Percussionists

[anobody]

I think this is the right section. Are you a drummer? Post here and talk about it.

I'll start off.

I began in beginning band and it took me 3 years to go to advanced band as a percussionist. I wasn't a very good listener and I never practiced. I probably started getting WAY better in late 7th to mid 8th grade. But here I am as a percussionist in highschool. I'm just a freshman, but everyone thinks I'm good for a freshman. I'm not one of those percussionists that can't read rhythms or don't know how to count whole notes, half notes, quarter notes, etc. I'm starting to play clarinet as my secondary instrument. I'm a quad-player but I can also play the bass, snare, and cymbals very well too. :wave:

Edit: Whoops. I also play drumset. Forgot to mention that. I don't have a drumset, but I've sort of got some skills. :p I just go to my friend's house and mooch off of him and play on his drumset. I also got pretty good with my feet on the double bass pedals. I have to agree with you guys. I'd rather prefer musical drumming rather than, you know, hardcore skills on the set. I find those amusing anyway though. :D

[Johnny Mei]

I'm not one of those percussionists that can't read rhythms or don't know how to count whole notes, half notes, quarter notes, etc.

You're not a percussionist then.

You're a Drummer.

Learn how to read music, and learn those rudiments. I marched 5 years of Snare in high school, and it goes a long way, a lot longer than you think. Not just to be a better percussionist, but a better musician.

[Blazt Furnace]

I've been a drummer for about a year now, starting out when I was 14. I feel like I've truly grown a lot in the way I play and view drumming and music, and my genre influences are mostly in rock, country, jazz, and bossa nova/samba (which is really cool shit). I really want to develop my technique, but I can't seem to find a good, stable, comfortable drumset within good reach (which I'm desperate to be able to do). At my dad's house, I have a full kit, but all the years of adjusting it, losing parts, and just generally misusing it have made it to where I can't get comfortable or ever feel like I'm playing to my full ability, which is frustrating. At my mom's, I have an electric drum pad, but those just don't work. They just don't. I have a drumming instructor, but the problem with him is that he's a real hippie, and is really flaky (we haven't heard from him in over a month, it seems), so I don't get to play his kit either (which is a great kit).

My general attitude towards drumming is that it's not what you know or how much you can do, it's what you do with it. Skill is a bonus; it's what you do for a song that counts. You could play this really technical solo as much as you like, but I wouldn't truly be impressed until we played with you and found out what you like to do for the music itself. As a result of this, all of my favorite drummers are my favorite because of their style and approach rather than their actual technical ability. Lots of my favorite drummers have just average (good) talent behind the kit, and I don't like the drumming of Joey Jordison, Neil Peart, Bill Ward, Tim Alexander, etc (though Jordison's skill isn't even that good, I won't be convinced until he stops whoring the double-kick).

Some of my favorite drummers include (but are not limited to) the following:

Steven Adler (Guns & Roses)
Lars Ulrich (Metallica)
Mark McKay (Slapshot)
John Rutsey (Rush)
Eric Kretz (Stone Temple Pilots)
John Bonham (Led Zeppelin)
Ginger Baker (Cream)

Looking at that, many people here will probably get the impression that I don't know shit about drumming, or that my choices only stem from the fact that I'm quite young, new to drumming, and happen to like said bands. The fact of the matter is, however, I know that a lot of the drumming material is technically not very hard to play. As I mentioned before, I'm drawn more to style than technique, and I actually really tend to like drummers that are more on the basic side of things and not too indulgent (though I don't like the overly simple style/approach of Meg White or Phil Rudd or any of those really early swing drummers before folks like Gene Krupa came along). Plus, each and every one of those drummers (save for Bonham and Baker, who have received well-earned recognition) has a lot more skill than most people give them credit for (Ulrich especially, the amount of shit that guy gets is incredible, he's easily the most underrated drummer ever). Not putting a bunch of syncopated riffs and Portnoy-esque fills every 3rd measure in a song doesn't mean you're a bad drummer.

I'm still not that good of a drummer. But I know what to learn and what to do, and I still know what's going on when I hear it. I know how hard or easy something is to play.

[Johnny Mei]

And you summed up a great point, Blazt Furnace, which is it really shouldn't matter how good of a drummer you are technically, it's all about playing musically. By the way I'm talking in the perspective of being a drummer on a drumset, not in an orchestra or school band or Drum Corp.

Perfect example. Virgil Donati. Sure, hes got chops, and plays difficult patterns, but is any of it musical? Hardly.

Neil Peart. Listen to his solos on the Rush In Rio concert or the R30 concert. Both solos were great musically. I can sing a Neil Peart solo. A Donati? Absolutely not.

[G-manMET]

Favorite drummers are:

Jeremiah Green (Modest Mouse) - The song "Trucker's Atlas" is a cool easy tom groove that's fun to learn. This guy is a very subtle drummer and doesn't show off. His most recent albums aren't outstanding drumming but his earlier stuff is definitely respectable.
Billy Martin (Medeski, Martin & Wood) - This guy is a really grooving drummer.
Bill Bruford (King Crimson) - I listen to his stuff from King Crimson, specifically Discipline, but he has played in many other bands including Yes. He is an amazing drummer! In Discipline he never uses the hi-hat or ride in sixteenths or straight eighths. He's complex but simple at the same time. He talks about this here. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=4YJaRyLupPY)
John McEntire/John Herndon (Tortoise) - Most of their studio albums are electric drums, but when you see them live, they go all acoustic. You can find their concerts up for download for free on the internet. The song "It's All Around You" has an amazing groove live.

Check out any of these guys and listen to their stuff. You can definitely pick up some helpful tips for drumming from them. PM if you want to hear any of their stuff, and I'll gladly upload some for you.

I'm coming up to finishing my second year of drum playing. I agree that you should play what fits the music, but you should still practice your chops. You never know what sort of music will approach you, and playing some crazy shit could fit the style just right.

Books to get:
Syncopation - You can play this book in so many ways, and it can improve all styles of your playing.
The Drummer's Complete Vocabulary As Taught by Alan Dawson - It has The Ritual, which is a piece of music that incorporates the American Rudiments, the Swiss Army Rudiments, and the Chops Builders Rudiments. It also tells you 40 ways you can play Syncopation.
Stick Control - A good book that will improve your sticking tremendously.
A Funky Primer - A book with dozens of beats that will improve your single pedal bass drum dramatically.

I'm currently saving up for a drum set and I'm heavily considering getting a Gretsch Catalina.

[anobody]

You're not a percussionist then.

You're a Drummer.

Learn how to read music, and learn those rudiments. I marched 5 years of Snare in high school, and it goes a long way, a lot longer than you think. Not just to be a better percussionist, but a better musician.

What do you mean? I know how to read music, and I know some basic and advanced rudiments. Am I missing the point? Or did you just read it wrong? :confused:

[GlutSow]

I've skimmed through many videos and books and basically came to this conclusion: practice a lot. And not only that, but practice things that feel uncomfortable and out of the norm. This has helped me in ways that I can't even describe.

One example I can give though is playing open-handed. It doesn't feel right but it helps so much.

[Johnny Mei]

What do you mean? I know how to read music, and I know some basic and advanced rudiments. Am I missing the point? Or did you just read it wrong? :confused:

You know what man, I did read that wrong. My apologies.

So in your band, how do the Snares play, traditional or matched grip

[anobody]

You know what man, I did read that wrong. My apologies.

So in your band, how do the Snares play, traditional or matched grip

lol Traditional of course. :wave:

And not only that, but practice things that feel uncomfortable and out of the norm. This has helped me in ways that I can't even describe.

Thanks for your tip. :)

[Johnny Mei]

Well the only reason I asked is because some schools still play Matched, ugh.

If you do play Snare though, practicing in front of a mirror helps, you get to see your stick height and any other mistakes you might be making.

[ryanthelion]

i started in 7th grade band...

played on the drumline in high school 3rd bass freshman year, then quints/tenors/whatever you call them the rest of my time in high school. ive been playing the set the whole time, too.

[anobody]

Well the only reason I asked is because some schools still play Matched, ugh.

If you do play Snare though, practicing in front of a mirror helps, you get to see your stick height and any other mistakes you might be making.

Haha. Yeah, it looks bad when highschool drumlines do it.

[Liquid Tension]

\ Not putting a bunch of syncopated riffs and Portnoy-esque fills every 3rd measure in a song doesn't mean you're a bad drummer

Dude, don't criticize Portnoy. He has really revolutionized modern drumming today. It has nothing to do with his technical skill, he can add so much depth to the music.

[CheeseMonkeys]

I've been playing the drums for about a year. I am a guitarist so drums aren't my specialty. I have gotten pretty fast and good at playing though. I know how to read music and rhythms also.

[Blazt Furnace]

Dude, don't criticize Portnoy. He has really revolutionized modern drumming today. It has nothing to do with his technical skill, he can add so much depth to the music.

Where did I criticize Portnoy? I simply meant to say that in spite of what is often expected out of many experienced drummers, you don't need to use all the syncopation and chops necessary to somehow prove what a great drummer you are. If anything, I was complimenting Portnoy, using his fills as an example of obvious skill. Of course, if a drummer wants to hear a lot of technique and action when he/she listens to a drummer, that's their business and I'm not going to bother with it, but that doesn't inherently make anyone who doesn't follow in that vein a "drummer with no talent" (a type of phrase which many tend to use towards drummers that "are way too simple").

[ryanthelion]

^much agreed

good chops and time keeping skills are, imo, more important than fancy fills

[The Ox]

I've actually just ordered a Premier Olympic drumkit, I used to play bass but my band needs a drummer so I decided to fill the role. Never played in my life, it should be a fine disaster.

Anyone got any tips?

[Blazt Furnace]

I've actually just ordered a Premier Olympic drumkit, I used to play bass but my band needs a drummer so I decided to fill the role. Never played in my life, it should be a fine disaster.

Anyone got any tips?

I guess I'd just recommend learning rudiments first. Once you have that down enough, fly any which way fits you and the band's music best, I suppose. Lots of people tend to try and fly off before they even know how to flap their wings properly, which can be difficult.

[Johnny Mei]

I've actually just ordered a Premier Olympic drumkit, I used to play bass but my band needs a drummer so I decided to fill the role. Never played in my life, it should be a fine disaster.

Anyone got any tips?

Yes, learn those rudiments. Buy a metronome and practice with it. Buy a practice pad, not those pads made out of rubber, buy the Remo practice pads. Look at your hands while you practice, make sure those pinkys aren't sticking out. You need them to control the stick. Hell, even though you're playing a set and most likely matched grip, I'd still say practice traditional, especially for those rudiments.

And about the Mike Portnoy fills comment, it brings up another good point about drumming. It doesn't matter sometimes how technical you are and how many fills your adding. Listen to a Jazz Drummer. It's a whole different art form, a whole different feel and way of thinking music. Besides when a Jazz Drummer plays a solo, most of his playing is quite basic, yet extremely challenging to pull it off. If you told the average Rock Drummer to sit behind the set and play a Jazz song, they probably couldn't do it. Yes, even Neil Peart and Mike Portnoy.

And it brings up another point. Ringo Starr. Highly underrated. Why? Yes, earlier Beatles songs had quite simple drumming, only towards the end of their years did it get more involved, but it was simple throughout, but it also delivered. Ringo did what he did great, simple Back Beats.

[ExOdUz60]

Stop making so many threads.

[Blazt Furnace]

Yes, learn those rudiments. Buy a metronome and practice with it. Buy a practice pad, not those pads made out of rubber, buy the Remo practice pads. Look at your hands while you practice, make sure those pinkys aren't sticking out. You need them to control the stick. Hell, even though you're playing a set and most likely matched grip, I'd still say practice traditional, especially for those rudiments.

And about the Mike Portnoy fills comment, it brings up another good point about drumming. It doesn't matter sometimes how technical you are and how many fills your adding. Listen to a Jazz Drummer. It's a whole different art form, a whole different feel and way of thinking music. Besides when a Jazz Drummer plays a solo, most of his playing is quite basic, yet extremely challenging to pull it off. If you told the average Rock Drummer to sit behind the set and play a Jazz song, they probably couldn't do it. Yes, even Neil Peart and Mike Portnoy.

And it brings up another point. Ringo Starr. Highly underrated. Why? Yes, earlier Beatles songs had quite simple drumming, only towards the end of their years did it get more involved, but it was simple throughout, but it also delivered. Ringo did what he did great, simple Back Beats.

Those are some interesting points you bring up. I'm intent on studying jazz concept soon myself. It's quite interesting, given that genres such as rock and R&B and pop are built from the drums up, whereas jazz drumming is, in a sense, more freeform. I'm not sure what makes that, because I'm not a jazz expert (and, while it interests me, I'm not really that big a fan). The way I see it, rock is easier to learn but harder to master, whereas jazz is harder to learn but easier to master once you get the hang of it. Learning stick/hand control and use of rudiments is a real pain in the ass, especially if you make the mistake I did of jumping ahead of your game and trying to learn beats and fills and shit before you even know what the fuck a paradiddle is.

[anobody]

Stop making so many threads.

Stop being such a vagina chin. This thread is serious and isn't for flaming. Do you see any EBW members screwing around?

[Blazt Furnace]

Stop being such a vagina chin.

What the fuck.:err::lol:

[gatorpatric0]

I am currently a Snare Drummer for Georgia Southern University, in my 3rd year. I've been playing snare for 7 years, and to answer all of your questions, I am a supreme baller at it.

[anobody]

What the fuck.:err::lol:

Heard someone say it on Halo 2. :)

I am currently a Snare Drummer for Georgia Southern University, in my 3rd year. I've been playing snare for 7 years, and to answer all of your questions, I am a supreme baller at it.

Sick. Got any video of you guys in action?

[yamahadrummer]

been playing for about ten years now. started in 5th grade band..on snare drum. i really sucked because i didnt practice. i quite band a year after that to switch to drum set lessons, which i kept with for about 7 years then i quit because i didnt have time. I can read notes and all that jazz. i joined drumline my junior year in highschool and was on quads, and also that was the year our marching band got 2 1's (best rating you can get) which was first for our school.
i started on a ludwig accent 5 piece set, then freshman year in high school i got a yamaha stage custom advantage 5 piece and new cymbals (zbt's at the time) and ive been using that set with all zildjian z and a customs (mega bell ride is sex) and i have all yamaha hardware including my flying dragon direct drive double pedal. i love that thing, its so smooth. i use remo coated heads on everything except the bass, which has a pinstripe on it. my set is set up kinda weird, the 12 and 13 tom are to the left of the bass drum, not on it, and my ride is over the bass drum. i experimented with many configurations before coming to this one, and i love it. ive been in my band for 6 years, and we have played many gigs. we are best described as progessive funk metal...hah, yea. uhh...i use vic firth 5A nylon's...and thats about it i guess.
oh, the most influencial drummers in my life are:
Mike Portnoy (dream theater)
Chris Adler ( Lamb of God)
Jose Pasillas ( Incubus. old incubus is the shit. new...sucks.)
Chad Sexton ( 311)
Danny Carey ( Tool)
Tim Alexander (Primus)

i was really bored so i decided to write all this..:D

[anobody]

Damn, get a picture of that set. Sounds pretty sweet. I agree with you. Old Incubus was sick and new sucks. The Primus drummer's very musical and I enjoy his drumming.

[ryanthelion]

I am currently a Snare Drummer for Georgia Southern University, in my 3rd year. I've been playing snare for 7 years, and to answer all of your questions, I am a supreme baller at it.

i was just about to ask if you were a baller at it

[Blazt Furnace]

I actually like Brian Mantia's drumming a lot better than Tim Alexander's. I'm not a fan of the really straight, double-bass laden, alt-prog rock style he has (although he has talent). Brian, on the other hand, is more of a hard-hitting, traditional rock/jazz sort of guy. I haven't quite put my finger on what makes him so great, but I really like the way he plays. I'd rather listen to him drum over Tim any day.

[yamahadrummer]

Damn, get a picture of that set. Sounds pretty sweet. I agree with you. Old Incubus was sick and new sucks. The Primus drummer's very musical and I enjoy his drumming.

i will take a picture when i go back home this weekend and upload it

I actually like Brian Mantia's drumming a lot better than Tim Alexander's. I'm not a fan of the really straight, double-bass laden, alt-prog rock style he has (although he has talent). Brian, on the other hand, is more of a hard-hitting, traditional rock/jazz sort of guy. I haven't quite put my finger on what makes him so great, but I really like the way he plays. I'd rather listen to him drum over Tim any day.

yea, i do like Brain alot too. i love C2B3.

[ryanthelion]

i guess if we're gonna discuss drummers ill throw out michael giles, awesome, awesome drummer

[Blazt Furnace]

Ah, from King Crimson? Talented drummer. Very all over, though. Not in the sense that he's sloppy, but a lot of his moves just don't seem to make much sense to me (although in his defense, King Crimson's sound can call for that sort of drumming at times). As far as drummers for progressive rock bands go, I prefer Gavin Harrison from Porcupine Tree.

[gatorpatric0]

....Actually not really. We are having a good year this year though, so later this year we will have several videos. We are playing DB04 and Latin Lover, so im sure we will video both of those later on.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Coo1guy5

That's all the videos we have on the Net right now. That guy's girlfriend takes videos of us and he puts them on YouTube but not under our name. They are just tools to track if we've gotten better.

[QUOTE=ryanthelion;3832065]i was just about to ask if you were a baller at it

Yes. Im a baller at it.

[Johnny Mei]

If anyone is interested in Drumlines or Drum Corps, the DCI Championship is on tonight on ESPN2 at 10:00

[ryanthelion]

If anyone is interested in Drumlines or Drum Corps, the DCI Championship is on tonight on ESPN2 at 10:00

thanks for the heads up def. going to watch

[temp100]

Ah, from King Crimson? Talented drummer. Very all over, though. Not in the sense that he's sloppy, but a lot of his moves just don't seem to make much sense to me (although in his defense, King Crimson's sound can call for that sort of drumming at times). As far as drummers for progressive rock bands go, I prefer Gavin Harrison from Porcupine Tree.
I find Gavin Harrison to be a very underrated drummer. I hold him in my top 5 rock/metal drummers ever. He has wonderful feel and fills but doesn't overcomplicate things. That middle section in Anesthetize which has little else but drum fills is great.

[ZX-6RR]

Mike Portnoy
Mike Mangini
Terry Bozzio
Neil Peart
Bill Bruford
Stewart Copeland
Simon Phillips
Steve Gadd
Dave Weckl
Vinnie Colaiuta
Hannes Grossmann
(and a shit load of tech death metal drummers i.e. Quo Vadis, Cryptopsy, Meshuggah... etc)

My Gods. :p

Notable mentions also go to Keith Moon, Shannon Larkin, Buddy Rich, Lars Ulrich (Ride the Lightning was awesome), Vinne Paul Abbott, Raymond Herrera, Nick Menza, Nick Mason, and probably a bunch more.

:D

[Blazt Furnace]

Good to see someone other than me has some appreciation for Ulrich! Good choices. And Buddy Rich is always respectable, at least as far as drumming goes.

Sad day for me. I was leafing through a newspaper in newspaper class at school today and came across an article. As it turns out, my drum instructor (whom I hadn't kept in contact with for more than a month) died with his son in a car crash. Such a shame. He was a great guy, and he was actually loved, admired, and respected by over 2500 children where I live.

I guess that isn't really relevant to this discussion. I just wanted to get that off my chest. And, in addition to the tragedy of the event, I am now in need of a new drum tutor.

Any takers? :/

[yamahadrummer]

my old drum teacher is in charge of the UNL drumline. they are pretty damn good.

[anobody]

....Actually not really. We are having a good year this year though, so later this year we will have several videos. We are playing DB04 and Latin Lover, so im sure we will video both of those later on.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Coo1guy5

That's all the videos we have on the Net right now. That guy's girlfriend takes videos of us and he puts them on YouTube but not under our name. They are just tools to track if we've gotten better.



Yes. Im a baller at it.

Quad players fuckin' rule. I'm a quad player too. :D

[yamahadrummer]

Quad players fuckin' rule. I'm a quad player too. :D

as was i...last year. fun shit though.

[Durt]

I drum on the turntables and collect records with drum breaks.


I am surprised no-one has mentioned Michael Viners Incredable Bongo Band yet.

[Blazt Furnace]

I know this will probably put me in the minority here, but I was listening to AC/DC's Highway to Hell record earlier and I must say I'm impressed with Phil Rudd. I like his very simplistic approach to things, and how he doesn't use the less-is-more attitude to just play straight rock beats and just throw flams in all of the breaks. There's a real level of dynamic and creativity to what he does, and I'm really starting to dig it now.

[Blazt Furnace]

collect records with drum breaks.

What does that mean?

[Johnny Mei]

I know this will probably put me in the minority here, but I was listening to AC/DC's Highway to Hell record earlier and I must say I'm impressed with Phil Rudd. I like his very simplistic approach to things, and how he doesn't use the less-is-more attitude to just play straight rock beats and just throw flams in all of the breaks. There's a real level of dynamic and creativity to what he does, and I'm really starting to dig it now.

See, yet another perfect example. You don't have to throw in Mike Portnoy fills to be great. Phil Rudd is playing the easiest beats on drums, so simple, but so effective, and so fucking awesome.

[Durt]

~Break~
A break may be described as when the song takes a "breather, drops down to some exciting percussion, and then comes storming back again" and compared to a fake ending. Most songs have a break at two-thirds to three-quarters of their length and the break is usually visible on a record as a dark ring. (Brewster and Broughton 2003, p.79)


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