Why support Bush?

[Lestatdelc]

Why does/should anyone support Bush by voting for him in the upcoming election...?

[limak116]

Because we want the US to become a third-world country sometime in the future.

[Lestatdelc]

Because we want the US to become a third-world country sometime in the future.

LOL

God one.

[bingowashisnamo]

Because it's never too soon to usher-in the Rapture.

[will123ab]

Because if Kerry is elected there will be a 9/11 every day because he will cut military funding.

[Brucecris]

Because if Kerry is elected there will be a 9/11 every day because he will cut military funding.

where did you see that he WILL cut funding?

[limak116]

Because if we don't vote for him the boogie men will get us.

[Jay-Z]

Because republicans generally disagree with a lot of things kerry stands for

[puppyroach]

Because they have a personal deathwish... :rolleyes:

[sk0aL]

Why does/should anyone support Bush by voting for him in the upcoming election...?


Because some of us actually care about the security of our nation.

[Massive]

Because John Kerry has a big head and he's a flip floper

[Ruzan]

Kerry is a worthless excuse for a human.

Example, you and a bunch of pals go out one night and paintball a bunch of houses and shit. The next day you wake up, go to the police station and tell on your pals and then go on TV and explain how paintballing is evil and the people who paintball are disgusting and should be arrested. Kerry did this, except him and his pals didnt play paintball, they played Vietnam.

Kerrys wife is the CEO of Heinz co., a popular tomato company. Kerry suggests that President Bush's policies have cut "Good American jobs", meanwhile Kerry's wife shuts down ALL BUT 2 Heinz factories in the US and ships all the rest to third world shit-holes where little brown people can make the stuff cheaper.

I am a big-time conservative and even I agree the Iraq situation was handled wrong, but I feel very safe knowing we have a man in the White House who respects the military and understands why we need to take care of our service men and women.

-Ruzan

[will123ab]

BruceCris-
Dont you remember. . . "I actually did vote for the $87 Billion...Before I voted against it". ??

[puppyroach]

I´ve just one question: has America become a safer place during Bush´s time at the office, both forreign and domestic? I don´t think you´ve had a president that has caused so much animosity around the world, adn divided the country so much as he has...

[dead]

Kerry is a worthless excuse for a human.

Example, you and a bunch of pals go out one night and paintball a bunch of houses and shit. The next day you wake up, go to the police station and tell on your pals and then go on TV and explain how paintballing is evil and the people who paintball are disgusting and should be arrested. Kerry did this, except him and his pals didnt play paintball, they played Vietnam.

Kerrys wife is the CEO of Heinz co., a popular tomato company. Kerry suggests that President Bush's policies have cut "Good American jobs", meanwhile Kerry's wife shuts down ALL BUT 2 Heinz factories in the US and ships all the rest to third world shit-holes where little brown people can make the stuff cheaper.

I am a big-time conservative and even I agree the Iraq situation was handled wrong, but I feel very safe knowing we have a man in the White House who respects the military and understands why we need to take care of our service men and women.

-Ruzan
i hate it that you americans vote for kerry/bush because bush/kerry is bigger asshole
why don't you vote for a guy who support what you believe in.
bush and kerry are both skull and bones members so it don't make it a different where you vote for.
first do some research about skull and bones and bohemian grove then you know there is no real big different between the 2
why do you think so many poeple say they have choose the lesser one of 2 evils.
why you don't chose a third party there are so much third party parties just look at their campaign most are a lot better than kerry/bush his party.

[Massive]

you are from sweden, we dont care about what you think.

[puppyroach]

you are from sweden, we dont care about what you think.

And your comment shows you´re probably dummer than Bush, so go right ahead and vote for him... ;)

[Rabid]

you are from sweden, we dont care about what you think.


He has an education. So I care about what he thinks.

[Dasani]

I vote Bush because I wont vote for Kerry. Others vote Kerry cause they dont like Bush thats pretty much what it all boils down to. If you dont like Kerry then you can find many reasons to like Bush. If you dont like Bush you can find many reasons to like Kerry. People have different opinions, and I will say neither of these guys are great for a President. Usually you vote for a guy based on like a few views that they have such as abortion and gay marriages. I am sure that people voting for Kerry dont agree with everything he says but they agree with some of the things they think are important, same goes for Bush voters.

[Brucecris]

BruceCris-
Dont you remember. . . "I actually did vote for the $87 Billion...Before I voted against it". ??

will,

apart from what kerry said and apart from this election, one thing that is a serious concern is how all politicians, in both parties, use voting record so seriously in elections when in reality a lot of the bills that we see have smaller little parts of them that politicians "squeeze" into the bills. IF one particular politician votes against a bill for the reason that they dont like a "part" of that bill (not the bill as a whole), it makes it look as if they voted against the whole bill's philosphy so to speak - when in reality they may only dislike a portion of that bill.

In kerry's case he voted agaisnt that bill because of a 20 billion "slush" fund that was supposed to be used for the reparations to iraq. Of couse he wants to support the troops. He knew it would pass. it was a protest vote against it. he didnt like that that money was "open" and not earmarked for specific uses. And it turns out that he might have been right since only 17 million of that money has been used to this date. Im not an expert on iraq and the money we've spent but i would think that 20 billion could go a long way at home instead of just sitting there. And even if we dont spend if at home use the money in iraq already...

but with that aside both parties still use voting record in that same context. it sucks that sens and reps dont have some sort of line item veto/vote like the pres does. In any case i respect your beliefs...even if i think you are wrong. :)

Its all good.

[Lestatdelc]

Because if Kerry is elected there will be a 9/11 every day because he will cut military funding.

Total horse-shit.

Kerry will NOT cut military funding, and the most effective antiterrorism spending and efforts are not military, but intelligence and cooperative law enforcement and investigation with other countries which require diplomatic skill and nuance, something Bush has demonstratively shown himself 100% incapable of.

All of the above needed approaches will be increased under Kerry.

So you are voting for Bush under the 100% false impression you have of reality?

[Lestatdelc]

Because republicans generally disagree with a lot of things kerry stands for

You mean GOPs disagree with peace, prosperity, and eqaulity under the law...?

Wow.

;)

[MalteseFalcon]

I´ve just one question: has America become a safer place during Bush´s time at the office, both forreign and domestic? I don´t think you´ve had a president that has caused so much animosity around the world, adn divided the country so much as he has...

The same could be said of Ronald Reagan while he was in office.

[Lestatdelc]

Because John Kerry has a big head and he's a flip floper

Big-head...?

Flip-flopper... you mean like:

Bush flip-flops:

1. Pro-Choice during his failed run for Congress in ’73. Flippity floppity, hocus pocus, presto, Pro-Life today.

2. Said he’d put invading Iraq to a vote in the UN (like he promised Congress when they authorized his war resolution), flip-flopped, and withdrew the motion when it became obvious the UN vote would fail.

3. Said he supported strong free trade, then flip-flopped with steel tarriffs (to woo votes from the depressed US steel industry workers before the mid-terms), then he flip-flopped again on his promises to the steelworkers after the election.

4. In Campaign 2000, to woo environmental votes, Bush said he supported emission controls on CO2; after the election, he flip-flopped and said it wasn’t an issue he takes seriously. (this was a lie and a flip-flop)

5. Opposed McCain-Feingold campaign reform, flip flopped when it looked like it was going to pass, and supported it

6. Opposed creation of Homeland Security Dept, flip-flopped and supported it when it looked like Joe Lieberman was going to get tons of credit for offering the proposal.

7. Opposed creation of the 9/11 Commission, flip flopped and says he not only supports it, but has fully cooperated with it in every way.

8. Opposed extension of the 9/11 Commission deadline (which would seem to NOT be "fully" cooperating with its requests - see flip-flop above), flip flopped when the public became outraged at their obvious obstruction.

9. Opposed, on principle remember, Condi Rice publicly testifying under oath, flip-flopped after Rice’s week of media appearances failed to quash the Clarke story and generally made the "principle" Bush was protecting look silly.

10. "Gay marriage is a states’ rights issue"; flip-flop, "We need a constitutional amendment."

11. Pledged to fully fund the Low Income Home Energy Assistance Program on the campaign trail in 2000, flip-flopped and cut LIHEA funding by half a billion dollars.

12. In an episode of bravado, said the US wouldn’t apologize to China over the 2001 spy plane collision, flip-flopped and quietly sent them an apology that said the US was "very sorry".

13. Aginst nation-building, flip-flop, for nation-building in Iraq.

14. Supports our troops, flip-flop, cuts their benefits (including VA benefits and combat pay)

15. Won’t negotiate with North Korea, flip-flop, negotiating with North Korea

16. Pledged to have "democracy" in Iraq by June 30th, flip-flop, now its "sovereignty" by June 30th

17. And this one is clearly my favorite, and a reverse flip-flop, because Bush went from truth to lie: In 2002, Bush said he didn’t have a sense of urgency about the terrorist threat before 9/11; now he claims he was really focused on terrorism (ironically contradicting his earlier truthful admission, since he didn’t actually do anything about terrorism before 9/11)

18. Pledged to not use 9/11 for political purposes, flip-flopped almost as soon as he utterred those words, and since 9/12 has been campaigning while wrapped in the Americna Flag as "the War President."


Like those real flip-flops...?

Please point to real Kerry "flip-flops".

And I will LOVE it if you try the $87 vote.. or the vote for authorization of force vote... as those are not flip flops but gross distortions of the actual record.

[Bubba-E]

Because if Kerry is elected there will be a 9/11 every day because he will cut military funding.

exactly

neither bush nor kerry are great, but i like bush better

kerry is just to vague about all these "plans"

every speach and interview i have seen about kerry

he NEVER talks about details, all he says is that he has a plan and hope is coming

well hope has already come, 4 years ago in the form of a man with initials GWB

kerry = 4/10
bush = 6/10

on my scale at least :rolleyes:

EDIT- ........... good god lestatdelc..

some of that stuff is true, some of it doesnt even matter, and the rest are lies

like i said, bush isnt perfect, but hes better than kerry

jsut because bush goofed a few times it doesnt mean kerry is any better, kerry as only shown his dark side, and never even talks about how he is going to help this country, hes more interested in dancing on a stage infront of 10,000 brainwashed people with his fugly wife

[Asbestos Crayon]

Hmmm... maybe because I am a Democrat that is voting for Bush this will make some sense.

Kerry has changed his point too much. One day he says he's against the war, the next day he's for the war. He's against a funding bill, he's for a funding bill. That tells me he doesn't have a plan that goes beyond getting elected. So, the man is doing nothing but double talk according to what town he is in.

Now, I realize Bush is not the brightest candle in the box, but he seem's to have a predictable nature. And when you have some one with a predictable nature, you can do business with them. Call me crazy, but Democrats bitching that they can't get a bill passes under this guy just goes to show they are not crafty enough. I mean, they all say he is dumb, but they can't seem to get anything by him? I guess that would mean they are dumber.

Besides, like Mr. Heinze said, we all want to make hell on earth by not voting for Mrs. Heinze.

Edit: Lestedelc, learn to use the edit button and quit double posting. Your new so we are cutting you some slack here.

[BigMattTheHobo]

You guys need to get some better reasons to be anti kerry.

He "flip flops" because he has senate experience and realizes that bills do change. You guys really want someone in office who has their mind set on something in concrete and won't change his mind for anything? I hope you don't. Because the world changes and bills change.

[Bubba-E]

Hmmm... maybe because I am a Democrat that is voting for Bush this will make some sense.

Kerry has changed his point too much. One day he says he's against the war, the next day he's for the war. He's against a funding bill, he's for a funding bill. That tells me he doesn't have a plan that goes beyond getting elected. So, the man is doing nothing but double talk according to what town he is in.

Now, I realize Bush is not the brightest candle in the box, but he seem's to have a predictable nature. And when you have some one with a predictable nature, you can do business with them. Call me crazy, but Democrats bitching that they can't get a bill passes under this guy just goes to show they are not crafty enough. I mean, they all say he is dumb, but they can't seem to get anything by him? I guess that would mean they are dumber.

Besides, like Mr. Heinze said, we all want to make hell on earth by not voting for Mrs. Heinze.

Edit: Lestedelc, learn to use the edit button and quit double posting. Your new so we are cutting you some slack here.

EXACTLY!!! kerry hardly makes up his mind

in a local paper there was some art on the front page, it was kerry on a tv saying with is hand pointing up like politicions usaly do:

"I'm john kerry and i aprove this message, as soon as i figur out was it is"

that was so funny my pure-republican mom felt sorry for the bitch

[Lestatdelc]

Kerry is a worthless excuse for a human.

Example, you and a bunch of pals go out one night and paintball a bunch of houses and shit. The next day you wake up, go to the police station and tell on your pals and then go on TV and explain how paintballing is evil and the people who paintball are disgusting and should be arrested. Kerry did this, except him and his pals didnt play paintball, they played Vietnam.

Talk about an ignorant misreading of Vietnam and reality. Vietnam was war sold on a lie, when Kerry went and served honorably, and saw the lie Vietnam was, he rightfully, and courageously stood up and opposed the war and the abuses committed in a war based on a lie.

That is called principles and character.

Kerrys wife is the CEO of Heinz co.

100% fiction. She is not the CEO of ANY company. She has a trust fund that her ex-husband (who died) left her and whose family once owned the Heinz Co., but which now is a publicly owned one.

Educate yourself and stop spreading lies.

I am a big-time conservative

Who is grossly misinformed.

even I agree the Iraq situation was handled wrong

Glad to hear you recognize that Bush is wholly incompetent as Commander and Chief. So why do you support him...?

but I feel very safe knowing we have a man in the White House who respects the military

But he doesn't. He sends our military into unjust, unneeded misguided wars of choice (just like Vietnam). He also sought to cut combat pay for our troops in Afghanistan and Iraq. Sought to cut VA benefits. Pushed to close down VA hospitals, and lied and pushed to send our military to be shoot at for no legitimate need or purpose in Iraq.

On April 2, 2003, the U.S. Senate unanimously voted to increase pay for soldiers in "imminent danger" areas by 50 percent. Pay for families of active-duty troops was increased 150 percent. The increase was the first to imminent-danger pay since the first Gulf War, and the first to families since 1997. The increases were temporary, and set to expire at the end of the current fiscal year on September 30. Bush's Defense Department effectively decided "to cut the pay of its 148,000 U.S. troops in Iraq, who are already contending with guerrilla-style attacks, homesickness and 120-degree-plus heat" by opposing renewal of the pay raises.

After criticism from Democrats, the Pentagon announced that current salaries for troops in Iraq and Afghanistan would not be cut, but such efforts may come at the expense of troops serving elsewhere. [Knight-Ridder, 4/5/03; Los Angeles Times, 4/3/03; CQ, 4/16/03; San Francisco Chronicle, 8/14/03; Army Times, 8/13/03; 8/20/03]

This year Bush proposed increasing prescription drugs costs for veterans. The Bush plan would have included a new $250 enrollment fee and a co pay increase from $7 to $15 for veterans earning over $24,000. On July 21, the House Appropriations Committee agreed to a Democratic amendment to reject the Bush fee increases and recoup the $264 million in costs by reducing administrative funding for the Department of Veterans Affairs. [Reuters, 7/14/03; Washington Post, 7/22/03]

On January 16, 2003, the Bush Administration announced it would cut access to health care benefits for 160,000 middle-income veterans due to budget constraints. John Pettyjohn, an Oklahoma veteran who served in Vietnam, said of the cuts, "On one hand, we're sending our sons and daughters out to war and possibly to die, yet on the other hand we're punishing a certain class of veterans who've made money in their lives. The government made a promise to us. What they're doing now is wrong." [Associated Press, 1/16/03; The Daily Oklahoman, 1/18/03]

In early August 2003, the Bush administration announced it was closing hospitals in its efforts to "restructure" the Department of Veterans Affairs. The administration is closing hospitals in:
• Canandaigua, N.Y.
• Pittsburgh
• Lexington, Ky.
• Brecksville, Ohio
• Gulfport, Miss.
• Livermore, Calif.
• Waco, Tex.

Joy Ilem, assistant national legislative director for Disabled American Veterans, "questioned the need for closures and other cutbacks. 'Everyone is aware of the difficulty VA has meeting demand,' Ilem said. 'When we have hundreds of thousands of veterans on waiting lists (for medical appointments), we don't want to see facilities closed due to fiscal problems.'" There are currently 163 VA hospitals in the US. [Associated Press, 8/4/03, 10/28/03; Department of Veterans Affairs]

In mid-August, as Bush vacationed in Texas, a thousand veterans and supporters rallied in Waco, Texas to protest the closing of that VA hospital. The protestors met at the Waco School District football stadium parking lot "for a rally before driving the 22 miles to Crawford," where Bush was vacationing. "Veterans of Foreign Wars State Commander Ron Hornsby told the stadium crowd that the VA commissioner looking at closing hospitals could harm veterans all across the country, not just in Waco. 'We can never repay the veterans -- we hear those words a lot,' Hornsby said. 'At times like this, those words become very hollow, very meaningless.'" More than 1,500 vets joined a similar October rally to protest a VA closing in New York. [San Antonio Express-News, 8/17/03; Associated Press, 10/20/03, 10/28/03]

This is NOT respecting the military.

Kerry fully respects the military and our vets. John McCain praises Kerry and is close friends with him BECAUSE of Kerry's work for our military people and vets.

So your postion is woefully misguided.

understands why we need to take care of our service men and women.

Cutting their combat pay, cutting the health benefits, cutting VA hospitals and most importantly sending them to get shoot, maimed and killed for a war of choice predicate dona lie is not understanding and taking care of our service men and women.

[Asbestos Crayon]

Sorry for posting so soon again.

That is true Mat, but my experience in leadership possitions says that you just make mass confusion with people and piss a bunch of them off when you don't stick to a plan. At the ground level your idea works, but on the level of a Presidency of a country, command and control is not real time. What you are saying would not have very good effects on the stock market either. People that invest do so with an expectation that the leadership will not change directions too much.

Edit:
First of all I didn't know they were closing the VA in Waco. I will have to ask a college who has an uncle that works there if that is true. Secondly, I can see why if they are consolidating with the one in Temple which is only about 30 miles away. But, I will check out your post since Waco is my stomping ground. Hell, Fort Hood is only 40 miles away. I can see them doing a stabalization at a Waco hospital then transfering to a military one.

http://www.wacotrib.com/news/newsfd/auto/feed/news/2004/07/11/1089524388.18121.0996.1856.html;COXnetJSessionID=B bm90PcLBLGMdCFcnsyelfCdXceav3VzYu4B2kOH9ggdup93JGn I!2064827351?urac=n&urvf=10923310700060.1274280531512776

It sounds to me like they are just restructuring it.

[Lestatdelc]

you are from sweden, we dont care about what you think.

You should, since they are a Democracy and are one of many countries whose cooperation and collaborative efforts we need to help stop terrorists and extremists who seek to does us and other nations harm.

And people wonder why the rest of the world looks at America with disbelief and hatred.

[Lestatdelc]

I vote Bush because I wont vote for Kerry.

Why?

You have not explained why.

[BigMattTheHobo]

Sorry for posting so soon again.

That is true Mat, but my experience in leadership possitions says that you just make mass confusion with people and piss a bunch of them off when you don't stick to a plan. At the ground level your idea works, but on the level of a Presidency of a country, command and control is not real time. What you are saying would not have very good effects on the stock market either. People that invest do so with an expectation that the leadership will not change directions too much.


Well why should you vote yes on a bill again that has been changed?

Maybe some stuff that you don't like has been added. Should you vote yes again just so it seems you have "leadership" and won't change yor mind?



EXACTLY!!! kerry hardly makes up his mind

in a local paper there was some art on the front page, it was kerry on a tv saying with is hand pointing up like politicions usaly do:

"I'm john kerry and i aprove this message, as soon as i figur out was it is"

that was so funny my pure-republican mom felt sorry for the bitch

PLEAAASSSEEEE!!!!! I beg of you, Mr. Lack-of-grammer to please leave, and stay out of current events. All of your posts are lacking in any kind of substance and all have the very, very basic message of "omg, lol, kerry is a dumbass, lol". Please, do us all a favor and leave. I will rep point you everyday you are not here, that is how strongly I feel about you leaving.

Or.... wait.... I have a better idea.... me and you... one on one debate over kerry vs bush, or any other topic. If I win, you leave CE, If you win, well we can decide that *if* you accept this challenge.

[Bubba-E]

Glad to hear you recognize that Bush is wholly incompetent as Commander and Chief. So why do you support him...?

LOL ROFLMAO

the guy said he thought bush mishandled iraq

then just like normal democrats, you twist it all around and mutilate what he says then you spit out "glad to hear you recognize bush is wholly incompetents as commander and chief"

good god man, get a fucken life and educate YOURSELF

p.s. its commander in chief, dumbass

EDIT - hobo, why the HELL should we debate kerry vs. bush when we are both pro-bush?????????

ever notice my "Bush2004" in my sig???

please, actualy have a reason to hate me, and if you do, actualy post it sometime

[Lestatdelc]

BruceCris-
Dont you remember. . . "I actually did vote for the $87 Billion...Before I voted against it". ??

Kerry voted for a version of the bill that would have actually paid for and funded the $87 billion instead of running up the deficit. Bush threatened to veto that bill. Bush's (and the GOPs version) would have spent the same amount as what Kerry voted for, but would have passed the costs onto your kids and grandkids.

So Bush "voted" (by signing) the $87 billion which stuck you, your family, and your grandkids with the bill, plus interest... and then opposed the $87 which would have actually been paid for with real funds, not an IOU for your ids and grandkids and running up the debt.

So why do you support this...?

[BigMattTheHobo]

Sigh......

It is a fucking joke, a spoof, a poor attempt at some sort of satire of the sigs of you guys.

I am a liberal!

I would die before voting for bush!

[Bubba-E]

ah, also hobo

i dont give a damn about reps

becides, for every neg i get, i get at least 4 possitives


proof (http://forum.ebaumsworld.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=20668&stc=1)

[Lestatdelc]

the guy said he thought bush mishandled iraq

Yep. And he has, not how and why we went in.

then just like normal democrats...

Yawn.

Nothing but empty bloviate and rude name calling, totally devoid of any substantive points of discussion. And not a single substantive point on why anyone should support Bush, who has demonstrated he administration is wholly incompetent.

[BigMattTheHobo]

ah, also hobo

i dont give a damn about reps

becides, for every neg i get, i get at least 4 possitives


proof (http://forum.ebaumsworld.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=20668&stc=1)


Do you accept my challenge?

What do you want if I lose?

And I don't care about reps either, which is why I am willing to rep you to leave.

[Bubba-E]

Sigh......

It is a fucking joke, a spoof, a poor attempt at some sort of satire of the sigs of you guys.

I am a liberal!

I would die before voting for bush!

the die already, take those pills the kid in your avatar is taking a swallow them all, dammit

like i said before, kerry and his nonsense brainwashed you queers

why bother anyway? you people will never change my mind, just as i will never change mine

maybe i will stay out of curret events, its all political shit, full of one tracked minded political queers, an exeption of a very few

still no reason for hating me?

or is just because i have a differnt political view, and my "grammar" sux

well i got news for ya, i dont give a shit about grammar

i can write normaly just like you, with caps, comas, etc etc

but i dont for one simple reasons: you dont have

for something like a school paper of course i would, but years of being on AIM and online games kinda got my typing into this style, so deal with it

[Bajee]

Because republicans generally disagree with a lot of things kerry stands for
Thats a good one. You made it as simple as possible. Kudos to you.


EDIT: Bubba ive already told you. I dont hate you because of your politcal view. I hate you because you think everything is about your political view and you refuse to look past that.

[BigMattTheHobo]

Once again you avoid any direct challenge and resort to your basic posting of insults. I think with that last post you have shown you do not belong in Current Events.

Now either leave on your own, or accept or deny my challenge.

Half of your post doesn't even make sense, and this is my rebuttal (you really should look that word up) to the portion of your post that is comprehendible.

If you knew anything about my past posts, you would know I am far from a "one tracked minded political queers" ( :confused: ), If you present a good argument and prove me wrong, I will admit I am wrong, and possibly change my philosophy on the topic.

Example: My recent conversations with Shade over AIM have caused me to start leaning (economically, only) towards conservative ways of thinking.

Because:
A) He is educated.
B) He makes it known he is educated, i.e. he speaks intelligently and persuasively.
C) He actually makes sense.
D) He is right over, lets say, 90% of the time when it comes to economics.

I am not "one tracked minded" in anyway.

[Viceroy]

LOL, "Commander and Chief". That's a classic.

[bubbles]

C'mon, Bubba-E! You could take Hobo with one lobe tied behind your back! You gots skills! All he's got are facts and intelligence; you have your name-calling. How could you lose?

*snicker*

[vchampionl70]

I´ve just one question: has America become a safer place during Bush´s time at the office, both forreign and domestic? I don´t think you´ve had a president that has caused so much animosity around the world, adn divided the country so much as he has...

Yes it has :D No terror attack in three years, which is quite good considering the history under the, ahem, previous administration when there was an attack every two years or so. Crime is down 25% since the beginning of his administration. ;)

As for foreign attacks, to use your own ideas, the United States is not the police of the world. :D Frankly, whether there is more crime or less in other parts of the world is irrelevant when the fact is there is less here.

[vchampionl70]

Total horse-shit.

Kerry will NOT cut military funding, and the most effective antiterrorism spending and efforts are not military, but intelligence and cooperative law enforcement and investigation with other countries which require diplomatic skill and nuance, something Bush has demonstratively shown himself 100% incapable of.

All of the above needed approaches will be increased under Kerry.

So you are voting for Bush under the 100% false impression you have of reality?

What of the two times he tried to cut intelligence spending following the WTC attacks in 1993? What about not voting for the $87 billion dollars?? There are more instances in which he deprived or tried to deprive our military of necessary funds.

[Lestatdelc]

good god man, get a fucken life and educate YOURSELF
Wow.. a typo marm...

How do you reconcile your pedantic bloviating above with your later statement below?

still no reason for hating me?

or is just because i have a differnt political view, and my "grammar" sux

well i got news for ya, i dont give a shit about grammar

i can write normaly just like you, with caps, comas, etc etc

[Bubba-E]

Once again you avoid any direct challenge and resort to your basic posting of insults. I think with that last post you have shown you do not belong in Current Events.

Now either leave on your own, or accept or deny my challenge.

Half of your post doesn't even make sense, and this is my rebuttal (you really should look that word up) to the portion of your post that is comprehendible.

If you knew anything about my past posts, you would know I am far from a "one tracked minded political queers" ( :confused: ), If you present a good argument and prove me wrong, I will admit I am wrong, and possibly change my philosophy on the topic.

Example: My recent conversations with Shade over AIM have caused me to start leaning (economically, only) towards conservative ways of thinking.

Because:
A) He is educated.
B) He makes it known he is educated, i.e. he speaks intelligently and persuasively.
C) He actually makes sense.
D) He is right over, lets say, 90% of the time when it comes to economics.

I am not "one tracked minded" in anyway.

first, bajee, i only talk about my politics when politics come up

and hobo, there is one simple reasons why i apear to be so "uneducated"

i am HORRIBLE at explaining things, have been all my life

this goes to the topic of the human brain, everyone is differnt, right?
people explain things differntly, people understand things differntly, and just so happens, some people can understand what i mean, some people just dont

alright, i was jumping for an insult when i called you one track minded, i admit that

the reason why i am avoiding your chalange is because i know i will lose, my memory is not great, nor is my debating skills, so basicly i know for a fact i will lose

i have my beleifs you have yours, its amazingly difficult to change some people's beleifs sometimes

its even more so for me because im not good at debating or explaining things, nor remembering things

anyone, back to the topic

the name of the thread... why support bush..

why support kerry? whats so special about him? so far everyone here has successfuly bashed bush over and over, yet no one has said nearly anything that prooves kerry isnt any better

my reasons for liking bush:

-overall he is just more likable, he took action extremly fast after 9/11

we elimitated terrorist in afganistan

we liberated a country from a tyrant who was killing people by the thousands

bush is pro-life like me

bush (supossibly) is a christain like me (thus simular beleifs)

he has lowered taxes and no not for only the rich, but for everyone

also bush has stimulated the economy, the economy is growing as fastest it has since WW2

bush actualy explains his plans in his speaches

my reasons for liking kerry:

hes very enthusiastic about things, such as "the next vice president of the united states will be..." but thats about it

reasons for disliking bush:

he jumped on iraq to soon, he should have been more careful with his inteligence

(i think) he said he would not go to war while being president, or sumthin like that, but he did anyone (but i believe any pres would after what happened on 9/11)

bush makes errors in speaches more than almost any other pres i have ever seen

he has a criminal record, but nothing major

he was an alcoholic at one time, but decided to quit and he did in one time, he just stoped (thus showing he has willpower)

reasons for disliking kerry:

he NEVER explains his plans in his speaches

he was devorced

he hardly ever makes up his mind

he has to have a 250 page book to talk about his plan for america, which i am still trying to get my hands on

he supossibly lyed about his first purple heart in nam

he first wants to raise taxes, now he claims he wont

the people who served with kerry, on his boat, said that kerry lyed about tons of things in nam


so there you go, my views on both kerry and bush

happy now? no, i seriously doubt it, you are probibly going to make some fancy come back and insult me again

and yes, i know i didnt list all the facts there are, like i said i dont have a perfect memory

if you want more anti-kerry stuff go to the links in my sig, plenty of stuff there

like i said, neither are perfect, but bush comes out top, but not by a lot

EDIT -
C'mon, Bubba-E! You could take Hobo with one lobe tied behind your back! You gots skills! All he's got are facts and intelligence; you have your name-calling. How could you lose?

*snicker*

lol? hypocrite

in your post, there is no facts, but insults, yet you are telling me all i do is give insults and no facts

perfect example of being a hypocrite

and no, all sides have facts and name calling

i dont deny it

[Lestatdelc]

exactly (referring to will123ab's inccorect assertion that if Kerry is elected there will be a 9/11 every day because he will cut military funding.)

Why are you agreeing with a false assertion...?

neither bush nor kerry are great, but i like bush better

Why?

kerry is just to vague about all these "plans"

More precise than the failed and failing "plans" of the Bush administration, which are demonstratively not working. So why do you support Bush?

every speach and interview i have seen about kerry he NEVER talks about details

First of all, I doubt you have watched many of Kerry's speeches, but giving you the benefit of the doubt, discussing details of specific plans and proposals on the stump would (unfortunately) put most audiences asleep, and when a Democrat DOES talk specifics of plans (which of necessity are large and complex), the media and the GOP label them "boring" and wonkish, something leveled at them (remember Gore?) and again at Kerry as well.

all he says is that he has a plan and hope is coming

Untrue.

well hope has already come, 4 years ago in the form of a man with initials GWB

some of it doesnt even matter

Such as?

and the rest are lies

Such as?

like i said, bush isnt perfect, but hes better than kerry

kerry as only shown his dark side

How?


and never even talks about how he is going to help this country


Fiction. He talks at length about it in his stump speech and talked about it in his DNC acceptance speech, and lays out his agenda (plans) in full on his website:

hes more interested in dancing on a stage infront of 10,000 brainwashed people with his fugly wife

That you denigrate the appearance of his wife is beneath contempt. And his "fugly" wife is not ulgy (she is actually quite attractive), and certainly was not ugly in the eyes of her former husband, the REPUBLICAN Senator from PA. That you stoop to such disgusting cheap shots exposes the utter bankruptcy in substantive merits of your views and civility.

In a thread about why someone would or should support Bush and you have nothing but hurling invective at the physical appearance of John Kerry's wife.

Disgusting.

[vchampionl70]

[QUOTE=Lestatdelc]Why are you agreeing with a false assertion...?[QUOTE]

It's not a false assertion. Please review his voting record.

[Lestatdelc]

Kerry has changed his point too much.

Nope.

One day he says he's against the war, the next day he's for the war.

Not true. You are grossly simplifying his votes on the issue.

He's against a funding bill, he's for a funding bill.

Do you understand how the legislative process works?

There are numerous versions of a multitude of different proposed funding bills on numerous areas. Voting for one bill and voting against another similar bill is part of the legislative process to arrive at what you can with what is the best compromise bill you can get. Taking separate votes on numerous competing versions of numerious proposed bills and ammendments to bills out of that context is wholly dishonest. But makes for sound bite negative campaigning which is all you seem to respond to.

That tells me he doesn't have a plan that goes beyond getting elected.

You really need to educate yourself on the relaitis of the democratic legislative process, and educate yourself on what his plans (for variosu issues) are.

So, the man is doing nothing but double talk according to what town he is in.

No, you expect the world to be reducable to 30 second simple black and white sound-bites. Relaity and the legislativ eporcess simply do not work that way.

Now, I realize Bush is not the brightest candle in the box, but he seem's to have a predictable nature.

So becaus ehe screws up predicatbly and feed syou mornic 3rd grade level sound bites, you support him?

Amazing.

And when you have some one with a predictable nature, you can do business with them. Call me crazy, but Democrats bitching that they can't get a bill passes under this guy just goes to show they are not crafty enough.

No, it simply shows that they don't have majorities in the Senate or the House.

Lestedelc, learn to use the edit button and quit double posting. Your new so we are cutting you some slack here.

I have not double posted (repeated a post of mine). Please point to a post of mine that is a double post.

[Bubba-E]

Why are you agreeing with a false assertion...?

It's not a false assertion. Please review his voting record.

exactly, lol

ok lestatdelc, i have absolutly no respect for you

i do for hobo, he actualy gives out some good hard facts, blah blah, he isnt perfect but hes better than you, at least at debating

lestatdelc, you fit into the biased catagory of "anyone but bush" it seems like

hobo doesnt, i admit i was wrong with calling him one track minded, he isnt

lestatdelc, you are

and yes i know kerry's wife married a republican, but then turned democrat, she had no money untill she married the republican

and by no money, i mean she wasnt as rich

and if you think she is attractive, you need your eyes checked

and no, laura bush is not attractive in my opinion either, but she's better than mrs kerry

EDIT - also, all your doing is saying "nope" "not true" "lies"

proof please?

[Lestatdelc]

Well why should you vote yes on a bill again that has been changed?

Maybe some stuff that you don't like has been added. Should you vote yes again just so it seems you have "leadership" and won't change yor mind?

Thank you for acknowledging the reality of the legislative process.

It simply does not lend itself to accurate "sound bites", but that unfortunately is the level to which political discussion and campaigning has devolved into nowadays.

[Dasani]

Why?

You have not explained why.

Why ask why?

You seem to do this in all yours posts. Please provide a reason that you ask why then I might provide a reason on my views. saying Why? is alot easier

[pat99872]

first, bajee, i only talk about my politics when politics come up

and hobo, there is one simple reasons why i apear to be so "uneducated"

i am HORRIBLE at explaining things, have been all my life

this goes to the topic of the human brain, everyone is differnt, right?
people explain things differntly, people understand things differntly, and just so happens, some people can understand what i mean, some people just dont

alright, i was jumping for an insult when i called you one track minded, i admit that

the reason why i am avoiding your chalange is because i know i will lose, my memory is not great, nor is my debating skills, so basicly i know for a fact i will lose

i have my beleifs you have yours, its amazingly difficult to change some people's beleifs sometimes

its even more so for me because im not good at debating or explaining things, nor remembering things

anyone, back to the topic

the name of the thread... why support bush..

why support kerry? whats so special about him? so far everyone here has successfuly bashed bush over and over, yet no one has said nearly anything that prooves kerry isnt any better

my reasons for liking bush:

-overall he is just more likable, he took action extremly fast after 9/11

we elimitated terrorist in afganistan

we liberated a country from a tyrant who was killing people by the thousands

bush is pro-life like me

bush (supossibly) is a christain like me (thus simular beleifs)

he has lowered taxes and no not for only the rich, but for everyone

also bush has stimulated the economy, the economy is growing as fastest it has since WW2

bush actualy explains his plans in his speaches

my reasons for liking kerry:

hes very enthusiastic about things, such as "the next vice president of the united states will be..." but thats about it

reasons for disliking bush:

he jumped on iraq to soon, he should have been more careful with his inteligence

(i think) he said he would not go to war while being president, or sumthin like that, but he did anyone (but i believe any pres would after what happened on 9/11)

bush makes errors in speaches more than almost any other pres i have ever seen

he has a criminal record, but nothing major

he was an alcoholic at one time, but decided to quit and he did in one time, he just stoped (thus showing he has willpower)

reasons for disliking kerry:

he NEVER explains his plans in his speaches

he was devorced

he hardly ever makes up his mind

he has to have a 250 page book to talk about his plan for america, which i am still trying to get my hands on

he supossibly lyed about his first purple heart in nam

he first wants to raise taxes, now he claims he wont

the people who served with kerry, on his boat, said that kerry lyed about tons of things in nam


so there you go, my views on both kerry and bush

happy now? no, i seriously doubt it, you are probibly going to make some fancy come back and insult me again

and yes, i know i didnt list all the facts there are, like i said i dont have a perfect memory

if you want more anti-kerry stuff go to the links in my sig, plenty of stuff there

like i said, neither are perfect, but bush comes out top, but not by a lot

EDIT -


lol? hypocrite

in your post, there is no facts, but insults, yet you are telling me all i do is give insults and no facts

perfect example of being a hypocrite

and no, all sides have facts and name calling

i dont deny it


i think you're a pretty decent person outside of politics

[Lestatdelc]

No terror attack in three years

Might want to tell that to the dead people who were attacked with anthrax, or the RISE in the number of terrorist attacks overseas since 9/11.

which is quite good considering the history under the, ahem, previous administration when there was an attack every two years or so.

There are more attacks on a monthly basis now than ever under any previous administration.

Crime is down 25% since the beginning of his administration

Source for this claim?

As for foreign attacks, to use your own ideas, the United States is not the police of the world.

Then why are we invading other countries and acting like one under this administration?

Frankly, whether there is more crime or less in other parts of the world is irrelevant when the fact is there is less here.

Wrong. What happens in other countries eventually DOES impact us here. Or has 9/11 taught you nothing...?

Given the entire premise of your "support" of Bush is demonstratively untrue, why do you support Bush...?

[Lestatdelc]

What of the two times he tried to cut intelligence spending following the WTC attacks in 1993?

it’s accurate to say that Kerry "voted against billions" for intelligence spending, and did so a year after the 1993 World Trade Center bombing. But that was a time that even many Republicans were coming to the conclusion* that intelligence spending could safely be scaled back because the Cold War was over.

What Kerry voted for in*1994 was an*amendment that he himself had proposed, which*included a cut in*intelligence funding of $1 billion in 1994, and to cap spending at that level through 1998.*That would amount to a $5-billion cut over five years,*somewhere between 3% and*4% of estimated US intelligence spending at the time.

The Kerry amendment* was a comprehensive deficit-reduction package that also targeted a variety of other cuts, including reductions in programs for*agriculture, commerce and administration. Kerry's amendment went down to defeat with only 20 votes in favor.

However, the 1993 World Trade Center*bombing*is not the only context in which Kerry’s vote*can or should*be placed. When the Berlin Wall fell five years earlier in 1989, the event marked the end of the Cold War. Over the next half dozen years the diminished threat from the former Soviet Union (which dissolved in 1991)*led to a national debate over the level of*intelligence spending, which had ballooned to an estimated $30 billion per year.

Four years prior to Kerry's amendment, for*example, in July of 1990*the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence released a report calling for new*fiscal scrutiny of intelligence*and saying “it is clear that the underlying rationale for many of these programs is in serious need of review.” The intelligence committee found massive duplication and waste in the Pentagon's intelligence programs particularly, noting separate intelligence arms with their own "separate buildings, separate security, separate communications, separate support services" at every echelon, *including the*Office of the Secretary of Defense, Army, Navy, Air Force and even regional commanders around the globe.

And the same year*Kerry voted to cut intelligence funds, 1994,* a bipartisan commission was formed to assess the state of US intelligence efforts. It concluded two years later*that cuts in intelligence spending were inevitable and might be made without endangering national security. In 1996 the*17-member Commission on the Roles and Capabilities of the United States Intelligence Community (also called*the Aspin Commission) found that, despite cuts already made to that time, intelligence spending was still 80% higher than it had been in 1980 even including adjustments for inflation. By comparison,*other defense spending had decreased 4%.**To be sure,*the commission didn’t recommend any more cuts in intelligence spending, but*it acknowledged that balancing the federal budget would probably require that cuts be made:

Aspin Commission: Reductions to the existing and planned intelligence resources may be possible without damaging the nation's security. Indeed, finding such reductions is critical . . . (I)t is clear a more rigorous analysis of the resources budgeted for intelligence is required.

Among the Republican commissioners who unanimously approved that language were Paul Wolfowitz, who is currently Bush's Deputy Secretary of Defense, and Sen. John Warner, now chairman of the Armed Services Committee.

Also worth noting is that after*Kerry's proposal to cut intelligence spending by $1 billion a year failed, a Republican-sponsored*cut sailed through easily. In 1995 Republican Senator Arlen Specter proposed to cut $1 billion*from the super-secret National Reconnaissance Office (NRO) for fiscal year 1996. That cut was considered so uncontroversial that it passed by a voice vote.

http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=209

What about not voting for the $87 billion dollars??

He voted for a version of the bill (same amount) but was fully funded and not charged to our kids and grandkids by running up the deficit.

Kerry believes in supporting our troops but also in fiscal responsibility.

There are more instances in which he deprived or tried to deprive our military of necessary funds.

Ficiton.

[Asbestos Crayon]

Hobo,

God, do really don't know how retarded you just sounded challenging some one to a debate over the internet like a turf war. You can call me what you want, but a smart person open minded person can interpret and over come.

Lester,

Come back with more than stupid comments and yawns. Life is what a person makes it, not what you tell them it is.

Big,

Don't worry about spelling and grammer. I have a PhD and I can't spell for shit and my grammer sucks. Half the people I work with are way smarter than any of these possers and they have the same problem. We have a saying here, you get your PhD to do what you want to in science. As long as you are good in your field, you can always higher some one from McDonalds with a BS in English Lit to correct your grammer and spelling. Hell, it's not like the people reading your article gives a shit. They look at the numbers and formulas.

And by the way, Liberman would make a way better President than Bush or Kerry. I would have voted for Liberman.

[Bubba-E]

i think you're a pretty decent person outside of politics

FINALY!!!

good fucken lord finaly someone understands, lol

i never thought i would said this, but thank you pat

:)

[Lestatdelc]

-overall he is just more likable

And that is a valid criterion for who should be president, who appears more "buddy buddy" like...?

he took action extremly fast after 9/11

How?

It took over 2 months to go after al-Qaeda and we know within hours it was al-Qaeda who hit us. The plan used to go into Afghanistan was a scaled back version of what the outgoing Clinton administration drew up to take out the Taliban and al-Qaeda as a response to the Cole bombing but had to leave office before carrying it out because of the results of the election (selection).

So I am not sure what you think Bush did correctly and quickly after 9/11. So this makes no sense.

we elimitated terrorist in afganistan

No we didn't. They were moved out into SW Pakistan, and are no reentering the country. In fact the same warlords and the Taliban are reemerging in Afghanistan. In fact just this past week Doctors Without Borders pulled out of Afghanistan because of a lack of security and they had been operating and were safer when Afghanistan was under Taliban control.

So we have NOT succeeded in our goals there. So this makes no sense.

we liberated a country from a tyrant who was killing people by the thousands

By killing people by the thousands and were are in a quagmire there?

Iraq is less stable, and more of a threat now (because of its instability) than under the Ba'athist regime. And those "thousands of killings by a tyrant"... most took place when "we" (Reagan and Bush Sr.) were allies with him. Furthermore, if Saddam was such an evil guy, why was Halliburton under the direction of Dick Cheney using off=shore companies to circumvent sanctions and do business with Iraq, Iran and Libya...?

So this makes no sense.

bush is pro-life like me

So killing thousand of people, and executing people (Texas) is "pro-life"...?

Or are you mislabeling yourself and Bush when you really mean you are anti woman's rights over her own body and anti-abortion...?

bush (supposedly) is a christain like me (thus simular beleifs)

How is preemptively starting wars a Christian value?

That said, Kerry is a Christian. In fact every president save Lincoln and jefferson have been christian, and every candidate for that office has been Christian in the modern era. So this makes no sense.

he has lowered taxes and no not for only the rich, but for everyone

Actually the effective taxes paid at the state, local and federal level has gone up for most people or major cuts in needed programs because of the cost shifts to the states in the Federal funding cuts. Tax cuts are not always a good thing, and in this case are disaster. So this makes no sense.

also bush has stimulated the economy, the economy is growing as fastest it has since WW2

But this is outright fiction. So this makes no sense.

bush actualy explains his plans in his speaches

No he doesn't. So this makes no sense.

he NEVER explains his plans in his speaches

This is not true, so this makes no sense.

he was devorced

So was Reagan, did you dislike him as well...?

he hardly ever makes up his mind

This is not true, so this makes no sense.

he has to have a 250 page book to talk about his plan for america, which i am still trying to get my hands on

You previously claimed he never explains his plans. So this negates that previous charge.

he supossibly lyed about his first purple heart in nam

This is an outright lie. So this makes no sense.

he first wants to raise taxes, now he claims he wont

Fiction.

He has always stated he will move the upper brackets back to what they were under Clinton (when we had the largest and longest economic expansion in history) but not raise taxes on middle and low income brackets.

So your assertion is wrong and thus makes no sense.

the people who served with kerry, on his boat, said that kerry lyed about tons of things in nam

100% fiction. The people smearing Kerry's record did not serve on his crew at all. There is only one member of either of his crews who does not endorse his candidacy and back his story, and the person is confirmed far-right Rush Limbaugh conservative. So your belief is mistaken and thus makes nonsense.

[Lestatdelc]

It's not a false assertion. Please review his voting record.

I have reviewed his voting record and it is a false assertion. The only time Kerry ever voted to reduce military spending was in 1991, after the collapse of the soviet union, when Dick Cheney (as Sec. of Defense) requested massive scaling back of the military. Kerry actually voted for bills that were LESS than what the Bush Sr, administration and the Congressional GOP wanted aa the time.

Dick Cheney, who was then Secretary of Defense,*proposed to cut or eliminate several of the very same weapons that Republicans now falsley accuse Kerry for opposing. In his first appearance before Congress as Defense Secretary in April 1989, for example, Cheney outlined $10 billion in defense cuts including proposed cancellation of the AH-64 Apache helicopter, and elimination of the F-15E ground-attack jet. Two years later Cheney's Pentagon budget also proposed elimination of further production of the Bradley Fighting Vehicle and targeted a total of 81 Pentagon programs for termination, including the F-14 and F-16 aircraft. And the elder President Bush said in his 1992*State of the Union*address: "After completing 20 planes for which we have begun procurement, we will shut down further production of the B - 2 bombers. . . . And we will not purchase any more advanced cruise missiles." So if Kerry opposed weapons "our troops depend on," so did Cheney and the elder President Bush.

So you are in fact supporting and pushing a false assertion.

[Lestatdelc]

Please provide a reason that you ask why then I might provide a reason on my views.

Because I would like to know why people back Bush and this is the specific topic of this thread which I started. SO far I have not seen many answers that are base don substantive reason predicate don his actual record or "accomplishments" and I see numerous false assertions about how "Kerry is bad" or would be worse.

I am trying to find out if there are any valid reasons why people still support this president.

[Charon]

100% fiction. The people smearing Kerry's record did not serve on his crew at all. There is only one member of either of his crews who does not endorse his candidacy and back his story, and the person is confirmed far-right Rush Limbaugh conservative. So your belief is mistaken and thus makes nonsense.

Jim Rassman was very happy that Kerry returned to pick him out of the water. And Kerry's citation for the Bronze Star remains as official record.

“The man was receiving sniper fire from both banks. Lt. Kerry directed his gunners to provide suppressing fire, while from an exposed position on the bow, his arm bleeding and in pain, with disregard for his personal safety, he pulled the man aboard.

Lt. Kerry then directed his boat to return and assist the other damaged craft and towed the boat to safety. Lt. Kerry's calmness, professionalism and great personal courage under fire were in keeping with the highest traditions of the US Naval Service.”

By the way, have they found GW Bush's service records yet, to disprove those AWOL allegations?

[Lestatdelc]

Come back with more than stupid comments and yawns.

I have, numerous times. But your infantile outburst I was directing that too deserves a yawn and a scroll.

You have already demonstrated that you can do far better than such behavior. You can engage in civil discourse (as evidenced by other parts of posts in this thread) and don't need to engage in the silly hyperbolic ad hominiem grade school level of name calling.

Many people now days engage in pathetic blanket slurs against people for the political equivalent of flinging feces at people the dislike or don't agree with.

You and I need not engage in the level of discourse (and in fact I refuse to do so). We can both behave better that that sort of dialog don't you think?

[bubbles]

Why ask why?

You seem to do this in all yours posts. Please provide a reason that you ask why then I might provide a reason on my views. saying Why? is alot easier

Perhaps you didn't notice the title of this thread. If you don't like the question, then why post on this thread?
Why won't you offer sound reasons for supporting Bush?
Why don't you read the refutations offered by the astute Lestatdelc?

[Bubba-E]

And that is a valid criterion for who should be president, who appears more "buddy buddy" like...?



How?

It took over 2 months to go after al-Qaeda and we know within hours it was al-Qaeda who hit us. The plan used to go into Afghanistan was a scaled back version of what the outgoing Clinton administration drew up to take out the Taliban and al-Qaeda as a response to the Cole bombing but had to leave office before carrying it out because of the results of the election (selection).

So I am not sure what you think Bush did correctly and quickly after 9/11. So this makes no sense.



No we didn't. They were moved out into SW Pakistan, and are no reentering the country. In fact the same warlords and the Taliban are reemerging in Afghanistan. In fact just this past week Doctors Without Borders pulled out of Afghanistan because of a lack of security and they had been operating and were safer when Afghanistan was under Taliban control.

So we have NOT succeeded in our goals there. So this makes no sense.



By killing people by the thousands and were are in a quagmire there?

Iraq is less stable, and more of a threat now (because of its instability) than under the Ba'athist regime. And those "thousands of killings by a tyrant"... most took place when "we" (Reagan and Bush Sr.) were allies with him. Furthermore, if Saddam was such an evil guy, why was Halliburton under the direction of Dick Cheney using off=shore companies to circumvent sanctions and do business with Iraq, Iran and Libya...?

So this makes no sense.



So killing thousand of people, and executing people (Texas) is "pro-life"...?

Or are you mislabeling yourself and Bush when you really mean you are anti woman's rights over her own body and anti-abortion...?



How is preemptively starting wars a Christian value?

That said, Kerry is a Christian. In fact every president save Lincoln and jefferson have been christian, and every candidate for that office has been Christian in the modern era. So this makes no sense.



Actually the effective taxes paid at the state, local and federal level has gone up for most people or major cuts in needed programs because of the cost shifts to the states in the Federal funding cuts. Tax cuts are not always a good thing, and in this case are disaster. So this makes no sense.



But this is outright fiction. So this makes no sense.



No he doesn't. So this makes no sense.



This is not true, so this makes no sense.



So was Reagan, did you dislike him as well...?



This is not true, so this makes no sense.



You previously claimed he never explains his plans. So this negates that previous charge.



This is an outright lie. So this makes no sense.



Fiction.

He has always stated he will move the upper brackets back to what they were under Clinton (when we had the largest and longest economic expansion in history) but not raise taxes on middle and low income brackets.

So your assertion is wrong and thus makes no sense.



100% fiction. The people smearing Kerry's record did not serve on his crew at all. There is only one member of either of his crews who does not endorse his candidacy and back his story, and the person is confirmed far-right Rush Limbaugh conservative. So your belief is mistaken and thus makes nonsense.

i almost feel off my chair laughing at this, basicly your saying everything that i say is a lie and everything you say is the truth

this is what you call the "i-am-always-right-your-always-wrong-game"

also i have seen "this makes no sense" quite a lot in your post

does anything make sense to you?

ah yes, only people who agree with you 100% make sense to you, you have no sense what so ever of new ideas

if you lived 500 yrs ago you would probibly be so stuborn you would think the earth is flat and a bright 2D surface moved around it

one more thing, about these women rights

i heard on the news one women saying bush was messing with there bodies

i just had to laugh at that womens stupidity

bush saying you should put drugs into your body to kill a living creature is messing with someones body? OTHER WAY AROUND

the women are the ones messing with there bodies

if you knowingly have sex, unprotected, or even protected but the condom breaks, and you get pregnant i think you should just deal with your mistake, the deserve to be punished for there stupidity, something like rape i think you should be able to have an abortion

lestatdelc, just give up, your the one not making any sense

also, you got no proof to back up anything you say, ever last word could be a lie (no im not saying they are)

[Dasani]

Because I would like to know why people back Bush and this is the specific topic of this thread which I started. SO far I have not seen many answers that are base don substantive reason predicate don his actual record or "accomplishments" and I see numerous false assertions about how "Kerry is bad" or would be worse.

I am trying to find out if there are any valid reasons why people still support this president.

Well I dont agree with many things that Kerry says also I see him as more of a Flip Flop and no plan for American than Bush (remember people have different opinions). I agree with Bush's views on abortions and gay marriages and I guess a little about the war in iraq. If after the terrism attack we would have just sat back in our land and not gone off to fight I would have in disagreement all I can say is at least he did something.

I can say this though I dont get to much into politics cause I think its all just a big mess, I am tired of hearing people bring down Kerry and people bring down Bush. I am sure my life will be pretty much the same with Bush or Kerry as President.

[Bubba-E]

also, who ever gave me a rep with no comment (most likly one of these people with under 100 posts who i am debating with) get a life

it shows how stupid you are, noob reps dont effect my rep overall, its what you call a gray rep

kane, if you see this post, i request an IP search on these people im debating with, no not because i hate them, because i am curious why these newbie members apear all of a sudden..

[Dasani]

also, who ever gave me a rep with no comment (most likly one of these people with under 100 posts who i am debating with) get a life

it shows how stupid you are, noob reps dont effect my rep overall, its what you call a gray rep

kane, if you see this post, i request an IP search on these people im debating with, no not because i hate them, because i am curious why these newbie members apear all of a sudden..

I also got a rep with no comment, no name, and it didnt count...and I think I know who it was.

[Charon]

About 6 times a day, every day of the year, commercial aircraft from Chinese controlled airports are flying holding patterns over virtually every major population region of USA. The US has no way of determining whether any of these aircraft (or indeed possibly all) have a nuclear weapon stowed onboard until they have have actually landed.

The safety of USA is totally reliant on the co-operation of foreign sovereign governments to ensure that a nuclear device has not been loaded onboard a commercial aircraft prior to departure. Yet GW Bush has been able to infuriate most sovereign governments that control cargo security destined for USA. A number of these aircraft are onroute from nations who are openly hostile to GW Bush's "holy war against Islam", including Burma and Indonesia.

How much would Kim Song Il or Osama Bin Laden have to pay moslem cargo handlers in Jakarta to load a "special package" for San Francisco? A lot less then the $25Mn reward the US offered for Saddam or Bin Laden.

Bush has been successful in uniting almost every nation and idealological group in open hostility against the USA. At least Kerry understands the need to be pragmatic in foreign relations and diplomacy.

[bubbles]

Bush has been successful in uniting almost every nation and idealological group in open hostility against the USA.

Exactly!
And in doing so, he has left us in greater jeopardy than ever before.

[Wild_Child]

By the way, have they found GW Bush's service records yet, to disprove those AWOL allegations?

wow, are you okay...The bush administration presented his military records to the press like 9 months ago...were have you been...just type it in a search engine and look for it...its not that difficult. I'm kinda scared... when someone usually debates about issues you can a least count on some subject knowledge... but for this thread im seeing alot of unsupported facts on either side...what ever happend to KrazyKomrades suggestion for using a debate rubric...this 98% opinons...i think im gonna join globalteen.com

[Lestatdelc]

i almost feel off my chair laughing at this, basicly your saying everything that i say is a lie and everything you say is the truth

Not entirely a fair reading of it, but on these points (i.e. the assertions upon which you ar emaking the claims) are wrong. As they ar enot based on the facts and the reality of the underlying issues.

also i have seen "this makes no sense" quite a lot in your post

does anything make sense to you?

Yes, lot so things do.. things that are base don facts, truth and reality make sense to me.

However people who base their views and positions on things that are not true, are predicate don falsehoods, misinterpretations of facts out of context propaganda and use them to make the vote on such falsehoods do not make sense to me.

ah yes, only people who agree with you 100% make sense to you, you have no sense what so ever of new ideas

Not at all the case (yet again). I am always open to new ideas, but present the facts, and the truth and the logic of the idea base don those things and I am all ears and will most likely embrace a new idea if it is a better one base don those critria.

if you lived 500 yrs ago you would probibly be so stuborn you would think the earth is flat and a bright 2D surface moved around it

Not at all. Present the facts, the evidence and the logical argument and I am more than willing to accept a new idea.

But I find it interesting you can;t refute a single thing I have posted in rebuttal to your false assertions.

one more thing, about these women rights

i heard on the news one women saying bush was messing with there bodies

Ok. Do you not understand that she is referring to laws governing the reproductive rights to make decisions about whether or not to have an abortion?

i just had to laugh at that womens stupidity

Nothing stupid at all about what you claim she said, but if she said what you have purported, your misunderstanding of what she was no doubt referring to is hardly her "stupidity".

bush saying you should put drugs into your body to kill a living creature is messing with someones body? OTHER WAY AROUND

Yep. Because prior to the third trimester the only person even present in the issue is the woman.

the women are the ones messing with there bodies

Yep, as is their right, not your right to prevent them from exercising their rights over their own bodies.

if you knowingly have sex, unprotected, or even protected but the condom breaks, and you get pregnant i think you should just deal with your mistake,

That was getting an abortion is.

the deserve to be punished for there stupidity, something like rape i think you should be able to have an abortion

This is beyond stupid. Nobody deserves to be "punished" for an unwanted pregnancy (outside of rape). This is just stupid non-think. Though interesting that you think (given that you think a fetus is a person) that they should be killed because somone else got raped.

So If I rape your daughter, you can kill your wife...?

you got no proof to back up anything you say, ever last word could be a lie (no im not saying they are)

Wrong. Pick anything I have posted and I will back it up.

[Lestatdelc]

Well I dont agree with many things that Kerry says

Like?

also I see him as more of a Flip Flop

Point to a "flip-flop" by Kerry that is factual and not an out of cotnext smear.

And given the staggering number of real flip-flops, on the most serious of issues around, I fail to see how you can compare them. Here is just one of dozens...

Social Security Surplus
BUSH PLEDGES NOT TO TOUCH SOCIAL SECURITY SURPLUS... "We're going to keep the promise of Social Security and keep the government from raiding the Social Security surplus." [President Bush, 3/3/01]

...BUSH SPENDS SOCIAL SECURITY SURPLUS The New York Times reported that "the president's new budget uses Social Security surpluses to pay for other programs every year through 2013, ultimately diverting more than $1.4 trillion in Social Security funds to other purposes." [The New York Times, 2/6/02]


How about this one?

GOVERNOR BUSH VETOES PATIENTS' RIGHT TO SUE... "Despite his campaign rhetoric in favor of a patients' bill of rights, Bush fought such a bill tooth and nail as Texas governor, vetoing a bill coauthored by Republican state Rep. John Smithee in 1995. He... constantly opposed a patient's right to sue an HMO over coverage denied that resulted in adverse health effects." [Salon, 2/7/01]

...CANDIDATE BUSH PRAISES TEXAS PATIENTS' RIGHT TO SUE... "We're one of the first states that said you can sue an HMO for denying you proper coverage... It's time for our nation to come together and do what's right for the people. And I think this is right for the people. You know, I support a national patients' bill of rights, Mr. Vice President. And I want all people covered. I don't want the law to supersede good law like we've got in Texas." [Governor Bush, 10/17/00]

...PRESIDENT BUSH'S ADMINISTRATION ARGUES AGAINST RIGHT TO SUE "To let two Texas consumers, Juan Davila and Ruby R. Calad, sue their managed-care companies for wrongful denials of medical benefits ‘would be to completely undermine' federal law regulating employee benefits, Assistant Solicitor General James A. Feldman said at oral argument March 23. Moreover, the administration's brief attacked the policy rationale for Texas's law, which is similar to statutes on the books in nine other states." [Washington Post, 4/5/04]

Or this one?

BUSH WILL NOT OFFER NUCLEAR NORTH KOREA INCENTIVES TO DISARM... "We developed a bold approach under which, if the North addressed our long-standing concerns, the United States was prepared to take important steps that would have significantly improved the lives of the North Korean people. Now that North Korea's covert nuclear weapons program has come to light, we are unable to pursue this approach." [President's Statement, 11/15/02]

...BUSH ADMINISTRATION OFFERS NORTH KOREA INCENTIVES TO DISARM"Well, we will work to take steps to ease their political and economic isolation. So there would be -- what you would see would be some provisional or temporary proposals that would only lead to lasting benefit after North Korea dismantles its nuclear programs. So there would be some provisional or temporary efforts of that nature." [White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan, 6/23/04]


Show me ANYTHING in Kerry's alledged "flip-flops" that holds water that rates with just those few examples of dozens more I could cite.

no plan for American

This is simple untrue. Kerry has a very robust and comprehensive plan.

I agree with Bush's views on abortions

Sad to hear that. So you think women do not have rights over their own bodies?

and gay marriages

Which one?

BUSH SAYS GAY MARRIAGE IS A STATE ISSUE... "The state
can do what they want to do. Don't try to trap me in
this state's issue like you're trying to get me into."
[Gov. George W. Bush on Gay Marriage, Larry King Live,
2/15/00]

...BUSH SUPPORTS CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT BANNING GAY
MARRIAGE "Today I call upon the Congress to promptly
pass, and to send to the states for ratification, an
amendment to our Constitution defining and protecting
marriage as a union of man and woman as husband and
wife." [President Bush, 2/24/04]

And do you support denying non-heterosexuals equal proteciton under the law?

Sounds very un-American to me, in fact in direct contradiction of our Constitution.

I guess a little about the war in iraq. If after the terrism attack we would have just sat back in our land and not gone off to fight I would have in disagreement all I can say is at least he did something.

Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 or any terrorist threat to us. This is like saying that if when Pearl Harbor occurred, FDR should have declared "war on sneak attacks" instead of on Japan and the Axis powers, then without warning, invaded Morocco in retaliation.

I can say this though I dont get to much into politics cause I think its all just a big mess, I am tired of hearing people bring down Kerry and people bring down Bush.

Fair enough, but it is your obligation as a citizen to inform yourself and stay informed. That is how our form of governemnt works, by having an infiormed and engaged citizenry. Not trying to flick you crap over this because i know it is very easy to tune oout, especially when it all seems like a hopeless mess... but the only way out of a hopeless mess is for you, me, and everyone else to inform ourselves debate, discuss, then vote and hold our elected representatives accountable. Apathy is the biggest problem we as a society and nation face.

I am sure my life will be pretty much the same with Bush or Kerry as President.

What makes you belive this...?

[Lestatdelc]

wow, are you okay...The bush administration presented his military records to the press like 9 months ago

Which did nothing to prove he served his time fully.

Some of President Bush's missing Air National Guard records during the Vietnam War years, previously said to be destroyed, turned up on Friday but offered no new evidence to dispel charges that he was absent without leave.

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=5761856

[Dasani]

What makes you belive this...?

Because its never changed when any other new President has taken office unless this might be different.

[Lestatdelc]

Because its never changed when any other new President has taken office unless this might be different.

It is different, and it has made a difference in the past as well.

Do you think that things would have been the same for black people (for instance) if Goldwater (who supported segregation) instead of Johnson (who opposed segregation) won in the 64 election?

Do you think we would be in Iraq, as we are now, if Gore (who would have pushed passing the Hart-Rudman recommendations (http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/ssi/hartrud.pdf Hart-Rudmen) prior to 9/11, and would have executed the plan developed in Dec. 2000 by the Clinton/Gore administration instead of shelving it until after 9/11) had won in 2000 (even though technically he did) instead of Bush...?

[Bubba-E]

This is simple untrue. Kerry has a very robust and comprehensive plan

then tell us, what is his plan?

you dont know!!!

thats exactly why i dont like kerry, he has no plan

basicly he is saying

"elect me and you can see my plan"

[bubbles]

then tell us, what is his plan?
you dont know!!!
thats exactly why i dont like kerry, he has no plan
basicly he is saying
"elect me and you can see my plan"
Sounds like Ahnuld's campaign in Cali. He had no platform, and no experience. But i digress...

Tell us; what are Bush's plans?

You don't know.

but there are sites that have this info for you:
http://www.johnkerry.com/index.html
http://www.issues2000.org/default.htm

[Ajax]

Example, you and a bunch of pals go out one night and paintball a bunch of houses and shit. The next day you wake up, go to the police station and tell on your pals and then go on TV and explain how paintballing is evil and the people who paintball are disgusting and should be arrested. Kerry did this, except him and his pals didnt play paintball, they played Vietnam.



Was Kerry drafted? If he was you are very wrong.

[Lestatdelc]

then tell us, what is his plan?

On which set of issues?

you dont know!!!


Wrong, you need to specify what issue(s) you want addresses as there are dozens upon dozens of major issues.

Here is a starter one... (but tell me if there is a different issue you would rather hear about):

ECONOMY - SMALL BUSINESS

A New Era Of Opportunity For Small Business

Small businesses are the engine of the American economy. They create 75 percent of all new jobs and represent 99 percent of all employers. They also employ 53 percent of the private workforce and provide almost 70 percent of workers with their first jobs. And small businesses have often helped lead the way to an economic recovery - during the 1989-1993 Recession, small companies created about 3.8 million new jobs.

Today, small businesses are struggling in a business environment weakened by economic stewardship that puts big business ahead of the small American entrepreneur. Loans are down and access to capital has decreased while health care and energy costs have increased - and are still climbing today.

As the former Chairman and current Ranking Member of the Senate Small Business and Entrepreneurship Committee, John Kerry has been a national leader in promoting small businesses growth. John Kerry owned his own small business, a cookie and muffin shop called Kilvert and Forbes that he opened in 1979 with a friend in Boston's Quincy Market, giving him first-hand experience with the obstacles faced by small business owners.

As president, John Kerry will bring to the White House both the lessons he learned from owning and working in a small business and his leadership in fighting to support small businesses in the Senate. Tapping into the ingenuity and inventiveness that drives American business, John Kerry and John Edwards will usher in a new era of opportunity for small business.

Put Government Back on the Side of Small Business

Create a "Small Business Opportunity Fund."
Investing in small business is good bang for the buck. An additional $170 million investment could help make billions in long-term capital and equity available for small businesses. The Kerry-Edwards plan will ensure that small businesses have all the federal support that they need to grow and thrive by:
Helping Micro-Enterprises. Micro-enterprises are operations with five or fewer employees and revenues under $500,000. The Kerry-Edwards plan will expand loans and equity for these smallest businesses.

Accessing Capital.
Venture capital funding has declined under the Bush administration, leaving many businesses without a source of equity financing. The Kerry-Edwards plan will bridge the gap between entrepreneurs' need for capital and traditional financing sources by increasing the federal government's venture capital investments.

Increasing Loans.
Financing that is affordable and easy to obtain is often difficult for small businesses to find. George Bush has consistently shortchanged funding for loan programs. One of his proposals would have translated into the loss of almost 200,000 American small business jobs. The Kerry-Edwards plan will expand loan programs to help more small businesses get off the ground.


A Fair Share In Federal Contracting For Small Businesses.
The federal government is the largest buyer of goods and services in the world. Too often, small businesses are denied access to the federal marketplace through practices such as contract "bundling," which turns small contracts into big contracts that are harder for small businesses to compete for. Such practices have undermined small business's competitiveness for federal contracts. President Bush pledged to end contract bundling, but has not. In October, the Office of Management and Budget issued a report that showed that the number and size of bundled contracts has reached a 10-year high. The Kerry-Edwards plan will provide small businesses with more opportunities for government contracting and work with federal agencies - including the Department of Defense, the Department of Homeland Security, and the Department of Health and Human Services - to reduce contract bundling.

Increase The Share of Federal Contracts For Small Businesses.
Under President Bush, the small business share of federal contracts has decreased by 14 percent despite the fact that total federal contracts have increased by 7 percent. As president, John Kerry will increase the number of federal contracts that go to small business by increasing the government-wide goal for small business's share of federal contracts to 30 percent.

Tax Simplification For Small Businesses.
America's small businesses are drowning in tax paperwork. The nation's employers are responsible for filing federal and state employment taxes and wage reports, as well as unemployment insurance reports. Just to keep up with these requirements, employers must maintain separate wage records for federal and state income tax withholding, FICA, FUTA, and SUI. In many cases, employers must report this information to government agencies at different times and in different forms. The burden is compounded when employers do business in more than one state, because many states have different legal or procedural requirements. The Kerry-Edwards plan will reduce this burden by simplifying tax filing for small businesses, including allowing the IRS and state agencies to combine - on one form - both State and Federal employment tax returns.

Tax Credits To Reduce Energy Costs.
America's small businesses account for more than half of all energy consumption in North America. The growth and development of small businesses depends on an affordable and reliable energy supply. Increasing energy prices have hurt small businesses that are already struggling in this economy. To help small business owners reduce their utility bills, the Kerry-Edwards plan will provide a credit to purchase equipment that meets energy-efficiency standards for heating and cooling in new buildings and to retrofit existing ones. It also provides a 20 percent tax credit for the purchase of energy-efficient building equipment, including electric heat pumps, hot water heaters, and natural gas heat pumps.

Strengthen America's Base Of Small Manufacturers.
During the last three years, 2.7 million - or one in every seven - manufacturing jobs have been lost nationwide. Both large and small companies have been hurt. To help strengthen America's small manufacturers, the Kerry-Edwards plan will increase loan and investment limits, develop a three-tier manufacturing skills training program for current workers, college, and high school students, increase funding for the Manufacturing Extension Partnership Program, and create an Office of Manufacturing at the Small Business Administration

A Big Voice For Small Business.
Over the past two years, the number of small businesses that have closed has been greater than the number founded - which is not surprising considering Bush's business agenda has largely benefited big corporations and cut programs that support small business. In a Kerry-Edwards administration, small business will have the support that it needs and deserves to grow and be strong. As president, John Kerry will give small business a cabinet level position, give small business a voice at the World Trade Organization to ensure that small businesses are considered in trade issues, and ensure that federal regulations are fair for small business

CONT.

edit: fixed two spleling erros (mine not the Kerry plan)

[Lestatdelc]

CONT.

Help Small Businesses Support Their Employees

Cut Health Care Costs By Two-Thirds.
Health care costs are rising about 15 percent this year on average for small businesses - and in some cases by as mush as 25 percent. Just 62 percent of businesses employing 10 to 49 people offered a health plan in 2002, whereas about 99 percent of large firms did. For small businesses, health care costs usually rise because of administrative costs and high premiums due to even one employee's high health care costs. As president, John Kerry will propose refundable tax credits for up to 50 percent of the cost of coverage to small businesses and their employees. He will also give small businesses access to the Congressional Health Plan to save them approximately 15 percent in health care costs on top of the tax credit - so health care will be two-thirds cheaper for small business employees than it is today.

Eliminate Capital Gains Taxes For Long-Term Investments In Small Businesses.
Small, entrepreneurial firms play a critical role in creating new jobs and commercializing new technologies. As new companies, they are less wedded to incremental improvements to existing products and services, but often have difficulty attracting capital because of the high degree of risk involved. As president, John Kerry will exempt investments held for five or more years in small businesses -- a proposal that would cost $6 billion over ten years.

Create a New Jobs Tax Credit For Small Businesses That Create Jobs. Research has demonstrated that new jobs tax credits increase employment. The Kerry-Edwards New Jobs Tax Credit will cover an employer's share of payroll expenses for net new jobs created by small businesses in 2005 and 2006.

Enact A New "Small Business Retirement Initiative"
To Help Small Businesses Offer Retirement Plans. Start-up costs are the biggest impediment for small businesses in starting a pension plan. In fact, setting up a small business pension plan can cost as much as $20,000 or more. And as pensions become more complex, managing them saps precious resources. The Kerry-Edwards plan will use tax credits to help offset the start-up costs of pension plans for small businesses. John Kerry and John Edwards also support a pension pooling fund to help pool the administrative costs of setting up pensions and savings plans for small businesses.

Tax Credits For Called-Up Reservists.
With so many reservists serving in Iraq, John Kerry and John Edwards believe that we need to provide support to small businesses whose reservists are called up for active duty. The Kerry-Edwards plan will provide small businesses that employ called-up reservists with thousands of dollars in tax breaks.

[Lestatdelc]

Was Kerry drafted?

No, he volunteered for the military, and volunteered to be sent to Vietnam. He served two tours in Vietnam. The second was as commander of Swift Boats and after being wounded three times was allowed to leave Vietnam before the end of his second tour.

If he was you are very wrong.

This poster's lame analogy is wrong regardless of wether Kerry was drafted or volunteered.

It is more analogous to say Kerry volunteered to join a program (war) with other people to go help make another neighborhood become safe from invading of criminals, and then found out this was not what the case and then protested this program (war) was predicated on a lie and immoral conduct was occurring as a result.

EDIT: fixed minor typo from "as" to "was" and two spelling errors.

[Ruzan]

Educate yourself and stop spreading lies..

I am educated, and I did not attack anyone on this thread, but you chose to attack me. I can understand why though, being upset and knowing that every gallop poll to date has Bush ahead. Knowing that your cop-out-playing-politics-with-my-family's-lives candidate is going to loose....badly.

Lestatdelc, you loose at life
(0) Continues remaning


[fyi] Im glad you have managed to learn to copy and paste, filling an entire forum page with junk.

Game Over, Thanks for Playing

[Lestatdelc]

I am educated

Not on this issue.

and I did not attack anyone on this thread, but you chose to attack me.

No I attacked your misinformation which you were propogating. Hence my admonishment to educate yourself on this issue before you continue to spread false information.

I can understand why though, being upset and knowing that every gallop poll to date has Bush ahead.

More fact devoid misinformation:

CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll. July 8 - Aug. 1, 2004. N=1,366 registered voters nationwide (MoE ± 3), including 1,129 likely voters (MoE ± 3).
.

Among registered voters:

7/30 - 8/1/04
Kerry 48
Bush 48

7/30-31/04
Kerry 50
Bush 47

7/19-21/04
Kerry 49
Bush 45

7/8-11/04
Kerry 51
Bush 44


And Gallup is one of the most Bush favored polls around, in numerous other polls, Kerry's lead is much greater.

http://www.pollingreport.com/wh04gen.htm


But your hyperbolic ranting and fear is not really addressing the facts and reality is it, though it is comforting.

Edits: fixed typos "Henc emy" to "Hence my" and three spelling errors.

[MalteseFalcon]

A New Era Of Opportunity For Small Business

Small businesses are the engine of the American economy. ...
CONT.

That was very well written. You would make a great writer for www.johnkerry.com (http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/economy/small_biz.html) or www.independentsforkerry.org (http://www.independentsforkerry.org/uploads/media/issue-healthcare.html) just to name a couple. :rolleyes:

[Lestatdelc]

That was very well written. You would make a great writer for www.johnkerry.com (http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/economy/small_biz.html) or www.independentsforkerry.org (http://www.independentsforkerry.org/uploads/media/issue-healthcare.html) just to name a couple. :rolleyes:

That was from the Kerry site.

[MalteseFalcon]

That was from the Kerry site.

Ooh! Now I see.

[daveo the great]

he was copying from the site to show what kerry's plan was....


some retard, i cant remember who, kept saying that they support bush because kerry never tells what his plan is.... and so that was copy paste of kerry's plan to prove the retard wrong.

[vchampionl70]

Among registered voters:

7/30 - 8/1/04
Kerry 48
Bush 48

7/30-31/04
Kerry 50
Bush 47

7/19-21/04
Kerry 49
Bush 45

7/8-11/04
Kerry 51
Bush 44


And Gallup is one of the most Bush favored polls around, in numerous other polls, Kerry's lead is much greater.

http://www.pollingreport.com/wh04gen.htm


But your hyperbolic ranting and fear is not really addressing the facts and reality is it, though it is comforting.

Edits: fixed typos "Henc emy" to "Hence my" and three spelling errors.

Would you be kind enough to show the people the Gallup poll's figures for likely voters please?

[Lestatdelc]

Would you be kind enough to show the people the Gallup poll's figures for likely voters please?

Sure thing...

Among likely voters:

7/30 - 8/1/04
Bush 51
Kerry 47

7/30-31/04
Bush 50
Kerry 47

7/19-21/04
Kerry 49
Bush 47

7/8-11/04
Kerry 50
Bush 46

So just in the last month, half of the Gallup polling of "likely" voters has Kerry up over Bush, half of them Bush over Kerry. Which, in conjunction with the registered voters (which is more likely given the methodology and other polling data available) directly refutes your false claim that Kerry has never lead Bush in any Gallup polls.

I would also gladly direct people to look at all the other polls, the vast majority of which ahow a much stronger and consistent Kerry result over Bush., as I said in my previous post.

http://www.pollingreport.com/wh04gen.htm

So you are factually WRONG in your previous post which I pointed out.

[BJ and UT5]

EXACTLY!!! kerry hardly makes up his mind

in a local paper there was some art on the front page, it was kerry on a tv saying with is hand pointing up like politicions usaly do:

"I'm john kerry and i aprove this message, as soon as i figur out was it is"

that was so funny my pure-republican mom felt sorry for the bitch

What does this have to do with anything? A political cartoon isn't exactly what i would call legitimate evidence that Kerry is a "flip-flopper". This term has become the biggest cliche of this election. Everyone says it and nobody knows what it means. This is why ideal candidates are usually governors. If you look at any senators voting record it looks similar in method. Senators always vote on a variety of issues from a variety of platforms because it is the nature of the job. The only way anything ever gets accomplished in our republic is through compromise. If you pick on stance on every issue and vote that way you are a totally ineffective representative.

Off the topic, I have not heard a seriously damning argument against Kerry being elected. It seems people either don't vote him because they don't like his political views (this doesn't make him incompetent, or evil), they have a problem with his history in vietnam (incredibly weak seeing as how the man has five medals, and served as an officer in a high risk position, not to mention exposing the fraud behind the swiftboat vets assoc.), or because of some other minute piece of crap that someone pulled from some obscure place in an attempt to make it look like the second holocaust.

That being said, Bush, in my opinion has not done a single thing to benefit this country since he has taken office. He has been a failure in both domestic and foreign politics, he has weakened relations with strong allies who should be on our side as we look to combat terror, he has ruined americas faith in his competence, and in some worst case scenarios he may have lied to us on a number of serious and grave issues.

[tiger army]

We learned how full of shit gallop polls are when it comes to anything important, so i don't trust a single bullshit poll i see. For all i know they could have asked Lil' pop punk asshole who are fed the same pro kerry bullshit and in the end they are gonna even vote.

[puppyroach]

We learned how full of shit gallop polls are when it comes to anything important, so i don't trust a single bullshit poll i see. For all i know they could have asked Lil' pop punk asshole who are fed the same pro kerry bullshit and in the end they are gonna even vote.

So by that arguing, if I understand you correctly, you say that you can´t trust the polls, right? So then it is possible that Kerry might have a lead over Bush anyway? Because the latest figures point to Bush having a small lead, but then again, polls are just BS... just wondeering...:)

[vchampionl70]

So just in the last month, half of the Gallup polling of "likely" voters has Kerry up over Bush, half of them Bush over Kerry. Which, in conjunction with the registered voters (which is more likely given the methodology and other polling data available) directly refutes your false claim that Kerry has never lead Bush in any Gallup polls.

I would also gladly direct people to look at all the other polls, the vast majority of which ahow a much stronger and consistent Kerry result over Bush., as I said in my previous post.

http://www.pollingreport.com/wh04gen.htm

So you are factually WRONG in your previous post which I pointed out.

Thanks for posting that. I thought it would be a good thing to show. As for what is likely to happen during the election, Gallup is one of the most accurate polls there is. As such, I refute your claim that the polls on registered voters is the more accurate and I ask you to check out the post on Gallup.com which shows its accuracy with previous elections. If you'll notice, the example they provide is that of 'likely voters' which is the better indicator during elections.

That being said, I note the interesting change in opinion of the likely voters after the covention. Since Mr. Kerry lost ground, this gives Mr. Bush an obvious advantage coming into his own convention [unless of course he loses support as well]. But, in your own polling of the unreliable registered vote, Mr. Kerry lost ground there after the convention as well. Clearly, according to the most reliable election poll nationwide (supported by CNN - the irony) this is now, and again, Mr. Bush's race to lose. :D

[BJ and UT5]

Bush has dont a single thing to benefit.....um yes he has -Dasani

This is brilliant really. I'm totally speechless. I guess you're right he has. Thanks for all that evidence. You didn't even try to create a coherent argument. Thanks again.

[Lestatdelc]

i have absolutly no respect for you

I am crushed. Of course I kinda got that when you called me a dumbass before when you incorrectly asserted what I said was wrong and I later showed that you were indeed factually wrong.

lestatdelc, you fit into the biased catagory of "anyone but bush" it seems like

Well, I wouldn't say "anyone" but I certainly am "biased" against a President who starts unjustified wars, gets thousands of our troops maimed and killed for no legitimate reason, did NOTHING prior to 9/11 to prevent it or go after al-Qaeda, runs up the largest deficit in our nations history, presides over the first net job loss term since Hoover (great depression), wants to write discrimination into our Constitution, seeks to cut combat pay to our troops, tries to cut vets benefits, makes us the most hated nation on the planet...

...but then I am kinda funny that way.

proof please?

Tell me what thing(s) specifically you want proof of and I will gladly oblige.

[BlueMind]

I'm just glad that when I get out of college and join the military, (in four years) Bush would no longer be president and won't be able to run again.

[Lestatdelc]

Thanks for posting that. I thought it would be a good thing to show. As for what is likely to happen during the election, Gallup is one of the most accurate polls there is.

Actully this is not true. The last two elections Zogby was one of the least accurat eof the major polling outfits. They have coaste don the reputaiton for decades but are actually not worth much nowadays. Zogby for example was the only one to show it as it turned out and was also more accurate in the 02 election than Gallup.

Pollster John Zogby credits his polling model for its accurate results. "We take special pains to stratify our sample so that it is representative regionally," Zogby tells Insight. "We have our callers and our own call center and they are carefully supervised." He blames the networks for giving away Florida so early in the evening, when he says the information they were getting was showing only narrow leads.

The only polls accurately to predict a Gore lead in the national popular vote were Reuters/Zogby and CBS. The latter predicted a Gore lead of 1 percent and Zogby a 2 percent Gore lead. link (http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_45_16/ai_72328963)

Of course you can hold Gallup near and dear if you like, but it has been consistently the outlier of major poll