The Good, the Bad and the Police

[MurdocUSA]

I’ve been trolling around these boards for some time now and I have noticed that along with god, politics, Iraq, racism and the World Trade Center theories, Police Officers are among the top discussed subjects here. I also see a lot of conflicting views on what a Law Enforcement Official is and what his or her job duties should consist of. Without trying to spark any kind of real debate I decided that a poll would best give me a feel of how individuals here feel about the Police. So please vote

[Father Max]

Hope piggy can run.

[pudgmo]

2 & 4
10 little piggies

[Papero]

Wtf, I need to vote for two.

Police are a necessity for society to maintain itself and most are good with a fraction of whom abuse their power.

[Papero]

Most cops are the kind of people who got beat up a lot in school, and decided they wanted a career where they would be granted power to treat others as 2nd class citizens, and have the legal authority to taser and kill anyone who disobeys.

Wow, that's a lie. The people you're talking about would be the small fraction part of this poll.

The only people with your opinion are the people who got drunk before school, failed most classes and graduated by the skin of their teeth.

I can only hope you're simply trolling, you've got your bait.


I did not just double post, other post was deleted, this post stands.

[Mr. Heskey]

Mostly good with a small fraction abusing their power

[MidgetHunter]

I've experienced police brutality first hand and I'll be one of the first to tell you they're not all bad. Most of the cops I've met were douches (not just saying that because I got in trouble), but only a few were real bad. I've even met a few nice ones.

[Shmoopie]

I voted mostly bad with a few good ones. But who the fuck knows what the real stats are. I could be dead wrong, all I know is I've only met a couple rad cops.

[PartyTaco]

Police are a necessity for society to maintain itself and most are good with a fraction of whom abuse their power.

This is a biased statement.

I know this because you(assuming) have never lived in a society with out a police force. It's an illusion you've been apart of since your birth and introduction to todays democratic society. We, the people, can make changes and modifications to our economy and society that erase the need for a policing force. A local militia or eliminating poverty on the level me know it would help immensely.

Brilliant societies have existed for as long as we know with out a modern policing force as we know it today.

[Papero]

This is a biased statement.

I know this because you(assuming) have never lived in a society with out a police force. It's an illusion you've been apart of since your birth and introduction to todays democratic society. We, the people, can make changes and modifications to our economy and society that erase the need for a policing force. A local militia or eliminating poverty on the level me know it would help immensely.

Brilliant societies have existed for as long as we know with out a modern policing force as we know it today.

What brilliant society didn't have an authority?

[PartyTaco]

What brilliant society didn't have an authority?

I believe you are confused with the difference between authority and police.

[DISASTEROID]

This is a biased statement.

I know this because you(assuming) have never lived in a society with out a police force. It's an illusion you've been apart of since your birth and introduction to todays democratic society. We, the people, can make changes and modifications to our economy and society that erase the need for a policing force. A local militia or eliminating poverty on the level me know it would help immensely.

Brilliant societies have existed for as long as we know with out a modern policing force as we know it today.

I agree with about 50% of this, we can make modifications to our society to lessen the need for a policing force however this doesnt take care of the root need of a policing force. That root need is the causitive agent known as human nature, even animal nature. Idealistically we could eleminate any form of competition among humanity but unfortunately I think that is what it will remain...an ideal...something to strive for...but never a reality. Biological law states that when organisms compete for resources something must either die or move on until the resources are no longer strained. The human desire for "more", or "bigger" or "better" will always ensure that resources are always strained. Humans and animals alike will always fall in some sort of order and it naturally sorts itself out...usually with the submissive and weak giving way to the strong...or those who will take power. A policing force theoretically provides a buffer for that. A peaceful society always has warriors to maintain and protect the peace. Even if that warrior is a god figure. Also what societies have existed without a policing force...even theocratic societeis have policing forces...they are called the priest??

[Papero]

I believe you are confused with the difference between authority and police.

If you're on to something I'm not aware of, shoot.

There has always been an authority and there have always been those to do the authorities will.

Slap them together and you've a cop.

[PartyTaco]

I agree with about 50% of this, we can make modifications to our society to lessen the need for a policing force however this doesnt take care of the root need of a policing force. That root need is the causitive agent known as human nature, even animal nature. Idealistically we could eleminate any form of competition among humanity but unfortunately I think that is what it will remain...an ideal...something to strive for...but never a reality. Biological law states that when organisms compete for resources something must either die or move on until the resources are no longer strained. The human desire for "more", or "bigger" or "better" will always ensure that resources are always strained. Humans and animals alike will always fall in some sort of order and it naturally sorts itself out...usually with the submissive and weak giving way to the strong...or those who will take power. A policing force theoretically provides a buffer for that. A peaceful society always has warriors to maintain and protect the peace. Even if that warrior is a god figure. Also what societies have existed without a policing force...even theocratic societeis have policing forces...they are called the priest??

Let me clarify that I am arguing the idea of police as we know it today. I believe humans with a badge are given far too lenient powers and abilities. For they too are citizens and should be expected to follow the laws they enforce.

So perhaps the root argument lies within the idea that any man that identifies himself as "law enforcement" are ideally robots. But the fact that they are not means they will stumble and fall like the rest of us. I argue that the amount of liberty they are given is hypocritical.

Ancient societies without a identifiable police force:
Greece
Egypt
Babylonia
etc...(simply, there are others)

Disclaimer: I researched each of these societies through google and for about 5 minutes each. Which means I could be flat out wrong. Which doesn't exempt myself from scrutiny. (All of the said societies had no identifiable set jobs for "police men."

[MurdocUSA]

Let me clarify that I am arguing the idea of police as we know it today. I believe humans with a badge are given far too lenient powers and abilities. For they too are citizens and should be expected to follow the laws they enforce.

So perhaps the root argument lies within the idea that any man that identifies himself as "law enforcement" are ideally robots. But the fact that they are not means they will stumble and fall like the rest of us. I argue that the amount of liberty they are given is hypocritical.

Ancient societies without a identifiable police force:
Greece
Egypt
Babylonia
etc...(simply, there are others)

Disclaimer: I researched each of these societies through google and for about 5 minutes each. Which means I could be flat out wrong. Which doesn't exempt myself from scrutiny. (All of the said societies had no identifiable set jobs for "police men."


I see what you’re getting at but even the societies you listed had to have someone to enforce the law like the Military for example. Which is basically what police are, a standing army.

[webmastermarty]

Without police, imagine what would happen...

[rand0m]

Great some pathetic low life's trying to conform to an idolised criminal society.

Grow the fuck up.

[chalupa]

I'm on board with generally good, but with the few douchebags that abuse power.

Someone made the point that they should be beholden to the laws they enforce, and I've seen the local cops turn on their lights, go through a red, and pull into Mickey-D's. I actually had to laugh, because the whole thing was just so amazing.

On the other hand, these are also the same people that will try to give me mouth-to-mouth (I hope they brushed) if I ever wrap my car around a tree.

By the way, the US did exist for quite some time without police, only back then they were called "lawmen" and the place was known as the Wild West. People proved that they were woefully inadequate at self-policing, and bands of men would form that would use might and intimidation on the local populace. If you don't believe me, just watch Back to the Future, III. Tombstone is good, too.

Seriously, though, people need a force that keeps people from abusing other people. I know I wouldn't abuse anybody, but I'm a nice guy. There are people out there who are not nice people, and people need to be protected from those people.

Armed to the teeth with weapons has been proven to not be an effective solution.

[Polkovnik]

Mostly good. Necessary. I don't like every single law, some are against my own ideology, but police are definitely necessary to ensure those good laws are enforced (like murder/theft/all that bad stuff).

[TFS]

My grandfather was a Nebraska State Patrolman and even he tells me to be leary of cops. He used to tell my mother not to pull over in an unpopulated area for the city cops where they lived when she was a kid.

But he also has helped instill in me a simple deep respect for all cops until they prove undeserving of it. Bottom line: don't give anyone a reason to hassle you and you're less likely to have to worry about the minority of cops that suck.

[Acidic Piss]

There are very few that bent, but they waste so much time.
For example giving me and friends a ticket for climbing a tree

[painfulogic]

A giant majority of the police I have observed or interacted with have been the the kind of people that should not be police. In the world that we live in the idea of police is good, serve and protect us. However, police don't get paid enough, so intelligent people that can make more money don't want to be police. The disturbing result is that the police who we have are what we can get, and we are scraping the bottom of the barrel. What we have is a large group of armed and dangerous people with the power to intrude into citizen's lives and the government behind them to protect their actions AND their mistakes.

Fucking with teenagers is not protecting anyone, and rather then having that kind of stuff be a small part of what police do, for most police in low crime areas it is their major purpose.

[TFS]

A giant majority of the police I have observed or interacted with have been the the kind of people that should not be police. In the world that we live in the idea of police is good, serve and protect us. However, police don't get paid enough, so intelligent people that can make more money don't want to be police. The disturbing result is that the police who we have are what we can get, and we are scraping the bottom of the barrel. What we have is a large group of armed and dangerous people with the power to intrude into citizen's lives and the government behind them to protect their actions AND their mistakes.

Fucking with teenagers is not protecting anyone, and rather then having that kind of stuff be a small part of what police do, for most police in low crime areas it is their major purpose.

If that's all they have to do with their time, then that community should take it as a compliment to the behavior of its residents that they're such good samaritans as to make their police bored to tears like that.

Would you rather have bored cops that heckle here and there or would you rather have a community plagued with such crime that the cops can't get any down time?

[PartyTaco]

If that's all they have to do with their time, then that community should take it as a compliment to the behavior of its residents that they're such good samaritans as to make their police bored to tears like that.

Would you rather have bored cops that heckle here and there or would you rather have a community plagued with such crime that the cops can't get any down time?

Wouldn't that also mean you have too many police?

Without police, imagine what would happen...

You mean what you've been taught to think would happen?

Thats not some conspiracy bullshit. You have been raised in a policed society. People rarely look at the root of the problem that presents the need for police in the first place.

You can't fix a problem if you only take care of the side effects. You have to attack the root of the problem in order to fix it.

i.e. poverty, classism, unequal power, etc...

Great some pathetic low life's trying to conform to an idolised criminal society.

Grow the fuck up.

Oh shit! You got me son.

Why don't you construct a real criticism or just don't make a post at all.

[MurdocUSA]

A giant majority of the police I have observed or interacted with have been the the kind of people that should not be police. In the world that we live in the idea of police is good, serve and protect us. However, police don't get paid enough, so intelligent people that can make more money don't want to be police. The disturbing result is that the police who we have are what we can get, and we are scraping the bottom of the barrel. What we have is a large group of armed and dangerous people with the power to intrude into citizen's lives and the government behind them to protect their actions AND their mistakes.

Fucking with teenagers is not protecting anyone, and rather then having that kind of stuff be a small part of what police do, for most police in low crime areas it is their major purpose.

I was really trying to stay out of this as far as emotionally that is but comments like that just burn me up. After reading your post I was ready to attack you at a personal level but I’ve done that in the past and have learned that gets us nowhere and usually causes the discussion to spiral out of control. So I will try to reframe from any personal attacks as I write this.

OK, the first thing I see wrong here is your assessment that most of the Officers you have meet should not be cops at all. That may be true in the area you live though I highly doubt it. See most people are very susceptible to stereotyping my self included, maybe its human nature or something I don’t know. I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that when you was a small child you looked up to Cops the same as most young boys do. They were hero figures just like Firefighters or soldiers. At some point in your life you were introduced to a deferent image of the Police, a negative one and that image stuck with you and with each passing day the news, friends, popular culture maybe even a bad run-in with a Cop solidified a new darker image of Police. The point I’m trying to make here is I think you have made the very very small fraction of “bad cops” into the majority in your mind. I bet you’re going to give me several examples of the bad things you’ve seen cops do like “Fucking with teenagers” but maybe a truthful reflection of that encounter will show that your attitude, level of cooperation and respect given to the Officers would make that hard as nails Cop a whole lot nicer.

This is the part of your post that really burned me up. You seem to think that Cops in general are dumb, uneducated and doing the highly dangerous job because they are too stupid to find something better to do. I know there are a few “less than desirable” Cops out there but even a retarded person could poke holes in your logic. The truth is that most new Cops are fresh out of collage looking to make a life long career and the pay in some areas is quite good. In fact, despite popular beliefs that people become cops to get revenge for being bullied I find more often than not a lot of young men and women take on the job as part of family tradition and most of the others take it on because they are sick of seeing bad guys push good people around.

Many Departments today require collage education before they will even look at your resume. After that you go through a multi tier hiring process where several Officers evaluate you at every level. Then you move on to an interview with a hiring board supposing you pass all that you are required to take an MMPI witch is basically a test to see if you’re mentally stable enough to be a Cop. After making it through that you are sent to a state accredited academy that can be 3 or more months in length. Now, after making it through all that mess you still have a 6 month to 1 year probation period.

I think I did a really good job of not letting my emotions run away with me in this post. I do hope that this helps wash away some of the down right wrong stereotypes you have of Law Enforcement. Every time someone makes remarks like you basically spit in the face of thousands of brave individuals not only in this country but everywhere. If you can’t learn to respect them as Officers try respecting them as ordinary people doing an extraordinary job.

[Tudor]

My father was a fireman for many years and shared a station with a group of cops. They (cops) used to steal drugs from confiscation, and sell it back to their friends and even the firefighters haha. He also said that about 99% of them were litterally criminals with badges and this is just in a town of only 30,000 people.

Also a good friend of mine just became a cop, and he's a total fucking idiot who has no clue about law or morality. The fact that dude gets to make judgment calls on daily basis on how to handle law and order scares the living shit out of me. If this person can become a cop, ANYONE can and that terrifies me.

[Deamatix]

Wow, that's a lie. The people you're talking about would be the small fraction part of this poll.

The only people with your opinion are the people who got drunk before school, failed most classes and graduated by the skin of their teeth.

I can only hope you're simply trolling, you've got your bait.


I did not just double post, other post was deleted, this post stands.

I deleted the post so I could say something more thought out.

Cops, just like any other group of people, will have their good ones, and their assholes. The assholes seem like even bigger assholes because they are in a position of authority, and when they behave like assholes it speaks bad for everyone else. A lot of police officers need to remember that they have a relationship to the public that needs to be maintained. When they act like Gestapo and look for every little reason to treat the average citizen like a criminal, it comes back to bite them when no witnesses come forward to help with a case.

[camjoe87]

Brilliant societies have existed for as long as we know with out a modern policing force as we know it today.

Care to elaborate more on this statement? It seems in all societies there have been some sort of class system and along with it some sort of law system and a way of enforcing that law. You even see this behavior in other advanced primate species as well (seeing as these are social animals, much like humans) .. So this probably goes well back before the agricultural revolution. Obviously, the current judicial system and law enforcement system is much different now, but I really can't think of a "brilliant" society that existed without some form of law enforcement.

The only thing that really comes to mind when I think of a society without law is the wild west .. I wouldn't really call that "brilliant".

[TFS]

Wouldn't that also mean you have too many police?

That's something to take up with City Hall.

[rand0m]

Oh shit! You got me son.

Why don't you construct a real criticism or just don't make a post at all.

... I'm not replying to someone that states something like this.

You mean what you've been taught to think would happen?

Thats not some conspiracy bullshit. You have been raised in a policed society. People rarely look at the root of the problem that presents the need for police in the first place.

You can't fix a problem if you only take care of the side effects. You have to attack the root of the problem in order to fix it.

i.e. poverty, classism, unequal power, etc...

[Danimal87]

Thats not some conspiracy bullshit. You have been raised in a policed society. People rarely look at the root of the problem that presents the need for police in the first place.

You can't fix a problem if you only take care of the side effects. You have to attack the root of the problem in order to fix it.

i.e. poverty, classism, unequal power, etc...
You're right. You must be the first person ever to have though those things contribute to crime. Actually, wait a minute, maybe you're not the first person to do so, so then you can't say people rarely look at the "root of the problem."

You're forgetting that their are more roots to the problem than you listed, that are innate to mankind. Things like greed, and violence. Even if people were equal, and there was no classism or poverty, many would still covet their neighbor, and there will always be a reason to hate.

For example, I am not poor, I don't care about class and have no idea what class you are, and even if we were equal in "power", whatever you mean by that, I could kill you for saying something like you did now if you said it to me face to face. With no guarantee of justice, I could simply shoot or stab you to death, and if I was discreet, no one would be any the wiser. I'd do it not for the reasons you listed, but because of you simply offending me. A police force in place keeps people from doing these kinds of things all the time.

We live in an imperfect world, and we are in imperfect species. We will either always need a police force to keep the peace, or we must evolve into higher beings. For the time being, we need police.

[painfulogic]

You're right. You must be the first person ever to have though those things contribute to crime. Actually, wait a minute, maybe you're not the first person to do so, so then you can't say people rarely look at the "root of the problem."

You're forgetting that their are more roots to the problem than you listed, that are innate to mankind. Things like greed, and violence. Even if people were equal, and there was no classism or poverty, many would still covet their neighbor, and there will always be a reason to hate.

For example, I am not poor, I don't care about class and have no idea what class you are, and even if we were equal in "power", whatever you mean by that, I could kill you for saying something like you did now if you said it to me face to face. With no guarantee of justice, I could simply shoot or stab you to death, and if I was discreet, no one would be any the wiser. I'd do it not for the reasons you listed, but because of you simply offending me. A police force in place keeps people from doing these kinds of things all the time.

We live in an imperfect world, and we are in imperfect species. We will either always need a police force to keep the peace, or we must evolve into higher beings. For the time being, we need police.


It's kind of funny be you actually are supporting his point. If you decided and planned on killing someone because they offended you the police could never stop you. They might be able to catch (or kill) you afterwards, but if you were smart enough you could easily kill someone and their would be no real way to prevent it, especially if it was out of anger or hate and you didn't care about being caught afterwards.

However, on the other hand the types of crimes that are common because of "poverty, classism, unequal power, etc..." are the most common problems police deal with.

The United States has a disturbing percentage of people in prison and the reason is because of these social problems. However people don't want to help other people, they simply don't care. -> Fuck poor people, and if they wanna fuck with us put um in a fuckin cage.

[PartyTaco]

... I'm not replying to someone that states something like this.

Stop making blanket biased statements that attack the speaker and say something intelligent.

Care to elaborate more on this statement? It seems in all societies there have been some sort of class system and along with it some sort of law system and a way of enforcing that law. You even see this behavior in other advanced primate species as well (seeing as these are social animals, much like humans) .. So this probably goes well back before the agricultural revolution. Obviously, the current judicial system and law enforcement system is much different now, but I really can't think of a "brilliant" society that existed without some form of law enforcement.

The only thing that really comes to mind when I think of a society without law is the wild west .. I wouldn't really call that "brilliant".

I was talking about a modern police force. Not laws or a few officials that enforce the laws. And as far as I know, "advanced primates" don't have any laws or follow any type of law enforcement.

I also named a few societies so I'm unsure of what else you want.

You're right. You must be the first person ever to have though those things contribute to crime. Actually, wait a minute, maybe you're not the first person to do so, so then you can't say people rarely look at the "root of the problem."

You're forgetting that their are more roots to the problem than you listed, that are innate to mankind. Things like greed, and violence. Even if people were equal, and there was no classism or poverty, many would still covet their neighbor, and there will always be a reason to hate.

For example, I am not poor, I don't care about class and have no idea what class you are, and even if we were equal in "power", whatever you mean by that, I could kill you for saying something like you did now if you said it to me face to face. With no guarantee of justice, I could simply shoot or stab you to death, and if I was discreet, no one would be any the wiser. I'd do it not for the reasons you listed, but because of you simply offending me. A police force in place keeps people from doing these kinds of things all the time.

We live in an imperfect world, and we are in imperfect species. We will either always need a police force to keep the peace, or we must evolve into higher beings. For the time being, we need police.

1. Don't put words in my mouth. Rare doesn't mean the idea was original or specific to me. In fact I have read it and heard it from many sources.

2. While I agree with the greed part, I do not believe humans are habitually violent. I believe the majority of most violence is a product of the society we live in.

3. The ideas you present forth sound somewhat religious. So I'll finish with my own thought on that matter: No economic system will bring about complete perfect change. What we all need is salvation. But until that day comes when every man is bowed and every voice sings praise. Changing the world we live in still helps!

[camjoe87]

And as far as I know, "advanced primates" don't have any laws or follow any type of law enforcement.

I also named a few societies so I'm unsure of what else you want.
Baboons, chimpanzees, among others have advanced social heirchies (lower class, high class, etc.) .. You sort of hinted this as a product of our modern day police force. I was simply stating it's natural as a social species to have this kind of class system and it's not really a byproduct of modern law enforcement. Also, In these advanced social systems primates do have a way of enforcing certain "rules" they have set out for their colony (death, banishment) .. It's pretty interesting stuff.

Either way, to get back on topic, you sort of came off as saying that "brilliant" societies in the past were able to get by without any means of law enforcement WHATSOEVER, I guess I misunderstood you.

[particlephysics]

if women were parthenogenic human society wouldnt be as ravaged by male aggresion all the time. more like a female insect hierchy

[PartyTaco]

Baboons, chimpanzees, among others have advanced social heirchies (lower class, high class, etc.) .. You sort of hinted this as a product of our modern day police force. I was simply stating it's natural as a social species to have this kind of class system and it's not really a byproduct of modern law enforcement. Also, In these advanced social systems primates do have a way of enforcing certain "rules" they have set out for their colony (death, banishment) .. It's pretty interesting stuff.

Either way, to get back on topic, you sort of came off as saying that "brilliant" societies in the past were able to get by without any means of law enforcement WHATSOEVER, I guess I misunderstood you.

Thats a good point.

But I was referring to the economic class system that exists today. The "social class system" is one of the laws of nature.

[Danimal87]

It's kind of funny be you actually are supporting his point. If you decided and planned on killing someone because they offended you the police could never stop you. They might be able to catch (or kill) you afterwards, but if you were smart enough you could easily kill someone and their would be no real way to prevent it, especially if it was out of anger or hate and you didn't care about being caught afterwards.
The latter part of this is right, but the fact that the police would catch me afterwards would stop me, making the beginning part of this paragraph wrong.
However, on the other hand the types of crimes that are common because of "poverty, classism, unequal power, etc..." are the most common problems police deal with.
The police don't tackle any one of those things.
The United States has a disturbing percentage of people in prison and the reason is because of these social problems. However people don't want to help other people, they simply don't care. -> Fuck poor people, and if they wanna fuck with us put um in a fuckin cage.
The United States has a lot of people in its prisons, yet we have among the highest standards of living in the world. In poorer countries where millions live making under two dollars a day, you'll often find a much lower crime rate.

When I delivered pizza over the summer, it amazed me how so many poorer people would buy one meal from my work for upwards of $30 to $40. Just for one meal. That could buy them food for a week, and they could use their remaining money to help themselves improve their situation. Not to mention, we do help the poor a great deal. Being poor is used as an excuse for crime by those who commit it and their apologists, but all of this leads me to believe that it is not a legitimate excuse.

The cause of crime is human nature mixed in with a destructive culture. I'm studying here in Berlin, and I can't help but notice how much more peaceful and non-confrontational their culture is.

Rap and Hip-Hop music share a great deal of blame for putting people in the state of mind to where they want to hurt and take advantage of other people. Watch any music video of theirs, and its all about desiring women, money, street rep, and glorifying crime.

And don't tell me that crap that media doesn't affect us. Otherwise, restaurants wouldn't advertise commercials with delicious food in them. Those commercials make us hungry so that we want to eat there. Advertising the rush and feeling of dominance you get from being a criminal makes raps listeners want to do the same thing.
2. While I agree with the greed part, I do not believe humans are habitually violent. I believe the majority of most violence is a product of the society we live in.
Well I'm sorry, but I don't see how you can think that. Look at every other species, and they are inherently violent, and its not as if we turned into angels when our species emerged. If we were born angels, we wouldn't need to be disciplined as children.
3. The ideas you present forth sound somewhat religious.
It was just a figure of speech, I'm not religious anymore.

[painfulogic]

Danimal87 I'm not sure if you understood my point.

But, look at your two posts and I'm sure you can see the logic problem.

You claimed that Police are needed because without then you could simply kill someone for any reason, even just for offending you. My point is that the Police have very very little preventative ability for violence like this. You said that getting caught afterwards would prevent you from doing it, but what you meant was the risk of getting caught afterwards might make you not do it. This is not preventative action but reactive action and while it may help stop some violence it obviously doesn't stop a lot of it.

Also you said that the police don't tackle the issues of "poverty, classism, unequal power, etc..." but think of the type of crimes that police spend most of their time fighting against and you will see what I mean.

[Danimal87]

Danimal87 I'm not sure if you understood my point.

But, look at your two posts and I'm sure you can see the logic problem.

You claimed that Police are needed because without then you could simply kill someone for any reason, even just for offending you. My point is that the Police have very very little preventative ability for violence like this. You said that getting caught afterwards would prevent you from doing it, but what you meant was the risk of getting caught afterwards might make you not do it. This is not preventative action but reactive action and while it may help stop some violence it obviously doesn't stop a lot of it.
Risk of getting caught, getting caught, c'mon, you're being a bit too academic here. Yes, I meant the risk of getting caught. Also, that risk does stop crime. How much is a subjective opinion. Maybe you don't think it stops that much, but it is really hard to tell precisely how much crime would go up if we didn't have that risk because, as is the case with political science, we can't make experiments to find out like how biologists can report exact results from using petri dishes. Our petri dish is too large, and the bacteria in them unwilling for an experiment.

We shouldn't get strung up too much on the argument of whether having a police force would reduce crime or not. There would still be crime even if it is not often, and when that happens, you need a force that can bring those people to justice. Even if some of you idealists did attain a perfect society, one madman could walk into it and wreck it with impunity unless you had the balls to do something about it. Enter a police force.
Also you said that the police don't tackle the issues of "poverty, classism, unequal power, etc..." but think of the type of crimes that police spend most of their time fighting against and you will see what I mean.
Lets first look at what they directly fight against: violence, theft, vandalism, rape, but the list goes on. You want to draw a line connecting these things with how poor off a person is, but I don't see a strong enough line for my already stated reasons.

I believe other root causes are more prevalent here. You don't have to be poor to get angry and hurt someone, to become greedy and steal something, get horny and rape someone.

But I think I know the real reason why you don't think we should have police.
Fucking with teenagers is not protecting anyone, and rather then having that kind of stuff be a small part of what police do, for most police in low crime areas it is their major purpose.
Sounds like you're a teenager or at least were, and had an incident with the police and had your feelings hurt. Walk it off, and don't use it as an excuse for anarchy.

[painfulogic]

Sounds like you're a teenager or at least were, and had an incident with the police and had your feelings hurt. Walk it off, and don't use it as an excuse for anarchy.

I sound like a teenager?

Well I guess I kind of hid my point. I don't believe in anarchy but I believe we should have a much smaller and weaker police force. They should focus their attention on stopping, preventing, and catching people who commit violent crimes. SO much time and energy is wasted on bullshit. Police should spend the time they waste trying to get drugs and prostitutes off the streets with their fucking elaborate sting operations on getting guns out of the hands of criminals. The police force for the general public is giant, but how come we don't have more people investigating political and corporate corruptions?

The sickest thing about the police is they are part of the general public themselves. They are not superior in intelligence or moral fiber (you might even argue inferior) but we give them guns and a bizarre amount of power just for signing up.

The government pays us to keep ourselves down...

[MurdocUSA]

I sound like a teenager?

Well I guess I kind of hid my point. I don't believe in anarchy but I believe we should have a much smaller and weaker police force. They should focus their attention on stopping, preventing, and catching people who commit violent crimes. SO much time and energy is wasted on bullshit. Police should spend the time they waste trying to get drugs and prostitutes off the streets with their fucking elaborate sting operations on getting guns out of the hands of criminals. The police force for the general public is giant, but how come we don't have more people investigating political and corporate corruptions?

The sickest thing about the police is they are part of the general public themselves. They are not superior in intelligence or moral fiber (you might even argue inferior) but we give them guns and a bizarre amount of power just for signing up.

The government pays us to keep ourselves down...

Painfulogic, your “logic” or lack thereof is “painfully” clear to ever intelligent person that reads your garbage. Did you even try to read my response to your post on the 2nd page?

Nothing anybody tells you will fix your broken view of the real world. To suggest that cops are substandard people is absolutely mind blowing. I clearly pointed out the steps that most Officer Hopefuls must traverse before even thinking of being cops. Please go back a page and read it.

Please do not reply to this post. Nothing you have to say is worth reading anyway. You are the substandard human and that’s not an attack it is an opinion built on reading your post. You are simple minded and the truth is, you can’t fix stupid.

At no point in your short life will you come close to measuring up to a Police Officer. You will never be a man of virtue or value. Who are you to think yourself better than men who put on that shield, kiss their wife and children goodbye and risk their lives every hour of every day simply to help a fellow human being?






Now I’ve past judgment on you without ever taking the time to talk to you, get to know you or understand your background and life. Pisses you off doesn’t it?

[painfulogic]

No it doesn't piss me off at all in fact it says a lot. You have some kind of emotional attachment to this topic, I'm sorry but I can't help that. I have nothing against cops personally (most of them at least) because many really believe they are doing the right thing, but power can corrupt the best of people. The Police themselves can not be blamed for the flaws that their position holds but they can be blamed for many of the inappropriate actions they take that go unpunished.

I'm sorry this is hard to accept but the fact is that if we made some changes we could attract a police force that more people would respect and benefit from.

Also, try to keep the discussion on the topic not your personal issues with my opinions...

[MurdocUSA]

No it doesn't piss me off at all in fact it says a lot. You have some kind of emotional attachment to this topic, I'm sorry but I can't help that. I have nothing against cops personally (most of them at least) because many really believe they are doing the right thing, but power can corrupt the best of people. The Police themselves can not be blamed for the flaws that their position holds but they can be blamed for many of the inappropriate actions they take that go unpunished.

I'm sorry this is hard to accept but the fact is that if we made some changes we could attract a police force that more people would respect and benefit from.

Also, try to keep the discussion on the topic not your personal issues with my opinions...

I never attacked you or your views. If you read the last line it clearly shows that I was merely trying to show you how your uneducated view of our current Law Enforcement forces is simply wrong and hurtful to outstanding men and women who make up the majority of our counties Police Force. It takes no stretch of the imagination to figure out what it is I do for a living. I know that I don’t fall into your categorization of cops nor do any other Officers I know or have ever met. And please do read my response to your post on the 2nd page.

[painfulogic]

I never attacked you or your views.

Painfulogic, your “logic” or lack thereof is “painfully” clear to ever intelligent person that reads your garbage...
Nothing anybody tells you will fix your broken view of the real world...
Nothing you have to say is worth reading anyway. You are the substandard human...
You are simple minded and the truth is, you can’t fix stupid...
At no point in your short life will you come close to measuring up to a Police Officer...
You will never be a man of virtue or value...


You are a Police Officer.

Reading my analysis of the Police force was enough to make you think all these things about me. In fact apparently I'm so lost I can't be fixed.

I only imagine what you think of someone who commits a violent crime. That they can't be fixed? That they don't measure up to an officer? That they are a substandard human like me?

Police view the people they deal with as garbage that they just dispose of just like you view someone who has a different point of view as garbage. Police officer's identify themselves as authority and once they get use to the idea they are angered and disgruntled by those that oppose them or their views.

[MurdocUSA]

You are a Police Officer.

Reading my analysis of the Police force was enough to make you think all these things about me. In fact apparently I'm so lost I can't be fixed.

I only imagine what you think of someone who commits a violent crime. That they can't be fixed? That they don't measure up to an officer? That they are a substandard human like me?

Police view the people they deal with as garbage that they just dispose of just like you view someone who has a different point of view as garbage. Police officer's identify themselves as authority and once they get use to the idea they are angered and disgruntled by those that oppose them or their views.

Clearly you have missed my point entirely. I was not attacking you. I was only attempting to show you how I could use your logic to justify making you nothing more than social garbage. Again I was not attacking you. I don’t think your trash, nor do I really have an opinion of you other than you have a misguided view of Law Enforcement. You really need to open your mind up and stop tossing every Cop into one pot. You are doing the very thing you dislike cops for doing, stereotyping.