Deisel Powered Audi R10 Takes Le Mans 24 Hours Win

[PitwrkzZ1]

LE MANS, France -- Audi enhanced their reputation as the ultimate Le Mans specialists with a fourth successive triumph in the sportscar classic on Sunday.

The German manufacturers, who have now won seven of the last eight races here, survived a scare and a brave challenge from Peugeot as changing weather made the event more difficult.

Germans Frank Biela and Marco Werner and Italy's Emanuele Pirro, the winning 2006 trio, steered their diesel-fueled Audi R10 number one to a relatively comfortable victory.

Peugeot, returning to the 24-hour race for the first time since their one-two-three in 1993 and following Audi by also relying on the diesel technology, had to be content with second place for one of their 908 prototypes.

The other, with former Formula One champion Jacques Villeneuve among its drivers, started experiencing mechanical trouble with around two hours to go and eventually pulled out because of broken engine 77 minutes from the finish.

It was, however, an encouraging performance from the French carmakers, who had said they were still testing the 908 and would be fighting for victory next year.

A Pescarolo-Judd prototype with Frenchman Emmanuel Collard taking the last stint at the wheel exploited Villeneuve's misfortune to come a surprise third.

Audi, who were the first to win with a diesel engine here last year, had two cars in front and were dreaming of a double when their number two car, that had led almost from Saturday's start, crashed out in the early hours of Sunday morning.

Italian Rinaldo Capello lost control of his car after his rear-left wheel came off entering the Indianapolis curve. The two-times Le Mans winner skated across the gravel and hit the tyre barrier at high speed.
Birthday

The driver, celebrating his 43rd birthday, escaped unhurt but the car was too damaged to be restarted.

The Audi number one then driven by Biela, in second position two laps back when Capello crashed, took the lead and never let go.

The situation, however, was not comfortable for Audi, who only had one car left in the event after losing their third prototype through an accident on Saturday.

To make matters worse, the rain, which had stopped after a miserable Saturday afternoon, returned for the last couple of hours, forcing the race to be neutralized under yellow flags until the green flag returned with 10 minutes left.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/SPORT/06/17/motor.audi/index.html

The Audi R10 has won the Le Mans 24 Hours for the second straight year, with another commanding victory.

I'm sure most of those who read the article had no idea who most of the drivers are, or what a 'Pescarolo-Judd' LMP1 car is. And rightly so. Why should you care about cars that look like this: http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/images/large/2611-27.jpg going around round and round for a day in France?

You should care because the toughest motor race in the world the top two out of three spots occupied by diesel powered cars. The Audi R10 and the Peugeot 908 HDi FAP went around the Le Mans circuit successively for 24 straight hours at speeds exceeding 200mph. They did this without black smoke belching from their exhausts or loud roars coming from under their engine covers. The only sounds to be heard where the high pitched whistles of their twin turbochargers.

America, diesel fuel is the answer until an reliable alternative to fossil fuels can be found. E85 will not save the planet. It has numerous problems that I won't go into right now, but look it up. Diesel fuel is where its at America. And not one mention of the 24 hour race on any of the major news networks. Its disappointing.

[shade]

Yes and no...

My wife has a diesel Jetta and it is quite nice. For most people to get the umph they are used to out of a diesel car, it has to be turbocharged. I am a fan of turbos (drive an MR2) but it is an added expense and a whole extra layer to consider for reliability, as you probably know with an RX7.

Right now diesel prices are deceptively stable. The reason for that is that the number one consumer of diesel fuel in the US is the trucking industry. Since demand is basically constant, and there is little to no formula difference due to seasonality, the price of diesel is a lot more constant than gasoline.

However, if tons of cars switched to diesel then the demand for diesel would go up an amazing amount and so would the price.

If anything, there should just be more diesel versions of cars available. I would not want to encourage a massive shift, however.

Also.. have you kept up with using E85 as an alternative to racing gas? Some MR2 drivers have had great success programming for E85 for their air/fuel mix and have cranked out a lot more boost safely due to the octane.


I wonder how long it will be before Le Mans bans diesel the same way they did rotaries due to it being an "unfair advantage".

[PitwrkzZ1]

Yes and no...

My wife has a diesel Jetta and it is quite nice. For most people to get the umph they are used to out of a diesel car, it has to be turbocharged. I am a fan of turbos (drive an MR2) but it is an added expense and a whole extra layer to consider for reliability, as you probably know with an RX7.
As with any other engine, a properly maintained a turbocharged engine will last on average just 5% shorter than a non-turbocharged engine. And I've seen turbodiesels go for close to a million miles without any problems.

Right now diesel prices are deceptively stable. The reason for that is that the number one consumer of diesel fuel in the US is the trucking industry. Since demand is basically constant, and there is little to no formula difference due to seasonality, the price of diesel is a lot more constant than gasoline.

However, if tons of cars switched to diesel then the demand for diesel would go up an amazing amount and so would the price.

If anything, there should just be more diesel versions of cars available. I would not want to encourage a massive shift, however.I'm sure refineries wouldn't mind stopping the refining process at diesel instead of going on to make gasoline. I don't really know how that works, but the industry would cope. If the there is more demand, they will just increase production, as long as it nets them profits.

Also.. have you kept up with using E85 as an alternative to racing gas? Some MR2 drivers have had great success programming for E85 for their air/fuel mix and have cranked out a lot more boost safely due to the octane. I actually an article that proposed the use of high compression, high boost engines running E85. Thats how one would optimize the properties of the fuel. I think some racing teams in the American Le Mans Series are using E25 or E30 race fuels too. Cool stuff.

The problem with E85 is that there is no way we would be able to produce enough corn or grain to meet the demands of an entire country running on E85. Even in limited quantities, it is vastly expensive to produce. It also gets less mileage out of standard gasoline engines. For there to be a real solution with E85, we would have to grow a massive surplus of corn and switch over to high boost, high compression engines. Diesel ain't seeming so bad now eh? :p


I wonder how long it will be before Le Mans bans diesel the same way they did rotaries due to it being an "unfair advantage".Le Mans rules actually favor the production of diesel engined cars. But they'll probably change their minds in a few years.

[Papero]

How exactly is diesel an alternative? It won't last us any longer, pollutes, what you said doesn't make sense.

So you want all of America to switch to diesel and be in the same boat we are now? Ok, that will take a good 50 years.

And at the moment regardless of diesel being easier to make it's more expensive due to additives and regulations.

Any current organic fuel isn't practical, people think it's as easy as replanting and don't realize the amount of these plants needed to make these fuels even slightly worth while, to make it short huge increases in the price of food and famine would occur. There's only so much land, the fuel would produce more profit for farmers and for the U.S and how our government is now there will still be no incentive to produce products for human consumption on a massive scale. It's alarming how absolutely no one looks at the big picture, they just see a different fuel type and run around screaming it's the answer.

It's depressing, all of these ideas are wonderful and all but in order for no lives to be lost and we all live the lives we are now something must be found that can be adaptable to our current vehicles, practical, easy to manufactur, unlimited and be fully operational within the next 20-30 years not that major problems won't occur over oil well before then.

[shade]

The thing about a turbo is it can go out before or after the main engine and it is generally a labor intensive task to replace or fix, and the part is usually expensive. Most turbos only last between 80-150k miles, so in the case of a diesel, while the engine lasts a long time, you can expect to rebuild or replace your turbos more than once during the lifespan.

Also, there is more to how long a car lasts than just the engine. You will have brakes, power steer, ac, vacuum system, cooling system, computer, gauges, exhaust, rust, paint, upholstery, security systems, etc that all age regardless of the core engine. Eventually the car looks old and the person wants a new one. This is usually between 50k and 200k miles. Usually people dont wait until their rings are bad to sell.

My customers at work are in the trucking industry, and replacing turbos is almost routine maintenance for them.

[GlutSow]

I would like to see some development in hydrogen fuel. I know it is a massive step but if we could find a practical method of using it to refuel our cars, we wouldn't have to worry about the middle east! And even then, It does not pollute the environment.

[PitwrkzZ1]

How exactly is diesel an alternative? It won't last us any longer, pollutes, what you said doesn't make sense.

So you want all of America to switch to diesel and be in the same boat we are now? Ok, that will take a good 50 years.

And at the moment regardless of diesel being easier to make it's more expensive due to additives and regulations.
And there is the typical American picture of diesel fuel. Modern diesels are clean, efficient and reliable, (ie Audi R10). Wikipedia:Diesel-powered cars generally have a better fuel economy than equivalent gasoline engines and produce only about 69% as much greenhouse gas pollution.
pollution could be reduced even further is the particulate filter technology used in the Le Mans diesel cars are implemented in road cars. Along with the new ultra low sulfur diesels being introduced, diesels will be much cleaner than gasoline powered automobiles in the near future.

Of course the whole country isn't going to switch to diesel, but with education as to the benefits of modern diesels, maybe more people will look into them.

Cost can be offset by the greater fuel economy of diesels. Plus, biodiesels can be used in any diesel engine.

Any current organic fuel isn't practical, people think it's as easy as replanting and don't realize the amount of these plants needed to make these fuels even slightly worth while, to make it short huge increases in the price of food and famine would occur. There's only so much land, the fuel would produce more profit for farmers and for the U.S and how our government is now there will still be no incentive to produce products for human consumption on a massive scale. It's alarming how absolutely no one looks at the big picture, they just see a different fuel type and run around screaming it's the answer.Agreed about the organic fuels, but diesels are different. The American perception of them as dirty and loud has to be changed before they are fully accepted.

It's depressing, all of these ideas are wonderful and all but in order for no lives to be lost and we all live the lives we are now something must be found that can be adaptable to our current vehicles, practical, easy to manufactur, unlimited and be fully operational within the next 20-30 years not that major problems won't occur over oil well before then.Good luck finding that! :p

[Burningnun]

It does less than 5 MPG and it's the solution to our environmental problems?

10 for effort.

[Papero]

And there is the typical American picture of diesel fuel. Modern diesels are clean, efficient and reliable, (ie Audi R10). Wikipedia:
pollution could be reduced even further is the particulate filter technology used in the Le Mans diesel cars are implemented in road cars. Along with the new ultra low sulfur diesels being introduced, diesels will be much cleaner than gasoline powered automobiles in the near future.

Of course the whole country isn't going to switch to diesel, but with education as to the benefits of modern diesels, maybe more people will look into them.

Cost can be offset by the greater fuel economy of diesels. Plus, biodiesels can be used in any diesel engine.

Agreed about the organic fuels, but diesels are different. The American perception of them as dirty and loud has to be changed before they are fully accepted.

Good luck finding that! :p



Oh no, I don't have the American perception for diesel being the dirtiest kid on the block. I was comparing diesel to the alternatives though I didn't type it, diesel isn't at the answer for a green planet.

Now I'm slightly confused on how you're saying diesel is the answer? Are you speaking of the newer way(some kind of clean process) of coal into diesel? It apparently burns very, very clean and it's said there's enough coal on this planet to last us a century or two.

The current and massively produced diesel isn't the answer.

[shade]

My wife's Jetta gets 45 MPG.

Big rig trucks get about 5-6 MPG, but keep in mind that is while towing 15 tons of weight.

Diesel definitely gets higher mileage. The main contributor to that is they are very high compression. That means every little bit of the fuel is combusted and much less energy is wasted.

[Nocturnal]

That R10 is a beast, sooo much torque.

Yes and no...

My wife has a diesel Jetta and it is quite nice. For most people to get the umph they are used to out of a diesel car, it has to be turbocharged. I am a fan of turbos (drive an MR2) but it is an added expense and a whole extra layer to consider for reliability, as you probably know with an RX7.

Right now diesel prices are deceptively stable. The reason for that is that the number one consumer of diesel fuel in the US is the trucking industry. Since demand is basically constant, and there is little to no formula difference due to seasonality, the price of diesel is a lot more constant than gasoline.

However, if tons of cars switched to diesel then the demand for diesel would go up an amazing amount and so would the price.

If anything, there should just be more diesel versions of cars available. I would not want to encourage a massive shift, however.

Also.. have you kept up with using E85 as an alternative to racing gas? Some MR2 drivers have had great success programming for E85 for their air/fuel mix and have cranked out a lot more boost safely due to the octane.


I wonder how long it will be before Le Mans bans diesel the same way they did rotaries due to it being an "unfair advantage".

IMO a blended effect of fuels is our best/easiest option. More diesel, flex fuel, hybrids, and plug in electrics.

I wondered about the e85 performance aspect. Seems a no brainer to me, easy way to run alcohal in your car. Maybe I'll try that in the 335i when it get's here. ;)

[FIBRAA]

Diesel is definitely better than regular gasoline, from the refining process up. Just imagine a large Silo being heated and having gases go up through chambers that cool it. Basically the chamber above diesel is gasoline, which means that from Raw materials more diesel can be created than gasoline. Also due to the fact that diesel makes use of Hydrocarbons, a more stable carbon, whereas gasoline makes use of Fleurocarbons, by process of elimination a less stable carbon, diesel works significantly better in high-comp settings, and runs less rich, which doesn't lead to much excess gas needing to be burned off, seeing as most of it is used to run the engine. Also, in a turbocharged setting especially Diesel provides more performance while producing less waste. Diesel is better.

As for E85, it would be great if it didn't corrode your vehicle. I like my vehicle and it's gas tank and fuel lines, I don't want to have to replace them every couple years. I don't want to replace them ever. Ever. A way to solve the problem of E85's water based make-up is just done by mixing of fuels, and adding diesel to it. E85 can be produced on a massive scale, seeing as the government actually limits corn-growing-farmers, in a manner of speaking. What happens is these farmers use a smaller percentage of their fields (and also they don't plant as densely) and sell a portion of the crop to the government during the harvest season. What they don't sell to the government is shipped out for various manufacturing; it is what we see on the shelves of our food stores, and whatever else people happen to be doing with corn. The other portion that is sold to the government is subsequently burned, due to the fact that the government wants to keep these farmers in business by keeping the demand for their product high, but also doesn't want to flood the market with cheap corn, in turn depreciating the value of it. If we created E85 there would be less government spending on corn (for those who care about the five- or six-dollars that the government spends on corn annually) and we'd have that alternative fuel, as well as a few happy farmers.

boom.