View Full Version : The most exciting finish in sports?
Shymega
10-06-2008, 09:59 PM
Another debate we can all fight over for the next few days.
Picture all sports that this stuff happens to in it's biggest games.
Devastation
10-06-2008, 10:06 PM
Depends on which sport you are debating about.
As for my list:
Baseball -- The "Shot Heard 'Round the World", 1951
Football -- Too many to choose from here, there have been all kinds of fantastic finishes, but I'll have to go with (slight bias here) Kentucky's sudden death overtime victory over Alabama in 1997 (first victory over the Tide in 75 years).
For a more well-known finish, it's hard to argue with the 1958 Colts (Baltimore)-Giants NFL Championship game. It was worth the $19.95 for the dvd.
Basketball -- Once again, some slight bias (heh, slight) here, but I have to say the finish I remember most was the 1998 Elite Eight game between Kentucky and Duke. The "Shot Heard Round the Bluegrass" both absolved the demons of the infamous 1992 game and propelled UK into the Final Four and their second title in three years.
Or, how about Indiana-Syracuse 1987? Great game.
Horseracing -- 2005 Kentucky Derby. Fucking Giacomo.
Edit: I made this post before the poll was born. I voted "other" because it was just too hard to choose.
Unhinged
10-06-2008, 10:49 PM
Tie between overtime hockey goal and game-winning injury time soccer goal.
cricket run chase in a test match when it gets to the final session. Trust me
Marcos2990
10-07-2008, 11:31 AM
i can't between overtime winning goal or buzzer beating shot. :banghead:
chalupa
10-07-2008, 12:15 PM
Two words: Immaculate Reception
i'm no red wings fan, but this is good proof why it's dominating the poll
YouTube - steve yzermans famous double ot shot (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJTAnyLn_RI)
oh and steve yzerman is fucking awesome
one of my favorite in recent memories
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe27QjoolKo
Presence
10-07-2008, 09:12 PM
Best recent one was the Texans vs Colts last week. I couldn't stop laughing at Rosenfels... rofl never seen a team choke that bad.
griffmoneyx1984
10-08-2008, 12:53 AM
basketball game winning shot.. because more often than not. it isnt luck
why? because basketball players are more in controll of making the shot than any other profesional athlete
not golf because of differing courses playing into effect
not hockey because of goalies differing skill and low percentage of scoring
not football because of field position and relying on others
not baseball because of batting orders
and not soccer because of the same reasons as hockey
a basketball player can single handedly dribble out the clock and create his own shot to win the game. and that one player can be pre determined
and his ability to make the shot is almost entirely due to his skill level. even the best defender in the nba has absolutely no effect on the best scorer
they will still get "their shot"...
like you see with jerry west, michael jordan, larry bird, reggie miller and now kobe bryant... it is always the best mid range to outside shooters that dominate these moments regularly. but with the other sports.. it can be anyone and everyone taking that shot or making that play. because they are as random as playing the lottery... with the nba. you know whos getting the ball
and you know whos taking the shot...the question is will he make it... or miss it
and when he does. its the most exciting play in sports
/Tilt/
10-08-2008, 12:57 AM
Basketball can be really epic if the shot is incredible, but there's usually some bullshit like "did he beat the shot clock." Also, some shots are lame and just happen to drop.
Hockey happens too fast. It's like "oh we're playing hockey oooo they're passing the-GOAL!!!!!!!!!!!" You don't see it coming.
Football field goals are really lame. I think that they should make it so you can't kick field goals from the 4th quarter on.
Soccer, same reason as hockey.
The winning putt in golf is cool, but no one is there to see it.
That leaves the walk-off home run. Walk offs are epic in general, but when it's a home run it's incredible. Walk off home runs are very rare and very special.
Banzai
10-08-2008, 01:04 AM
Hockey over time goal. It's constant possession changes with the next goal sealing the game. Sykora's OT goal against Detriot in the Cup Finals was one of the craziest things I have experienced. And it was like 2 in the morning.
YankeesSuck
10-08-2008, 01:41 AM
I love hockey games that go 3 overtimes in the playoffs.
Second is a homerun in baseball.
AsHopeDies
10-08-2008, 10:17 AM
Some of those aren't necessarily finishes, they can be, but they aren't required to be. The only "true" finishes are walk off homerun, hockey overtime goal, and putt on the 18th hole. Of those, I picked walk off homerun. Having seen them all, it's just the one that gets me the most excited. I'd say the hockey goal is second and putt is 3rd. The hockey goal is close but the thing that does it in for me is that it's required to happen. It loses some excitement when you know, for a fact, that it will happen. I mean, the game won't end until someone scores, so you know there will be a game winning goal. The putt is 3rd because it's such a variable. If it's a tap in, then it's very exciting at all, but if it's a really long putt then it is.
PattyWackit
10-08-2008, 05:00 PM
I really liked Luis Gonzalez's walk off single in game 7 of the 2001 world series, mostly because the yankees lost
Mr. Heskey
10-08-2008, 06:25 PM
OT playoff hockey is ecstasy. It's like a 30 minute natural high.
ftbllplr
10-08-2008, 06:28 PM
The most exciting finish ever is the finish you are a art of, whether its as a player or a fan.
High On PCP
10-08-2008, 07:26 PM
Field goal wins are kind of lame but... well, I and probably many others will say that this is one of the best finishes to a game ever.
Stanford vs Cal, 1982-
YouTube - The Play: Bears Attack the Band
I agree with the announcer- it's the most amazing, sensational, dramatic, heartrending, exciting, thrilling finish ever in college football.
sprak_
10-09-2008, 03:47 AM
I voted for game winning shot in basketball.
Walk off HRs and game winning FGs aren't even that exciting unless you're a fan of the team that wins.
A play at the plate, hail mary, kickoff return, or some kind of trick play are all much better.
Eaglefan9727
10-09-2008, 09:18 AM
I agree with the announcer- it's the most amazing, sensational, dramatic, heartrending, exciting, thrilling finish ever in college football.
That Standford vs. Cal game was a great finish. I remember watching the game and I couldnt believe what I was watching and how it turned out.
Anyways, Another classic was the Kirk Gibson home run from 1988. I was at the game and it was a amazing finish.
YouTube - Voluntad de acero..!!! Kirk Gibson 1988
Smugs
10-27-2008, 05:32 PM
England vs Australia Rugby World Cup Final in 2003
At 17-17 with just minutes left of the second half of extra time they get the ball to Johnny Wilkinson who boots it through the uprights for a three point drop goal winning the World Cup for us.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=tM-c8GeI1Vc
Xeonia
11-13-2008, 06:33 PM
I'd say something like the 2007 Superbowl, it didnt have a particularly dramatic ending, its just that nobody could believe it.
But, I cant resist voting for the golf putt, when all the tension is released, its amazing, especially after a tense tournament. Like the Ryder Cup
4savo4
11-13-2008, 06:39 PM
YouTube - man united champions league final 1999
END OF MOTHERFUCKING THREAD :cool:
AsHopeDies
11-13-2008, 06:48 PM
END OF MOTHERFUCKING THREAD :cool:
But that wasn't a finish.
High On PCP
11-13-2008, 06:55 PM
But that wasn't a finish.
LOL, fucking burn.
Super burn because he tried to claim the end of thread.
I'd say something like the 2007 Superbowl, it didnt have a particularly dramatic ending, its just that nobody could believe it.
But, I cant resist voting for the golf putt, when all the tension is released, its amazing, especially after a tense tournament. Like the Ryder Cup
I'm confused? Did you mean the 2008 superbowl? Because it did have a dramatic ending.
And the 2007 superbowl... well many people did believe that the colts were capable of winning it.
:confuzed:
4savo4
11-13-2008, 07:15 PM
But that wasn't a finish.
Yes it was you idiot. Last kick of the game.
90th minute 1 nil down 3 minutes added on 2 goals in the space of 3 minutes. That's a finish.
Nick is cool
11-13-2008, 08:02 PM
Yes it was you idiot. Last kick of the game.
90th minute 1 nil down 3 minutes added on 2 goals in the space of 3 minutes. That's a finish.
Nothing is exciting in soccer, you idiot.
jkmodsdontbanme
Shymega
11-13-2008, 09:55 PM
It qualifies because it was in injury time.
Fag Boy
11-14-2008, 01:25 AM
In basketball when the score is 90-89, with 10 seconds on the and the losing team has the ball. It dosnt get any more exciting then that, because you know, that this is it, the game will be decided in those 10 seconds. Its not like when its a a tie score and you can just throw up whatever you want without worry because you can go to overtime. You have to hold the ball until 2-3 seconds, and then score, and you usually only get one shot, anything else will be a desperate tip. Kids around the world dont go out in their backyard and say
"2 seconds on the clock, its 4th down on the 35 with the score tied"
"The snap"
"THe kick is up"
"IT'S GOOOOD"
"wait a minute, their is talk on the sideline"
"It appears they called a timeout just before the snap"
Frostdaddy
11-14-2008, 02:07 AM
Darlington, Spring 2003. NASCAR.
TheDuff
11-14-2008, 03:51 AM
Count my vote for buzzer beater in tournament basketball ( a la 1992 Duke vs. Kentucky, even though Duke sucks epic balls) for the most pure excitement in sports
KakUMei
11-14-2008, 06:50 AM
Darlington, Spring 2003. NASCAR.
The one with Ricky Craven and Kurt Busch? I was there.
ehogepr
11-14-2008, 09:48 AM
OT playoff hockey is ecstasy. It's like a 30 minute natural high.
Same.
Although it would have been tougher to choose would you have put game winning touchdown/touchdown drive in the final few minute. But there isn't much more excitment then watching a game winning, or OT goal.
AsHopeDies
11-14-2008, 10:47 AM
Yes it was you idiot. Last kick of the game.
90th minute 1 nil down 3 minutes added on 2 goals in the space of 3 minutes. That's a finish.
Not it isn't you idiot. There is no "buzzer" in soccer. There is no "golden goal". There is an ambiguous amount of 'extra time' added to the end of each half, and even this extra time doesn't have a definitive end. Did the ref blow the whistle right after the goal or did Bayern have to take the ball in at midfield and then he blew the whistle? I'm not downplaying the significance of that comeback or how exciting it was, but it's good to see your inferiority complex is in full force. But it's not a 'finish'. It's an amazing comeback, one of the best ever, and a damn exciting end of the game. But fuck man, you're just wrong. Good to see you can engage in this discussion in a civil manner also....
you fucking idiot.
It qualifies because it was in injury time.
Why's that? Because you said so?
Shymega
11-14-2008, 10:51 AM
Why's that? Because you said so?
Yes, it's my topic you clown. I think that's what Savo was referring too. Way to go off on a rant.
4savo4
11-14-2008, 11:07 AM
Not it isn't you idiot. There is no "buzzer" in soccer. There is no "golden goal". There is an ambiguous amount of 'extra time' added to the end of each half, and even this extra time doesn't have a definitive end. Did the ref blow the whistle right after the goal or did Bayern have to take the ball in at midfield and then he blew the whistle? I'm not downplaying the significance of that comeback or how exciting it was, but it's good to see your inferiority complex is in full force. But it's not a 'finish'. It's an amazing comeback, one of the best ever, and a damn exciting end of the game. But fuck man, you're just wrong. Good to see you can engage in this discussion in a civil manner also....
Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury, this is what i present to you as to why AsHopesDies will never "get" Football.
It's a finish just because it went on for another 3 seconds doesnt mean it's not. Bayern kicked off then he blew there was one more kick in the game. If that doesnt count nothing will.
AsHopeDies
11-14-2008, 11:38 AM
Yes, it's my topic you clown. I think that's what Savo was referring too. Way to go off on a rant.
Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury, this is what i present to you as to why AsHopesDies will never "get" Football.
It's a finish just because it went on for another 3 seconds doesnt mean it's not. Bayern kicked off then he blew there was one more kick in the game. If that doesnt count nothing will.
Ok, so I wrote out this long answer about all this stuff and my internet died...so it's probably good that I don't say some of the stuff I was going to. I'll leave it at this. I completely get football, you are stretching with that. What I feel that you don't 'get', is the difference between a finish in something like baseball or golf, and a finish in something that is timed, a buzzer beater, and furthermore, the finish in a sport with no definitive clock or buzzer.
It's my opinion, and some obviously agree, that the order of true finishes goes: non-timed (walk off homer, winning putt, hockey goal in OT), timed (buzzer beater, hail mary as time expires), and finally timed with no buzzer (extra time in soccer).
In soccer, if it was a golden goal scenario, or even the last shot of a shootout, I'd say that's more of a "finish" than a goal near the end of extra time. Not taking away the excitement or how amazing of a comeback that was in the champions league final, but it's just not a true finish to me, and some others. I don't give a shit who made the thread, doesn't mean we all agree with it.
the question is most exciting finish. if the scores are level then someone scores in the last minute of injury time how is that not a finish?
AsHopeDies
11-14-2008, 12:05 PM
It's just different. If they would have scored in the last two minutes of injury time or the last minute of injury time, it's no different. They scored the winning goal near the end of the game, sure, but, to me, it's not a finish.
Two scenarios:
1) Bottom of the 9th inning, one runner on, 2 outs, the team batting is losing by 1 run. The guy at bat hits a two run, walk off homer. The game is over, his team wins, place goes crazy.
2) Tie game in the premiere league, 90 minutes is up, ref adds 3 minutes of stoppage time. Is that 3 minutes on the clock on the scoreboard or 3 minutes on the refs watch? One team scores at the 2:45 mark, they celebrate for 15 seconds. The other team goes to kick the ball in at mid-field, they get two kicks in, ref blows the whistle, at the 3:07 mark.
I'm not comfortable labeling those two the same thing, I'm sorry. I don't see it.
Liberator13
11-14-2008, 12:08 PM
i'm no red wings fan, but this is good proof why it's dominating the poll
YouTube - steve yzermans famous double ot shot (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJTAnyLn_RI)
oh and steve yzerman is fucking awesome
one of my favorite in recent memories
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe27QjoolKo
Good man, but that Vid is wrong. Yzerman was a legend before that goal. Always liked how Gretzky gave it away and Yzerman got the goal off of that.
Mysterio
11-14-2008, 12:44 PM
Golf on the poll should be playoff holes.
But It's hard to pick one, they are all really exciting. Unless we are just picking single best finishes but even then that is hard to pick just 1
High On PCP
11-14-2008, 02:31 PM
In basketball when the score is 90-89, with 10 seconds on the and the losing team has the ball. It dosnt get any more exciting then that, because you know, that this is it, the game will be decided in those 10 seconds. Its not like when its a a tie score and you can just throw up whatever you want without worry because you can go to overtime. You have to hold the ball until 2-3 seconds, and then score, and you usually only get one shot, anything else will be a desperate tip. Kids around the world dont go out in their backyard and say
LOL- I'm just gonna guess but I don't think you watch football. Or if you do, you had me fooled.
Shymega
11-14-2008, 03:13 PM
Ok, so I wrote out this long answer about all this stuff and my internet died...so it's probably good that I don't say some of the stuff I was going to. I'll leave it at this. I completely get football, you are stretching with that. What I feel that you don't 'get', is the difference between a finish in something like baseball or golf, and a finish in something that is timed, a buzzer beater, and furthermore, the finish in a sport with no definitive clock or buzzer.
It's my opinion, and some obviously agree, that the order of true finishes goes: non-timed (walk off homer, winning putt, hockey goal in OT), timed (buzzer beater, hail mary as time expires), and finally timed with no buzzer (extra time in soccer).
In soccer, if it was a golden goal scenario, or even the last shot of a shootout, I'd say that's more of a "finish" than a goal near the end of extra time. Not taking away the excitement or how amazing of a comeback that was in the champions league final, but it's just not a true finish to me, and some others. I don't give a shit who made the thread, doesn't mean we all agree with it.
You know that in American football and Basketball it's timed as well, right? If a team is down by 2 and a guy hits a 3 pointer to take the lead with only 1 or 2 seconds left, that's still considered a finish if it ends that way. A game winning field goal with 10 seconds left is still a finish as well (although they may be more exciting with no time left, but that's not the total point).
A "potential" game winning goal scored in added time is the same deal as the two scenarios I just explained.
There is a fine line between it being considered a finish and not a finish(I think we can all agree on that), but not all finishes have to end with no time left.
AsHopeDies
11-14-2008, 03:40 PM
I said as much in my post that you quoted. Seems like we're just discussing semantics at this point. What is and isn't a "true finish." To me, the two scenarios you played out aren't "finishes". To some, they may be, and that's fine. We don't have to agree. But to hear about "finish" in a soccer game is just off to me. The way the time is handled in soccer is so odd, to consider something a 'finish' just seems wrong. I echo my earlier comments, it speaks nothing to the integrity or quality of the sport. Golf and baseball have two of the only true finishes and many consider them to be very boring sports. The integrity of a 'finish' doesn't equate to a better sport.
moose
11-14-2008, 04:42 PM
Being a football player.....nothing excites me more than a team scoring when time runs out and they're still down by one and instead of kicking the extra point, they go for two. Having been on both sides of this in meaningful games (state playoffs/conference championship), this has to be the most exciting moment in sports. 2 feet between a win and a loss, an entire game on the line with one play. Even as a fan watching the lonely gophers go for two against Northern Illinois the first game of this season was pretty intense to watch.
To me a walkoff home-run isnt that exciting. Hockey OT is pretty incredible ( ala last years stanley cup finals). Watching Tiger on that playoff this year was intense. Watching Blake Hoffarber catch turn and shoot to score and beat Indiana in last years big ten tourney was pretty fucking sweet and insane. But my heart still goes out to football moments.
kirchow
11-14-2008, 07:08 PM
anybody see turkey vs croatia in the euro 2008? fucking unbelievable
Nick is cool
11-14-2008, 07:37 PM
LOL- I'm just gonna guess but I don't think you watch football. Or if you do, you had me fooled.
As someone who watches and plays them both, IMO the situation he mentioned was more exciting than a last second field goal. It might even be more exciting watching the few possesions before the field goal than the actual field goal.
FlyinG ShoosteR
11-14-2008, 08:31 PM
I feel like a last second field goal is more of an anti-climax, really. A game winning touchdown is much more exciting.
Liberator13
11-15-2008, 03:32 AM
I feel like a last second field goal is more of an anti-climax, really. A game winning touchdown is much more exciting.
Concurred. It's just.. boring.
Fag Boy
11-15-2008, 05:35 AM
LOL- I'm just gonna guess but I don't think you watch football. Or if you do, you had me fooled.
um, note my avatar
*hint the color brown is presnet
their is no way you can try to tell me that the football games in october and march are more exciting then the college basketball games you see every saturday in february and march. I can remember when SeMo State hit a buzzer beater 3 years later, but off the top of my head, other then browns games and a superbowl, i cant remember when someone won a game with last second field goal.
on the other side of it, it comes down to the distance. When a team is at the 20 yard line and run 3 straight draw plays to get the ball in the middle of the field it is borring as fuck, because once those chains were reset the game was pretty much over with 3 downs left and the other team cant really do shit, barring a horrible shank or a rare block. Now if its a 55 yard field goal, and they have no timeouts and the clock is running with only a few seconds on the clock, that can be exciting, but thats not usually the case. Its almost always a 30-40 yard field goal, with the other team using a timeout trying to ice the kicker which never works, and the result is almost always the same.
SilentTherapist
11-25-2008, 07:33 PM
All I have to say is Joe Carter walk off homerun world series....yes
salo last night against the red wings...
that's why it's currently the #1 finish
jagger04
11-25-2008, 07:56 PM
Not it isn't you idiot. There is no "buzzer" in soccer. There is no "golden goal". There is an ambiguous amount of 'extra time' added to the end of each half, and even this extra time doesn't have a definitive end. Did the ref blow the whistle right after the goal or did Bayern have to take the ball in at midfield and then he blew the whistle? I'm not downplaying the significance of that comeback or how exciting it was, but it's good to see your inferiority complex is in full force. But it's not a 'finish'. It's an amazing comeback, one of the best ever, and a damn exciting end of the game. But fuck man, you're just wrong. Good to see you can engage in this discussion in a civil manner also....
you fucking idiot.
Why's that? Because you said so?
i'm not referring to this post, i'm just quoting it so you know who it was directed to.
anyway, using your logic, a game winning-buzzer beater doesn't qualify either, seeing as the clock is the one that ends the game, not the shot.
back to the topic, some of the exciting finishes i've seen recently is the 08 uefa euro cup. so many times turkey finished the game off in the last minute. i fell in love with them..
AsHopeDies
11-26-2008, 10:39 AM
anyway, using your logic, a game winning-buzzer beater doesn't qualify either, seeing as the clock is the one that ends the game, not the shot.
I agree, and I've said as much. But I think it's variable. I consider that more of a finish than in soccer, but like you said, not a true 'finish.'
kirchow
11-27-2008, 09:55 PM
I was fucking crying when I watched that game. Leading 1-0 until way late.
Shymega
11-27-2008, 11:33 PM
Shootouts can be an exciting finish as long as the game goes in a way like this.
YouTube - Rangers @ Canadiens 2/19/08
I feel like a last second field goal is more of an anti-climax, really. A game winning touchdown is much more exciting.
Couldn't have said it better myself. :boink:
KicktheBaby
11-27-2008, 11:50 PM
Hockey overtime goal, or sometimes a shootout. IMO nothing beats overtime in the playoffs especially if its like a game 6 or 7.
Here's a sick overtime goal by Jason Spezza on the Canadiens
YouTube - Sweet Spezza goal
jagger04
11-29-2008, 04:26 PM
oh shit. i was dying when the puck rode the line in the final seconds of last year's cup.
poopchow
11-29-2008, 07:35 PM
i think its the walk off. first of all, it has its own name, but the score isn't instant like in hockey where you are kinda like, "wtf just happened", and its not long and drawn out like a FG in football.
it can happen at any moment and as the ball is hit, you 'root' for the ball to go over the fence, or not be fielded.
2nd is close with basketball. the drama of the last few seconds is almost unmatched in sports
Mr Larkin
11-29-2008, 07:56 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oc9CisKS73g&feature=related
Bruins and Canadiens
Shymega
12-07-2008, 11:35 PM
Soccer doesn't have a natural finish, huh? All 3 of those guys at the end hugging are all on my fantasy team :banana dance:
Dailymotion - Everton v Aston villa, a video from thefootie. evert, villa@@AMEPARAM@@http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/x7nt2v@@AMEPARAM@@x7nt2v
SupraTwinTurbo
12-07-2008, 11:47 PM
Soccer doesn't have a natural finish, huh?
Dailymotion - Everton v Aston villa, a video from thefootie. evert, villa (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7nt2v_everton-v-aston-villa_sport)
Ahhhh u cock...
I was just thinking about this thread today when I was watching the match. If that match wasn't an exciting ending then I don't know what is. Fuck, unfortunately we ended up on the wrong side :wah:
Shymega
12-07-2008, 11:54 PM
Ahhhh u cock...
I was just thinking about this thread today when I was watching the match. If that match wasn't an exciting ending then I don't know what is. Fuck, unfortunately we ended up on the wrong side :wah:
I actually like Everton and was watching it live and was happy for them when they tied it. I honestly did a little jump out of my seat when Villa scored. Because I was shocked, and because Young scored. Bittersweet.
ehogepr
12-11-2008, 01:15 PM
Surprised there isn't an option for game winning goal in OT for the Stanely Cup win. Now thats exciting shit.
Trevi626
12-11-2008, 06:57 PM
basketball game winning shot.. because more often than not. it isnt luck
why? because basketball players are more in controll of making the shot than any other profesional athlete
not golf because of differing courses playing into effect
not hockey because of goalies differing skill and low percentage of scoring
not football because of field position and relying on others
not baseball because of batting orders
and not soccer because of the same reasons as hockey
a basketball player can single handedly dribble out the clock and create his own shot to win the game. and that one player can be pre determined
and his ability to make the shot is almost entirely due to his skill level. even the best defender in the nba has absolutely no effect on the best scorer
they will still get "their shot"...
like you see with jerry west, michael jordan, larry bird, reggie miller and now kobe bryant... it is always the best mid range to outside shooters that dominate these moments regularly. but with the other sports.. it can be anyone and everyone taking that shot or making that play. because they are as random as playing the lottery... with the nba. you know whos getting the ball
and you know whos taking the shot...the question is will he make it... or miss it
and when he does. its the most exciting play in sports
I must say, this was a truly epic explanation. After I finished reading, I felt like clapping aloud.
Hockey still owns though.
lidstroms goal last night was sick
vBulletin® v3.8.4, Copyright ©2000-2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.