Kid Tazered For Asking Kerry About Vote Suppression

[Vilkata]

MSNBC Video Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCBcOQkUNjI)


So much for free speech.



If he were ignored, brushed off, ok I can see that. Arrested and tazered?

[Just Spurplin]

Arrested? Uncalled for. Kerry was actually answering the question, I don't know why the security showed up. He even said he would answer the question.

Tazered? Called for. If you resist arrest thats what happens.

[Shameless]

Because resisting arrest is protected freedom of speech...:dunce:

[shade]

He shouldnt have been arrested in the first place. What crime did he commit?

That crowd should have beaten those police.

[theC]

I still think the tazer use was unjustified. IMO they should only be used when there is a real danger to the officer(s)/public. Even if you try to resist arrest, there are limits to what the police can do. The guy wasn't swinging punches, wasn't wielding a weapon and there were more than enough officers to take him down and he was already pinned when the tazer was used.

[Striyzh]

This is like throwing a fucking propane tank into the "Secret Societies" fire.

I even found myself asking why the police moved in so quick as soon as he mentioned Skull and Bones.

[shade]

And so what if he was resisting arrest!?!?! HE DID NOT COMMIT ANY CRIME.

The crowd would be JUSTIFIED in attacking those people who were VIOLATING the constitution. Imo..

ON CONSTITUTION DAY

[Just Spurplin]

I still think the tazer use was unjustified. IMO they should only be used when there is a real danger to the officer(s)/public.

In my opinion, the opinion of the police, and of many others, resisting arrest poses a real danger to the officers, public, and the person being arrested. They could have broken his wrist or arm trying to get his hands behind his back, and broken his ankle stepping on it while trying to get them to the ground. I think just about anyone would take a tazer over that.

Even if you try to resist arrest, there are limits to what the police can do.
Yes there are, and tazering people resisting arrest have always been within those limits.

The guy wasn't swinging punches, wasn't wielding a weapon and there were more than enough officers to take him down and he was already pinned when the tazer was used.
Do you know how incredibly hard it is to get someones hands behind their backs? It has nothing to do with strength or numbers, if you have your arms locked in front of you it is extremely fucking hard for any number of people to not only get them behind your back, but to keep them still, and within a few inches of each other, long enough to get cuffs on. And like I said, resist enough and you can end up dislocating your shoulder, breaking your finger, wrist, arm.



The kid shouldn't have been escorted out by security (note they weren't even arresting him untill he started fighting back, they were just having him leave). I'll agree that was bull shit. I think everyone will agree that was bull shit. BUt the kid should have been smart. He should have gone laughing his ass, knowing that there is no way the security would be able to get out of this in the long run, instead of forcing them to arrest him for breaking a law. What's the famous picture of Rosa Parks? Of her calmly standing there while giving her finger print. Not of her throwing her arms in the air screaming "NO! STOP! YOU CANT- YOU CANT- NO YOU CANT DO THIS!" Everyone in the audience and everyone that has seen the tape know they can't make him leave for asking a question.

Had he gone quietly everyone would be disgusted at them making him leave. But since he acted like a retard, everyone will be focusing on whether or not his resisting arrest should have been handled like that, and not making him leave over a question. The students stupid actions ruined a very strong point.

[Frosty]

I'm sorry, but I don't agree that the kid should have left quietly. No way. If I was being told to leave the building after asking John Kerry a clearly plausible question and had the backing of the senator (note that John Kerry said he would answer the question before the police even moved in) and I hadn't done anything wrong? I wouldn't leave.

And if you look, it's not even that the kid wouldn't leave. He immediately screams that they're arresting him. Clearly the kid thought he was being arrested right off the bat when the police moved in. It wasn't a case of "Sir, can you please leave the area?" The first police officer grabs the kid's arm and proceeds to try and propel him towards the exit.

First things first, the security at that moment in time wasn't necessary. The kid was asking a perfectly reasonable question and his voice wasn't that riled up or anything. John Kerry acknowledged the question and said he'd answer it. Then the police force moved in.

There was no reason to even ask the kid to leave. He wasn't disrupting any event or gathering. He was asking a perfectly justified question. When the officer reaches him and steers the kid toward the exit, the kid really believes he's being arrested (hell, I would've thought so too if a police officer grabbed my arm). He hasn't done anything wrong and that's why he resists. He should have every right to resist at that point (I understand perfectly that you shouldn't resist, but what good would that have done? There would've been no media coverage on this event and it would've been a case of telling the kid after the event, "You disrupted the event. That's why we brought you out." and that would've been the end of it).

I'm glad the kid resisted. This provides even more media coverage and shows what idiots the police officers were at this moment. And no, I'm not one of those people who bashes the police force whenever he gets a chance. There's only a few bad apples, but clearly there's a bunch of them right there.

And the taser? A huge group of police officers surround the kid and they can't cuff him? Seriously? Even if what Spurplin said is true about having the hands in front of your body, we can't tell from this video. They might have been restrained behind him for all we know. It seems like just an excuse to taser a civilian who hasn't done any wrongdoing (and hasn't been told his rights and/or crime). It's ridiculous.

[Bartok]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5514115855179636949

Longer video (pretty horrible camera work), shows the kid's entire ramble/question/arrest.

He was a bit of an asshole, but I don't see why the cops did what they did. Free speech and all that.

More horrifying, though, is how passive the audience is.

[shade]

More horrifying, though, is how passive the audience is.

My thoughts exactly. Who will protect these sheep when they are hauled off for a thought crime??

[ryanthelion]

he should have left when the cops started pushing him out... im all for what he was saying and freedom of speech, but when the mall security guards thought it was time for him to leave there's no point in fighting it, they always get there way.

and the crowd should have helped him, there were alot more of guys watching angrily in that audience then security guards, they could have over-powered them.

[Father Max]

My thoughts exactly. Who will protect these sheep when they are hauled off for a thought crime??

Another 1984 reference, nice work Shade.

[Sketcher]

Kerry should bail the kid out - that would be a real slap in the face to those cops.

[refoops]

If I was that cop, I would of tazered him just to get him to shut the fuck up.

[Henkie]

The other side of the story is the he isn't arrested for what he said or thought, but for how he did it. Maybe arresting the dude went a bit far, but getting him a bit subdued wasn't a bad plan, imo.

[nexushexus]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5514115855179636949

Longer video (pretty horrible camera work), shows the kid's entire ramble/question/arrest.

He was a bit of an asshole, but I don't see why the cops did what they did. Free speech and all that.

More horrifying, though, is how passive the audience is.
I 've noticed ( and with no insult at all to frosty ) that alot of people are calling this adult a 'kid'. Just because he's still a student doesn't mean he has less civil liberties. This looks like assault and aggravated assault and illegal detention. Meyer wasn't being a threat to the public and if they were going to monitor someone, how about that impatient sidebar?? This was not a child being taught what and what not to say. BJ is still keeping Bill CLinton in the public eye, theres no disturbing the peace. Skull and Bones needs more air time , perhaps we'll find that both nominees rigged the election.

[shade]

I 've noticed ( and with no insult at all to frosty ) that alot of people are calling this adult a 'kid'. Just because he's still a student doesn't mean he has less civil liberties. This looks like assault and aggravated assault and illegal detention. Meyer wasn't being a threat to the public and if they were going to monitor someone, how about that impatient sidebar?? This was not a child being taught what and what not to say. BJ is still keeping Bill CLinton in the public eye, theres no disturbing the peace. Skull and Bones needs more air time , perhaps we'll find that both nominees rigged the election.

Or that they did not care which of them won. The election was decided when Kerry was nominated - a frat brother was going to be president either way. Which one actually won did not matter. That is why he did not care to protest the vote.

[Just Spurplin]

So Frosty is that how it works? As long as you think you have done nothing wrong you are allowed to resist arrest as much as you want? If you see a cop flash his lights while your driving, if you think you've been obeying the laws you can just keep going?

It doesn't matter what you do. If you are being arrested, you let them arrest you. Look who started getting violent first. The security was calmly making him leave, and then he started freaking out.

He should not have been made to leave. No one has disagreed with that, so your paragraphs spent on that were pointless.

But he was resisting arrest, resisting arrest is always illegal unless you have solid reason to believe the arresting officers might end up killing you (which the video makes clear, they weren't doing anything harmful to him until he started fighting). I don't care what you have done, if a cop is arresting you, you obide by it. If you were in the right and they were in the wrong, that's the shit you bring up at court. It has ALWAYS been like that. If you struggle, you could end up hurting yourself, or you can end up hurting the officers.


And Frosty, are you even fucking a quarter serious with that last thought? They had him 100% under control, and then decided to tazer him, in a room full of people with cameras and everything, just for the fun of it?

[jn_powell]

So Frosty is that how it works? As long as you think you have done nothing wrong you are allowed to resist arrest as much as you want?
Think you have done nothing wrong? Think? I know, not think, that this kid did nothing wrong that would make it ok for him to be arrested. I consider his actions, as ridiculous as they looked, to be a valid act of civil disobedience.

EDIT: That being said, there is no proof they were going to arrest him. It looked like they may have just planned on escorting him from the building.

[nexushexus]

This is the problem with amerian society , one generation has not been taught citizens arrest procedures and so now we rely on law enforcement entirely to that job. Its as much your responsibility to call them on incorrect procedure. There was no reason to arrest him.
He was in the appropriate format of the presentation , he didn't interrupt Kerry 's address,

He had the microphone,
He was being aggressed by the side bar who alone is too stupid to honor his moments that he has to make his point.

At not time other than those transactions with 'the sidebar' did he mock , attack , disrupt , or endanger public members while speaking briskly but not offensively.
No, Do not let them arrest you for they are no less criminal for attempting so then the 9/11 hijackers.. With listening to just passivity you allow freedomswatch.org to help you watch freedom leave.... and then what freedom for whatever risk the troops ARE AT are they protecting when you help it leave???:mad:

[Just Spurplin]

Think you have done nothing wrong? Think? I know, not think, that this kid did nothing wrong that would make it ok for him to be arrested. I consider his actions, as ridiculous as they looked, to be a valid act of civil disobedience.

EDIT: That being said, there is no proof they were going to arrest him. It looked like they may have just planned on escorting him from the building.

Sorry, then if I KNOW I did nothing wrong I can start a high speed chase with the cops?

[nexushexus]

EScort him during his time at the microphone? No way , its not civil disobedience either. Had he interrupted Kerry's address , then MAYBE.. it was his turn at the mircrophone, he can say whatever he wants and he wasn't inciting others to acts that were uncivil.. NO SALE

[nexushexus]

THere is no similarity between your obsession to speed and this citizens' first amendment protection ( which he wouldn;t even need to say his piece during 'his turn) Your treating this like his question of corruption is incorrect. THat is also not true. A corrupt system is no longer the system to pledge allegiance whether or not it pretends to hold you rights or not. Meyers was doing nothing wrong, he did nothing wrong, the cops should not have touched him at all. , You- on the other hand might have been speeding but your willing to have a high speed chase to prove a nonpoint. AN incident just happened where the cop was harassing a driver for not bowing to the alleged infraction and the cop started harassing and threatening him with' what he could do as a cop" .. THe driver /citizen caught it on camera. You don't need a camera to prove your innocense.. when you do .. in two cases here... the cops are overstepping your rights and they are doing it pridefully. WElcome to Authoritarian America.. taxes now optional. Is that civil disobediance or am I calling them on their crap ???

[jn_powell]

Sorry, then if I KNOW I did nothing wrong I can start a high speed chase with the cops?
Yeah that is exactly what I was saying. You should be able to shoot cops too.:rolleyes:
EScort him during his time at the microphone? No way , its not civil disobedience either. Had he interrupted Kerry's address , then MAYBE.. it was his turn at the mircrophone, he can say whatever he wants and he wasn't inciting others to acts that were uncivil.. NO SALE
I was referring to his resistance to the police as civil disobedience, not his statements at the microphone. As a side note you might want to watch the double posts. They are against the rules. Just use the edit button if you have something else you want to reply to.

[YorkshireMan]

gotta get me one of them tazers, they look badass.

[nexushexus]

there's no valid arrest to be made here is what I 'm saying.
Whether its a cop or a jihadist on a plane, Andrew initiated questions that
confirm a very unhealthy poltical climate in this country as a course of why they are being asked. How does protect and serve even nearly come close to 1)someone who was about to be answered
2) indicating the difference of corruption through sex vs. lying about costly war and a frauded election
3)stopping the persons rights to speak during a portion of the venue that he
was courteous to the speaker even with these questions.

He didn't say f* the police , he didn't incite the crowd to maul the voting electoral college. Nothing about what he said was making uncivil material even if it was ANTI GOP and ANTI YALE greek. am I to guess that 's who heads the illuminati now? There's a group who holds power that was exposed and his beating is their charge , not the bill of rights. ITs sounding like every april 15 th is the Bill for Rights.:err:

[Frosty]

So Frosty is that how it works? As long as you think you have done nothing wrong you are allowed to resist arrest as much as you want? If you see a cop flash his lights while your driving, if you think you've been obeying the laws you can just keep going?

It doesn't matter what you do. If you are being arrested, you let them arrest you. Look who started getting violent first. The security was calmly making him leave, and then he started freaking out.

He should not have been made to leave. No one has disagreed with that, so your paragraphs spent on that were pointless.

But he was resisting arrest, resisting arrest is always illegal unless you have solid reason to believe the arresting officers might end up killing you (which the video makes clear, they weren't doing anything harmful to him until he started fighting). I don't care what you have done, if a cop is arresting you, you obide by it. If you were in the right and they were in the wrong, that's the shit you bring up at court. It has ALWAYS been like that. If you struggle, you could end up hurting yourself, or you can end up hurting the officers.

Speaking of useless paragraphs, notice that in my parenthesis I added that I know you shouldn't resist. I was speaking in the heat of the moment after watching the video and shed my thoughts that I'm glad he did resist and that I probably would have resisted as well. I never said you or anyone else shouldn't resist. The fact that he did resist resulted in more media coverage, which is the main reason as to why I supported it.

And Frosty, are you even fucking a quarter serious with that last thought? They had him 100% under control, and then decided to tazer him, in a room full of people with cameras and everything, just for the fun of it?

You'd think I'd be completely serious with a comment that suggested a bunch of cops tasered a kid for fun? Of course not. I did, however, feel it was definitely not needed.

[Just Spurplin]

The fact that he did resist resulted in more media coverage, which is the main reason as to why I supported it.

I think this would have gotten plenty of media coverage if he walked out screaming the stuff he did at the beginning of the video, that "Are you guys seeing this" shit. I was perfectly outraged right there.

But with all that resistance, instead of the media looking at a clear case of someones liberties being taken away, they have to look at a douche bag resisting arrest. Instead of everyone agreeing with "Wow, that is horribly wrong," there are arguments with "Well, he was resisting arrest..."

[MelL]

A story on Yahoo is saying the officers involved were campus police. Does anyone know if that's an error in reporting or do employees of universities really have that much authority?

[jn_powell]

A story on Yahoo is saying the officers involved were campus police. Does anyone know if that's an error in reporting or do employees of universities really have that much authority?
If it is a state run university those police are employees of the state and they do have full police powers on campus.

[PMUN NY]

God damn hippy student!

Watched the video and there appears to be a ripple of laughter when he is actually tazered. Think it says a lot that no-one went to help him even when he was pleading for help.

[Papero]

If I was that cop, I would of tazered him just to get him to shut the fuck up.

Indeed, I hate unintelligent people that try to speak up.

[MelL]

If it is a state run university those police are employees of the state and they do have full police powers on campus.

Ah, thank you for enlightening me. :D

[jn_powell]

Ah, thank you for enlightening me. :D
No problem. Note though that I can only speak for what I have seen here in Texas, but it should be the same everywhere.

[drahkcorjc]

This reminds me of that infamous UCLA tazer video a while back... In both cases, the two students were indeed being assholes, but the cops in both instances were way too trigger happy with their tazers.
This kid was on the ground. He had at least 5 cops holding him down. Cops can only use force in response to force. If the kid was swinging at them or threatening them in any way, then the tazer would've been justified.
But he wasn't swinging. He was being a dick and the cops were having a hard time putting cuffs on him. If it takes 5 cops to get the cuffs on, then it takes 5 cops to get the cuffs on.
The cops are never, ever supposed to raise the level of force being used against them. That's like shooting someone in the leg because he took a swing at you.

[shade]

Guys.

This happened on CONSTITUTION DAY at a UNIVERSITY to a JOURNALISM STUDENT.

That means it can happen anywhere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_shirt

These cops and many others are being turned into our own brown shirts.

[droogsteve]

This reminds me of that infamous UCLA tazer video a while back... In both cases, the two students were indeed being assholes, but the cops in both instances were way too trigger happy with their tazers.
This kid was on the ground. He had at least 5 cops holding him down. Cops can only use force in response to force. If the kid was swinging at them or threatening them in any way, then the tazer would've been justified.
But he wasn't swinging. He was being a dick and the cops were having a hard time putting cuffs on him. If it takes 5 cops to get the cuffs on, then it takes 5 cops to get the cuffs on.
The cops are never, ever supposed to raise the level of force being used against them. That's like shooting someone in the leg because he took a swing at you.


No, it is not.

People misunderstand what the Taser is for. Tasering someone during a struggle is not raising the level of force, it's ending the struggle before someone gets seriously injured. That's what it's made for, to minimize physical confrontations. People see them yelp and go down and it looks bad, but in fact it's relatively harmless. We were all required to be Tasered during the "Emotionally Disturbed Person" phase of my Paramedic training. It's definitely not pleasant, but I've been more sore after softball games than after Tasering. You are MUCH more likely to be seriously injured struggling with multiple officers than you are being Tasered. PDs train their officers to use the Taser rather than physically subdue suspects.

Modern devices like Tasers and pepper spray are a vast improvement over the tactics used up to the early 90's, when suspects were commonly killed by choke holds and crushing chest injuries while struggling with multiple officers. Since pepper spray obviously wasn't a viable option in the crowded auditorium, the officers were perfectly appropriate in Tasering the man (who was rather large) rather than pile on him and break his arm while he struggled against the cuffs.

Of course, most people have little knowledge of these things, so their first reaction is "OMG, they didn't have to Taser him!!".

As for whether the police should have been ordered to drag him out in the first place, that's a horse of a different color. The video only shows immediately before he was removed, not what he said before that. If he was ranting and disruptive, removing him was justified. If he was respectful and just asking difficult questions, then he shouldn't have been.


Either way, the cops weren't the ones who made that decision. They handled their part of it properly.

[shade]

Droog,
This video appears to show the whole thing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIYTJ75U4NU

It sounds like this guy is (was) even a John Kerry fan, too.

[drahkcorjc]

No, it is not.

People misunderstand what the Taser is for. Tasering someone during a struggle is not raising the level of force, it's ending the struggle before someone gets seriously injured. That's what it's made for, to minimize physical confrontations. People see them yelp and go down and it looks bad, but in fact it's relatively harmless. We were all required to be Tasered during the "Emotionally Disturbed Person" phase of my Paramedic training. It's definitely not pleasant, but I've been more sore after softball games than after Tasering. You are MUCH more likely to be seriously injured struggling with multiple officers than you are being Tasered. PDs train their officers to use the Taser rather than physically subdue suspects.

Modern devices like Tasers and pepper spray are a vast improvement over the tactics used up to the early 90's, when suspects were commonly killed by choke holds and crushing chest injuries while struggling with multiple officers. Since pepper spray obviously wasn't a viable option in the crowded auditorium, the officers were perfectly appropriate in Tasering the man (who was rather large) rather than pile on him and break his arm while he struggled against the cuffs.

Of course, most people have little knowledge of these things, so their first reaction is "OMG, they didn't have to Taser him!!".

As for whether the police should have been ordered to drag him out in the first place, that's a horse of a different color. The video only shows immediately before he was removed, not what he said before that. If he was ranting and disruptive, removing him was justified. If he was respectful and just asking difficult questions, then he shouldn't have been.


Either way, the cops weren't the ones who made that decision. They handled their part of it properly.

Normally I agree with most everything you say, but this time I don't. I don't know, maybe it varies from state to state and dept. to dept., but I was training to be a cop until I broke my back and couldn't do it anymore.
Even with the raising of force issue aside, you have to think about crowd control, too. Now, this audience just stood there and watched the whole thing. But what if they didn't? Seems to me that the cops, by using the tazer, instead of defusing the situation, they risked elevating it.
They were sitting on him. He couldn't do anything, except refuse to allow them to cuff him at that moment. So what? They should've let him bellyflop for a minute until he got tired, then cuffed him.
Boom. Over. That would've made that guy look like a complete asshole, and it would've prevented any insigators in the crowd from starting anything (if there happened to be any there.)

[jasoneric74]

He shouldnt have been arrested in the first place. What crime did he commit?

That crowd should have beaten those police.

some in the crowd were cheering when the cops pulled him away...

he was asking tough questions for kerry, and the crowd was full of supporters

they wanted the kid away from the mic too i bet.

[pudgmo]

Kid Tazered For Asking Kerry About Vote Suppression
I think that sentence is the bigger problem here. msnbc should be ashamed for linking the two.
The cops asked him to leave and he didn't. The guy wasn't there to ask a serious question. He was there to attack Kerry. If you think there is some conspiracy go out and prove it, but to attack the man in a public forum was out of line and he should have been asked to leave.
Did I misread the crowd when they were cheering right when the officers started taking him up the isle? I think they were cheering the cops. So am I

[BeeEmmmDeebahya]

Go read the two threads on this in the video section. We already proved why the police and venue people did nothing wrong.

Kinda dissapointed in the current events section right now...

[Just Spurplin]

Even with the raising of force issue aside, you have to think about crowd control, too. Now, this audience just stood there and watched the whole thing. But what if they didn't? Seems to me that the cops, by using the tazer, instead of defusing the situation, they risked elevating it.
And popping this guys shoulder out of place trying to get his hands behind his back wouldn't elevate the situation? What would make you more likely to riot? Police tazering a guy who is clearly resisting arrest, or police breaking the arm of a guy who is clearly resisting arrest?

Personally, I don't think either would make the kids riot, they all looked very calm in the video. But if I had to choose one, I'd say the extreme act of violence would be more likely.

They were sitting on him. He couldn't do anything, except refuse to allow them to cuff him at that moment. So what? They should've let him bellyflop for a minute until he got tired, then cuffed him.
Boom. Over. That would've made that guy look like a complete asshole, and it would've prevented any insigators in the crowd from starting anything (if there happened to be any there.)
Like I said, it is not easy to get someones hands behind their backs. He was a big dude. It doesn't take much energy to keep your arms in front of you.

And why should the police have to fight with the guy for minutes just to handcuff him, which would be MUCH more physically painful to the guy, at that moment and in the future (think how sore you would be from having your arms twisted and some guys knee in your back for 5 minutes), when they can tazer him, it ends all struggle, and the guy is back to normal in a few seconds.

[Buddha Bukakke!]

Sorry, then if I KNOW I did nothing wrong I can start a high speed chase with the cops?
Being pulled over and being arrested are 2 different things. If you are doing nothing to break the law, then you should not be arrested. I don't think he should have resisted, but he should have asked (loudly so everyone could hear) why he's being arrested.

[shade]

Being pulled over and being arrested are 2 different things. If you are doing nothing to break the law, then you should not be arrested. I don't think he should have resisted, but he should have asked (loudly so everyone could hear) why he's being arrested.

He did ask loudly.


And hello people... he was not bashing Kerry. If you listen to the whole thing it sounds more like he is a Kerry supporter confused about why Kerry did not contest the election. The book he is holding in his hand chronicles why Kerry actually should have won, and Kerry said he has read it and it was a good book.

[drahkcorjc]

And popping this guys shoulder out of place trying to get his hands behind his back wouldn't elevate the situation? What would make you more likely to riot? Police tazering a guy who is clearly resisting arrest, or police breaking the arm of a guy who is clearly resisting arrest?

Personally, I don't think either would make the kids riot, they all looked very calm in the video. But if I had to choose one, I'd say the extreme act of violence would be more likely.


Like I said, it is not easy to get someones hands behind their backs. He was a big dude. It doesn't take much energy to keep your arms in front of you.

And why should the police have to fight with the guy for minutes just to handcuff him, which would be MUCH more physically painful to the guy, at that moment and in the future (think how sore you would be from having your arms twisted and some guys knee in your back for 5 minutes), when they can tazer him, it ends all struggle, and the guy is back to normal in a few seconds.

You know, everyone keeps throwing in the broken arm scenario to argue my point... Where in the video did he break his arm?
OK, so it COULD happen - well, the chances are very, very slim, but using a tazer could stop his heart, too.

[Jay-Z]

Its the police's job to maintain peace and order. He commandeered the mic for the sole purpose of going on a rant, which was clearly not the purpose. They told him to ask his question and he kept going off. Who said he was even being arrested? its possible they would have just escorted him out of the building or detained him.

[Frosty]

I think focus should be steered away from the taser incident for the moment. It's obvious that he was tasered because he resisted arrest. We all gather that much. And that's, unfortunately, what the majority of the media and the viewers are focusing on.

The point here is that this guy shouldn't have been approached by police. His questions were justifiable and John Kerry interrupted and said he would even answer them! Why didn't the police at least wait until the guy was done with the microphone? At least then there wouldn't be such a mess out of the "arrest".

[Papero]

People see them yelp and go down and it looks bad, but in fact it's relatively harmless. .

That right there is the biggest problems, if he hadn't whined and cried like they were slicing and dicing him it wouldn't of been such a big problem. However he did whine and cry, his little girlfriends heard his cries and started overreacting with screams and "YOU CAN'T DO THAT! blah blah" escalates the whole problem.

His cries are also affecting a lot of peoples posts on this forum, they hear him cry as well as being surrounded by cops and this forum being flooded with cop haters at the moment I am not the least bit surprised by the amount of sympathy this boy is receiving .

I've been tazered by a friend and I would much rather be tazered then stub my big toe, less pain and it's over a lot faster. You aren't hopping around like a jack ass for hours after being tazered.


Its the police's job to maintain peace and order. He commandeered the mic for the sole purpose of going on a rant, which was clearly not the purpose. They told him to ask his question and he kept going off. Who said he was even being arrested? its possible they would have just escorted him out of the building or detained him.

I couldn't agree more, the cops were calm with their whole approach. They didn't bust in and pin him to the floor hitting him with a night stick. It most definitely would of been an escort outside, perhaps a talking to, don't do it again and he's free.

[OMFG FORUM RAGE]

heh im listening to Alex jones and hes saying: "the kid was one of my listeners most of them are"

[printithere]

He commandeered the mic for the sole purpose of going on a rant, which was clearly not the purpose. They told him to ask his question and he kept going off. .


Holy shit! Rants at a political forum! WHO THE FUCK WOULD DO SUCH A THING?!

I love all the anecdotal shit flying around here.

"THEY COULD HAVE BROKEN HIS ARM SO THEY DECIDED TO BE NICE AND TASER HIM!"

Or the could have told him he was under arrest and told him what he was under arrest for.

[Jay-Z]

Holy shit! Rants at a political forum! WHO THE FUCK WOULD DO SUCH A THING?!

I love all the anecdotal shit flying around here.

"THEY COULD HAVE BROKEN HIS ARM SO THEY DECIDED TO BE NICE AND TASER HIM!"

Or the could have told him he was under arrest and told him what he was under arrest for.
I don't appreciate your sarcastic emotional bs. Police aren't trained to reason with somebody who is resisting them. They are trained to subdue them. If they talked to everybody who was trying to resist arrest they would have a lot from people getting away and a lot more killed/injured cops. You don't even know all the facts on this. From what I read he took a mic when he wasn't supposed to and the organizers of the event didn't want him there.

EDIT: My mom just put on Bill O'Reilly. Its amazing how you can disagree so much with somebody with the same stance as you.

[Fossil]

From what I read he took a mic when he wasn't supposed to and the organizers of the event didn't want him there.

I'd say that, judging by the video I saw on Youtube, it was his turn to speak. Besides, there's no way that he would have been allowed to talk for a minute if he had just grabbed a mic.

I don't blame the police for what happened, although I don't think the student should have been removed in the first place. He didn't do anything wrong. It looked like they only started to remove him after that lady in the red dress, who kept interrupting him, told them to. She was probably some minor university official worried that she might lose her job after that kid embarrassed the hell out of Kerry.

edit: looks like it was actually the guy next to her that gave the signal to remove the kid.

[Jay-Z]

I'd say that, judging by the video I saw on Youtube, it was his turn to speak. Besides, there's no way that he would have been allowed to talk for a minute if he had just grabbed a mic.
You really can't base much on one video that cuts in suddenly.

[Just Spurplin]

The point here is that this guy shouldn't have been approached by police. His questions were justifiable and John Kerry interrupted and said he would even answer them! Why didn't the police at least wait until the guy was done with the microphone? At least then there wouldn't be such a mess out of the "arrest".

Ya know I completely agreed with you on this case, that the kid shouldn't have been escorted out, untill I read this Yahoo article.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070918/ap_on_re_us/student_tasered

Meyer refused to leave the microphone after his allotted time was up, police said. He had asked Kerry about impeaching President Bush, why he didn't challenge the 2004 election results and whether he and Bush were members of the secret society Skull and Bones at Yale University.

After Meyer repeatedly and loudly refused to walk away, two officers took him by the arms. Kerry can be heard saying, "That's all right, let me answer his question."

It is no longer a case of his freedom of speech being taken away. Everyone has a time to talk. His time was up. He refused to leave. No freedoms being taken away here.

The article also brings up quite a few things that make you question his motivations.

Meyer, a senior telecommunications major from the Fort Lauderdale suburb of Weston, has a Web site featuring several homemade videos. In one, he stands in a street with a sign that says "Harry Dies" after the latest Harry Potter book was released. In another, he acts like a drunk in a bar while trying to pick up a man dressed in drag.



...organizers disputed that and said his microphone was cut off after he used a sexually explicit term.



Just before Monday's scuffle started, Meyer asked a woman to tape his exchange with Kerry. One officer said the woman was "there to film him" and that Meyer asked, "Are you taping this? Do you have this? You ready?" before beginning his question.



An officer, however, said in the police report that Meyer's "demeanor completely changed once the cameras were not in sight" and that he was "laughing" and "lighthearted" on the way to jail.

Maybe this kid just wanted a cool new video for his website. He knew the cameras were rolling, would of made for a perfect time for him to resist arrest and cause a scene.

[Phat]

You really can't base much on one video that cuts in suddenly.

I was there. Kerry gave a long speech, and there was a Q&A session afterwards for the students. This kid waited his turn in line, and was last to ask a question. He didn't jump in and "commandeer" the mic like said previously.

Sure, his questions were a bit off topic and presumptuous, but even as Kerry said "no, stop, I'll answer his question," the cops continued to drag him out. Meyer also clearly says, as he's being pinned down, "just let me go and I'll leave."

And to the poster who said that if an arm is in front of a person it's nearly impossible to pull it behind their back, both of Meyer's arms were behind his back before he was tased, FYI.

In the lobby of the auditorium, the police told him he was being arrested initially for "inciting a riot" (a third-degree felony) and also for resisting arrest. I did not see him inciting any riot before the police stepped in and grabbed his arms. The fact that he was told he was arrested for inciting a riot debunks any theories that the police were just initially trying to "escort him out."

Sure, he didn't handle himself as calmly as possible about the situation, but the fact remains that he was asking the questions everyone is afraid to ask but wants to. AND KERRY WAS WILLING TO ANSWER!

[FuriousFever]

I think focus should be steered away from the taser incident for the moment. It's obvious that he was tasered because he resisted arrest. We all gather that much. And that's, unfortunately, what the majority of the media and the viewers are focusing on.

The point here is that this guy shouldn't have been approached by police. His questions were justifiable and John Kerry interrupted and said he would even answer them! Why didn't the police at least wait until the guy was done with the microphone? At least then there wouldn't be such a mess out of the "arrest".

I saw a comment from a guy from the rally. It seems this guy in blue was around the area trying to get in. The police were already following him around because he was making a little trouble. I was surprised Kerry even answered some of his questions.

If you think this is a violation of free speech, you are wrong. He is being arresting for inciting a riot. His actions and his resistance are the reason for his arrest, not for "asking a question".

[Boomer]

PL 205.30 Resisting arrest: A person is guilty of resisting arrest when he intentionally prevents or attempts to prevent a police officer or peace officer from effecting an authorized arrest of himself or another person.

My best advice, don't resist when they put the cuffs on you, even if you think it's unjustified. You can always come back tomorrow and sue their asses off in court. While I think the arrest was unlawful, the guy took the wrong approach to fight it.

[Jay-Z]

I was there. Kerry gave a long speech, and there was a Q&A session afterwards for the students. This kid waited his turn in line, and was last to ask a question. He didn't jump in and "commandeer" the mic like said previously.

Sure, his questions were a bit off topic and presumptuous, but even as Kerry said "no, stop, I'll answer his question," the cops continued to drag him out. Meyer also clearly says, as he's being pinned down, "just let me go and I'll leave."

And to the poster who said that if an arm is in front of a person it's nearly impossible to pull it behind their back, both of Meyer's arms were behind his back before he was tased, FYI.

In the lobby of the auditorium, the police told him he was being arrested initially for "inciting a riot" (a third-degree felony) and also for resisting arrest. I did not see him inciting any riot before the police stepped in and grabbed his arms. The fact that he was told he was arrested for inciting a riot debunks any theories that the police were just initially trying to "escort him out."

Sure, he didn't handle himself as calmly as possible about the situation, but the fact remains that he was asking the questions everyone is afraid to ask but wants to. AND KERRY WAS WILLING TO ANSWER!
There is a lot of misinformation out on this because I have heard several versions at this point. I guess I'll hold my judgement for now.

[BeeEmmmDeebahya]

Let me run this down for you upset folk....


Any reason as to why they wanted him to stop is almost irrelevant

He was asked to stop, he refused

They were going to escort him out (very unlikely they would arrest him at this point), he resisted

They then arrest him and he of course, resists

He gets tazed to immediately defuse the situation and remove him quickly (obviously worked) as the suspect AND the officers saftey could be very quickly put in jepordy (due to struggling injuries and crowd risk)



And yes, an arm break is very likely with 4 people trying to pull it back

What do you guys not understand?

[Phat]

There is a lot of misinformation out on this because I have heard several versions at this point. I guess I'll hold my judgement for now.

90% of my post was information gathered from video evidence. There's several videos of the event, and some show what happens in the lobby afterward. Check it out, the police officer clearly tells him he's under arrest for inciting a riot, no misinformation there; it's straight from the horse's mouth.



He was asked to stop, he refused



He was never asked to stop. The first time he was approached, the woman officer told him he had to ask a question, and he said he was getting to it, but giving the audience a preface to his question. They never asked him to stop, they simply cut the mic then immediately grabbed him.

[BeeEmmmDeebahya]

He was never asked to stop. The first time he was approached, the woman officer told him he had to ask a question, and he said he was getting to it, but giving the audience a preface to his question. They never asked him to stop, they simply cut the mic then immediately grabbed him.

Right, asked to stop his 'line of questioning' so to speak. He refused in an agrresive way. Good reason to escort him out.

[Phat]

Right, asked to stop his 'line of questioning' so to speak. He refused in an agrresive way. Good reason to escort him out.

You need to understand, a majority of people would have been fine with it if they cut the mic and that was that. The fact that they cut the mic, then forcefully attempted to remove him from the building is what got people worked up. There was no reason to escort him out for asking a couple hardball questions. Then the police having the balls to tell him he's arrested for inciting a riot is just ridiculous.

If you watch the video, a man in a suit standing by the police is the one calling all the shots. He whispers to the officers before each incident, and gives the cut-off motion to the sound guy once the Skull and Bones topic is brought up.
For that, I blame this man for most of the events that happened rather than the officers acting as his puppets.


Meyer, a senior telecommunications major from the Fort Lauderdale suburb of Weston, has a Web site featuring several homemade videos. In one, he stands in a street with a sign that says "Harry Dies" after the latest Harry Potter book was released. In another, he acts like a drunk in a bar while trying to pick up a man dressed in drag.

Couldn't find the HP video, but this is the drunk video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sh4mJFkcg0&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Etheandrewmeyer%2Ecom%2Fske tches%2Easp

The article makes it seem like he was trying to pick up an actual cross-dresser when it's really just a group of friends fucking around making videos...
When I first read that article, my opinion changed against Meyer. When I saw the video, and I realized it wasn't a public event of humility like the article suggests, it kind of weakens the argument that he was doing this for attention.

[MashTorrance]

The dude resisted arrest, that's obvious. However, tazing him was completely unecessary. There were like 9 security officers trying to restrain him. I remember when this one dude high on PCP came into my highschool and started taking his clothes off, screaming about how he thought he was at the post office lol. It took three cops to wrestle him to the ground and put him in cuffs. This was a huge black man btw. No tazers, pepper spray, nothing. Just good 'ol fashioned man power. If three cops can take down a raging drug addict then I would hope a team of 5+ would be able to restrain a college student lol.

[Phat]

The dude resisted arrest, that's obvious. However, tazing him was completely unecessary. There were like 9 security officers trying to restrain him. I remember when this one dude high on PCP came into my highschool and started taking his clothes off, screaming about how he thought he was at the post office lol. It took three cops to wrestle him to the ground and put him in cuffs. This was a huge black man btw. No tazers, pepper spray, nothing. Just good 'ol fashioned man power. If three cops can take down a raging drug addict then I would hope a team of 5+ would be able to restrain a college student lol.

Especially when he's already on the ground lying on his stomach with his arms behind his back...

[BeeEmmmDeebahya]

You need to understand, a majority of people would have been fine with it if they cut the mic and that was that. The fact that they cut the mic, then forcefully attempted to remove him from the building is what got people worked up. There was no reason to escort him out for asking a couple hardball questions. Then the police having the balls to tell him he's arrested for inciting a riot is just ridiculous.

If you watch the video, a man in a suit standing by the police is the one calling all the shots. He whispers to the officers before each incident, and gives the cut-off motion to the sound guy once the Skull and Bones topic is brought up.
For that, I blame this man for most of the events that happened rather than the officers acting as his puppets.



What about the stuff he did before they cut the mic? In their opinion he was being disruptive, and their opinion is just enough to escort him out.

At least you have came to the conclusion about the officers, because I was going to mention that same thing. (not trying to be an ass to you)

[Phat]

What about the stuff he did before they cut the mic? In their opinion he was being disruptive, and their opinion is just enough to escort him out.

At least you have came to the conclusion about the officers, because I was going to mention that same thing. (not trying to be an ass to you)

He didn't do any "stuff." He informed the audience of the events pertaining to his questions, asked his questions, and Kerry obliged to answer them. He was the last person to ask questions, so he wasn't stealing any time from anyone else, and Kerry didn't seem to mind that he had three questions rather than one, so what's the problem?

[BeeEmmmDeebahya]

He didn't do any "stuff." He informed the audience of the events pertaining to his questions, asked his questions, and Kerry obliged to answer them. He was the last person to ask questions, so he wasn't stealing any time from anyone else, and Kerry didn't seem to mind that he had three questions rather than one, so what's the problem?

Well, I have heard about his actions before he took the stand. It could have played a part. His tone may also. Maybe he asked the questions incorrectly occording to the rules.

What it really comes down to is if they deemed him disruptive, then there is no wrong in their actions.

[VoltiSubito]

My best advice, don't resist when they put the cuffs on you, even if you think it's unjustified. You can always come back tomorrow and sue their asses off in court. While I think the arrest was unlawful, the guy took the wrong approach to fight it.

Yeah, you should never resist arrest. You will not win. You'll end up with more charges against you and you could possibly be seriously hurt.

He could of loudly asked "Why am I being arrested?" as they escorted him out in handcuffs and the video would still be on youtube, and the freedom of speech debate would still be valid.

[Shameonyou]

Comon, lets be real here. These are the days after the VT massacre. The kid was acting erratic and strange (I thought he was drunk.), ADDRESSING a U.S. Congressman. The police weren't detaining him for what he was saying, they were escorting him out because he was acting like a LUNATIC. You can't act that way at a big lecture like that and expect the authorities to sit there and let you rant in a weird way.

[_Joe]

Arrested? Uncalled for. Kerry was actually answering the question, I don't know why the security showed up. He even said he would answer the question.

Tazered? Called for. If you resist arrest thats what happens.

I think because he was saying "blowjob" and started accusing Kerry of being in the Skulls, pretty ridiculous claims. They were just going to lead him out of the auditorium, and he practically tried to run away. I dunno, I still think it would be easier to just pull his arm back and cuff him rather than tazer him first to get it done.

[Phat]

Comon, lets be real here. These are the days after the VT massacre. The kid was acting erratic and strange (I thought he was drunk.), ADDRESSING a U.S. Congressman. The police weren't detaining him for what he was saying, they were escorting him out because he was acting like a LUNATIC. You can't act that way at a big lecture like that and expect the authorities to sit there and let you rant in a weird way.

The police never even patted him down for weapons. They knew he wasn't a threat, and just being a bit obnoxious. I've seen worse behavior from congressmen speaking for different bills to be passed.

[Just Spurplin]

The police never even patted him down for weapons. They knew he wasn't a threat, and just being a bit obnoxious. I've seen worse behavior from congressmen speaking for different bills to be passed.

At what point were they supposed to pat him down for weapons? They went from calmly escorting him out of the building to dealing with him acting like a moron, throwing his arms around, trying to rip free of the police. They weren't arresting him until he started resisting? What do you expect them to do? "Ok, stop resisting for 10 seconds so we can figure out if your a threat, then you can go right back to acting like an asshole and we will continue struggling with you."

[Phat]

At what point were they supposed to pat him down for weapons? They went from calmly escorting him out of the building to dealing with him acting like a moron, throwing his arms around, trying to rip free of the police. They weren't arresting him until he started resisting? What do you expect them to do? "Ok, stop resisting for 10 seconds so we can figure out if your a threat, then you can go right back to acting like an asshole and we will continue struggling with you."

They weren't supposed to pat him down for weapons. That's what I was getting at. The person I quoted references Meyer's actions to that of a mass murderer at VT which has no relevance to this situation. You'd think if the police thought he was a threat because of what happened at VT, they would pat him down for weapons immediately, which obviously didn't happen. I was just trying to show that shameonyou's rationalization of the officers' actions is bogus.

[bobscott]

he wasn't tazed for asking John Kerry a question.

He was going to be escorted out of the building for being loud and obnoxious. Which in my opinion was overreacting, but he was tazed because he was resisting the police. THAT is procedure.

[Phat]

he wasn't tazed for asking John Kerry a question.

He was going to be escorted out of the building for being loud and obnoxious. Which in my opinion was overreacting, but he was tazed because he was resisting the police. THAT is procedure.

First of all, this has already been established in previous posts.
Secondly, it was not necessary for the officer to use the taser when both of Meyer's arms were already behind his back and they nearly had him in handcuffs.

[shade]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giZspLXXBPs

This video shows he was on the ground on his stomach with his arms behind his back and possibly already handcuffed while dogpiled with cops - before he was tasered.

It looks like he was relatively calm and cooperating until bubba (the big fat cop) put his weight on him and he started to freak out.

[BeeEmmmDeebahya]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giZspLXXBPs

This video shows he was on the ground on his stomach with his arms behind his back and possibly already handcuffed while dogpiled with cops - before he was tasered.

It looks like he was relatively calm and cooperating until bubba (the big fat cop) put his weight on him and he started to freak out.

#1 He was continuing to resist, he was not arrested at that time because they werent able to get his arm.

#2 He was not even remotely calm as he continued to be very verbal and resisted the entire time.

#3 They had trouble getting his other hand cuffed and he continued to escalate the situation. Listen to him ask for the crowds help.

#4 He was given warnings..."stop resisting or you're gonna get tazed" can be clearly heard.

You can't resist and fail to follow the officers orders and then continue to cry and complain. He asked for it.

[printithere]

Any reason as to why they wanted him to stop is almost irrelevant


I disagree. If he had been acting out of line, I could see why they wanted him to stop. But he wasn't. Kerry even said he would answer. With this in mind, there was no reason for him stopping, which also means there was no reason for the arrest and taser.

Once the big black cop got on top of him I think he started to panic. Either way, it would be extremely hard to control yourself when 9 officers have you pinned down and you have no idea why you are being arrested. Looks like he started to panic. Once the taser came out, he even said "Dont taze me bro." I am pretty sure he complied after they whipped that out.

[BeeEmmmDeebahya]

He didn't comply until they tazed him, so your whole argument is moot.

[Bergs]

he wasn't tazed for asking John Kerry a question.

He was going to be escorted out of the building for being loud and obnoxious. Which in my opinion was overreacting, but he was tazed because he was resisting the police. THAT is procedure.

The fact that he was tazed is largely irrelevant. He never should have been escorted from the podium to begin with.

[BeeEmmmDeebahya]

The fact that he was tazed is largely irrelevant. He never should have been escorted from the podium to begin with.

So you want the guy who told the cops to escort him out in trouble? It is their choice who can and cannot speak. It is also their choice if they want someone removed because THEIR opinion is that this guy was disruptive.

[Bergs]

So you want the guy who told the cops to escort him out in trouble? It is their choice who can and cannot speak. It is also their choice if they want someone removed because THEIR opinion is that this guy was disruptive.

Whoever decided to remove him, whether it was an administrator or the police's own volition, should be held accountable. It is simply not their choice. The nature of the event makes it a public forum. It is Constitution Day at a town hall style meeting at a public university in which a journalism student is asking questions of a major national politician. Their opinion isnt worth jack shit. The Constitution protects his right to speak, indeed it protects his right to speak disruptively, especially when the floor is his.

[BeeEmmmDeebahya]

Whoever decided to remove him, whether it was an administrator or the police's own volition, should be held accountable. It is simply not their choice. The nature of the event makes it a public forum. It is Constitution Day at a town hall style meeting at a public university in which a journalism student is asking questions of a major national politician. Their opinion isnt worth jack shit. The Constitution protects his right to speak, indeed it protects his right to speak disruptively, especially when the floor is his.

You can't go to something like that and act that way. End of story.

[Bergs]

No, actually you can. Its called freedom of speech and the fact that it is so disrespected nowadays is why this country is rapidly descending into fascism, a fascism which you clearly represent. Ron Paul would be ashamed of you.

[BeeEmmmDeebahya]

No, actually you can. Its called freedom of speech and the fact that it is so disrespected nowadays is why this country is rapidly descending into fascism, a fascism which you clearly represent. Ron Paul would be ashamed of you.

So you can cause a disturbance, not abide by the rules of the venue, and try to get the crowd hyped up into your problem and this is all perfectly fine? You can't do whatever you want under freedom of speech, when will you idiots figure this out?

[Bergs]

So you can cause a disturbance, not abide by the rules of the venue, and try to get the crowd hyped up into your problem and this is all perfectly fine? You can't do whatever you want under freedom of speech, when will you idiots figure this out?

As I already said, PUBLIC FORUM. He had the podium. He can speak about what he wants. I'm not saying he shouldnt have been tasered, I'm saying he never should have been fucking touched. Once that happened I cant blame the police for following through with procedure. BTW, personal attacks are pathetic.

[camjoe87]

The guy was a little wacko, but he definately didn't deserve the treatment he got.

Of course you can't do whatever you want under the protection of the first amendment, that's not the problem. The problem is he SHOUDLVE been able to say what he had to say without getting thrown out. I'm not saying he could do it, but he should've been able to.

[BeeEmmmDeebahya]

As I already said, PUBLIC FORUM. He had the podium. BTW, personal attacks are pathetic.

IT DOESNT MATTER IF IT WAS PUBLIC

YOU CANT DO WHATEVER YOU WANT UNDER FREEDOM OF SPEECH

I honestly would like to know how hard this is to understand. Please, tell me because I can't imagine.

Hell, you can forgive him for his emotional and aggressive rant, his breaking of the venues rules, but the second he cussed, bye-bye freedom of speech!

And did you really just call yourself pathetic?

[BeeEmmmDeebahya]

The guy was a little wacko, but he definately didn't deserve the treatment he got.

Of course you can't do whatever you want under the protection of the first amendment, that's not the problem. The problem is he SHOUDLVE been able to say what he had to say without getting thrown out. I'm not saying he could do it, but he should've been able to.

Finally, someone can understand! If you want to debate the opinion on whether they should have let him talk, that is one thing, but to debate the facts of them being able to throw him out, YOU ARE WRONG.

[shade]

You can't go to something like that and act that way. End of story.

You seem quite fascist to be a Ron Paul supporter... but I guess I will take any vote I can get.

[whocares]

What he said was something that could cause disturbance? No.
Did he cuss? Probably, not something dangerous, though.

I don't see how what he did was wrong.

[Shameless]

And did you really just call yourself pathetic?

You are playing a dangerous game there with Bergs. I'd bail and regroup if I were you.

[BeeEmmmDeebahya]

You are playing a dangerous game there with Bergs. I'd bail and regroup if I were you.

I must apologize.....after repeating myself over and over to like 100 different people by now, it wears you thin. Instead of spending the time to explain it and what-not, I have reduced myself... because to be honest, it gets very tiring and old quickly.... especially when you take the time to think something out and explain it the way it appears in head and then you get met with "America is crap" and "fuck the police" etc. It makes you think "what is even the damn point in trying"

However, I still stand by calling that socratez guy a moron, he really is!

[BeeEmmmDeebahya]

Double post, I know...but this is a very interesting read and may help people understand what happend and why the officers did what they did.

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2007/images/09/18/offense.report.072274.pdf

[DaDigits]

I miss the days before the tazer when cops had night sticks. At least if it was a night stick it would account for his pussy screams of "Ow ow ow ow". He was calmly asked to leave he refused so the officers tried to escort him out and he resisted so they put him under arrest, the officers can't control him with just cuffs so they taz his sorry ass to get him into the damn patrol car. I don't feel sorry for the loser who did this all to get attention in my opinion. I mean come on I know tasers hurt but not that fucking much.

[jn_powell]

So you can cause a disturbance, not abide by the rules of the venue, and try to get the crowd hyped up into your problem and this is all perfectly fine?
Thank god Rosa Parks did exactly that.:rolleyes:

[Mr.SelfDestruct]

The thread title is misleading. It should read:

Kid tazered for resisting police officers.

[Socratez]

I like this article better:

http://www.newstarget.com/022041.html

There are presidents set today in your coutry that say not only is it every americans right to resit false arest, but it is also your "duty" as an american to resist false arrest.

If your countrys for-fathers saw what was happening today... they would puke.

[Vilkata]

The people that are saying that he was overstepping his rights to free speech are exactly the reason america is going downhill. The moment you start putting limitations on what is acceptable in a PUBLIC FORUM you are headed down a horrible path. He said nothing that should have been offensive; he did not say anything to inspire hatred or violence of any kind. His phrasing, though possibly offensive to some, is an expression of his views and as little as some may like it was not illegal in any fashion and certainly does not constitute a removal of his right to free speech, again in a public forum. Thus his removal was wrong and injust, added to the fact that kerry was willing to answer. To this point I think we all have to agree.

Past that point, as the removal itself was wrong, it was the proper move to fight it. going with it would have garnered no attention(we probably wouldnt even have found out about it or been this interested) thus bringing to light the overstepping of power by our police. Had he not fought it, there is far less attention, and the police are empowered and emboldened to put a halt to further supress free speech. The tazering as well, though fitting in the context, was in a context that should never have happened and therefore was wrong.

The police do not, or at least should not, have the authority to halt any line of reasoning based only on the fact that it is not in line with theirs, especially in a public discussion forum where all involved parties are ok with it. as for the rest of the audience, I am literally horrified of their complete lack of support for this man. When the 'official' views of the government become unquestionable to the point where the police can physically halt someone from asking a legitimate question, you have become a police state.

[Shameless]

Thank god Rosa Parks did exactly that.:rolleyes:

A slightly different situation, that...:err:

[jn_powell]

A slightly different situation, that...:err:
How so? I would think our overall right to free speech would be just as important as a black woman's right to sit where she wanted to on a bus. Our rights our slowly but surely being taken away piece by piece and I see no problem with trying to bring it to people's attention.

[Vilkata]

A slightly different situation, that...:err:

Not all that different. Parks was fighting against a group claiming to provide equality(a pillar of democracy) while stiffling her and others like her.

This man is questioning a group claiming to provide freedom of speech(a pillar of democracy) and the police blantantly stiffled him in a manner that is a big warning to others like him.

[Shameless]

Wait just a second here. Let's look at what this kid did...

(According to CNN)
When he started asking his question, organizers had already cut off questioning. The first thing he said was "You will take my question because I have been listening to your crap for two hours", then rambled on for a minute and a half asking Kerry multiple questions "yelling as loud as he could" before being asked to relinquish the mic for "being disruptive". He refused and police moved in to get him out of there. And as soon as they did, he resisted, trying to break free, fighting with a number of them until they warned him that they would taser him if he didn't quit. He didn't and they tased.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/19/student.tasered/index.html?iref=newssearch

You are right that this is a "public forum", but even public forums need to have rules. This kid obviously broke a number of them, then resisted the efforts of organizers and police to get him to leave.

I think that you think that because this is a public forum you should be able to ask Kerry anything you want at any time. So that means the kid could have said "Hey Kerry, you stupid fuck, you piece of shit cocksucker fuck, how about you suck my fucking dick douche fuck..." and that would be okay.

[printithere]

He didn't comply until they tazed him, so your whole argument is moot.

Actually sir, he was in cuffs when they tasered him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lg9qTD6Z7zE mentioned in the interview

[Phat]

Actually sir, he was in cuffs when they tasered him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lg9qTD6Z7zE mentioned in the interview

I'm on the side of Andrew Meyer, but I have to tell you, he only had one cuff on his right wrist and they couldn't bring his left arm down to cuff it so they tased him. Of course, it's pretty ridiculous that five cops couldn't manage to bring his arm that was already behind his back down to the cuffs.

I could care less that he got tased, even though it's a bit ridiculous, they just couldn't manage to bring his hand down, so they had to use the assistance of the taser. Yes, the tasing was excessive, but the real issue is being overshadowed by the tasing. He was oppressed of his rights by ACCENT's coordinator who told the cops to arrest him. Of course, this brings a whole other question as to why police officers were taking orders from a civilian.

[DaDigits]

I'm on the side of Andrew Meyer, but I have to tell you, he only had one cuff on his right wrist and they couldn't bring his left arm down to cuff it so they tased him. Of course, it's pretty ridiculous that five cops couldn't manage to bring his arm that was already behind his back down to the cuffs.

I could care less that he got tased, even though it's a bit ridiculous, they just couldn't manage to bring his hand down, so they had to use the assistance of the taser. Yes, the tasing was excessive, but the real issue is being overshadowed by the tasing. He was oppressed of his rights by ACCENT's coordinator who told the cops to arrest him. Of course, this brings a whole other question as to why police officers were taking orders from a civilian.

How did they oppress his rights? They enforced theres. It was a private party that organized the event and questioning had already ended. They had every right to ask him to leave.

[Zardozus]

I'm with Tucker Carlson on this... the Cops should be ashamed of themselves and we ought to be concerned that a Tazer is going from a serious weapon of 'last resort' and becoming more and more acceptable as a 'cattle prod' for when you 'won't listen'.
Shame on the cops.

*usually I enjoy seeing college activist types getting tazered but even I gotta say this was bad.

[Phat]

How did they oppress his rights? They enforced theres. It was a private party that organized the event and questioning had already ended. They had every right to ask him to leave.

It is not private. ACCENT is a public group funded by the Student Government of a public university. He had the right to be there and not be silenced of his questions and kicked out.

[Just Spurplin]

It is not private. ACCENT is a public group funded by the Student Government of a public university. He had the right to be there and not be silenced of his questions and kicked out.

He had the right to ask his question within the time limit given. He did not have the right to go over that time limit.

[DaDigits]

It is not private. ACCENT is a public group funded by the Student Government of a public university. He had the right to be there and not be silenced of his questions and kicked out.

He had a chance to ask questions at the time questions were being taken. At that time questioning had ended therefore he had NO right to do that and the public university has every right to stop him. If he felt that his rights were being stepped on then he should have taken the appropriate action and filed a complaint with the universities administration. Instead he tried to fight the law and the law won, rightfully so in my opinion.

[darkesthorizon]

Fuck this Douche, he tried to make a Bit, and it didn't go so well. That's what he gets.

[daisychic]

as for this kid. I agree that he was a little out of line, getting all riled up, but the police had no right to touch him or tazer him. He even says that if they let him go he will walk out of there. but they didnt. See nowadays cops overuse their athority and they do this because they get away with it, They get paid time off.. oh wow what a punishment.... its bull. Now they (cops) are making up false charges to place on people, they use unreasonable force, and all that shit...... goodbye free world..... hello police state....

[Bergs]

Hell, you can forgive him for his emotional and aggressive rant, his breaking of the venues rules, but the second he cussed, bye-bye freedom of speech!

CUSSING??!!?? Cussing negates freedom of speech? Wow I had no idea. Hell' even if you wanted to label cussing as "bad speech," the First Amendment informs us that the antidote for bad speech is good speech, an in any event MORE speech.

How did they oppress his rights? They enforced theres. It was a private party that organized the event and questioning had already ended. They had every right to ask him to leave.

When a private party (which is debatable, how can you say any group at a state university is a private party?) creates a situation which is acting as a defacto public forum, it is by law treated as a public forum.

[HubbleBubble]

SO FUCKING WHAT if the guy asked Kerry about Skull and Bones. People should be able to ask whatever the hell they want to ask and they should expect an honest answer.

Those are the sort of questions that should be asked. Why the hell were both Bush and Kerry Skull and Bones members and running against each other for president? What are the odds of 2 Skull and Bones members reaching such high levels of power and actually running head to head for the presidency? Especially whenever Skull and Bones only accepts like 15 members A YEAR. What are the odds?

You tell me that, and then tell me why this poor sucker was arrested for asking the question, whenever we supposedly live in a free country. Which is bullshit.. but still, as long as our leaders keep saying it's a free country then atleast we should keep pretending like it is. Atleast we can still pretend, afterall.

[Just Spurplin]

SO FUCKING WHAT if the guy asked Kerry about Skull and Bones. People should be able to ask whatever the hell they want to ask and they should expect an honest answer.

Those are the sort of questions that should be asked. Why the hell were both Bush and Kerry Skull and Bones members and running against each other for president? What are the odds of 2 Skull and Bones members reaching such high levels of power and actually running head to head for the presidency? Especially whenever Skull and Bones only accepts like 15 members A YEAR. What are the odds?

You tell me that, and then tell me why this poor sucker was arrested for asking the question, whenever we supposedly live in a free country. Which is bullshit.. but still, as long as our leaders keep saying it's a free country then atleast we should keep pretending like it is. Atleast we can still pretend, afterall.
Can you at least read the thread, or maybe even a couple of the articles. This is supposed to be a section for intelligent discussion, and those are hard to carry when you make zero effort to inform yourself of the correct details.

He wasn't arrested for asking about Skull and Bones. His time was LONG over by the time he finally got to the question. Before that it was a long, pointless rant. After his time expired, they told him to get off the mic and leave. He refused, and kept on talking. They then had to escort him out of the building because he refused to follow the rules. While being escorted out he began resisting. Once he started resisting he went from just breaking the rules and being escorted out to breaking the law and being placed under arrest. He continued to resist, which is why he was tazered. That is exactly what tazers are for, to control people who are resisting arrest.

[BeeEmmmDeebahya]

CUSSING??!!?? Cussing negates freedom of speech? Wow I had no idea. Hell' even if you wanted to label cussing as "bad speech," the First Amendment informs us that the antidote for bad speech is good speech, an in any event MORE speech.


Sorry dude, this debate is already pretty much over, the facts have been presented, and he was wrong.

[Bergs]

Sorry dude, this debate is already pretty much over, the facts have been presented, and he was wrong.

Breaking the rules of the forum, maybe you can say he was wrong. The debate over whether cussing should not be protected speech is never over. To think that the government may punish a person for what they deem bad language is a frightening proposition, and on that argument, you are dead wrong.

[Shameless]

Breaking the rules of the forum, maybe you can say he was wrong.

No, no "maybe's" here. He blatantly broke the venue's rules and so he was escorted out (after being asked to leave, etc, read my summary above). When he fought back against the cops, he was tazed. That's life, the kid made the decision to fight back, it's 100% his fault he was tazed.

I think what freaks people out the most is that it was cops who escorted him out, and not security (oh noes, it's big brother waiting to take him away!!). But realize they were on hand probably because John Kerry was there, and they wouldn't be there usually.

[BeeEmmmDeebahya]

Breaking the rules of the forum, maybe you can say he was wrong. The debate over whether cussing should not be protected speech is never over. To think that the government may punish a person for what they deem bad language is a frightening proposition, and on that argument, you are dead wrong.

Not everyone wants to hear bad language, thats why its banned on tv. I am not a sensitive person btw and I constantly offend people IRL. I can see others point of view, however.