.

Me personally, i know FORD has only made 3 cars that i really love, the GT40, the RS200 and the new GT.

Its a good company, i just dont like straight line speed so i will always shit on muscle cars.

[ThaiTanium22]

Okay, if a car isn't the fastest, best handling, and cheapest car in its class, then it sucks because those are the only 3 characteristics of a car that matter.

[Kumacho]

thanks:D


You didnt get what i was trying to say. Im not a chebby fan boy though i do like me some corvettes, my favourite was the C3. I love the look, but really im more of an import fan boy.

Me personally, i know FORD has only made 3 cars that i really love, the GT40, the RS200 and the new GT.

Its a good company, i just dont like straight line speed so i will always shit on muscle cars.

Don't discount all "muscle cars" as poor handling straight line only vehicles. Fourth generation Camaros do quite well on the road course and were quite dominant in their respective SCCA class. In fact, in the T2 class they dominated until the sanctioning body allowed the STi drivers to adjust their boost to any level. To me that doesn't make sense in a production class (meaning stock)...

[L4NC3R]

The problem with the mustang is that it simply doesnt have anything special about it.
Oh look! Someone who isn't a complete dumbass! Quoted for truth.

[OE800]

It's sad that you kids consider yourselves car enthusiests. You're just a bunch of hacks. Hacks that put forth your energy and effort to talk down about something you claim you care nothing about.


yeah, i think its funny how much discussion there is about mustangs around here if so many people dont like them, theres lots of cars that people dont like and the mustang seems to be the only one that has a constant flow of kids talking trash about it and devoting their sigs to it, how many of you kids have ever owned or even driven or a V8 mustang? or a car at all? my guess is that the people who hate mustangs because civics outcorner them and corvettes out everything them are 16 year old kids who dont even have a licsense and are internet bench racers talking out their asses.

the mustang exsists because people like and buy them, get over it, thats life. if your on a crusaid to stop people from likeing mustangs, then you might as well kill your self now and save yourself the trouble because no matter how many 16 year olds trash talk them on EBW forum people are still going to buy them and love them, i really dont see how this is such an ongoing and controversial subject.

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/5055/cars21nh6.jpg
omg look how gay that car is! a viper can totally smoke it!! an S2000 can ass rape it threw a slalom, and a dodge ram has a better towing capacity, and a geo metro gets better gas milage! I HATE MUSTANGS SO MUCH!:ahhh: stfu already nerds, go outside and work on a real car or play baseball or something.


Me personally, i know FORD has only made 3 cars that i really love, the GT40, the RS200 and the new GT.


i think you would like the '65 falcon monte carlos too.

[clutch-monkey]

play baseball or something.

fuck that, baseball is almost as boring as cricket.

[OE800]

fuck that, baseball is almost as boring as cricket.

at least they would get their asses off the computer and stop thinking about mustangs for a few hours, god damn.

oh yeah clutch, you got any oval window beetles laying around down there? i need one and would be willing to pay shipping :D

[clutch-monkey]

at least they would get their asses off the computer and stop thinking about mustangs for a few hours, god damn.
i dunno man, if i was playing a sport that boring i'd probably start thinking about mustangs and corvettes, vtec and hp/l and whatever else to pass the time :ahhh:

[yamahadrummer]

how many of you kids have ever owned or even driven or a V8 mustang?




http://photos-562.ak.facebook.com/ip002/v65/223/7/544640497/n544640497_38562_6301.jpg

me!:bigwink: i guess that means i have a say in this conversation?

play baseball or something.
fuck baseball. im fat.

[OE800]

im diggin the polished cobra 5-spokes on the black.

uhh, i mean... a kia rio has a tighter turning radias so you should have got one of those instead.:dunce:

[yamahadrummer]

damn. guess i will have to go looking for a trade in, how much those rio's runnin for these days? lol

i just got back from camping out in ravenna, nebraska (you probably dont know where that is, its in the middle of fucking nowhere) but yea, my stang really liked those country roads. I dont think the nebraska state patrol has ever touched those roads. (yes i was safe, im not a dumbass)

[OE800]

my stang really liked those country roads. I dont think the nebraska state patrol has ever touched those roads. (yes i was safe, im not a dumbass)

your lucky, we dont have many cool roads around here.

[yamahadrummer]

yea i know, im from detroit. when i go up there to visit my sister (she lives in clarkston) it always seems like you all speed like crazy. she drives a 01 venture full of kids and shes doin like 90mph. im like...wtf slow down, and she laughs. its fuckin scary.


but yea, iguess thats one of the payoffs of living in a state made up of corn fields and sandhills.

[Spank666]

[QUOTE=yamahadrummer;3347215]yea i know, im from detroit. when i go up there to visit my sister (she lives in clarkston) it always seems like you all speed like crazy. she drives a 01 venture full of kids and shes doin like 90mph. im like...wtf slow down, and she laughs. its fuckin scary./QUOTE]

Thats why I like driving in Detroit. I fit right in.

[zigamabob]

Oh look! Someone who isn't a complete dumbass! Quoted for truth.

Im just going to quote this because Darc pretty much summed up who you are.

First you like to pull random figures like 100,000 GT500s and that it can barely pull 12s. The GT500 will run what a C6 runs on a quarter. I will admit I was disapointed with how heavy it was and the fact that a 400hp car can keep up/beat it on the quarter but hey Ford baffles me sometimes.

Second, you compare the everyday mustang to a vette...which the vette is way out of its price range. You say it sucks because the vette was built with performance in mind. Which I admit the z06 is probably the cheapest, sportscar you can buy for the performance. But what if I dont have 70,000 to blow on a Z06, I guess I shouldnt buy a car at all right?

It is very obvious that people who hate one specific car are just ignorant and have nothing better to do other than...hate on some car. Well I guess the C5 and C6 are shitty cars because buying my mustang and hooking it up cost me less than 15,000 and I can spank a C5 or C6 then no one should be buying those vettes because there is nothing special about it.

How about people buy GT500s because they like the sound, feel, and look of them. And they dont really care that a Z06 is faster, they just like THEIR car. The 350Z and Q35 are in the same price range as a new Mustang GT, but the Mustang will whoop it all day I guess no one should be buying those cars either...your way of thinking is amazing.

[Sylvestre]

The 350Z and Q35 are in the same price range as a new Mustang GT, but the Mustang will whoop it all day I guess no one should be buying those cars either...your way of thinking is amazing.


Except both those cars can drive circles around a mustang

[DarcSystems]

Except both those cars can drive circles around a mustang

Which circle? I don't take too many circles on my drive to work, but I wanna make sure I don't come across that one that those cars will be driving around.

[OE800]

Oh look! Someone who isn't a complete dumbass! Quoted for truth.

what kind of cars are we allowed to like and not be deemed a complete dumbass? anything but a mustang?:confused:

[Sylvestre]

Which circle? I don't take too many circles on my drive to work, but I wanna make sure I don't come across that one that those cars will be driving around.

the same area where you find those drag strips that the mustang raps the 350z in on the road.

[DarcSystems]

I tell ya, one of the bigger focus's of my mustang build was my suspension. Low and stiff. My car turns great. I'm not out on the road hammering the corners at 150mph. I've seen people who claim their cars can, and usually they're being scraped off of the nearest tree. That's great. I drive my cars and have fun in them. They're not go carts, I don't take them to the race track every night. Mustangs (much like...oh, any car really) are fine for highway driving, city driving, rush hour traffic, traffic jams, driving up hills, driving down hills, parking in parking spots, parking on the side of the road, parallel parking, sitting at red lights, going at green lights, turning left, turning right, going around a rotary, driving in reverse, and even pulling into your garage. And the kicker is, they have enough power to get out of their own way, enough weight to be a nice comfy ride, and enough strength to withstand a pretty good hit. Not everyone is looking for a race car. Get it through your thick head. No one gives a fuck about how fast, or tight a car can turn. The speed limits (you know, posted speeds for safe travel of all vehicles on a particular stretch of road) don't allow us to unlock the full potential of any of our cars anyway, and only reckless idiots who you see in the paper today, tomorrow, a year down the road, are the ones out there thinking they're above all that. That's true for domestic and import drivers.

Kids like you are what make me want to increase the age for getting a license so badly. It's kinda unfair to the responsible ones out there.

[Kumacho]

How about people buy GT500s because they like the sound, feel, and look of them. And they dont really care that a Z06 is faster, they just like THEIR car. The 350Z and Q35 are in the same price range as a new Mustang GT, but the Mustang will whoop it all day I guess no one should be buying those cars either...your way of thinking is amazing.

I'm not going to bash the Mustang. I happen to like the GT500 but hate the fact that Ford dealerships charge an rather large premium on top of MSRP for them.

But I have to ask; where are you saying a Mustang GT will whoop a 350Z? If you mean on the drag strip, then I completely understand. If you mean anywhere else where corners are involved... You are mistaken or misinformed.

Once again somebody is comparing apples to oranges. Right now the Mustang is the best modern muscle car out there. However, there really isn't anything to compare it with right now. I would like to revisit this conversation in 2008 when the Challenger and Camaro are released...

[L4NC3R]

Oh yeah... this reminds me... my friend's stock Jetta beat the shit out of a '98 Mustang GT. lmao. Oh yeah, everyone stand back! The Mustang is obviously the best performing car ever.

[OE800]

Oh yeah... this reminds me... my friend's stock Jetta beat the shit out of a '98 Mustang GT. lmao. Oh yeah, everyone stand back! The Mustang is obviously the best performing car ever.

what kinda jetta was it?

[(_8(I)]

what kinda jetta was it?

the same kind as that "stock" neon that beat the "GT 500"

[L4NC3R]

VR6 Jetta.

[El Jarretto]

One time I beat the fuck out of a GT500 with my bone stock 57hp Caddy and 5 mexicans in the back...I swear to god everytime I see a mexican they're staring at my truck.

[zigamabob]

Oh yeah... this reminds me... my friend's stock Jetta beat the shit out of a '98 Mustang GT. lmao. Oh yeah, everyone stand back! The Mustang is obviously the best performing car ever.

Well since no one said mustangs are the best performing cars, I guess you think so. I doubt that ever happened since it seems like your full of crap..but it is possible. I have a 400rwhp Mustang and I lost to a near stock cobalt SS supercharged. Im on stock tires burned first and second, missed third badly, and still managed to catch up where he beat me by a bumper. At the same time I beat a C6 because I hooked it right and took him off the line....its still all about the driver.

Even if this Jetta did beat a 98 Mustang GT it was probably because the driver royally screwed up, or he wasnt racing. Considering I beat a modded VR6 when I was stock, twice in a row, so it was no fluke. BTW it was a GTI VR6 which is quicker than a Jetta VR6...so anyway..what was your point for that post?

I'm not going to bash the Mustang. I happen to like the GT500 but hate the fact that Ford dealerships charge an rather large premium on top of MSRP for them.

But I have to ask; where are you saying a Mustang GT will whoop a 350Z? If you mean on the drag strip, then I completely understand. If you mean anywhere else where corners are involved... You are mistaken or misinformed.

Once again somebody is comparing apples to oranges. Right now the Mustang is the best modern muscle car out there. However, there really isn't anything to compare it with right now. I would like to revisit this conversation in 2008 when the Challenger and Camaro are released...

No, I never meant that, I forget to mention the straight line thing since its the only racing I do. Yes a 350z and so will a whole lot of cars beat out a Mustang GT in the corners, but that is only going to happen at a track. Out on the highway its more of who has more balls or has a deathwish.

And I love the 02 camaro, and pretty much any other camaro, I just love the mustang more. I know stock its quicker, and it takes less mods to get it stupid fast..but I didnt really care..I like mustangs.( I think I just went against Lancer's religion)

[Meio]

Meio,

You truly are an idiot. You flame American machinery at every corner and I for one am tired of you plastering you obviously bigoted views in any and every thread remotely relating to American Vehicles. We get it already; you don't like the way Americans build their cars. Enough is enough already... I've become quite impressed by the change in civility by another "shit stirrer" on these boards. Nicely done by the way L4nc3r, how about you give Meio a lesson or two in civility now?

I think you need to take your own advice.

If you make derogatory comments expect responses like this. If you make ignorant and uninformed comments based on only your small world perception I will be calling you out on your foolishness.

I was pointing out that for a tuned coupe the KR is a heavy car. If you want to see that as derogatory and a statement against the American automobile industry, I would say, "Get over yourself!"

Here is why I think the Mustang is heavy:

BMW 318i M Sport Touring
http://www.bmw.co.uk/bmwuk/pricesandspecifications_technical_specs/0,,1156_149589300__bs-Mw%3D%3D%40bb-M1RP%40bm-WlQ0Qw%3D%3D,00.html
1535kg

Volvo V50 T5
http://www.volvocars.co.uk/models/v50/techSpec.htm
1412kg

Subaru Legacy Sports Tourer 3.0R Spec B
http://www.subaru.co.uk/Subaru_co_uk/ViewMenu.qed?menuid=M0M7M5
1570kg

To save you all the time looking at these pages I will point out that they are all estates, or station wagons if you prefer, and they are all lighter than this 'tuned' 'coupe'. How is it bigoted to point this out?

If you are really a scientist, start acting like one. So far you have made it very obvious that you can't possibly be a scientist as one of the most important parts of being involved in science is objectivity. You have made it more than evident that you have no objectivity in this matter and therefore you views must be discounted as tainted and invalid.

Don't be so naive. The drive for objectivity can never be absolute, thus many scientists just don't bother. I am not one of them, but I do accound for subjectivity and don't just pretend it's not there.
I will however ask you to look closely at the numbers above and then tell me I was incorrect to state that the GT500-KR is heavy.
Can you do this rationally without launching into personal attacks and histrionics?

[Kumacho]

Where have you been for the past few years? As the yanks insist on bleating on, they have got a car with decent all round performance. The Z06 can corner. All your fillings might end up getting rattled out in the process and you might as well be sitting in a 1980s Toyota when it's not going anywhere, but when it does go somewhere it can do so quickly and relatively cheaply.

Costs twice what the Mustang costs admittedly, but it costs less than a Ferrari or Porsche of similar performance.

All my comments about your attitude stemmed from this comment. It is painfully biased and the conclusion you stated is obtuse...

The problem is not that you spoke badly of the Mustang. The problem is that in every thread that comes up about American automotive technology, you can be expected to be there saying something derogatory.

The Z06 is a world class sports car and you compare it to a 1980's Toyota. You exagerate the stiffness of the suspension and infer it is overpriced. None of the above are anywhere close to factual.

Time after time you have clearly demonstrated your disgust for anything American made. My point to you is "we get it". You hate all US manufactured vehicles. You will not disuade anyone by constantly spouting ridiculous rehtoric and (if I may speak for most people) you actually turn people away from your point of view.

[Danny Lee]

Hold on one moment.

Since when was rock-hard suspension an american invention? I mean, why are you so easily offended that something bad is said about the corvette? Even when sided just as equally with POSITIVE observations (which you did not highlight), all you can do is single stuff out and take it as some sort of auto-racism?

I'm not saying that I agree with what meio said which you oppose (personally I think the guy's a soppy wet flannel if hard suspension ruins it for him), but you're such a whinging git for going off on one over this sort of thing, from one member, who was giving it about 5% of anti-US treatment. Jap and Euro cars aren't made for US roads. So is everyone suddenly going to stop attacking imports...?

Just consider how stupid it is to say this:

"Your scorn and prejudice for everything US built is evident and we get it. You disdain anything US built and we don't need to hear about it in every single post."

In response to this:

"As the yanks insist on bleating on, they have got a car with decent all round performance. The Z06 can corner. All your fillings might end up getting rattled out in the process and you might as well be sitting in a 1980s Toyota when it's not going anywhere, but when it does go somewhere it can do so quickly and relatively cheaply."

It starts with a little jibe :ohnoes:, it continues with a positive statement about the corvette :squint:, Followed by a criticism :ahhh:, rounded up with a final, positive and justifying summary :idea:.

So where do you get off coming to a conclusion that everything meio said and has ever said, is purely down to hatred of the US no matter what? I can guarantee that if an all-american company came out a well-balanced, quick and perky car of a reasonable but realistic price, nobody, not even Meio would criticise it just because it's american. In fact, as a collective, we're all more likely going to go 'oh fuck, thank piss that the US has made a fast car which we would actually prefer over an Evo/WRX/VR6 for once :motz_6:'. For auto-racism to start, it generally requires that a certain province makes shit, dire cars over and over again for an extended period of time, such as korea. It's slowly turning around for everyone outside of the US, possibly single-handedly due to the C6. Before the most recent gen of corvette, you'd not see an american car on the Sports class list alongside 911's, R34's, etc.

Does not your shit stink too? Everyone's does.

[Spank666]

I can guarantee that if an all-american company came out a well-balanced, quick and perky car of a reasonable but realistic price, nobody, not even Meio would criticise it just because it's american.

Kind of like the Dodge SRT-4, Chevy Cobalt SS, and Saturn Ion Redline/Pontiac Solstice GXP?

[Vettribution87]

Before the most recent gen of corvette, you'd not see an american car on the Sports class list alongside 911's, R34's, etc.
Sports class list? :err:
Could you elaborate on this?
It seems rather dubious that no American car (inc earlier Vettes) did not make this list until the C6 Corvette came on the scene.

And whose R34 is on that list? Nissan's or Volkswagen's.

[OE800]

meio does hate american cars, he makes it pretty clear. maybe you never really thought about the stuff he says in other threads, if you look around at his posting in the car forum its hard to find a post that isnt trying to persuade someone into not liking an american car. sometimes he does tone it down, but not usually.

[EeekiE]

Kind of like the Dodge SRT-4, Chevy Cobalt SS, and Saturn Ion Redline/Pontiac Solstice GXP?

None of thse cars sell on the international market do they? :confuzed:

As for Meio, I can't see how it's any different to guys attacking anything foreign to America in little jibes. Which you get everywhere, although not here so much anymore. Click any video on Streetfire, and see how many posts it takes to turn into 'USA versus Other' cars :lol: It can be a video about a brown shoe in a shopping basket and within 4 pages it's Civic/Supra vs Mustang/Corvette :ahhh: :lol:

Yes it's annoying, but both sides seem to get it equally.

[DarcSystems]

None of thse cars sell on the international market do they? :confuzed:

As for Meio, I can't see how it's any different to guys attacking anything foreign to America in little jibes. Which you get everywhere, although not here so much anymore. Click any video on Streetfire, and see how many posts it takes to turn into 'USA versus Other' cars :lol: It can be a video about a brown shoe in a shopping basket and within 4 pages it's Civic/Supra vs Mustang/Corvette :ahhh: :lol:

Yes it's annoying, but both sides seem to get it equally.

Yes, there is bickering, but you brits have a show devoted to hating on American cars (Top Gear) :)

[EeekiE]

No we don't! (Don't search 'Monkey dust The Diary of Anne Frank', 'Monkey dust The Crusades' or 'Monkey dust series3 episode 6 part1' on YouTube)

But seriously that statement is as qualified as saying all Americans hate foreign cars and people. It's just a generalization.

And LOL as for having a show dedicated to hating Americans. What about how every Hollywood film that has the evil dude speaking in strong British accent? :lol: Darth Vader even goes from American kid to evil British emperor! Gias Baltar in Battlestar. Hannibal. Jumanji. Tron? Even in the new film 300, based on old European battles, there is one guy on the council that speaks in English accent, and what do you know, he turns out to be a bad'en! :lol: It's hillarious, but a shame as it really brings a serious film down for me now! So maybe it's that we're just not quite as subtle?

[DarcSystems]

I've always laughed about every foreign character speaking in a british accent. I think it's because it's the easiest to mimic, and easiest to understand/relate to. Frankly, half the people over here, who have foreign accents, I don't understand most of the time, so having them mimicked in a movie would not make a box office hit I assure you. :)


Could you imagine all of 300 being in greek accents? I would walk out.

[EeekiE]

Dunno it could have worked through sheer originality.
It has some fantastic fight scenes, and very good camera work with a good soundtrack. The only thing that let it down for me was the scripting and cheesy dialog. That will stop it from ever going into my classics folder, of which 8 are American.
I much prefer the scripting and acting in things like Band of Brothers where people make mistakes and aren't perfect, than cheese fests like 300 with it's Batman lines at points.
That and the fact whenever an enemy was knocked down by a shield he just lay there waiting to be stabbed like something out of PowerRangers. :lol: Just utterly unconvincing uninspired and a film that will be forgotten about in a few years. Shame.

[Meio]

Remember that some of the cheesiest lines are actual quotes from history.

When asked to surrender their arms Leonidas is supposed to have said, "Μολών Λαβέ" or 'Come and get them'.

Despite their extremely disproportionate numbers, Greek morale was high. Herodotus writes that when Dienekes, a Spartan soldier, was informed that Persian arrows would be so numerous as "to blot out the sun", he remarked with characteristically laconic prose, "So much the better, we shall fight in the shade." (Taken by the Greek 20th Armored Division as their motto).
Wikipedia


I wouldn't mind greek accents, having lots of greek mates, but I would prefer Greek langauge with subs. Maybe I'll find some way of watching The 300 Spartans, see what that's like.


Anyway, back onto cars:

Because I see urbanites driving 'bad ass' trucks and trying to justify it as necessary for the road conditions and such as hilarious?
Because I see many cars that are touted as sports or coupes that weigh 2 tonnes (stand up Mercedes), and tuning companies that simply increase the output of the engine without touching the rest of the car as simply appealing to rich idiots who want to brag down the golf course about how big their unit is?
Because I see that the US motor industry has backed itself into a corner and no longer have any internationally recognised luxury output and have to compete with all other global car manufacturers from a mid-range to budget position, just as Rover tried to do?
Because I think that Porsches are a bad engineering solution propped up by the purchases of idiots and are still purchased by brand loving middle managers with no imagination?
Because I think that Ferrari are jumped up, over priced Fiats, living on past glories and propped up by the purchases of (rich) Tifosi who can't see past the bonnet badge and the personalised leather trim?
Because I believe that the C6 Z06 involves taking a mediocre sports car and making it out perform a similar Ferrari for a budget, and it shows:

http://z.about.com/d/cars/1/0/e/O/sp_06z06_int.jpg
http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//media/roadtests/firstdrive/2002/02.ferrari.575maranello/02.ferrari.575maranello.int.500.jpg

But hey, who wants all that dead cow anyway?

Because I believe that the Mustang is a fat heavy lump of iron, made exclusively for the US market, where apparently physics works differently and heavy cars go faster even in a straight line?

Because of all this I am anti American?

OK

[EeekiE]

The lines from 300 you mentioned didn't bother me. The one that springs to mind was: "They look thirsty!" "Then lets give them something to DRINK!" And just the typical screaming of someones name followed by 'Noooooo' when someone dies, along with the pantomime side story of the council. And it's not just the lines themselves, they're said like a kid with a plastic sword thinking he's a hero, not by a guy knowing he's going to die and really trying to bump morale. It's just unconvincing.

If someone is in trouble, what fucking use does repeatedly screaming their name do? I've never got that. I just can't relate to it because I can't see any real person reacting and responding in that way. it's too impure with Hollywood clichés to ever stand out as truely amazing.

But back on topic, twisting a hate of certain cars into racist anti-country thing is weak.

[Meio]

The lines from 300 you mentioned didn't bother me. The one that springs to mind was: "They look thirsty!" "Then lets give them something to DRINK!"

The original attributed quote was far cooler and Miller should have used it instead.

Another quote from Wikipedia:
...they didn't just kill their heralds, as the Athenians did, but threw them into a well, answering their demand for 'earth and water' with the retort "Dig it out for yourselves"

[EeekiE]

Yeah I was quoting the bit where they push the remaining first wave into the sea off the cliff.
Don't get me wrong the real story and event itself is brilliant, I just don't think they did it justice with the film, even though the combat was top notch.

[Meio]

Yeah I was quoting the bit where they push the remaining first wave into the sea off the cliff.
Don't get me wrong the real story and event itself is brilliant, I just don't think they did it justice with the film, even though the combat was top notch.

Oh yeah, that bit... you wouldn't think I'd seen the film twice would you :$

The whole point was the fighting... if it had been 3 lines of dialogue and the rest rucking most people would have said how shit it was...

[EeekiE]

Yeah. I sent a mate the best fighting clip and told him he's now pretty much seen the film.

I'd only watched A Clockwork Orange for the first time last night, and One Flew Over the Cookoos Nest the night before. ACO went into classics folder, but OFOTCN missed out because although it's a brilliant film it didn't really stun me in any way.

R.I.P. this thread :lol:

[Danny Lee]

A whole show devoted to hating on american cars?

I now echo the statement 'get over yourselves'.

It's a show with 3 reviewers of a varied 'stance' on global car manufacturing. One of them is admittedly cynical towards american cars (but proves himself wrong occasionally), another bums cadillacs and pontiacs, and another has his own Shelby GT350 IIRC.

How you can say that top gear's sole purpose in life is to hate America is beyond me, do you think they love every korean and malaysian product out there? The US is only one of MANY countries which make cars. You have to consider France, Spain, Britain, Italy, Germany, Sweden, Japan, etc. Just think for one moment that American market cars comprise of no more than maybe 10% of the world's production? I don't get where patriotism can get involved where cars are concerned. Rover was shit and deserved to go under, TVR was an unfortunate victim, Caterham, Ariel and Westfield are only big enough to be but a twinkle in our eyes and Vauxhall rarely brings out anything worth more than 5 seconds of our time. I guess my point is that I can't shake the feeling that domestic pride accounts for more sales than quality, and that's backed up by people always assuming it's all about the US.

[clutch-monkey]

A whole show devoted to hating on american cars?

I now echo the statement 'get over yourselves'.

It's a show with 3 reviewers of a varied 'stance' on global car manufacturing. One of them is cynical towards american cars (and proves himself wrong occasionally), another bums cadillacs and pontiacs, and another has his own Shelby GT350 IIRC.

hammond also has a charger R/T i seem to recall. Plus, they like the monaro, which is a muscle car, and liked the Z06, it seems that everytime i hear an american saying how they thought it was rubbish, they consider ANY criticism unfair and damning.

[Danny Lee]

That's pretty much the core of what I was trying to say.

Every car has their ups and downs, EVEN american cars :ahhh:

[EeekiE]

If anything Top Gear is anti-French. And rightly so :lol:

[Meio]

it seems that everytime i hear an american saying how they thought it was rubbish, they consider ANY criticism unfair and damning.

Indeed, Top Gear is a review show... listen to what they have to say about British cars. TVRs fall to bits. Ariels are made by bearded men in a shed and are destined never to build anything else... and so on:

Look:

Jeremy Clarkson: [about TVR Tuscan 2] It's supposed to be easier to live with, and easier to drive... so has it worked?
[whilst driving]
Jeremy Clarkson: Ohh... Oh, my God. No... no... no, no, no. No. No. No, it hasn't.

Jeremy Clarkson: [about TVR Tuscan 2] You see, my wife loves this car. She loves the noise and the vibrations and the sense of danger and the way that when you over-rev it, the whole dash lights up like a baboon's backside. Richard Hammond on the other hand, he pretty much hates it. He says its too difficult and too complicated and that all the stitching in here looks like the kind of stitching you find when someone's tried to mend their own shoes.

Jeremy Clarkson: [peering into the engine bay on the Lotus Exige] To get an idea of just how spartan this thing is, you just have to look through the rear window. Back there you've got chicken wire, bakofoil and tupperware. It's kind of like peering into one of your grannies' old kitchen cabinets.

[on the McLaren F1]
Jeremy: You know that bit in Dr. Strangelove, when Peter Sellers is astride the nuclear missile? That's what it's like... You don't know where you're going, you're in no real control, you just know the journey's going to end very soon, and very badly!

[on the Prodrive P2]
Jeremy: You also get a funny little noise from the waste gate when you take your foot off the accelerator... [he slows down and we hear the noise] It sounds like squirrels are being pushed into the engine... that's what this is, it's a squirrel mincer.

Jeremy: (about a Ford Mustang going head-to-head against a Lotus Exige S) "It's got a 4.6 litre 300bhp V8 at the front, rear-wheel drive at the back, and a Stig in the middle."

Jeremy: (about the Exige S, a few seconds later)"And he's lined up alongside a plastic car that was made by some Norfolk turnip farmers, which is being driven by a fat bloke with a dicky hip."

James: [On his Bentley T2] I've got furniture that handles better than this thing!

James: The problem with the Morgan is it's just a car they forgot to stop making in the forties.

Richard: [On the Noble] Oh, look! Jeremy's brought a plastic car!

Richard: If I was in a TVR, now, the indicators would be on the ceiling and the switches would be made of kryptonite and the doors would open inwards on a dodecahedral hinge. But no! If I pull up in a Noble, the door is just a door, that opens sort of... doorishly!

Richard: Wow! A TVR band! So presumably they play really loud, really fast and then burst into flames!

[Kumacho]

Because I believe that the C6 Z06 involves taking a mediocre sports car and making it out perform a similar Ferrari for a budget, and it shows:

http://z.about.com/d/cars/1/0/e/O/sp_06z06_int.jpg
http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//media/roadtests/firstdrive/2002/02.ferrari.575maranello/02.ferrari.575maranello.int.500.jpg

But hey, who wants all that dead cow anyway?

So let me see if I understand... The Z06 is mediocre because it doesn't have an interior like that of a car that costs three and a half times as much?

What is wrong with making a car that can out perform a "similar Ferrari" and make it cost less? Isn't that producing cars that perform really well and can be owned by people who do not fall into the category of "rich bastards with nothing better to do with their monies".

First you compare it to a 1980 Toyota and then you compare it with a car that costs twice as much... How can either of these be justified as comparisons?

On the GT500KR; yes it is too heavy and why Ford is so afraid to dump the Live axle in favor of a IRS is beyond me. I can't find any definitive information on the Challenger drive train, but the Camaro will have a IRS.

But again, these cars are built for US car owners and are based on where/when they will be driven. On smooth straight highways a heavier car has the advantage of a more compliant ride. When you pass or are passed by one of our 18 wheelers (lory to you) they remain firmly planted. Where as a lighter car is buffeted and dances around.

There are reasons why they build them the way they do...

I am disappointed in the GT500 and even more disappointed that Ford is allowing their dealerships to add enough to the price to place it in the same retail category as a Z06.

[Meio]

So let me see if I understand... The Z06 is mediocre because it doesn't have an interior like that of a car that costs three and a half times as much?

Yep, it's called 'built down to a budget'. If it were built up to a spec don't you think they could have done somthing nicer over the stock C6 interior? Even strip it out and make it look more purposeful?

What is wrong with making a car that can out perform a "similar Ferrari" and make it cost less? Isn't that producing cars that perform really well and can be owned by people who do not fall into the category of "rich bastards with nothing better to do with their monies".

Indeed and that's why I respect it and other giant killing cars (you've heard me bang on about the Ultima GTR and Caparo T1 surely?), though I do think that they should look at the suspension set-up as all the reviews say that it's a bit rough... fine for the track, but how many will see a real circuit?

First you compare it to a 1980 Toyota and then you compare it with a car that costs twice as much... How can either of these be justified as comparisons?

Simply highlighting the differences between similarly layed out cars with similar performance. Another £100k buys you more cow. I also pointed out that US car manufacturers seem to have given up competing in terms of luxury with European marques, so this result is hardly surprising. But, to those who care about such things, it is a telling difference.

On the GT500KR; yes it is too heavy and why Ford is so afraid to dump the Live axle in favor of a IRS is beyond me. I can't find any definitive information on the Challenger drive train, but the Camaro will have a IRS.

So why did you jump on me for pointing out the weight and suggesting that Sheby should have attempted to lose some of it?

But again, these cars are built for US car owners and are based on where/when they will be driven. On smooth straight highways a heavier car has the advantage of a more compliant ride. When you pass or are passed by one of our 18 wheelers (lory to you) they remain firmly planted. Where as a lighter car is buffeted and dances around.

So why were you banging on about the need for hard suspension with respect to the Z06 if you need compliant suspension. Being planted on the road can be achieved in other ways other than weight. How tall your vehicle is probably has the most bearing on buffeting, just look at the way lorries have real problems if there is serious cross wind on the motorway (highway or freeway to you), and how much do they weigh?

There are reasons why they build them the way they do...

Because they can get away with it?

I am disappointed in the GT500 and even more disappointed that Ford is allowing their dealerships to add enough to the price to place it in the same retail category as a Z06.

Because they can get away with it? Why is that?

[Kumacho]

Meio,

I think you are confusing me with somebody else. As earlier stated, I only took exception to your opinion that the Z06 has a harsh suspension. I have driven the new Z06 and it's suspension is more compliant than the one on my 350Z.

I never have said that you were wrong regarding anything pertaining to the GT500.

What has bothered me since the very beginning of this thread is people comparing apples and oranges. Comparing a "Muscle car" to a sports car is ludicrous. Likewise comparing the interior of a $250,000.00 to that of a $ 70,000.00 car is equally skewed.

I'm not sure where you arrived at your opinion that the suspension on the Z06 was harsh enough to remove dental work. My guess would be Jeremy Clarkson had something to do with it... However, there is no fact to it. I find Jeremy to be a constant contradiction. In a 2003 Top Gear episode Jeremy lambasted the 350Z and the same year Top Gear magazine placed it in the top ten cars for the year?

[EeekiE]

From what I absorbed Meio said the Z06 is called a cheaper alternative to that Ferrari it was in competition with as far as numbers go, but it shows (via interior pictures). He wasn't saying they were comparable as all round cars, I thought that was his whole point. It was designed to compete with a Ferrari, but in reality, it doesn't, thus being a cheap sports-car workhorse, and not the holy grail as it's OFTEN portrayed.

Atleast that's what my warped mind made of it. It's a bloody great car for the money, but it IS worth it's money. -So really it's not a "surpisingly cheap" alternative to anything (which it's often touted as).
But like I've said before, I think it's a superb car in its own right, it's definitely heading in the right direction, and at the moment seems to stand proudly in a class of its own which I hope more American manufacturers try to enter.

[Meio]

The Z06 is better than it's performance on the strip.

I hope the next evolution of the corvette strips some more weight off the Z06's 1400kgs rather than adding power, maybe then they can put some springs in there that don't perform unwanted dental surgery while improving performance.

Either you just don't get it or you don't want to get it...

You are talking about American cars build for American roads. Not American cars built for UK roads. Just like Germans build cars to suit their roads, American manufacturers build cars to suit the roads in the US.

<Snip stuff about suspension>

On British roads lighter with less power is what is needed. However, in your small mind you seem to think that all roads are like the ones in the UK and thus all cars MUST be built to the same specs as British cars. If they aren’t they are pure crap.

<Snip personal attack>



Meio,

I think you are confusing me with somebody else. As earlier stated, I only took exception to your opinion that the Z06 has a harsh suspension. I have driven the new Z06 and it's suspension is more compliant than the one on my 350Z.

I wasn't confusing you with anybody. As well as taking exception to comments about reportedly rough suspension, you also took exception to my implication that "American cars" (note not the Z06 specifically in your response) could do with losing some weight over gaining ever more power.

I never have said that you were wrong regarding anything pertaining to the GT500.

Is the GT500 not an American car?

What has bothered me since the very beginning of this thread is people comparing apples and oranges. Comparing a "Muscle car" to a sports car is ludicrous. Likewise comparing the interior of a $250,000.00 to that of a $ 70,000.00 car is equally skewed.

Well if it wasn't for all the jumping in, my initial point was that a 'tuned' car with the audacity to refer to itself as 'King of the Road' weighs more than a Volvo estate and, as far as I can tell has only had the output of the engine uprated. You probably took umbrage at my suggestion that if Mr Shelby isn't going to touch the chassis on his jobs he'd do better to go back to his roots and import a decent light chassis from a British manufacturer.

I'm not sure where you arrived at your opinion that the suspension on the Z06 was harsh enough to remove dental work. My guess would be Jeremy Clarkson had something to do with it... However, there is no fact to it. I find Jeremy to be a constant contradiction. In a 2003 Top Gear episode Jeremy lambasted the 350Z and the same year Top Gear magazine placed it in the top ten cars for the year?

Probably a sense of humor thing, and while he writes the script for Top Gear the TV show, he has little to do with the magazine from what I can gather, but you're right I probably did my impression of the Z06s ride from watching Top Gear.

Thanks Eeekie, good points as always.

[Kumacho]

From what I absorbed Meio said the Z06 is called a cheaper alternative to that Ferrari it was in competition with as far as numbers go, but it shows (via interior pictures). He wasn't saying they were comparable as all round cars, I thought that was his whole point. It was designed to compete with a Ferrari, but in reality, it doesn't, thus being a cheap sports-car workhorse, and not the holy grail as it's OFTEN portrayed.

Atleast that's what my warped mind made of it. It's a bloody great car for the money, but it IS worth it's money. -So really it's not a "surpisingly cheap" alternative to anything (which it's often touted as).
But like I've said before, I think it's a superb car in its own right, it's definitely heading in the right direction, and at the moment seems to stand proudly in a class of its own which I hope more American manufacturers try to enter.

The problem is in order to compete with a $250,000.00 Ferrari completely it would have to be hand made with a production limited to perhaps 2,000 units a year. With hand stitched leathear of the highest quality and exotic materials.

But why do that when it would only drive the price into the same price range as the exotics it is trying to become a less expensive alternative for?

It is competition for the exotics. Just the competition is where (at least in my mind) it counts... Performance.

[Danny Lee]

And you can get equal/superior performance to a Z06 with a Westfield kit you can pretty much build in your shed for less than a corvette. All you have to sacrifice is......

Do you see where this is heading?

[Meio]

The problem is in order to compete with a $250,000.00 Ferrari completely it would have to be hand made with a production limited to perhaps 2,000 units a year. With hand stitched leathear of the highest quality and exotic materials.

But why do that when it would only drive the price into the same price range as the exotics it is trying to become a less expensive alternative for?

It is competition for the exotics. Just the competition is where (at least in my mind) it counts... Performance.

Indeed although you might say that that is the only area GM is capable of competing in?

As for this 'King of the Road' waste of time, seeing as it appears to be a stock Mustang with a slightly tweaked engine it is the opposite of the Z06 in that it doesn't represent value for money at all. From what I understand a base Mustang is like $25k (look on UK websites what £14k will get you), you could tweak the engine yourself for a few grand tops and paint it a shiny colour for a grand or so. How much do these KR whatsits go for?

For me if you want to see tuners with passion get thee to Brabus or if you're not dead rich and want an American car Roush. Looks to me like Carroll Shelby is living on past glories like John Cooper Works. The Z06 is a good effort too... wonder if they can do it again?

[L4NC3R]

The Z06 has gotten progressively better from a bar set pretty high. The last C5 Z06 was awesome... just pure attention to the performance.

The car performed above and beyond what most people gave it credit for - and still, even today I still think people aren't giving it due respect. I mean with a 100hp bump, and more refined tuning discovered and researched through the development of their fucking race cars, it continually proves itself - timing in a Nurburgring record thats insane compared to other 500hp cars on the list (I believe it was 1 second short of being one of the top 10). Not to mention the staight line performance is outstanding.

Can they do it again? I guess the better question would be... when haven't they been able to do it again? ;)

Corvette for the fucking win. As always.

[DarcSystems]

just pure attention to the performance.
I really liked the looks of the C5

It had a nice rounded, less chiseled look. Sporty.

'course the 63 split window is still #1 for looks in my opinion

[Meio]

The Z06 has gotten progressively better from a bar set pretty high. The last C5 Z06 was awesome... just pure attention to the performance.

That's not true of the C5 or the C6. Why no carbon ceramic brakes, because they cost too much. That's not 'pure attention to the performance', that's 'built down to a budget'.

The car performed above and beyond what most people gave it credit for - and still, even today I still think people aren't giving it due respect. I mean with a 100hp bump, and more refined tuning discovered and researched through the development of their fucking race cars, it continually proves itself - timing in a Nurburgring record thats insane compared to other 500hp cars on the list (I believe it was 1 second short of being one of the top 10). Not to mention the staight line performance is outstanding.

What are you babbling about? The Z06 is all you yanks prattle on about these days, how is that not getting due respect?

Oh and according to Wikipedia the Z06 actually less than 1 second short of being the fastest round the Nordschleife, but then again so are 32 other cars. There are cars above it with more power and less power, some cost way more, some cost a lot less. I don't get what's insane about the achievement of being 16th fastest round a circuit. What's insane is the Radical SR8 which as mentioned by Danny Lee in his reference to the similar Westfield is truly 'pure attention to performance' and costs a lot less than a Z06 over here, you just wouldn't want to take your granny down to the shops in one.

Can they do it again? I guess the better question would be... when haven't they been able to do it again? ;)

Corvette for the fucking win. As always.

When did they win anything before? The C5 Z06 times for Nordschleife are manfuacturers claims, and the the Z06s that race in GT prove that GM can pay some race engineers to build a car that looks a bit like a Z06 that goes slightly faster most of the time than the team that Ford pay to make a car that looks a bit like an Aston. I'd be interested to see what happens now Ford have sold Aston. I'm gonna predict that the new owners give up on racing leaving GM no competition (unless ford reincarnate the racing credentials of one of their other marques), and racing with no competition is pointless, so there is a good chance GM will pull out of GT too.

[EeekiE]

The problem is in order to compete with a $250,000.00 Ferrari completely it would have to be hand made with a production limited to perhaps 2,000 units a year. With hand stitched leathear of the highest quality and exotic materials.

But why do that when it