"Guantanamo produced terrorists"

[chrisvet]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclatchy/20080618/wl_mcclatchy/2969823


Militants found recruits among Guantanamo's wrongly detained


By Tom Lasseter, McClatchy Newspapers
Wed Jun 18, 5:24 PM ET


GARDEZ, Afghanistan - Mohammed Naim Farouq was a thug in the lawless Zormat district of eastern Afghanistan . He ran a kidnapping and extortion racket, and he controlled his turf with a band of gunmen who rode around in trucks with AK-47 rifles.

U.S. troops detained him in 2002, although he had no clear ties to the Taliban or al Qaida. By the time Farouq was released from Guantanamo the next year, however - after more than 12 months of what he described as abuse and humiliation at the hands of American soldiers - he'd made connections to high-level militants.

In fact, he'd become a Taliban leader. When the U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency released a stack of 20 "most wanted" playing cards in 2006 identifying militants in Afghanistan and Pakistan - with Osama bin Laden at the top - Farouq was 16 cards into the deck.

A McClatchy investigation found that instead of confining terrorists, Guantanamo often produced more of them by rounding up common criminals, conscripts, low-level foot soldiers and men with no allegiance to radical Islam - thus inspiring a deep hatred of the United States in them - and then housing them in cells next to radical Islamists.

Guantanamo is not alone. Hundreds of thousands of killed / maimed as a result of US intervention & 60 years of meddling where we didn't belong is the fuel that powers the terrorist factories. When groups of people (criminals / attack victims / citizens) feel threatened, differences are put aside to fight a common enemy: America.

[Fungus Amungus]

It happens in every country with every justice system in the world. The only way to prevent it is total isolation in the prisons.

[TFS]

It happens in every country with every justice system in the world. The only way to prevent it is total isolation in the prisons.

Not even that...once they are released, they'll still go to their local terror recruitment officer to get payback.

The only real answer is actually issuing formal charges and timely releases and compensation for those wrongly detained.

[FugginBastid]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclatchy/20080618/wl_mcclatchy/2969823


Guantanamo is not alone. Hundreds of thousands of killed / maimed as a result of US intervention & 60 years of meddling where we didn't belong is the fuel that powers the terrorist factories. When groups of people (criminals / attack victims / citizens) feel threatened, differences are put aside to fight a common enemy: America.

OK, than we shall KILL them.

I don't care their "reasons" for wanting death and destrustion to Americans. If that's their intent, then they will be stopped, DEAD in their tracks.

[chrisvet]

OK, than we shall KILL them.

I don't care their "reasons" for wanting death and destrustion to Americans. If that's their intent, then they will be stopped, DEAD in their tracks.

shhhh :lol: (we're being wiretapped.)

[FugginBastid]

shhhh :lol: (we're being wiretapped.)

Good! Tell Bin Laden and Co., I DARE them to meet me, any time, and place.:lol:

[Quick_Draw21]

Good! Tell Bin Laden and Co., I DARE them to meet me, any time, and place.:lol:

So whats stopping you from going?

[Spike Lee]

I think he once said he was 17 and couldn't join the Army yet. If thats true, a lot of his other claims are false. Either way, this is a good point to bring up against those wanting to imprison others without regard to habeus corpus. But it's not the ultimate reason. The ultimate reason is a moral one.

[TFS]

I think he once said he was 17 and couldn't join the Army yet. If thats true, a lot of his other claims are false. Either way, this is a good point to bring up against those wanting to imprison others without regard to habeus corpus. But it's not the ultimate reason. The ultimate reason is a moral one.

Oh I do hope we can find that post!

[rebeldave]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclatchy/20080618/wl_mcclatchy/2969823


Guantanamo is not alone. Hundreds of thousands of killed / maimed as a result of US intervention & 60 years of meddling where we didn't belong is the fuel that powers the terrorist factories. When groups of people (criminals / attack victims / citizens) feel threatened, differences are put aside to fight a common enemy: America.

If US intervention was the only thing creating terrorism then how do you explain the attacks on the Danish Embassy in Islamabad last month? Do a little research into the causes for that situation and then try to explain to me how you feel staying out of other countries' affairs would make us safer.

[_Joe]

OK, than we shall KILL them.

I don't care their "reasons" for wanting death and destrustion to Americans. If that's their intent, then they will be stopped, DEAD in their tracks.

More humane and legal detention tactics would mean less people to kill.

[OMFG FORUM RAGE]

So whats stopping you from going?

welll Osama is MIA so the challenge is kinda pointless if you have the two challengers in two different places thousands of miles away from eachother

[chrisvet]

If US intervention was the only thing creating terrorism then how do you explain the attacks on the Danish Embassy in Islamabad last month? Do a little research into the causes for that situation and then try to explain to me how you feel staying out of other countries' affairs would make us safer.

Correction: The only person who said US intervention is the only thing creating terrorism is you; the research you're requesting was conducted & reported on by the CIA & recently brought to center stage during a national televised republican debate.

[Spike Lee]

The CIA report states that a major reason 9/11 happened was because of blowback. But that doesn't excuse it though.

[chrisvet]

That CIA report never said it was the only reason, it claimed that it was a contributor or a major contributor.

Remarkable day Spike, not only do I agree with you, but you have a better avatar. :boink:


Of course their are other reasons aside from blowback.

Indeed, the op article offers one, perhaps you can add the list of reasons you're talking about instead of leaving us in the dark?

Do go on.

Edit: opps, I see you changed your response. Too bad, I've already finished responding to it.

[Spike Lee]

Remarkable day Spike, not only do I agree with you, but you have a better avatar. :boink:



Indeed, the op article offers one, perhaps you can add the list of reasons you're talking about instead of leaving us in the dark?

Do go on.

Edit: opps, I see you changed your response. Too bad, I've already finished responding to it.

Blowback
CIA & FBI failing
Islamofacism
Immigration

[FugginBastid]

I think he once said he was 17 and couldn't join the Army yet. If thats true, a lot of his other claims are false. Either way, this is a good point to bring up against those wanting to imprison others without regard to habeus corpus. But it's not the ultimate reason. The ultimate reason is a moral one.

If you're speaking to me, I'm 39. And yes, I have been "over there" during GW1.

[TFS]

If you're speaking me, I'm 39. And yes, I have been "over there" during GW1.

Prove it, please.

[chrisvet]

Blowback
CIA & FBI failing
Islamofacism
Immigration
Excellent.
Can you briefly explain how each one helps create terrorism by using a specific example?

[Spike Lee]

Excellent.
Can you briefly explain how each one helps create terrorism by using a specific example?

Blowback - We infuriated the likes of Israel-hating individuals there. They all got mad, and decided to hit us back and want us to stop supporting Israel.

The CIA & FBI failed - They failed to gather information regarding the specifics of the attacks and plans. prior to the day.

Islamofacism - A mindset that seeks to reclaim Israel/ convert non Muslims to Muslims.

Immigration - Failed to do it's job and deporting some of the plotters on expired visas.

*Bush/Clinton - For failing to capture Osama/AQ

*debateable.

[chrisvet]

Blowback - We infuriated the likes of Israel-hating individuals there. They all got mad, and decided to hit us back and want us to stop supporting Israel.

The CIA & FBI failed - They failed to gather information regarding the specifics of the attacks and plans. prior to the day.

Islamofacism - A mindset that seeks to reclaim Israel/ convert non Muslims to Muslims.

Immigration - Failed to do it's job and deporting some of the plotters on expired visas.

*Bush/Clinton - For failing to capture Osama/AQ

*debateable.

Excellent conversation, I hope this will become a trend.

[rebeldave]

Correction: The only person who said US intervention is the only thing creating terrorism is you; the research you're requesting was conducted & reported on by the CIA & recently brought to center stage during a national televised republican debate.

OK, so it isn't the only thing creating terrorism. I misspoke. Nowhere in my post was I asking about why 9/11 happened. I asked you to research why the attacks on the Danish Embassy in Islamabad happened less than a month ago. Either way, what is your solution? If fighting radical Islam is breeding terrorists, and countries that don't fight radical Islam are still becoming the victims of terrorism simply because they allow free speech, how do you solve the problem?

[chrisvet]

OK, so it isn't the only thing creating terrorism. I misspoke. Nowhere in my post was I asking about why 9/11 happened. I asked you to research why the attacks on the Danish Embassy in Islamabad happened less than a month ago. Either way, what is your solution? If fighting radical Islam is breeding terrorists, and countries that don't fight radical Islam are still becoming the victims of terrorism simply because they allow free speech, how do you solve the problem?

Dave my man, I wasn't talking about the Danish Embassy and quite honestly have no idea what the root is. The nature of this conversation was to pinpoint reasons why our gov't fucked up, along with what contributes to the creation of anti American terrorists. And with Spike's recent addition, we now have some pretty good ideas to discuss. That said though, if you or anyone else can find out more about the Embassy, please post it.

One thing I will say is there is very likely a good reason they attacked the Danish Embassy, but we may never find out. Why? One of the downfalls of our media is 95% of it is owned by 6 mega corporations with direct ties to Israeli interests. If that’s not the case with your example, perhaps we all could add more info to this thread as we find it.

Also, to share a bit of evidence that Western media is completely full of shit, here are 2 combined vids in 1, the real version, and the BBC censored version of someone very important to us (now dead) claiming Osama Bin Laden was murdered. Watch how the BBC journalist ignored her after she made the claim. You'd think a statement like that coming from a now Martyr would be all over the western media, but it wasn’t. It is argued the purpose of this is to keep us believing in an invisible boogey man to continually perpetuate war, profit bankers who loan us the money, profit the military industrial complex, and to further destabilize Israel’s enemies.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGAOH_E3aQQ&feature=related
Please ignore the idiot who made the video and his comments during the presentation, he should be kicked in the nuts for having a high pitched voice and getting emotional.

[rebeldave]

Dave my man, I wasn't talking about the Danish Embassy and quite honestly have no idea what the root is. The nature of this conversation was to pinpoint reasons why our gov't fucked up, along with what contributes to the creation of anti American terrorists. And with Spike's recent addition, we now have some pretty good ideas to discuss. That said though, if you or anyone else can find out more about the Embassy, please post it.

One thing I will say is there is very likely a good reason they attacked the Danish Embassy, but we may never find out. Why? One of the downfalls of our media is 95% of it is owned by 6 mega corporations with direct ties to Israeli interests. If that’s not the case with your example, perhaps we all could add more info to this thread as we find it.

Also, to share a bit of evidence that Western media is completely full of shit, here are 2 combined vids in 1, the real version, and the BBC censored version of someone very important to us (now dead) claiming Osama Bin Laden was murdered. Watch how the BBC journalist ignored her after she made the claim. You'd think a statement like that coming from a now Martyr would be all over the western media, but it wasn’t. It is argued the purpose of this is to keep us believing in an invisible boogey man to continually perpetuate war, profit bankers who loan us the money, profit the military industrial complex, and to further destabilize Israel’s enemies.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGAOH_E3aQQ&feature=related
Please ignore the idiot who made the video and his comments during the presentation, he should be kicked in the nuts for having a high pitched voice and getting emotional.

The cause of the attacks on the Danish Embassy are well known to anyone that does a little research into the issue. You clearly have not done so. In fact, on June 5th, Mustafa Abu al-Yazid posted on a jihadist website that the reasoning behind the attack was that Denmark allowed the now famous cartoons of Mohamed to be published. They were not intervening in anybody's business, simply allowing free speech. What is your plan for America to avoid those kinds of attacks? I would really like an answer to that rather than simple speculation about possible motives for war.

[Mojoe77]

The cause of the attacks on the Danish Embassy are well known to anyone that does a little research into the issue. You clearly have not done so. In fact, on June 5th, Mustafa Abu al-Yazid posted on a jihadist website that the reasoning behind the attack was that Denmark allowed the now famous cartoons of Mohamed to be published. They were not intervening in anybody's business, simply allowing free speech. What is your plan for America to avoid those kinds of attacks? I would really like an answer to that rather than simple speculation about possible motives for war.

Here's the source for the Danish Embassy bombing:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080602/wl_sthasia_afp/pakistanattacksdenmark

[Dayve]

I've been saying this for a long time...

All those people left with dead husbands/wives/brothers/sisters/friends/fathers/mothers/sons/daughters in Iraq, Afghanistan and all other places that that the USA has been screwing over for decades want revenge. They're not grateful that you overthrew a shitty leader, because your trigger happy soldiers killed half the fucking country in the process, then posted videos every day belittling and insulting the people your leader preaches you "have freed from tyranny".

There's a reason the entire world hates the USA, and that's because the USA has given the entire world good reason to hate them.

[chrisvet]

The cause of the attacks on the Danish Embassy are well known to anyone that does a little research into the issue. You clearly have not done so. In fact, on June 5th, Mustafa Abu al-Yazid posted on a jihadist website that the reasoning behind the attack was that Denmark allowed the now famous cartoons of Mohamed to be published. They were not intervening in anybody's business, simply allowing free speech.

Bingo, you brought the subject up, you elaborated your position. A win/win.


What is your plan for America to avoid those kinds of attacks? I would really like an answer to that rather than simple speculation about possible motives for war.
No idea, whats your suggestion? Maybe you can give us a bit of background in the USA, eg: does this type of fun get poked in American papers @ Muslims, and if so how do they react?

Here's the source for the Danish Embassy bombing:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080602...attacksdenmark

Thanks Mojo, I'll refresh my memory ;)

All those people left with dead husbands/wives/brothers/sisters/friends/fathers/mothers/sons/daughters in Iraq, Afghanistan and all other places that that the USA has been screwing over for decades want revenge. They're not grateful that you overthrew a shitty leader, because your trigger happy soldiers killed half the fucking country in the process, then posted videos every day belittling and insulting the people your leader preaches you "have freed from tyranny".

Logic points to this. If the roles were reversed the last 60 years, we'd be pretty fucking pissed off.

[pinger]

If you're speaking to me, I'm 39. And yes, I have been "over there" during GW1.

AAaaaah, so you have been anal probed as well. It explains it all

[Chupacabra]

Blowback - We infuriated the likes of Israel-hating individuals there. They all got mad, and decided to hit us back and want us to stop supporting Israel.

The CIA & FBI failed - They failed to gather information regarding the specifics of the attacks and plans. prior to the day.

Islamofacism - A mindset that seeks to reclaim Israel/ convert non Muslims to Muslims.

Immigration - Failed to do it's job and deporting some of the plotters on expired visas.

*Bush/Clinton - For failing to capture Osama/AQ

*debateable.
I would agree that last point is debatable, although I happen to agree with it. I think some of the blame should go to the first bush administration for giving Al-Qeida billions of dollars to fight the soviets.