pulstar plugs

[mysteryvo]

has anyone tried these yet? they claim 10hp and i read an article that they dyno'ed a 4g63 engine (evo's for the win!) and saw a 5.7hp increase to the wheels. i'm just curious if anyone has given them a try yet and what you think.... i'll be sure to post when i get a set

[Fnr Bikes]

No...... gtfo

[elliott678]

Sounds like just another gimmick.

[drjay]

crap. They called the makers of it out on a vette forum and were offered a free set of plugs to test. They even came out to the dyno and helped make sure it went right. Turns out 0 gain. meh.

[mysteryvo]

really? thats a let down to hear. i'll have to do a bit more research

[MyBike]

I've been told OEM works best.

Probably a gimmick.

[car_boy_16]

Now explain to me, in reality, how special spark plugs are going to create horsepower over properly-designed, properly-chosen traditional-style spark plugs? Hmmm? Fuck these plugs--fuck any plugs that claim to give you noticeable gains in horsepower. What plugs do serious drag racers use--not these! Formula One cars? Nope they don't use those either. Then who uses them? Suckers do...

[DarcSystems]

Sounds like horse shit. Like those dual/triple/quad point plugs. Those are bogus too. Electricity would only follow one single path to ground, which means that only one of those points would be firing at a time.

But yeah, I use whatever is recommended by the manufacturer. It's your best bet.

[elliott678]

But yeah, I use whatever is recommended by the manufacturer. It's your best bet.
That is what I usually do, but on my Mustang I did experiment a little since it isn't stock. I am using platinum plugs, 2 steps hotter than stock and 0.15 more gap, no gimmick plugs. I did find that idle quality changed between the resistor style plugs and the platinums, but that was the only difference I noticed.

[mysteryvo]

Now explain to me, in reality, how special spark plugs are going to create horsepower over properly-designed, properly-chosen traditional-style spark plugs? Hmmm? Fuck these plugs--fuck any plugs that claim to give you noticeable gains in horsepower. What plugs do serious drag racers use--not these! Formula One cars? Nope they don't use those either. Then who uses them? Suckers do...

they show dyno results from before and after in 3 different engines, how do you argue with proven results?

[elliott678]

they show dyno results from before and after in 3 different engines, how do you argue with proven results?
Who is "they"? The people trying to sell you the plugs? Of course they would show an increase, they are trying to sell them.

[DarcSystems]

I use different plugs because I have aluminum heads and a different ignition system, but on a stock engine, I use factory recommended, always.

Show me dyno charts all day, but I wouldn't buy into them because you don't know what they did to the engine or timing when they hand you a piece of paper.

[Fordguy300]

Sounds like the same type of people that say putting their magnet next to your fuel line will give you better gas mileage.

[drjay]

Sounds like horse shit. Like those dual/triple/quad point plugs. Those are bogus too. Electricity would only follow one single path to ground, which means that only one of those points would be firing at a time.




True, but those are designed more to stay fresh longer. Once one of the points corrodes there are still other options.

As for the torque gains, on their website they claim percentage not actual power. In one example they got 11% from a 2006 Marquis. It comes with 272 ft lbs so that's a gain of 29ft lbs. While probably stacked for the marketing, here's some more info to consider: (old usenet)

The standard SuperFlow is rated at 1000 HP, 10,000 rpm and 800 ft-lbs of torque. The RPM signal is converted to a voltage by a tach chip before being submitted to an A/D converter. The torque signal is derived from a strain gauge attached to the absorber. This signal is also applied to the same A/D converter through an analog mux. Horsepower before SAE correction is the simple calculation:

(torque (ft-lb) * RPM ) / 5252

This computation is done in an analog multiplier for the analog readout and by the CPU for the digital readout. So good, so far. But here's the kicker. The A/D converter is an 8 bit unit. That is, it digitizes the incoming signal into one of 256 binary values. For torque, that is 800 ft-lbs / 256 = 3.13 ft-lbs per bit. For RPM, 10,000/256 = 39 rpm per bit. At a constant 6000 RPM, the best HP resolution is 3.5 hp. At a constant 500 ft-lbs of torque, the best HP resolution is 3.7 HP. This lack of precision results in the best theoretical HP measurement at 6000 RPM being +- 3.5 hp. Worst case is 3.5 + 3.7 = 7.2 hp. The root-sum-square (much more representative of the real world) is 5.0 hp.
The precision varies, of course, with RPM. The important point is any horsepower variation less than about 5 hp is meaningless and is more likely attributable to quantitizing error in the electronics. Understand that this does NOT include other systematic error terms such as the errors associated with the analog electronics or the torque sensor calibration.

[car_boy_16]

So that is a long-winded explanation of why dynos are often 5 to 10hp off in their readings. I wonder, though, if dynos are just inaccurate or also imprecise as well. I would rather have a precise dyno versus an accurate one.

[drjay]

So that is a long-winded explanation of why dynos are often 5 to 10hp off in their readings. I wonder, though, if dynos are just inaccurate or also imprecise as well. I would rather have a precise dyno versus an accurate one.

lol what??

Definitions of inaccurate on the Web:

* not accurate

Definitions of precise on the Web:

* sharply exact or accurate



You'd rather have one that's correct than correct. gotcha.

[Spank666]

lol what??

Definitions of inaccurate on the Web:

* not accurate

Definitions of precise on the Web:

* sharply exact or accurate



You'd rather have one that's correct than correct. gotcha.

The words 'accurate' and 'precise' have slightly different connotations. In relation to a dyno, 'precise' implies the dyno may be a bit off actual calibration, but returns consistent data. An 'accurate' reading from a dyno may return a correct reading, but does not necessarily return consistent data.

[WEtakinOVER]

$25 a piece? wouldnt it make more sense to pay some more and buy and ignition system like msd?

well anyways i dare someone to buy them and tell us what you think... a dare is a dare, dont break the rules lol

[drjay]

An 'accurate' reading from a dyno may return a correct reading, but does not necessarily return consistent data.

Don't mean to threadjack here but if I'm missing the point entirely I'd like correction. That statement to me makes no sense at all.

If the dyno is "accurate" but not consistent, that means the *engine* is tossing out different numbers, and the dyno is accurately reflecting that. If the dyno is accurate there's nothing else to say about it. It *must* be precise to be accurate.

I think the statement might work one way but not the other. You may get away with saying it's precise, but incorrect, as in your first statement. Such as it always displays 5hp too much, but does it at a high resolution (precision). But you couldn't say it's accurate (meaning correct) if it's not displaying the maximum resolution (precision) CORRECTLY. Make sense?

There's no way to have anything be accurate but not precise. If the real horsepower was 204 and it read 205, it was not accurate but may be precisely 1hp off every time. If it read 204 it was accurate, and precisely displayed the correct hp.

I'm not going to beat on the subject, but didn't think anyone would side with the statement.

[Spank666]

There's no way to have anything be accurate but not precise. If the real horsepower was 204 and it read 205, it was not accurate but may be precisely 1hp off every time. If it read 204 it was accurate, and precisely displayed the correct hp.

Lets put it this way. Accuracy is one good measurement, precision is a series of consistent measurements. Precise measurements are not necessarily accurate.

[WEtakinOVER]

accurate means correct... like the dyno is on target and gave a correct reading.

to define percise... lets say they put the plugs in and ran it 400 times and it came up 3 more hp every time. thats percise. it doesnt mean its correct

[car_boy_16]

Wow...I cant believe you guys are even arueing about this 'accurate' or 'precise' bullshit. Wow.

I am using these words in a way that I know, so here is an a example of where I'm coming from. An old clock and a new clock, right? The real time is 3:00PM, but the new clock has the wrong time, it says 4:00PM. The old clock is set at 3PM as well, but unlike most days, the slop in the gears has it reading 3:02PM. The new clock is always just 1 hour ahead, at 4:00PM. You would say that the new clock, while inaccurate, is precise. And you would say that that the old clock, while accurate for the most part, is imprecise.

I know you can argue the technicalities of this and the words above, but I know you get my point. Stop being smart asses, please. (you who know you are)

The reason I said I would like a precise dyno is because I think that using a dyno to see before and after readings (baseline vs mod 1, mod 2, mod 3, ect...), even if the dyno wasn't showing proper baseline numbers (showing 150whp, when the motor dynos normally at 160whp on other standard dynos) that you might expect certain motor to make, you would be glad to know that a dyno would be able to reliably tell you the differences with 'mod 1' and 'mod 2' in regards to horsepower and/or torque.

[drjay]

Wow...I cant believe you guys are even arueing about this 'accurate' or 'precise' bullshit. Wow.

lol yeah it's getting dumb especially because everyone is basically saying the same thing. Only difference I'm stating is that the phrase works one way but not the other. You can't be accurate and not precise. If your clock is off by even 1 second (precision), it's no longer accurate. Like you noted though, it can be exactly 1 second off and possibly still considered precise, but not accurate. If the clock is off by any amount, for whatever reason, no matter how exacting or "reliably" it's off, it's no longer accurate. See how it works one way but not the other?

Back to the plugs. They're likely junk. As I mentioned when they had a test done with a bunch of 'vette owners they came up with zero.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=1800864
^^ 2 tests in there if you browse around. 3hp on one i think

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=1827136
^^ one test there. seems to think "work as claimed" although the hp numbers are way low and within the margin of error. They did see changes in combustion though.

[Spank666]

You can't be accurate and not precise.

You couldn't be much more wrong. Say I throw a dart at a target and hit a bullseye. Accurate? However, precision, in that context, cannot be determined by one throw. I could throw 20 darts, and hit one or two accurate shots, but have no precision at all.

[car_boy_16]

lol yeah it's getting dumb especially because everyone is basically saying the same thing. Only difference I'm stating is that the phrase works one way but not the other. You can't be accurate and not precise. If your clock is off by even 1 second (precision), it's no longer accurate. Like you noted though, it can be exactly 1 second off and possibly still considered precise, but not accurate. If the clock is off by any amount, for whatever reason, no matter how exacting or "reliably" it's off, it's no longer accurate. See how it works one way but not the other?
I know this post type will be redundant, but I just want to clear up what how *I* used the two words within the context from my first post.
American Heritage Dictionary:
Accurate: 2) Deviating only slightly or within acceptable limits from a standard.
Merriam-Webster Dictionary:
Precise: 2) Minutely exact.

...notice I used two different sources? That should say something about the arbitrary use of words and the lack of it. Words are always changing and have many alternate meanings, especially when you insert them into a particular context.

BTW, I do know what you're saying about how to be accurate, there must be a degree of precision. I understand that. On the other side of it, if I throw a rock behind my back and find where it lands--it landed precisely there, although I was not accurate. You can twist words in so many ways it's not even funny, that's why they have the study of morphology.

[WEtakinOVER]

wow..... when will it stop?

[elliott678]

wow..... when will it stop?
You haven't been here long, have you?

[kerpal]

Now explain to me, in reality, how Pulstar Plugs (http://www.car-stuff.com/pulstarplugs.htm)
are going to create horsepower over properly-designed, properly-chosen traditional-style spark plugs? Hmmm? Fuck these plugs--fuck any plugs that claim to give you noticeable gains in horsepower. What plugs do serious drag racers use--not these! Formula One cars? Nope they don't use those either. Then who uses them? Suckers do...

I heard it increases the 10 times more power than the ordinary or traditional-style spark plugs. Thats why vehicles become more powerful and become more efficient. Of course, race cars change their traditional style spark plugs. If not, their ride will not go the distance. And that's why their cars are faster than of the stock

[Spank666]

And that's why their cars are faster than of the stock

My car is making damn near double the stock horsepower. Can you guess which plugs I'm using? Thats right, bone stock. They work just fine. Clearly the spark plugs aren't the reason my car is faster than stock, nor is that the reason any car is faster than stock.

[elliott678]

For power, there is no better plug than a traditional resistor plug, but these don't last long, so most people run a more modern platinum or iridium plug so they don't have to worry about them for 200,000 miles. I run Autolite 66's in my Gremlin, a traditional resistor plug, I don't have a problem changing them every 30,000 miles. I'm not running them for power, even though I need every one I can get out of that little straight 6, I run them because it starts easier and I'm a little afraid of how that ancient electronic ignition would handle anything but a resistor plug.

[EVO_9MR]

i found this page:
http://www.sigmaautomotive.com/performance/pulseplug/pulseplug.php

seems like bs though, they even claim it increases mileage.

[Lost216]

I use the E3 plugs, it felt like it picked up some, but I did take out old plugs so I doubt it was the plug. I use them because of the longevity. The claim makes sense to me. Stock plugs probably won't cut it in some monster motor, but no, I don't thinkg that a simple plug change will increase your power.

[DarcSystems]

biggest load of bull ever.


Not for nothing, but once you started that combustion process, it mostly takes its own course after that. All those will do is drain the life out of the rest of your ignition system, by having a higher resistance, and requiring more power to operate.


They show a wider electrode, which is great, but electricity is still going to follow the easiest path, which is most often a tiny point, or dimple/imperfection from contact to contact which produces a micro-thin spark, igniting your fuel mixture. The only way you get that spark bigger is by adding more power. You do that by having a higher power draw (resistance) from your spark plug. I imagine that reduces the life of your ignition system pretty quickly. I'll stick with what the factory recommends.

[elliott678]

I'll stick with what the factory recommends.My factory recommended plugs are Champions, so I go against this wisdom with my current car, I won't put Champions in a lawn mower. Being an early electronic ignition car, it is very picky about plugs, I've found Autolite 66's to work nicely, it didn't like any AC Delco plug I put in it.

I have a feeling my car would run like absolute ass if I put any kind of gimmick plug in it, it even rejects platinums.

[dysphunktion]

Oh BS. Frozen Plugs, especially on bikes, like...totally give you HP. No duh. They sell them at the annual Biker Rally. Surely these educated bikers wouldn't buy them unless they did what they claimed! Surely!

[DarcSystems]

I just realized this thread was old, and that I responded in it before with the same response.

At least I'm consistent. :)

[EVO_9MR]

lol what??

Definitions of inaccurate on the Web:

* not accurate

Definitions of precise on the Web:

* sharply exact or accurate



You'd rather have one that's correct than correct. gotcha.

You actually took the time to look those up just so you could make that post? Well then, if thats how it is, let's get more technical:
High accuracy low precision
http://www.xarchery.com/images/pva_accurate.GIF

High precision low accuracy
http://www.xarchery.com/images/pva_precise.GIF

High precision, high accuracy
http://www.xarchery.com/images/pva_both.GIF

precision and accuracy are not the same thing