Big Tobacco

[soundnthefury]

i just saw an ad for truth.com and it makes me wonder why tobacco is such an evil corporation and alcohol isn't. underage drinking is a huge problem as underage smoking, if not more so since i haven't heard of people dying in car crashes from being under the influence of nicotine. it just seems sort of hypocritical that they ban joe camel but allow budweiser to make commercials where drinking beer makes funny things happen and hot women want to have sex with you. and if people are easily fleeced by such ads.. then perhaps they deserve whatever happens to them...

[droogsteve]

The difference between the two is that alcohol only causes harm when abused. People who drink responsibly don't cause harm to themselves or others. As a matter of fact, there is mounting evidence that drinking in moderation actually can have some health benefits. Tobbaco is the only legal product that causes death when used for it's intended purpose.

[CaptHowdy]

well its not that one is more evil then the other its that most rich stupid people would rather their kids drink then smoke. lol not really. you dont see many dont drink cause it kills ads because "jack daniels" isnt going to pay for it the most youll see is "anheiser-bush" and "mikes" saying "drink responceply"
but...for those ads that you watch so often do you know who pays for them? a company that one "pespi" "nebisco" and about 10-15 more companies...the name of this huge corporation?
none other then the king of cigerettes. yep "Phillip Morris" maker of "Molboro" owener of "camel"and about half the fags(meaning cigerete you dipshits) out there. that company is responsable for the infamous"truth" ads.
why would a cig. company do those ads you may ask?
well its to keep kids from smoking and to prove that they are not the villain.
i think its working*sharp breath*

[CaptHowdy]

hahahaha droog what a way to obscure the facts
drinking red wine once a week is healthy
but drinking vodka never is

[CaptHowdy]

and if you want to know i quit drinking and statred smoking thus being why i know the stupid facts on this

[soundnthefury]

ooooh.. good point droog... i'm so used to seeing my teenage peers binge drink that i forgot that moderation is the key to that.

[droogsteve]

Originally posted by CaptHowdy
"Phillip Morris" maker of "Molboro" owener of "camel"and about half the fags(meaning cigerete you dipshits) out there. that company is responsable for the infamous"truth" ads.
why would a cig. company do those ads you may ask?
well its to keep kids from smoking and to prove that they are not the villain. The reason the tobacco companies fund those ads is because they were forced to. It part of the settlement in the huge lawsuit brought against them by many states looking to recover state funds used to treat people for smoking related illnesses. By the way captain, drinking vodka may not actually benefit your health, but if you drink it in moderation, it won't harm it either.

[BigMattTheHobo]

well i think they want to take one thing at a time, that would be a huge deal to try and fight tobacco and alcohol industries.

[droogsteve]

In case you guys haven't guessed, I don't smoke, but I do enjoy having a few drinks on the weekends. And every once in a while when I'm feeling stupid I'll have more than a few. :D

[shade]

Such is the truth whenever someone attaches "big" in front of an industry... out comes the hypocrisy. Big oil is evil... yet I drove here to say that or my computer is being powered by a powerplant that uses fossil fuels. Big HMOs are evil... yet we gladly partake in the benefit of their health services where the prices are kept down due to competition. Big business is evil... yet it employs millions. Big health industry and pharmecutical companies... those evil greedy bastards actually want to be paid money to research future miracle drugs, and that has to be funded by the previous miracle drugs they have already made, those bastards!!!!!!

The only thing with "big" in front of it that is genuinely bad is big government, that limits your own choices and freedoms.

Yeah I agree, why arent they going after alchohol as much as they do tobacco? Its definately more lethal... i guess its "ok" because its more of a social drug than tobacco.

[Dumbass]

Ok, this is a totally new question.
When did rotting your lungs, shortening your life span, starting an unhealthy addiction, making your heart beat faster and harder, therefore weakening your heart, opening the door for lung cancer, heart attacks, strokes, AND increasing your chances of ending up smoking pot, trying drugs such as cocaine, ever become worse than having drinks on the weekend that partially dehydrate you?

[Grimm Luv]

hey
i resemble that remark
o wait:D

[droogsteve]

Originally posted by shade
Yeah I agree, why arent they going after alchohol as much as they do tobacco? Its definately more lethal... i guess its "ok" because its more of a social drug than tobacco. You're joking, right?

[Bergs]

I hope so. Shade, that statement was retarded

[BigMattTheHobo]

why cant they just take on one thing at a time??? do any of you work for them, or have a part in planning for them??? well if no, then dont comment on why or why not they arnt going after different social problems.

[shade]

Umm... alchohol is addictive, causes cancer, and kills your liver (which kills you). So... as far as a single person goes its just as bad as tobacco. Then if you take others in to consideration, when is the last time you heard of someone smoking a cigarette and losing control and beating his wife? When is the last time someone lost control of their car and killed someone because they were smoking a cigarrette?

You're damn right I think alchohol is worse for society than tobacco. Do i think it should be outlawed? Just like any other non "hard" drug (the kind that can kill you in one use like cocaine, pcp, crack+), hell no. If someone wants to kill themselves faster for some pleasure, as long as you arent killing anyone else (and i dont think second hand smoke is a big deal), go for it.

[Dumbass]

Originally posted by shade
Umm... alchohol is addictive, causes cancer, and kills your liver (which kills you).
No. When did alcohol become addictive?

[CaptHowdy]

alchoholics. we even have rehab for them...A.A.

[Instigator]

hahaha being a member of these forums are like taking a retarded child under your wing.

[shade]

Yeah i know the feeling.
/wing instigator

[Dumbass]

Alcohol still isn't addictive. What substance in alcohol is addictive? There isn't one. There is one in cigarettes. That's the difference.

[Instigator]

if i were your protege i'd have a bleak future ahead of me.

[shade]

But... alchohol is addictive... its called alchoholism. And... it does kill your liver...

[CaptHowdy]

id answer you dumbass but i dont remember what the ingreadents are in most drinks

[Dumbass]

Originally posted by shade
But... alchohol is addictive... its called alchoholism. And... it does kill your liver...
But, but, but. What makes it addictive? There isn't anything that makes it addictive. Why can't you just answer the question? Alcoholism is about controlling your drinking, not ending an addiction. There's nothing about addiction anywhere. Alcoholic addiction doesn't exist.

[Instigator]

al·co·hol·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (lk-hô-lzm, -h-)
n.
A disorder characterized by the excessive consumption of and dependence on alcoholic beverages, leading to physical and psychological harm and impaired social and vocational functioning.

ad·dic·tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-dkshn)
n.

Compulsive physiological and psychological need for a habit-forming substance: a drug used in the treatment of heroin addiction.
An instance of this: a person with multiple chemical addictions.

The condition of being habitually or compulsively occupied with or or involved in something.
An instance of this: had an addiction for fast cars.

[Dumbass]

Originally posted by Instigator
al·co·hol·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (lk-hô-lzm, -h-)
n.
A disorder characterized by the excessive consumption of and dependence on alcoholic beverages, leading to physical and psychological harm and impaired social and vocational functioning.

ad·dic·tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-dkshn)
n.

Compulsive physiological and psychological need for a habit-forming substance: a drug used in the treatment of heroin addiction.
An instance of this: a person with multiple chemical addictions.

The condition of being habitually or compulsively occupied with or or involved in something.
An instance of this: had an addiction for fast cars.
So, why didn't the source just call alcoholism an addiction? It didn't because once again, there isn't such a thing as an addiction to alcohol. You're stretching, Instigator. I'll say that yes, alcoholism is CLOSE to an addiction, but no it's not the same thing.

[Instigator]

I'm not taking sides dumbass, i was just putting that out there.

[Dumbass]

Sorry, I thought you took a side there.

[CaptHowdy]

i dont think you can take sides on this.

[soundnthefury]

Those suffering from alcohol dependence drink to appease an uncontrolled craving for alcohol or to avoid experiencing the unpleasant symptoms of withdrawal.

That's from an Encarta article about alcohol.. it certainly sounds like any other addiction. and don't get me wrong... i love tobacco and i do drink.. it's not even about that.. it just seems weird that some vices are more socially acceptable than others.

[droogsteve]

People can become dependent on alcohol. That doesn't mean it's an addictive drug. If you know anything about addiction, you know that certain people can become dependent on substances that are completely harmless to the vast majority of people. I personally have a friend who became dependent on nose drops. Think I'm joking? Next time you're in the a drugstore check out the back of a box. It warns that certain people can become dependent. I also had a relative who became dependent on a certain kind of laxative. I found this out at a family Christmas gathering when I was the one who got stuck driving her all around NYC at midnight looking for an open store that sold it. The vast majority of people CAN drink socially without becoming addicted. Not so with tobacco. The nicotine in tobacco is highly addictive, on par with heroin or cocaine. There are a miniscule number of people who can smoke socially without becoming addicted. Being that you're an educated person, Shade, I know you're fully aware of all these facts. The only reason you're even making an argument is because as a hard-core Republican you feel as if you have to defend big tobacco. But claiming alcohol is an addictive drug like tobacco just makes you look stupid.

[shade]

Dumbass, ALCHOHOL is the chemical. The chemical ALCHOHOL (aka, ethanol) is an addictive substance for many people. Some people are predisposed to addiction, and others arent. I for one am not susceptible to addiction, hardly at all in fact. Ive tried alchohol, cigarettes, and lots of other.. stuff. I never had any trouble stopping, and I havent used any of the above for over 4 years now. Fewer people are predisposed to be addicted to alchohol than tobacco, but for those who are, it is every bit as dangerous, if not more.

[CaptHowdy]

Originally posted by shade
Dumbass, ALCHOHOL is the chemical. The chemical ALCHOHOL (aka, ethanol) is an addictive substance for many people. Some people are predisposed to addiction, and others arent. I for one am not susceptible to addiction, hardly at all in fact. Ive tried alchohol, cigarettes, and lots of other.. stuff. I never had any trouble stopping, and I havent used any of the above for over 4 years now. Fewer people are predisposed to be addicted to alchohol than tobacco, but for those who are, it is every bit as dangerous, if not more.

ethanol...thats what it was thank you.
im living proof of predisposision to addiction as my father, his father, and his father were all alchoholics. i to was an alchy for about 2 years and then i tried cigarettes(and i am in that percentage) and cant quit. and if you think i havent tried your wrong. patch, gum, cold turkey(god dont ever do that). but to oppose this at the same time. people can get addictid to anything. really anything because its half your body craving and half psycosymatic. ever play a game and not be able to stop? what about coffee can you really wake up without it?

[Dumbass]

Definition of ethanol
Main Entry: eth a nol

Prounciation: 'e-th&-"nOl, British also 'E-

Function: noun

Date: 1900

: a colorless volatile flammable liquid C2H5OH that is the INTOXICATING AGENT in liquors and is also used as a solvent – called also ethyl alcohol, grain alcohol

from the Webster Dictionary

Ethanol makes you INTOXICATED, not addicted.

[Bergs]

Umm... alchohol is addictive, causes cancer, and kills your liver (which kills you).

It isnt more lethal than tobacco because one can of beer does not hurt you. Your liver processes it no problem and you are 100% healthy. Each cigarette on the other hand causes some tarring of you lung which does not heal for long periods of time (although it eventually can heal) and will aide in killing you.

Of course too much alcohol is a bad thing. Too much of 1000s of things that are legal can cause cancer but alchohol does not kill you with one drink. Meanwhile every cig you smoke takes 2 minutes off your life.

[shade]

It isnt more lethal than tobacco because one can of beer does not hurt you.
But when you take in to account drunk driving deaths, it ends up really being as lethal.

[Bergs]

Except that is not the fault of just the alcohol. I have gotten absolutely wasted at parties and known better than to drive. It takes alcohol plus a stupid fucking person to cause drunk driving deaths. A really smart person that smokes is still going to get hurt

[shade]

Sure... but you have to take it in to account. Smoking a cigarrette is directly more harmful on a person than drinking a beer. Second hand cigarrette smoke damage is insignificant. Drunk driving accidents (or, second hand drinking if you will) is far far more significant. So they kinda even out.

[Bergs]

I see what your saying but they still dont even out because

Deaths from smoking itself are far greater than deaths from drinking itself

Deaths from drunk driving are greater than deaths from second hand smoke but drunk driving can be prevented by friends and bar staff. I have had my keys taken by a friend before. I wasnt going to drive anyway because I was spending the night at his house but he still took them.

And the deaths from lung cancer, emphysema, smoking related pneumonia, and heart disease blow away the difference in deaths from DWI and second hand smoke.

Bottom line is more people die from smoking per year than drinking. End of story

[shade]

Yes, but, alchohol is still an addictive and deadly substance.

[Dumbass]

I still won't say that alcohol is addictive, but yes it is a deadly substance, when used in excess. I really wish that everyone would know how to use alcohol in moderation, the deaths and beatings of wives would be SO much lower. Again, another example of how basic education on a topic can make life better. If people would just admit that they drink too much, there's a greater chance that they would at least cut back on how much they drink.
I also think it's a responsibility issue. There are far too many cases of drunk driving and deaths because of it. Here in Cincinnati, there was a kid, Matt Ponner, he was 16 years old and going to LaSalle High School, about 5 minutes from where I live. He went driving, no seat belt, 65 mph in a 35 zone. Crashed, thrown from the car, killed. My cousin was the cop on watch that first showed up at the scene. What's not released about the wreck is that he was drunk. Stupid, stupid shit. And especially more so for a 16 year old.

[CaptHowdy]

Originally posted by Bergs
I see what your saying but they still dont even out because

Deaths from smoking itself are far greater than deaths from drinking itself

Deaths from drunk driving are greater than deaths from second hand smoke but drunk driving can be prevented by friends and bar staff. I have had my keys taken by a friend before. I wasnt going to drive anyway because I was spending the night at his house but he still took them.

And the deaths from lung cancer, emphysema, smoking related pneumonia, and heart disease blow away the difference in deaths from DWI and second hand smoke.

Bottom line is more people die from smoking per year than drinking. End of story

how long does it take to put tar in your lungs to do any damage? about 2 years and this if you smoke a pack a day.
now drink 20 beers a day for two years and youll be dead. seeing the difference yet?

smokers know the damage it does and accept it. not all drinkers do

[CaptHowdy]

i hate this peice of shit computer.

smokers know the damage it does and accept it. not all drinkers do. if you were to drink one beer every time someone light a smoke youd be liverless in about 3 weeks. smokers smoke 24/7 thats why the numbers are so high. drinkers dont drink nearly this amount. and the differences in birth defects are worse for drinkers to. im not boasting mind you just stating a few things. plus smoking doesnt impare your judgement just kills your lungs and your sence of smell.

[droogsteve]

Originally posted by CaptHowdy
how long does it take to put tar in your lungs to do any damage? about 2 years and this if you smoke a pack a day.
now drink 20 beers a day for two years and youll be dead. seeing the difference yet?

smokers know the damage it does and accept it. not all drinkers do Almost all smokers go through a pack a day. It is extremely rare for someone to drink 20 beers a day. That's not a social drinker, it's an alcoholic. Seeing the difference yet? And by the way, my father has been drinking a case of beer (24 beers) everyday for 30 years and seems fine. I'm sure he has some liver damage by now, but that's far from being dead in 2 years. And as far as smokers knowing and accepting the damage, it's just not true. Most smokers start when they're around 14 years old. A kid that age doesn't understand the danger at all. They all think they're going to live forever. By the time they're old enough to know better, they're already addicted.

[CaptHowdy]

key word being "seems" here droog i think he needs some help.
" And as far as smokers knowing and accepting the damage, it's just not true" boss even without the truth.com ads you still see the surgeon generals warning everytime you look at a pack of smokes. 14 yearolds dont smoke like we did(and most are more intelligent then we were). the first time kids choke these days most say the same thing"fuck this". i know two kids(15 and 16) who smoke. thats good pretty good odds(still to many) as i know half the school.
but about half of them drink. im more scared of them drinking then smoking because like you said they think they're going to live forever. i do think that in about ten years(if the prices keep going up) that smoking amoungst teens will damn near stop. but i dont see this with drinking. but hey i could be wrong.

oh hey are we talking about kids smoking and drinking now or do we need a new thread?

[CaptHowdy]

" but i dont see this with drinking. but hey i could be wrong."
fuck that i hope and pray im wrong. i hope that in ten years our kids are smarter then that. i know they will try it(it being smoking, drugs, drinking) but i hope they are smarter then we were.

[injun'jo]

Capt' - They're not any smarter then we were...they do the same crazy shit we did, jest seem to get caught more often....


I just started smoking cigarettes...and already I know it will be hard to quit.....

[greeno144]

If you wanna be free, stay drug free!

[CaptHowdy]

green if you want to be free kill yourself.

its not hard to stop if you just started. you can if you want to. you probly just love the *choke choke* relaxin*hack hack*g .