Red Faction: Guerilla

[dcam0326]

Looks like games are really elaborating on the 'destructible environment' card. They're taking it to a whole new level.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/39560.html

Looks like a cool concept but I'm worried some games are going to focus too much on it and it will replace good gameplay.

[The_Canadian]

Can someone please tell me which console it's NOT for?

[dcam0326]

Can someone please tell me which console it's NOT for?

God, you're fucking annoying.

[The_Canadian]

God, you're fucking annoying.
Anyone knoew why it's not? I mean, the console does have teh must innvashuntive cuntruls evAr!

[potatopaper]

Can someone please tell me which console it's NOT for?

Dreamcast.

[Orakar]

Looks awesome! A friend of mine was telling me that the buildings are so realistic in terms of physics, that the first one they made collapsed, and they had to get structural engineers to diagnose and fix the building so it was stable.

=D

[Nickster]

Looks pretty awesome actually, but I hope don't skimp on the actual shooting and AI while they're trying to perfect the destruction.

I can also see it being a total pain in the ass, they had better put in some fucking jetpacks in case I blow up a bridge I'm trying to get over.

[Thomson]

i will bet £1000 that this game will fail.

[Elephant]

there was a beta for this, i still have it on my 360 harddrive, i wonder if it still lets me play.

[Shaster]

i will bet £1000 that this game will fail.

I'll see that and raise you 5000 pennies that this game will not fail.

[usefulidiot316]

Looks like games are really elaborating on the 'destructible environment' card. They're taking it to a whole new level.


Haven't you ever played the original Red Faction? YouTube - Red Faction 1 (PS2) Trailer The game was all about destructible environments, and as far as I know, it was the first with it. I remember creating hiding spots with a rocket launcher, and digging tunnels from one area to another with explosives. Without the destructible environments, Red Faction is just another fps.

[rand0m]

Haven't you ever played the original Red Faction? YouTube - Red Faction 1 (PS2) Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkKGcfE9nPg) The game was all about destructible environments, and as far as I know, it was the first with it. I remember creating hiding spots with a rocket launcher, and digging tunnels from one area to another with explosives. Without the destructible environments, Red Faction is just another fps.

QFT

Omg I had so much fun with this game.

Some of the Multiplayer maps had weapons you could only get to if you blew the walls appart.

I remember me and my bro playing and trying out just how well the Geomod works, one of the mutiplayer maps had like bridges spanning across it, so we went in and cut one side of the bridge off, then cut the other side ... did the rest just remain floating? did it just dissapear? Nope teh whole thing collapsed and landed in pieces ... pure epicness ...

[dcam0326]

Haven't you ever played the original Red Faction? YouTube - Red Faction 1 (PS2) Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkKGcfE9nPg) The game was all about destructible environments, and as far as I know, it was the first with it. I remember creating hiding spots with a rocket launcher, and digging tunnels from one area to another with explosives. Without the destructible environments, Red Faction is just another fps.

I don't mean for the series alone, I mean for this generation of games as a whole. As in its the new gimmick. Like BF:BC, except even MORE destructible.

[The_Canadian]

I don't mean for the series alone, I mean for this generation of games as a whole. As in its the new gimmick. Like BF:BC, except even MORE destructible.
RF Guerrilla is the only one that is dynamic. Name me any other game that you can take down a structure piece by piece.

[dcam0326]

RF Guerrilla is the only one that is dynamic. Name me any other game that you can take down a structure piece by piece.

*facepalm*

NONE! Thats why I said that some games are really elaborating on destructible environments.

[usefulidiot316]

I don't mean for the series alone, I mean for this generation of games as a whole. As in its the new gimmick. Like BF:BC, except even MORE destructible.

I don't really think it's a new gimmick. Physics and destructible environments are like the graphics of the future of gaming, only a lot more interactive. Remember in older games how your enemies would hide behind trees and come out just long enough to shoot at you? Well, in the future, you can whip out a rocket launcher, and in a couple rounds, the enemy no longer has a place to hide. Remember when you had to find a way to get to the door that was just too high up to jump up into? YouTube - Fracture teaser Whip out a terrain deformation grenade and raise the terrain and walk right on up to the door. Remember when Line of sight was a problem with shooting from a tank? Just level a mountain one tank round at a time.

The ability to alter your terrain the way you see fit to help get through a level faster is a lot more important to games than HDR and parallax mapping ever could be. I think it's less like a gimmick and more like a revolution.

Also, I can't wait to see fracture, but I'd love to see a puzzle game like Portal, but with terrain deformation instead of teleportation.

[The_Canadian]

*facepalm*

NONE! Thats why I said that some games are really elaborating on destructible environments.
Wtf? You said that destruction was the new gimmick. if you don't know what a gimmick is, it makes something sound a lot cooler than it actually is, but doesn't really add anything. as an example, the wiimote. Nintendo was like "teh wiimote is teh must innvotashuntive cuntrul evAr n it will change gaming 4evAr!" But in reality, it was justa piece of shit and regular controllers did a better job.

What you're saying is that a lot of games are going "lul teh enviromant is teh destroyable n dat makes teh game bettAr!" In other words,

Mercs 2, etc is a game with destuction
Guerrilla is destruction

[The_Guitarist]

RF Guerrilla is the only one that is dynamic. Name me any other game that you can take down a structure piece by piece.
Crysis. :dunce:

[Mr.SelfDestruct]

Wtf? You said that destruction was the new gimmick. if you don't know what a gimmick is, it makes something sound a lot cooler than it actually is, but doesn't really add anything. as an example, the wiimote. Nintendo was like "teh wiimote is teh must innvotashuntive cuntrul evAr n it will change gaming 4evAr!" But in reality, it was justa piece of shit and regular controllers did a better job.

What you're saying is that a lot of games are going "lul teh enviromant is teh destroyable n dat makes teh game bettAr!" In other words,

Mercs 2, etc is a game with destuction
Guerrilla is destruction

gimmick - an ingenious or novel device, scheme, or stratagem, esp. one designed to attract attention or increase appeal.

Yeah, I'd say the destructable environments count.

Something that qualifies as "gimmicky" is anything intended to attract attention to the object in question. Generally speaking, every game you see is going to have some sort of "gimmick" to it, be it interesting design, or pretty graphics. If the game isn't doing anything to attract attention to itself, it's probably a substandard game.

It's best to understand a word before you use it at all. Especially if you're going to bash another person for using it "incorrectly", when they were, in fact, using it correctly.

[rand0m]

gimmick - an ingenious or novel device, scheme, or stratagem, esp. one designed to attract attention or increase appeal.

Yeah, I'd say the destructable environments count.

Something that qualifies as "gimmicky" is anything intended to attract attention to the object in question. Generally speaking, every game you see is going to have some sort of "gimmick" to it, be it interesting design, or pretty graphics. If the game isn't doing anything to attract attention to itself, it's probably a substandard game.

It's best to understand a word before you use it at all. Especially if you're going to bash another person for using it "incorrectly", when they were, in fact, using it correctly.

Are you sure?

Wikipedia - Gimmick (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimmick)

In marketing language, a gimmick is a unique or quirky special feature that makes something "stand out" from its contemporaries. However, the special feature is typically thought to be of little relevance or use. Thus, a gimmick is a special feature for the sake of having a special feature.

Major product features which are poorly designed become known as gimmicks to the product users. Plastic devices often suffer from weak structural components or fragile construction, leading to deforming and cracking of the over-strained and poorly engineered mechanisms. This leaves the owner with the basic functions of the item and the gimmick disabled or, in the case of very cheaply produced products, the gimmick broken completely from the main body of the item.

... what ... like plugging a gamecube controller into a Wii?

Currently the Wii-mote has not rewritten the way we play games, and has not delivered on it's revolution. It is a special feature ... for the sake of having a special feature.

Destructable enviroments are adding a new layer to the first person shooting enviroment. It is opening up possiblities in tactics, enviromental interaction, realism and immersion.

Red Faction has already proven destructable enviroments work, it is not an attraction for the sack of an attraction, it is what the Wii should be, an innovation.

[Mr.SelfDestruct]

Are you sure?

Wikipedia - Gimmick (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimmick)





... what ... like plugging a gamecube controller into a Wii?

Currently the Wii-mote has not rewritten the way we play games, and has not delivered on it's revolution. It is a special feature ... for the sake of having a special feature.

Destructable enviroments are adding a new layer to the first person shooting enviroment. It is opening up possiblities in tactics, enviromental interaction, realism and immersion.

Red Faction has already proven destructable enviroments work, it is not an attraction for the sack of an attraction, it is what the Wii should be, an innovation.

*sigh*

And tell me, what does the word "typically" mean in that context?

[rand0m]

*sigh*

And tell me, what does the word "typically" mean in that context?

"standard, model, normal, classic, stock, essential, representative, usual, conventional, regular, characteristic, orthodox, indicative, illustrative, archetypical"

[Mr.SelfDestruct]

So, not "absolute" huh?

I'm strange like that. I usually take the concrete definition of a word.

You went with Wikipedia. I took Webster's dictionary.

[rand0m]

Right so you enjoying stalling now?

Because we all know what the word gimmick implies, stop side tracking around the issue here.

It's become overly clear Nintendo's motion controller has not revolutionised the gaming industry, shit the only people that have even managed to do anything with it is Nintendo and still they are just making games that you can plug a gamecube controller in and use.

Wii-mote is a gimmick. Destructable enviroments could be a gimmick however like I've stated many games have proven otherwise.

[Mr.SelfDestruct]

Right so you enjoying stalling now?

Because we all know what the word gimmick implies, stop side tracking around the issue here.

It's become overly clear Nintendo's motion controller has not revolutionised the gaming industry, shit the only people that have even managed to do anything with it is Nintendo and still they are just making games that you can plug a gamecube controller in and use.

Wii-mote is a gimmick. Destructable enviroments could be a gimmick however like I've stated many games have proven otherwise.

Stalling?

I took the literal concrete definition from the most respected dictionary available.

You went to the internet.

Also, if we really want to take your definition, the wii-mote has been proven to improve gameplay with a game ported from the Gamecube.

Resident Evil 4

Survey says: The aiming on the Wii is far superior.

[rand0m]

Survey says: The aiming on the Wii is far superior.

Ok so its easier to aim ... only with a mouse is easier too ...

The Wii hasen't opened any doors to new ways to play a game ...

Besides Resident Evil 4 still played out fine on the PS2 and GameCube ...

[Mr.SelfDestruct]

Ok so its easier to aim ... only with a mouse is easier too ...

I don't get your point here. So we shouldn't use controllers with joysticks for aiming because a mouse is superior?

Frankly, I'd agree with you. The PS3 controller and the XBox controller are both inferior.

The Wii hasen't opened any doors to new ways to play a game ...

It actually has. Sure, the games that actually use the three dimensional controls of the Wiimote are few and far between. But that doesn't mean the Wiimote fails, it means the games that don't utilize the full three dimensional controls are failing.

I'm pretty sure I mention this title on a regular basis: Elebits. You can control an object's height, range, depth, and orientation, in relation to the character, simply by how you move the controller around. You cannot do that with a mouse, or a joystick, since both move in just two dimensions.

Besides Resident Evil 4 still played out fine on the PS2 and GameCube ...

And it has potential to play just fine on an SNES gamepad as well. Should we sacrifice the superior control because of that?

Again, I don't see your point here.

[rand0m]

I don't get your point here. So we shouldn't use controllers with joysticks for aiming because a mouse is superior?

I'm saying that improving the accuracy is nothing when a mouse is already one of the most accurate.

Frankly, I'd agree with you. The PS3 controller and the XBox controller are both inferior.

It's playable though, its not as accurate as a mouse or the Wii-mote however for these current gen games and probably quite a few future generation games it works fine. People on the PS3 and 360 don't complain that they can't aim or 'control' in FPS, sure its not as nimble and accurate but it works.

It actually has. Sure, the games that actually use the three dimensional controls of the Wiimote are few and far between. But that doesn't mean the Wiimote fails, it means the games that don't utilize the full three dimensional controls are failing.

The argument for the Wii-motes failure is purely the fact that the majority of games are not using it to its full effect. Why? Because it seems that 3 dimensional axis sensing, wiggling and shacking seem alittle excessive where a simple button push would suffice.

The Wii-mote should of had a break through by now, however it seems it's unique abilities will stick with replacing a button push with a waggle. It had potential however it seems that for video gaming in its current state just doesn't work with it ...

I'm pretty sure I mention this title on a regular basis: Elebits. You can control an object's height, range, depth, and orientation, in relation to the character, simply by how you move the controller around. You cannot do that with a mouse, or a joystick, since both move in just two dimensions.

Yeah you go on about this game, however I've never seen it in any stores or heard anyone else talk about these game. I haven't played it so I'm not going to pass judgement on the control scheme however if the game works so well why hasen't the control scheme spread throughout all the other Wii games?


And it has potential to play just fine on an SNES gamepad as well. Should we sacrifice the superior control because of that?

Not quite, the SNES controller has effectively 8 buttons. The playstation 2 controller has 12 buttons (4 depth sensitive buttons) with 2 analog sticks. The GameCube controller has almost as many. To remap the controll scheme onto the SNES controller would effectiely kill some abilities or seriously hinder them.

[The_Canadian]

Crysis. :dunce:
Hardly. The only destructible environments were just small shacks, the bigger buildings were invincible.

[yamahadrummer]

i remember owning in red faction multiplayer back in the day

[Shaster]

I'm saying that improving the accuracy is nothing when a mouse is already one of the most accurate.



It's playable though, its not as accurate as a mouse or the Wii-mote however for these current gen games and probably quite a few future generation games it works fine. People on the PS3 and 360 don't complain that they can't aim or 'control' in FPS, sure its not as nimble and accurate but it works.



The argument for the Wii-motes failure is purely the fact that the majority of games are not using it to its full effect. Why? Because it seems that 3 dimensional axis sensing, wiggling and shacking seem alittle excessive where a simple button push would suffice.

The Wii-mote should of had a break through by now, however it seems it's unique abilities will stick with replacing a button push with a waggle. It had potential however it seems that for video gaming in its current state just doesn't work with it ...



Yeah you go on about this game, however I've never seen it in any stores or heard anyone else talk about these game. I haven't played it so I'm not going to pass judgement on the control scheme however if the game works so well why hasen't the control scheme spread throughout all the other Wii games?




Not quite, the SNES controller has effectively 8 buttons. The playstation 2 controller has 12 buttons (4 depth sensitive buttons) with 2 analog sticks. The GameCube controller has almost as many. To remap the controll scheme onto the SNES controller would effectiely kill some abilities or seriously hinder them.

First you say Nintendo's controller is not what it's hyped up to be. He says, but it can still improve gameplay. You say well with a mouse it's the most accurate, then go on to make an argument to everything he said that has nothing to do with the main topic. Is it safe to say this "debate" is going nowhere?

[Mr.SelfDestruct]

I'm saying that improving the accuracy is nothing when a mouse is already one of the most accurate.

Actually, I'd be interested to see a side by side comparison with several people. Both sides could be argued as more "accurate". But I think the differences would be too slight in the end to be worth noting.

It's playable though, its not as accurate as a mouse or the Wii-mote however for these current gen games and probably quite a few future generation games it works fine. People on the PS3 and 360 don't complain that they can't aim or 'control' in FPS, sure its not as nimble and accurate but it works.

I hate playing FPS games on consoles in general, but don't mind it on the Wii. Sure, I don't complain about it, I just have my preference, and I'm sure many other gamers are the same way.

The argument for the Wii-motes failure is purely the fact that the majority of games are not using it to its full effect. Why? Because it seems that 3 dimensional axis sensing, wiggling and shacking seem alittle excessive where a simple button push would suffice.

I agree with the wiggling and shaking. I fail to see the point in it as well. But then again, I seem to remember a bunch of people jizzing over the completely redundant six-axis on the PS3's controller.

However, despite that, it's still fun. Mario Kart on the Wii is a blast to play using the wiimote instead of a gamecube controller. I've used both, felt a bit more comfortable with the gamecube controller, but still used the wiimote just because it was more entertaining.

Yeah you go on about this game, however I've never seen it in any stores or heard anyone else talk about these game. I haven't played it so I'm not going to pass judgement on the control scheme however if the game works so well why hasen't the control scheme spread throughout all the other Wii games?

It's an awesome game. If you get a chance, give it a shot. It's fun as hell to play.

The primary reason why you don't see the control scheme in other games, however, is because it's unique to that particular game. I'd love to see an FPS title on the Wii that has you play the role of a person with telekinetic abilities, and you use your powers instead of a gun as your primary weapon. Picking up a person, and tossing them against a wall with a flick of your wrist.

Not quite, the SNES controller has effectively 8 buttons. The playstation 2 controller has 12 buttons (4 depth sensitive buttons) with 2 analog sticks. The GameCube controller has almost as many. To remap the controll scheme onto the SNES controller would effectiely kill some abilities or seriously hinder them.

So, wait, now you DO want better controls?

Earlier, it was just all about what was effective, not what was better.:bigwink:

[willsk84food.]

I saw this on E3 like 4 months ago...

[dcam0326]

I saw this on E3 like 4 months ago...

And did you make a thread about it? NO!
:wave:

[rand0m]

And did you make a thread about it? NO!
:wave:

Actually 2 of us have ...

http://forum.ebaumsworld.com/showthread.php?t=272005

http://forum.ebaumsworld.com/showthread.php?t=264906

[dcam0326]

Actually 2 of us have ...

http://forum.ebaumsworld.com/showthread.php?t=272005

http://forum.ebaumsworld.com/showthread.php?t=264906

Well fuck your shit.

[davo canavo]

Goddammit Rand0m and Canadian are fucking annoying. Y'know, the whole "mocking something using leet speak" thing only goes so far, asshats. You look like a dumbass when you do it four times a post.

Anyway, this game looks pretty sweet, so far. The first two RF's were badass. I think I beat RF2 like four or five times.

[The_Canadian]

Goddammit Rand0m and Canadian are fucking annoying. Y'know, the whole "mocking something using leet speak" thing only goes so far, asshats. You look like a dumbass when you do it four times a post.

Anyway, this game looks pretty sweet, so far. The first two RF's were badass. I think I beat RF2 like four or five times.
You beat RF2 atleast 4 or 5 times?

Here's a gun, you know what to do

[davo canavo]

You beat RF2 atleast 4 or 5 times?

Here's a gun, you know what to do

Oh, but wait... Wasn't?... Hey guys, wasn't Red Fact...? Yes, it seems Red Faction 2 was released on computer. But... The_Canadian doesn't like it? Hmm... strange... very strange. It must've been lacking some special content or guns or something that was only available on crapbox and pee station 2, right Canadian?




(btw, canada is america's hat.)

[rand0m]

Goddammit Rand0m and Canadian are fucking annoying. Y'know, the whole "mocking something using leet speak" thing only goes so far, asshats.

... I'm using leet speak?