University students march out against ICE Patrol

[Patunox]

SU students march against border patrol
http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/schoolz...ives/136084.asp (http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/schoolzone/archives/136084.asp)

A group of about 30 Seattle University students marched loudly across the campus Tuesday and would have stormed into the middle of a university career fair if police hadn't stopped them.
SU students were stopped outside the career fair.

No, they weren't decrying the dismal economy or a lack of job offers. They were angry that the university invited the U.S. Border Patrol to participate in a law-enforcement career fair.

The official position of students was that having the Border Patrol on campus could make trouble for students and SU staff who are in the country illegally.

"We feel their presence makes students and workers feel unsafe," said SU student Marianne Mork.

And so they chanted their way across campus with cardboard signs.

It wasn't clear whether the Border Patrol got the students' message. Police officers kept them out of the building.

The students want the university to withhold future career-fair invitations from the agency.

"We were surprised that this university continues to support the Border Patrol," Mork said.

But SU's Dean of Students Jacob Diaz called me later in the day to explain that the university is just trying to give students options by including the Border Patrol in the annual event. It's up to each individual to decide if that job fits with his or her value system, Diaz said.

Finally, some people with common sense as to how uncomfortable immigrants feel. Border Patrol doesn't belong at universities.

[Mr. Heskey]

The border between Canada and the US? Yeah, we all know that one stirs up a lot of controversy. :lol:

[Spike Lee]

The border between Canada and the US? Yeah, we all know that one stirs up a lot of controversy. :lol:

Why shouldn't they protect the border there as well?

[Patunox]

Congrats to the SU students for showing backbone. The border patrol, and the border itself, are being turned into a military operation. The U.S. economy would tank without immigrant labor, but keeping workers in an illegal status insures they can be exploited -- which hurts everyone's wages and conditions. Good article.

[texmaster]

SU students march against border patrol
http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/schoolz...ives/136084.asp (http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/schoolzone/archives/136084.asp)

A group of about 30 Seattle University students marched loudly across the campus Tuesday and would have stormed into the middle of a university career fair if police hadn't stopped them.
SU students were stopped outside the career fair.

No, they weren't decrying the dismal economy or a lack of job offers. They were angry that the university invited the U.S. Border Patrol to participate in a law-enforcement career fair.

The official position of students was that having the Border Patrol on campus could make trouble for students and SU staff who are in the country illegally.

"We feel their presence makes students and workers feel unsafe," said SU student Marianne Mork.

And so they chanted their way across campus with cardboard signs.

It wasn't clear whether the Border Patrol got the students' message. Police officers kept them out of the building.

The students want the university to withhold future career-fair invitations from the agency.

"We were surprised that this university continues to support the Border Patrol," Mork said.

But SU's Dean of Students Jacob Diaz called me later in the day to explain that the university is just trying to give students options by including the Border Patrol in the annual event. It's up to each individual to decide if that job fits with his or her value system, Diaz said.

Finally, some people with common sense as to how uncomfortable immigrants feel. Border Patrol doesn't belong at universities.

Someone feed these morons some special Kool-Aid

College students who don't understand what the word "illegal" means. :rollseyes

Remember, free speech and freedom of expression is only what liberals believe in. Anyone else doesn't have that right. Don't you know that already?

[Patunox]

Remember, free speech and freedom of expression is only what liberals believe in. Anyone else doesn't have that right. Don't you know that already?
There's more to it than that. :rolleyes:

The border patrol's presence at SU is very disheartening mainly because the border patrol's tactics conflict with the values upheld by any Jesuit institution, mainly the importance of basic human rights for all no matter what their immigration status or country of origin might be.

That my friend, is true liberalism. ;)

[ric]

A group of about 30 Seattle University students marched loudly across the campus Tuesday and would have stormed into the middle of a university career fair if police hadn't stopped them.


Only 30? WOW! I guess the others were too stoned to participate



"We feel their presence makes students and workers feel unsafe," said SU student Marianne Mork.



Students and staff who are in the country legally don't have nothing to worry about if BPs move about on campus. It's the Illegals that provoke their own shit when they enter the country illegally and illegally gain employment.

Book 'em, Dan-O

[PartyTaco]

Students and staff who are in the country legally don't have nothing to worry about if BPs move about on campus. It's the Illegals that provoke their own shit when they enter the country illegally and illegally gain employment.

What exactly do they provoke? Please elaborate.

[ric]

What exactly do they provoke? Please elaborate.

We are a people of laws and of order. If you break the law, you are punished.

Why not them?

[kevinsmith]

Congrats to the SU students for showing backbone. The border patrol, and the border itself, are being turned into a military operation. The U.S. economy would tank without immigrant labor, but keeping workers in an illegal status insures they can be exploited -- which hurts everyone's wages and conditions. Good article.

America is the only country in the world that is expected to let anyone in whenever, wherever they want, and have full rights and privileges associated with citizenship. Not other country offers that, no one else is expected to.

There's more to it than that. :rolleyes:

The border patrol's presence at SU is very disheartening mainly because the border patrol's tactics conflict with the values upheld by any Jesuit institution, mainly the importance of basic human rights for all no matter what their immigration status or country of origin might be.

That my friend, is true liberalism. ;)

What tactics? The fact that they, oh, I don't know, patrol the border and prevent people from illegally crossing? Question...can you just waltz on in to Mexico, get a job and be granted full citizenship? How about, say any country in Europe.
We, just like any other nation, expect people to follow the rules to become a citizen. That's not wrong. That's making sure we don't let in criminals, terrorists or anyone else that would detract, not add to the benefit of the nation.

[JesusTheJedi]

Yesterday I marched on my city hall. I don't like having the police in town, it makes me uncomfortable when I'm killing hookers in my basement.

[kevinsmith]

Yesterday I marched on my city hall. I don't like having the police in town, it makes me uncomfortable when I'm killing hookers in my basement.

I know what you mean...highway patrol makes me uncomfortable when I speed on the interstate.


Yes, OP, we're being facetious. But the point is, you're complaining that people who broke the law are uncomfortable because those who enforce that law are around. It's like saying to not have Brinks Armored Security on campus because there might be bank robbers at the school who feel uncomfortable around them.

[Patunox]

students and workers find border patrol tactics cruel and insulting, and not respectful of human rights. as a nation of immigrants, most people should be taking personal offense to such dehumanizing tactics, although not all do.

This protest was a freedom of expression, and one that obviously hoped to open eyes. Students sought to address some of the problems inherent in American society. I concur; the nation needs borders in order maintain autonomy as well as regulate commerce; however this border does not need to be militarized to the extent that it is. The severity of the vehemence in posted responses about "illegals" shows there is deep rooted racism freely flowing in society. These immigrants are seen as sub human in many cases and are not valued as people with the same inherent value as each of us [citizens]. This racism leads us to forget that many immigrants have and continue to contribute to our nation in many positive ways. Many do pay taxes, they work tirelessly at jobs that sustain us, and they embrace community and family. Migrant workers do the tasks most citizens will not deign to do. There are jobs in our country for those who want them, if Americans wanted these jobs they would not relinquish them so freely, they would protest on a much wider scale when employers pay wages so menial it is hard to distinguish between employment and slavery. We have outsourced our information jobs and our very lifestyle creates disdain for the blue collar, for people who work with the earth. While our country cannot sustain mass immigrations, why not create a more diplomatic process for acquiring citizenship? Why destroy the fragile lives those who already reside here? Why insult the students who have empathy, feel injustice, and live in a society that has gone to great lengths to ensure every person has a voice?

[texmaster]

There's more to it than that. :rolleyes:

The border patrol's presence at SU is very disheartening mainly because the border patrol's tactics conflict with the values upheld by any Jesuit institution, mainly the importance of basic human rights for all no matter what their immigration status or country of origin might be.

That my friend, is true liberalism. ;)

Well I have 8 years of Jesuit schooling and I do remember something about Render to Caesar.

And don't give me this bullshit about human rights. What about the rights of our LEGAL citizens not to be on the road with illegals who drive drunk and kill children? Or illegals who kill a football star 2 days after they are released from a weapon's charge? Or how about the illegals that kill cops?

Where is your logic in human rights for their victims? Or do they not count?

Yesterday I marched on my city hall. I don't like having the police in town, it makes me uncomfortable when I'm killing hookers in my basement.

That was a genuine LOL

[kevinsmith]

students and workers find border patrol tactics cruel and insulting, and not respectful of human rights. as a nation of immigrants, most people should be taking personal offense to such dehumanizing tactics, although not all do.

This protest was a freedom of expression, and one that obviously hoped to open eyes. Students sought to address some of the problems inherent in American society. I concur; the nation needs borders in order maintain autonomy as well as regulate commerce; however this border does not need to be militarized to the extent that it is. The severity of the vehemence in posted responses about "illegals" shows there is deep rooted racism freely flowing in society. These immigrants are seen as sub human in many cases and are not valued as people with the same inherent value as each of us [citizens]. This racism leads us to forget that many immigrants have and continue to contribute to our nation in many positive ways. Many do pay taxes, they work tirelessly at jobs that sustain us, and they embrace community and family. Migrant workers do the tasks most citizens will not deign to do. There are jobs in our country for those who want them, if Americans wanted these jobs they would not relinquish them so freely, they would protest on a much wider scale when employers pay wages so menial it is hard to distinguish between employment and slavery. We have outsourced our information jobs and our very lifestyle creates disdain for the blue collar, for people who work with the earth. While our country cannot sustain mass immigrations, why not create a more diplomatic process for acquiring citizenship? Why destroy the fragile lives those who already reside here? Why insult the students who have empathy, feel injustice, and live in a society that has gone to great lengths to ensure every person has a voice?

All bold...nice touch.
Try typing in all caps next time too.

Good job playing the race card too. What, couldn't come up with a decent argument, so you went with the generic "Oops, I have no argument, better put them on the defensive" fall back point there?
So, you think we shouldn't "destroy the frafile lives [of] those who already reside here"? So, if you don't initially get caught when you break the law, it'sn okay? How about if I rob a place, but don't get caught right then, and make a fragile life for myself? Should I not be able to get arrested then?
Should the immigration process get fixed? Quite possibly. Does that make it okay to break out laws? Nope. Just because you disagree with a law does not nullify it's existence.
And it's also bullshit to say illegals only take jobs not wanted by legal residents. I can show you several people I know personally who lost good construction jobs to illegal immigrants.
Yes, immigrants are people. Illegal immigrants are people who broke the law. As such, they should be held accountable for their actions. To expect less is really ridiculous.

[texmaster]

All bold...nice touch.
Try typing in all caps next time too.

Good job playing the race card too. What, couldn't come up with a decent argument, so you went with the generic "Oops, I have no argument, better put them on the defensive" fall back point there?
So, you think we shouldn't "destroy the frafile lives [of] those who already reside here"? So, if you don't initially get caught when you break the law, it'sn okay? How about if I rob a place, but don't get caught right then, and make a fragile life for myself? Should I not be able to get arrested then?
Should the immigration process get fixed? Quite possibly. Does that make it okay to break out laws? Nope. Just because you disagree with a law does not nullify it's existence.
And it's also bullshit to say illegals only take jobs not wanted by legal residents. I can show you several people I know personally who lost good construction jobs to illegal immigrants.
Yes, immigrants are people. Illegal immigrants are people who broke the law. As such, they should be held accountable for their actions. To expect less is really ridiculous.

Well said.

[TFS]

Illegals don't have rights. If they want rights recognized by the state, they should apply for a green card or go their state of origin.

Race has nothing to do with it. I'm not going to illegally enter Canada and mooch off of their welfare system without paying taxes into it because to do that is wrong. Race is a moot point here.

[Patunox]

Well I have 8 years of Jesuit schooling and I do remember something about Render to Caesar.

Right, Jesus said give to Caesar what is due to Caesar.

And don't give me this bullshit about human rights.

Bullshit and human rights in the same sentence?

What about the rights of our LEGAL citizens not to be on the road with illegals who drive drunk and kill children?
In debate, this is what we call the non sequitur. Propaganda, purely. Unless you have statistics and how illegal immigrants are statistically impacting the death of our children by drunk driving, then you have no point. Might I say, that you should also refer to LEGAL drivers who also kill innocent people. Gosh, do people really run out of things to say? :rolleyes:

Or illegals who kill a football star 2 days after they are released from a weapon's charge? Or how about the illegals that kill cops?

See above.

Where is your logic in human rights for their victims?
What part of human rights don't you understand?


That was a genuine LOL
Yes it was, putz. LOL

[droogsteve]

First of all, the border IS NOT militarized, though it should be. Secondly, I don't understand what is being proposed here. Abolishing the Border Patrol and having unpatrolled borders? Yeah, that's realistic. And what "tactics" do you find objectionable? Checking IDs? Searching for drugs and weapons?

Perhaps you feel we should replace the Border Patrol with a new "Welcome Committee". They would provide warm milk and cookies as well as driver's licenses to any undocumented third world denizen who can make it to our border. :rolleyes:

It's really cute how clueless people can be.

[Refuse]

In debate, this is what we call the non sequitur. Propaganda, purely. Unless you have statistics and how illegal immigrants are statistically impacting the death of our children by drunk driving, then you have no point. Might I say, that you should also refer to LEGAL drivers who also kill innocent people. Gosh, do people really run out of things to say? :rolleyes:


In reality, this is called hypocrisy.
You're going to put other people to traditional debating standards then you yourself must follow them too.

"students and workers find border patrol tactics cruel and insulting, and not respectful of human rights. as a nation of immigrants, most people should be taking personal offense to such dehumanizing tactics, although not all do."

Where's the supporting evidence to these "dehumanizing acts?"

[TFS]

In reality, this is called hypocrisy.
You're going to put other people to traditional debating standards then you yourself must follow them too.

"students and workers find border patrol tactics cruel and insulting, and not respectful of human rights. as a nation of immigrants, most people should be taking personal offense to such dehumanizing tactics, although not all do."

Where's the supporting evidence to these "dehumanizing acts?"

To add to this, where's the supporting facts that this is racism?

Just because people who just happen to be of different races are involved and one group happens to be predominantly white does not make this racist. In fact...trying to make that claim just because white people are involved is pretty fucking racist

Patunox, you have a lot of source-siting anf fact-checking to do.

[texmaster]

Right, Jesus said give to Caesar what is due to Caesar.

Thats right. Which means the law of the land must be followed therrefore illegals are left to the border patrol BY LAW.

Bullshit and human rights in the same sentence?

When its referring to your argument, yes.

In debate, this is what we call the non sequitur. Propaganda, purely. Unless you have statistics and how illegal immigrants are statistically impacting the death of our children by drunk driving, then you have no point.

Actually, what you are doing is called rampant hypocracy. You only care about one side of the equation and disregard the rights of people who are lawefully here.

You want proof illegals kill? Not a problem

Carlos Prieto was arraigned this morning and charged with three counts of automobile homicide, three counts of driving under the influence and driving without a license. The charging documents say his blood-alcohol level was above the legal limit, KSL-TV of Salt Lake City, reported.

The Ceran family, active in local theater and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, were returning home after attending a performance of Dicken's "The Christmas Carol," which featured several family members, when their car was struck by a truck driven by Carlos Prieto.

The crash killed Cheryl Ceran, 47, and two of her children, 15-year-old Ian and 7-year-old Julinna. Cheryl Ceran's husband, Gary Ceran, 45, and their 19-year-old daughter, Clarissa, and 12-year-old son, Caleb, were injured.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53547

An illegal alien is under arrest, responsible for the deaths of four children by running a stop sign and crashing into a school bus.

http://texasholdemblogger.wordpress.com/2008/02/22/illegal-alien-kills-4-in-bus-crash/

Drunken Illegal Immigrant Kills 21 Year Old Student in Car Crash

http://www.doublebarreledopinions.com/31.htm

Here's a larger list of those who still don't get it.

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.html

Might I say, that you should also refer to LEGAL drivers who also kill innocent people. Gosh, do people really run out of things to say? :rolleyes:

You still aren't getting it are you genius? Illegals shouldn't be here in the first place. LEGAL residents we can't stop from being here ie LEGAL. But if ILLEGALS are deported, they wouldn't have the opportunity to kill our citizens.

Starting to get it now or do I need to break out the crayons?

What part of human rights don't you understand?

What part do you understand? BOTH sides have rights. Only one has LEGAL rights.

[Liberty City]

First of all, the border IS NOT militarized, though it should be. Secondly, I don't understand what is being proposed here. Abolishing the Border Patrol and having unpatrolled borders? Yeah, that's realistic. And what "tactics" do you find objectionable? Checking IDs? Searching for drugs and weapons?

Perhaps you feel we should replace the Border Patrol with a new "Welcome Committee". They would provide warm milk and cookies as well as driver's licenses to any undocumented third world denizen who can make it to our border. :rolleyes:

It's really cute how clueless people can be.


Don't forget the girls in hoola skirts flower reeves around their necks while a caballeros gently strums his Spanish guitar.

[droogsteve]

You want proof illegals kill? Not a problem

You want an example of our immigration insanity, have I got one for you.

An illegal immigrant from Nicaragua is arrested for assault and weapons possession. Instead of being held in jail until trial, serving his sentence and being deported, he is released on bail. While on bail, he RAPES A 5 year old.

Pretty fucked up shit right there, huh? It gets worse. In an astounding bit of insanity, he's AGAIN released on bail!! An illegal immigrant out on bail rapes a child is AGAIN given bail! I can't even imagine what the hell the judge was thinking.

Anyway, staying true to form, said illegal immigrant predator gets together with a few buddies and ROBS AND MURDERS 3 COLLEGE STUDENTS. A fourth victim was shot but survived out of dumb luck. The female victims were sexually assaulted before being killed.

Read: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,292994,00.html

I don't understand the concept of bail for illegal immigrants, it's a complete breakdown of government responsibility. They know these people are here illegally and they know that they're criminals. Yet they choose to turn them loose. It's nuts. The judge who granted bail is just as responsible for the murders of those kids as the animals that pulled the trigger.

[BJ and UT5]

You want an example of our immigration insanity, have I got one for you.

An illegal immigrant from Nicaragua is arrested for assault and weapons possession. Instead of being held in jail until trial, serving his sentence and being deported, he is released on bail. While on bail, he RAPES A 5 year old.

Pretty fucked up shit right there, huh? It gets worse. In an astounding bit of insanity, he's AGAIN released on bail!! An illegal immigrant out on bail rapes a child is AGAIN given bail! I can't even imagine what the hell the judge was thinking.

Anyway, staying true to form, said illegal immigrant predator gets together with a few buddies and ROBS AND MURDERS 3 COLLEGE STUDENTS. A fourth victim was shot but survived out of dumb luck. The female victims were sexually assaulted before being killed.

Read: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,292994,00.html

I don't understand the concept of bail for illegal immigrants, it's a complete breakdown of government responsibility. They know these people are here illegally and they know that they're criminals. Yet they choose to turn them loose. It's nuts. The judge who granted bail is just as responsible for the murders of those kids as the animals that pulled the trigger.

I remember reading about that story and thinking it was really tragic. My only question is, was this guy released on bail because of his immigrant status? In only ask because I think the outrage would be the same if this was done by a native born American.

I agree that the borders should be more thoroughly enforced and I think it only makes sense that the USA has documented who is coming in and out of the country, but I personally disagree with pointing to certain instances of crime as a justification for being a proponent of strong borders. Maybe there is a statistic somewhere that shows a correlation between illegal immigration and crime but I haven't seen anything. Otherwise, without a strong correlation, I think you could point to individuals who come here and work hard jobs for long hours and then send the money back home. I think this would only show that it is a mixed bag. After all, when a native born American commits a crime we don't call for the deportation of the Americans.

Like I said I'm in favor of stronger border patrol and maybe even a fence if it can be done affordably and effectively, but when I see threads like this it usually just degenerates in to xenophobia and thinly veiled bigotry.

[evilmittens]

I, for one, do not care if Mexicans are coming to the United States. I do not think they will be the end of this nation anymore then the Italians, Irish, etc were the end before hand.....


But....


There are rules for coming here to live and work, and not matter if those rules are fair or not, doing something ILLEGAL is not the way to go about change. You change the system legally or the system will break down.

[slapnpopbass]

Finally, some people with common sense as to how uncomfortable immigrants feel. Border Patrol doesn't belong at universities.

Guess what? They should feel very comfortable, providing they didnt jump the fucking fence ILLEGALLY in the first place.

Fuck these students, they're ignorant r-tards that hate the United States and want it to continue in this downward spiral caused by illegal immigration.

[texmaster]

You want an example of our immigration insanity, have I got one for you.

An illegal immigrant from Nicaragua is arrested for assault and weapons possession. Instead of being held in jail until trial, serving his sentence and being deported, he is released on bail. While on bail, he RAPES A 5 year old.

Pretty fucked up shit right there, huh? It gets worse. In an astounding bit of insanity, he's AGAIN released on bail!! An illegal immigrant out on bail rapes a child is AGAIN given bail! I can't even imagine what the hell the judge was thinking.

Anyway, staying true to form, said illegal immigrant predator gets together with a few buddies and ROBS AND MURDERS 3 COLLEGE STUDENTS. A fourth victim was shot but survived out of dumb luck. The female victims were sexually assaulted before being killed.

Read: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,292994,00.html

I don't understand the concept of bail for illegal immigrants, it's a complete breakdown of government responsibility. They know these people are here illegally and they know that they're criminals. Yet they choose to turn them loose. It's nuts. The judge who granted bail is just as responsible for the murders of those kids as the animals that pulled the trigger.

Makes me sick.

A star football player whose mother was in Iraq fighting for us was killed by an illegal 2 days after being released with a weapons charge!

Why was he released? Why because LA has a Sanctuary city policy of course :mad:

[kevinsmith]

I remember reading about that story and thinking it was really tragic. My only question is, was this guy released on bail because of his immigrant status? In only ask because I think the outrage would be the same if this was done by a native born American.

I agree that the borders should be more thoroughly enforced and I think it only makes sense that the USA has documented who is coming in and out of the country, but I personally disagree with pointing to certain instances of crime as a justification for being a proponent of strong borders. Maybe there is a statistic somewhere that shows a correlation between illegal immigration and crime but I haven't seen anything. Otherwise, without a strong correlation, I think you could point to individuals who come here and work hard jobs for long hours and then send the money back home. I think this would only show that it is a mixed bag. After all, when a native born American commits a crime we don't call for the deportation of the Americans.

Like I said I'm in favor of stronger border patrol and maybe even a fence if it can be done affordably and effectively, but when I see threads like this it usually just degenerates in to xenophobia and thinly veiled bigotry.

While it's true that many illegal immigrants are just decent folks looking to better their lives, the other thing is you can guarantee criminals will not submit to our border regulations when coming here. That's one of the reasons we need secure borders, is to prevent people like that from coming in. What people like the OP don't realize in their propaganda induced haze is that border patrol isn't so much about keeping out "dem dirty Mexicans" but about keeping out undesirable, criminal elements. Until we have technology that allows us to look into a mans heart to see his intentions, we just have to turn away anyone that tries to come in illegally.

[evilmittens]

Oh yeah, I forgot to comment about the point of the article. They have a right to protest, but they need to get their heads out of their asses.

[TFS]

I remember reading about that story and thinking it was really tragic. My only question is, was this guy released on bail because of his immigrant status? In only ask because I think the outrage would be the same if this was done by a native born American.

I agree that the borders should be more thoroughly enforced and I think it only makes sense that the USA has documented who is coming in and out of the country, but I personally disagree with pointing to certain instances of crime as a justification for being a proponent of strong borders. Maybe there is a statistic somewhere that shows a correlation between illegal immigration and crime but I haven't seen anything. Otherwise, without a strong correlation, I think you could point to individuals who come here and work hard jobs for long hours and then send the money back home. I think this would only show that it is a mixed bag. After all, when a native born American commits a crime we don't call for the deportation of the Americans.

Like I said I'm in favor of stronger border patrol and maybe even a fence if it can be done affordably and effectively, but when I see threads like this it usually just degenerates in to xenophobia and thinly veiled bigotry.

MS-13 is a huge gang of El Salvadorian origin that has spread into the US and has over 60,000 members across the nation, with an overwhelming population in Baltimore. They recruit anyone of Latino blood, however, and are a strong presence for organized crime while even in our prisons.

While they do recruit those that are legally born or immigrated to the US, a prime recruitment source are young illegal immigrants that have no other real resources for steady income and protection in rougher parts of town. They even acknowledge this in the piece the History Channel did on them.

They are notorious for violent crimes and executions, including decapitation by machete as a calling card of an officially-ordered murder by gang leaders. They also engage in drug trafficking and prostitution and money laundering and counterfitting.

This is just one of many Hispanic-themed street gangs that use these methods and recruitment sources.

While not all illegal immigrants join gangs, they are a primary source for gangs to recruit new members from. Gangs know this, and capitalize on it, feeding their continuing trend of violent crime in the US.

The bottom line though is that right from the very initial point of being in the US, illegals have willfully and knowingly broken our laws and disrespected our sovereignty. To continue their stay in the US they have to tell lie after lie after lie, falsifying at least one item on any piece of documentation that they ever engage in. For some, the bare minimum of lying is the worst it gets, but some go on a slippery slope into other crimes out of addiction, others commit more and worse crimes for profit, going so far as to engage in organized crime.

Whatever the case is, it ranges from bad to absolutely appalling and despicable, and never journeys into the spectrum of good. Their very presence here is a slap in the face to us and our sovereignty and to the millions historically that entered this nation legally at their own detriment of health and wealth, and that's as good as it gets from them, it only gets worse from there.

[BlueMind]

Yes, illegals do break our laws when they cross our borders. But personally, if I had a choice between a shit life in my corrupted third world country and a semi-decent life as an illegal in my nieghbours country, I'd be over that fence in a heartbeat. And I'm sure most you would be too.

You can't blame them for trying because it's only logical for them to try, you should blame the U.S. government for not enforcing it's borders.

[texmaster]

Yes, illegals do break our laws when they cross our borders. But personally, if I had a choice between a shit life in my corrupted third world country and a semi-decent life as an illegal in my nieghbours country, I'd be over that fence in a heartbeat. And I'm sure most you would be too.

You can't blame them for trying because it's only logical for them to try, you should blame the U.S. government for not enforcing it's borders.

I blame both. You can't excuse someone for breaking the law. You want out of your shit country? Do it legally. Millions somehow have done it.

[ric]

If ya'll want to get riled up...then let it rip!...but really, who is bullshitting whom here?? Those 30 students are nothing, but fucking sheep.

These 3 POSs are running for Prez...

Arizona: Sen. John McCain (McEmpty Suit)

New York: Sen. Hillary Clinton (lying socialist extraordinaire)

Illinois: Sen. Barack Obama (sleeper cell extraordinaire)

All 3 voted in favor of the Amnesty Bill.. aka Ass kissers of illegals and outlaw businesses...

Forget about going after the snake's tail and focus your attention on it's head

[TFS]

Yes, illegals do break our laws when they cross our borders. But personally, if I had a choice between a shit life in my corrupted third world country and a semi-decent life as an illegal in my nieghbours country, I'd be over that fence in a heartbeat. And I'm sure most you would be too.

You can't blame them for trying because it's only logical for them to try, you should blame the U.S. government for not enforcing it's borders.

I can't blame them for their desire, but I can blame them for their actions. Fuck them. My ancestors endured Ellis Island and shit living conditions in New York slums. My Irish ancestors in particular were persecuted for being Irish. But they all came here legally despite a lack of wealth, and it's only been my parents' generation in my family where my family's been able to stabilize in being middle-class.

But if you want to run with the "you can't blame them for going for a better life" BS, then you too cannot blame those of us that live here legally with doing everything within our legal power to keep them out and defending our own sovereignty. We have laws to protect ourselves and them, and no one has any right to be displeased at anyone that wants those laws enforced.

[BlueMind]

But if you want to run with the "you can't blame them for going for a better life" BS, then you too cannot blame those of us that live here legally with doing everything within our legal power to keep them out and defending our own sovereignty. We have laws to protect ourselves and them, and no one has any right to be displeased at anyone that wants those laws enforced.

I agree, borders should be enforced. I'm just providing a humanistic point of view.

[vtsquire]

Congrats to the SU students for showing backbone. The border patrol, and the border itself, are being turned into a military operation. The U.S. economy would tank without immigrant labor, but keeping workers in an illegal status insures they can be exploited -- which hurts everyone's wages and conditions. Good article.

If you don't want government jobs being offered on campus, don't take government money to fund your school. Something tells me these students didn't think their actions all the way through.

[Patunox]

If you don't want government jobs being offered on campus, don't take government money to fund your school
LOL, Seattle U receives most of its funding from private organizations, friends, and wealthy philanthropists. It's a private university, much like Harvard.

Anyway, good read, I'll respond to the rest in no particular order.

[evilmittens]

I agree, borders should be enforced. I'm just providing a humanistic point of view.

Nothing wrong with the humanistic view by Engineering friend.

[Mr. Heskey]

If ya'll want to get riled up...then let it rip!...but really, who is bullshitting whom here?? Those 30 students are nothing, but fucking sheep.

These 3 POSs are running for Prez...

Arizona: Sen. John McCain (McEmpty Suit)

New York: Sen. Hillary Clinton (lying socialist extraordinaire)

Illinois: Sen. Barack Obama (sleeper cell extraordinaire)

All 3 voted in favor of the Amnesty Bill.. aka Ass kissers of illegals and outlaw businesses...

Forget about going after the snake's tail and focus your attention on it's head


Switch the descriptions for Obama and Hillary and I do believe you've hit the nail on the head.

[Spike Lee]

sleeper cell extraordinaire?

wow. What horseshit.

[kevinsmith]

Yes, illegals do break our laws when they cross our borders. But personally, if I had a choice between a shit life in my corrupted third world country and a semi-decent life as an illegal in my nieghbours country, I'd be over that fence in a heartbeat. And I'm sure most you would be too.

You can't blame them for trying because it's only logical for them to try, you should blame the U.S. government for not enforcing it's borders.

I do blame the U.S. Government for not enforcing its borders. The opinions of those about whom the article was written, and apparently the OP as well, is we are enforcing our borders too much. They prefer a happy world with lollipop skies and fairies who sing as we wander from border to border with no one of authority stopping us. Yes, the ideals sound great, but as I've often said, ideals are what you have when one doesn't enter the variables of reality into the equation. That's why they're called ideals: That's what you could have in idea situations. I have yet to see a situation in reality that is ideal. The reality is unsecured borders allows in people you wouldn't want in.

I issue this challenge to anyone who thinks we should have open borders.
Don't lock your doors on your home. Let anyone come and go. This may sound like a silly comparison, but if you think about it really isn't. The borders are the doors to our "home", our nation. We keep them locked to keep out people we don't want in, just like your door to your home. So go ahead, don't lock 'em. Hell, leave 'em open. You'll be helping a lot of people who may be less fortunate than you as they can get shelter, things they need etc. Hell, you HAVE a home, food and what not. You're better off than a lot of people, and by the logic of some, it's your responsibility to let anyone in and take what they need. After all, they need it, and you have it. But here's the rub. You'll also be allowing in people who may wish to victimize you, even hurt or kill you. So, I ask anyone who thinks we should have open borders this: Do you lock your doors?

[evilmittens]

I do blame the U.S. Government for not enforcing its borders. The opinions of those about whom the article was written, and apparently the OP as well, is we are enforcing our borders too much. They prefer a happy world with lollipop skies and fairies who sing as we wander from border to border with no one of authority stopping us. Yes, the ideals sound great, but as I've often said, ideals are what you have when one doesn't enter the variables of reality into the equation. That's why they're called ideals: That's what you could have in idea situations. I have yet to see a situation in reality that is ideal. The reality is unsecured borders allows in people you wouldn't want in.

I issue this challenge to anyone who thinks we should have open borders.
Don't lock your doors on your home. Let anyone come and go. This may sound like a silly comparison, but if you think about it really isn't. The borders are the doors to our "home", our nation. We keep them locked to keep out people we don't want in, just like your door to your home. So go ahead, don't lock 'em. Hell, leave 'em open. You'll be helping a lot of people who may be less fortunate than you as they can get shelter, things they need etc. Hell, you HAVE a home, food and what not. You're better off than a lot of people, and by the logic of some, it's your responsibility to let anyone in and take what they need. After all, they need it, and you have it. But here's the rub. You'll also be allowing in people who may wish to victimize you, even hurt or kill you. So, I ask anyone who thinks we should have open borders this: Do you lock your doors?



I never said open borders, but I do think we can process and allow more in (after ice back ground check etc....)

[TFS]

I agree, borders should be enforced. I'm just providing a humanistic point of view.

But there's no logic to your point of view you're trying to provide. What you're saying is that these people cannot be held accountable for their actions. That's total bullshit. Everyone is accountable for their own actions. If their actions break a just and constitutional law, they should be punished accordingly.

[kevinsmith]

I never said open borders, but I do think we can process and allow more in (after ice back ground check etc....)

I know you didn't....

To anyone who can read this: If you never said we should have open borders, my post didn't apply to you. :) To those who can't read it....well...I can pretty much say whatever the fuck I want, eh? You're mother's a whore. A cheap one at that. No wonder...her snatch smelled like feet.

[BlueMind]

But there's no logic to your point of view you're trying to provide. What you're saying is that these people cannot be held accountable for their actions. That's total bullshit. Everyone is accountable for their own actions. If their actions break a just and constitutional law, they should be punished accordingly.

I still hold to that point of view. Laws mean little when the two options are to attempt at a better life for your family without really hurting anyone or to obey a law which prevents you from doing so.

Self preservation is natural. If you lived in a shitty country and your children had no prospect of getting an education or making anything of themselves, or even living decent lives, would you really feel obligated to follow a law that tells you that you can't get into your nieghbouring, prosperous country? I wouldn't.

The obvious argument to this is legal immigration. Well, bro, it's kinda hard nowdays if you're poor.

[vtsquire]

LOL, Seattle U receives most of its funding from private organizations, friends, and wealthy philanthropists. It's a private university, much like Harvard.

Anyway, good read, I'll respond to the rest in no particular order.

point taken, and in that respect.... who the hell are these students to deny job opportunities to other students or perhaps.... to the illegals themselves? Who knows, maybe they want to work the border someday.

[Endless]

We are a people of laws and of order. If you break the law, you are punished.

Why not them?

Are you punished every time you go 1 mph over the speed limit? We are people who pick and choose which laws to obey, based on if the law is strictly enforced.

[ric]

Are you punished every time you go 1 mph over the speed limit? We are people who pick and choose which laws to obey, based on if the law is strictly enforced.

Can you be so kind as to tell me where you reside?

[TFS]

I still hold to that point of view. Laws mean little when the two options are to attempt at a better life for your family without really hurting anyone or to obey a law which prevents you from doing so.

Self preservation is natural. If you lived in a shitty country and your children had no prospect of getting an education or making anything of themselves, or even living decent lives, would you really feel obligated to follow a law that tells you that you can't get into your nieghbouring, prosperous country? I wouldn't.

The obvious argument to this is legal immigration. Well, bro, it's kinda hard nowdays if you're poor.

But we hardly operate on a natural level.

If they want a better life because their government has failed them, they need to overthrow it or effect some other reform. Their nation's failures does not justify them relocating to our nation and causing all the same problems in a new location being the only change, and ruining this nation for the rest of us.

Again: fuck illegal immigrants, they're only justified if you want to encourage selfishness.

[Spike Lee]

But we hardly operate on a natural level.

If they want a better life because their government has failed them, they need to overthrow it or effect some other reform. Their nation's failures does not justify them relocating to our nation and causing all the same problems in a new location being the only change, and ruining this nation for the rest of us.

Again: fuck illegal immigrants, they're only justified if you want to encourage selfishness.

But they don't. Which is exactly why this social darwinist let the market decide shit is just that, shit. Oh wait, in the long run it will work. Maybe so, but in the long run, you're dead. It's not like they're purposely doing this to make this nation shit.

[TFS]

But they don't. Which is exactly why this social darwinist let the market decide shit is just that, shit. Oh wait, in the long run it will work. Maybe so, but in the long run, you're dead. It's not like they're purposely doing this to make this nation shit.

But that's what will happen: all these people making money under the table, thousands using our welfare, but not paying taxes. It's causing problems and will continue to do so, especially at the rate at which it is increasing.

[kevinsmith]

These are the types of things that upset people who, while aren't anti-immigration, do have a problem with people coming here and then bitching. It used to be people came to this country, embraced the way of life that they were seeking. Now, they prefer to bash this country, and seem to want it to be like the one they for some reason fled.

http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-7005


I first got this in an email, then googled "Kids hang mexican flag at school" and this is the first site that came up.

[_Joe]

If they are here illegally, they SHOULD feel unsafe, they're breaking a law.

[Patunox]

These are the types of things that upset people who, while aren't anti-immigration, do have a problem with people coming here and then bitching. It used to be people came to this country, embraced the way of life that they were seeking. Now, they prefer to bash this country, and seem to want it to be like the one they for some reason fled.

http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-7005


I first got this in an email, then googled "Kids hang mexican flag at school" and this is the first site that came up.

What about the Immigration Reform rallies? It was mostly white, red, and blue pride. But HEY, as long as they're not burning the flag, nobody seems to care. Expressing love for their culture? Nothing wrong with that, although it seems rebellious to hang the American flag upside down.

I like this video better:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=GOViVi-6IVo

It's logical that people who want to become legalized love this country so much as to break the law, wouldn't you think? No human being is illegal, the correct term is "undocumented."

[TFS]

What about the Immigration Reform rallies? It was mostly white, red, and blue pride. But HEY, as long as they're not burning the flag, nobody seems to care. Expressing love for their culture? Nothing wrong with that, although it seems rebellious to hang the American flag upside down.

I like this video better:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=GOViVi-6IVo

It's logical that people who want to become legalized love this country so much as to break the law, wouldn't you think? No human being is illegal, the correct term is "undocumented."

No, it's logical that people who want to become legalized love this country so much as to come here legally and get a green card.

No human being is illegal, but trespassing is. They're not going to adhere to the laws of my country, I'm not going to honor their desire for a politically correct label. Fuck them.

[Patunox]

Yes, fuck illegal immigration. I guess that's how people settled in Native American lands in the first place, I'm pretty sure they were like "Fuck 'em" too, right? Ptf.
They're not going to adhere to the laws of my country
YOUR country? :lmao:

You know how that song goes, "This land is my land, this land is your land..."

But from a humanistic point of view, you can't stop the desire of people to simply want a better life, people have the right to freedom, liberty, and overall a better quality of life.

[TFS]

Yes, fuck illegal immigration. I guess that's how people settled in Native American lands in the first place, I'm pretty sure they were like "Fuck 'em" too, right? Ptf.

That has nothing to do with this, honestly. If you're going to trash white people for that, how can you defend Mexicans for it? These people from south of the border are not native to the land they're illegally entering. They wetren't born here.

Are you trying to tell me 2 wrongs, even when the second isn't committed by the original victim, makes a right?

YOUR country? :lmao:

Yes, it is. I was born here, I'm registered here, I obey the laws in place here, and I have volunteered to fight and die for here. I am, by my place of birth, a Native American. I may have European ancestors, but I myself am Native American.

You know how that song goes, "This land is my land, this land is your land..."

Does not apply to illegal invaders and people who wish to come here and deliberately break our laws, especially in ways that could place other people in harm's way, such as driving without a liscense.

But from a humanistic point of view, you can't stop the desire of people to simply want a better life, people have the right to freedom, liberty, and overall a better quality of life.

I can't stop their desire, but I can stop their illegal actions. If they want life, liberty and a better quality of life, then they need to accept the responsibility that comes with it all, and that includes following the rules and laws of the land they occupy.

If they really want that stuff, they'd do themselves and their children and us all better by, instead of immigrating, especially illegally, reforming their own government and making the land they originate in a better place instead of coming here and lowering the quality of life in our nation.

Yes, fuck illegal immigration, and fuck illegal immigrants, and fuck people that support illegal immigration and effectively shit on the efforts made by everyon who has ever immigrated anywhere by legal means.

[kevinsmith]

Yes, fuck illegal immigration. I guess that's how people settled in Native American lands in the first place, I'm pretty sure they were like "Fuck 'em" too, right? Ptf.

YOUR country? :lmao:

You know how that song goes, "This land is my land, this land is your land..."

But from a humanistic point of view, you can't stop the desire of people to simply want a better life, people have the right to freedom, liberty, and overall a better quality of life.

Seriously, that's just idealistic nonsense. When you want to join the rest of us in reality, then we'll talk.
If you really want to follow that line of logic, I want you to go back to something I posted in this thread a while ago. Don't lock your doors. As someone who has things, it's your responsiblity to let others have you things if they don't have them. You're better off, so why should you be so selfish as to deny them access to your home, your comforts etc.

[hawk16]

Kevinsmith makes very good points here.


If you've ever lived in Arizona for a long period of time you'd understand how hard illegal immigration is hitting this country. I am originally from New England, and when I moved down to Arizona my whole mindset of what illegal immigrants were changed. I used to think the same thing, that they worked hard and were just trying to make a life for themselves. But when you see these wastes of life doing nothing but mooching off other people down here in Arizona your whole perspective changes.