Iraq - in review.

[shade]

I would like someone who was originally against the war to come out and say that they wish Saddam was still in power. If no one is willing to do so, I would like Instigator, Satin, (matt? i cant remember exactly where you stood), and anyone else who was against it to publically state that they were wrong, as liberals are usually (you can leave off the liberals are usually part :p).

Also instigator, while perusing through your old posts on the topic, you said:
1. Powell relies on FORGED documents to link Saddam to terror.
Well since then it has now been found out that apparently that intelligence was actually given to us by *drum roll please* FRANCE.

[BigMattTheHobo]

i dont care who it came from, it was still wrong.

and in review i think from a human rights stand point, the situation is better, for now. who knows what is going to happen in a few years...the next saddam could be rising up right now. as far as WMDs go, Where are they??? i think its funny how inspectors got "weeks not months" but now this admin. wants time to search iraq for WMD. thats bullshit, we could of saved some lives if they would of just told the truth instead of pushing their own zealous campaign to rid iraq of "WMDs" and getting rid of saddam and setting up future chaos in a chaotic country.

[BigMattTheHobo]

the arrogance of conservatives never seems to go away. i think its funny how they can always declare when the opposite side of the argument is wrong and when they say the other side has to "publically state that they were wrong".

[Instigator]

Originally posted by BigMattTheHobo
the arrogance of conservatives never seems to go away. i think its funny how they can always declare when the opposite side of the argument is wrong and when they say the other side has to "publically state that they were wrong".

Whilst they never admit their own miscalculations or mistakes. When did they ever apologize for Vietnam, for example, the biggest military fiasco of the past 50 years?

[BigMattTheHobo]

Originally posted by Instigator
Whilst they never admit their own miscalculations or mistakes. When did they ever apologize for Vietnam, for example, the biggest military fiasco of the past 50 years?

i dont think they have, but they dont need to, they were only fighting communism......

[Instigator]

Originally posted by BigMattTheHobo
i dont think they have, but they dont need to, they were only fighting communism......

a huge amount of the people killed in vietnam were civilians, people who had NO PART WHATSOEVER in the rise of communism in their country. They were not fighting communism, they were mostly fighting innocent people who were only fighting because their village was being attacked.

[droogsteve]

Originally posted by Instigator
Whilst they never admit their own miscalculations or mistakes. When did they ever apologize for Vietnam, for example, the biggest military fiasco of the past 50 years? Vietnam was a fiasco, I agree. Over 50,000 Americans and countless Vietnamese died for nothing. But just to set the record straight, US involvment in Vietnam began under Kennedy and wildly escalated under Johnson. Both Democrats. Who exactly do you think should apologize?

[shade]

and in review i think from a human rights stand point, the situation is better, for now.
I commend you for this... you are a bigger man than most.

i dont care who it came from, it was still wrong.
Well.. if it was from Uganda or something I would agree with you. But because France was so vehemanently(sp?) against war with Iraq, one must wonder if this intel was planted as a trap for the Bush or Blair admins.

as far as WMDs go, Where are they???
Well, so far we have found two mobile weapons labs and detailed info on Iraq's nuclear program. I would definately like us to find the rest of the WMD, as I stated before the war, we need to find it. Although one must remember, 1000-5000 liters of anthrax can be transported in a few normal trucks... like a ford F150, not 18 wheelers. Iraq is the size of texas with caves and bunkers. If we find the WMD, it will likely be from recovered intel from prisoners or files, not from a marine stumbling on it. Why did they have thousands of chemical suits? Why have we found documentation of Iraqi military communiques mentioning "evacuating" anthrax and botulinum?

i think its funny how inspectors got "weeks not months" but now this admin. wants time to search iraq for WMD.
That was after... years. Including recent months before the war. The weeks not months was a warning to Iraq telling them that we were serious, then we delivered. Try to not take stuff out of context.

the next saddam could be rising up right now
Wont happen, we wont let it.

the arrogance of conservatives never seems to go away.
Well... it comes with being right /shrug.

When did they ever apologize for Vietnam, for example, the biggest military fiasco of the past 50 years?
Yeah... I dont see you complaining about Korea. Viet Nam was the EXACT same political situation as Korea. The only difference is that we were militarily and politically unwilling to finish the war.

a huge amount of the people killed in vietnam were civilians, people who had NO PART WHATSOEVER in the rise of communism in their country. They were not fighting communism, they were mostly fighting innocent people who were only fighting because their village was being attacked
Civilian casulties have been dramatically exaggerated in such movies as full metal jacket... californian.

Who exactly do you think should apologize?
I think Instigator's liberal revisionist history teaching teachers should apologize for failing him, again.

[Instigator]

Originally posted by shade

I think Instigator's liberal revisionist history teaching teachers should apologize for failing him, again.

I went to a conservative Catholic high school. My US History, World Civilizations, and Race & Gender teachers were all republicans. I graduated with a 3.8 GPA. Go milk the cows, you fucking hick.

[shade]

Oh so I guess you lied earlier when you said you went to both public and private schools, thanks. Btw, I got a 4.0 gpa, and currently have a 3.5 (on a 4 point scale, in college, with 75 hours completed). You can go milk a cow, guy who has never been to texas. I dont even know where I could find a cow... or a horse for that matter. Guess what, Austin and the DFW area are the pinnacles of the high tech industry in America.

[Instigator]

Originally posted by shade
Oh so I guess you lied earlier when you said you went to both public and private schools, thanks.
Oh, excuse me jeb, I went to a public school freshman year.

Originally posted by shade
pinnacles of the high tech industry in America.

Sorry shade, that'd be the Bay Area and Silicon Valley.

[shade]

Yeah, in the 80s.

[soundnthefury]

anyone sane will admit that noone wants a a dictator like Saddam in power... and the people probably will be better off after a time of instabilty... but as far as intentions and consequences of this go... i'm not quite sold yet on the entire package... and i hope a whole new war debate doesn't begin with the recent worries abot iran's nuclear program...

[Viet Era Marine]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
a huge amount of the people killed in vietnam were civilians, people who had NO PART WHATSOEVER in the rise of communism in their country. They were not fighting communism, they were mostly fighting innocent people who were only fighting because their village was being attacked
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Inst: STFU: You weren't there, I WAS!! Innocent people my ass!

Oh, BTW, go ahead and take a guess who got us out of the war??

Does NIXON ring a bell?
You know, "Nasty, Conservative, Republican, Tricky Dick"!

Oh one more BTW: All the Vietnam Docu-Dramas you kiddies have watched.... they are BS/BS/BS/BS! Get the point?

To everyone else on the board: My apology, listening to that type of crap from some 13-23 year old, just makes me madder than hell.

[droogsteve]

Originally posted by Instigator
Whilst they never admit their own miscalculations or mistakes. When did they ever apologize for Vietnam, for example, the biggest military fiasco of the past 50 years? You obviously chose to ignore my earlier post, Inst. Please answer it. I'm not a completely biased hard-core conservative like Shade, but I have to call you on this one. Since Democrats Kennedy and Johnson were responsible for America's policy in Vietnam, why do you feel that conservatives owe the nation an apology for it? And Shade, how the hell did YOU of all people let this fact slip by you?

[Viet Era Marine]

Damn good question Droog!! :D

And the answer is......(Drum roll please)...........

The silence is deafening, no??

[BigMattTheHobo]

Originally posted by Instigator
a huge amount of the people killed in vietnam were civilians, people who had NO PART WHATSOEVER in the rise of communism in their country. They were not fighting communism, they were mostly fighting innocent people who were only fighting because their village was being attacked.

i know i was being sarcastic.....

[BigMattTheHobo]

Originally posted by droogsteve
Vietnam was a fiasco, I agree. Over 50,000 Americans and countless Vietnamese died for nothing. But just to set the record straight, US involvment in Vietnam began under Kennedy and wildly escalated under Johnson. Both Democrats. Who exactly do you think should apologize?

damn sure they should... i dont care anything about political parties, both parties can make stupid choices. in fact, i think both parties are evil, i just tend to agree with dems more then republicans.

and whats with the grade battle?? does it take a 3.5 gpa or better to be respected?? im am going out on a longshot here and assuming you people respect me, and let me tell you my gpa for all of high school so far is around 2.6-2.8.

im going to believe viet era marine over anyone else when it comes to the war, but let me just say that innocent people were killed needlessly (sp?):

link (http://www.acadianhouse.com/hughthompson/story.htm)

more links available.....

[shade]

not a completely biased hard-core conservative like Shade
Im not biased... I take every issue individually. There just tends to be a strong tendancy of me agreeing with republicans. But for example, I currently agree with the plan to grant amnesty to all current illegal immigrants (from mexico only) then sealing off the borders from future illegal immigration. Guess who is currently proposing this plan? A democrat. It just makes good sense to give them the full benefits of citizenship because they are productive members of society (vast majority at least).

And Shade, how the hell did YOU of all people let this fact slip by you?
I didnt... Viet Nam was part of the cold war though, which is often declared a republican victory. Yes, 2/3s of the administrations in power during that time were democrats, but its not like the republicans were strongly against the war. The only failure of Viet Nam was us not being able to finish it (Viets generation that is) with an acceptable outcome.

and whats with the grade battle??
He brought it up... its not like gpa comparisons in different schools matter. For all we know he was on a 5 or 6 point scale and took easier classes. :rolleyes:

[soundnthefury]

since when does unproven boasting and convo about your gpa make your argument any more legit? let's try to keep things from getting too personal or ego-fueled.

[shade]

It doesnt sound... thats why I showed mine. All schools are different... instigator pointing out his gpa makes no difference.. just like me pointing out mine makes no difference. That was kinda the point.

[soundnthefury]

oops.. my mistake, once again.

[Instigator]

Originally posted by droogsteve
Since Democrats Kennedy and Johnson were responsible for America's policy in Vietnam, why do you feel that conservatives owe the nation an apology for it?

Droog, I don't feel as if an apology is due from the conservatives, but I definitely don't feel as if an apology is due from anybody who opposed the war in Iraq, nor should any anti-war people recant.

Vietnam Era Marine...you spew such garbage that until you have something of substance to say, I'm not going to respond to your idiotic posts. Were you to bring up an interesting point or send the thread in a new direction or stimulate the discussion in any way whatsoever I would respond, but at this point that is far below necessary.

[Bergs]

Droog, I don't feel as if an apology is due from the conservatives,

Whilst they never admit their own miscalculations or mistakes. When did they ever apologize for Vietnam, for example, the biggest military fiasco of the past 50 years?

You dont? I am so sick of your backtracking every five seconds. Either stand by your posts or shut the fuck up.

Vietnam Era Marine...you spew such garbage that until you have something of substance to say, I'm not going to respond to your idiotic posts.

He is only pointing out your complete ignorance and stereotypical liberal opinion of vietnam. "Oh, the american soldier is an evil baby killer" bullshit inst. Where do get your souces? too much micheal moore?

[Instigator]

Originally posted by Bergs
You dont? I am so sick of your backtracking every five seconds.

wow bergs, i was COMPARING. I see that you havent acquired your abstract thinking skills yet.

[Bergs]

You werent "comparing" anything.

Lets see a run down of your posts.

Matt said....
the arrogance of conservatives never seems to go away. i think its funny how they can always declare when the opposite side of the argument is wrong and when they say the other side has to "publically state that they were wrong".

You said....
Whilst they never admit their own miscalculations or mistakes. When did they ever apologize for Vietnam, for example, the biggest military fiasco of the past 50 years?
(you even quoted matts above statement in the post containing your above statement)

droog said....
Since Democrats Kennedy and Johnson were responsible for America's policy in Vietnam, why do you feel that conservatives owe the nation an apology for it?

You responded.....
Droog, I don't feel as if an apology is due from the conservatives,

Let me say it again, STAND BY YOUR POSTS OR SHUT THE FUCK UP

My abstract thinking skills are just fine

[Instigator]

I was not saying that they should apologize, I WAS SAYING HOW HYPOCRITICAL IT IS TO TELL LIBERALS TO APOLOGIZE WHILE THEY NEVER APOLOGIZE FOR THEIR OWN TRANSGRESSIONS.

KAPISH?

[Instigator]

Saddam is a man of honour, he will restore order into the country.

It's ironic how similar Rikimaru and Shade are in their blind-sheep attitudes toward their leaders.

[shade]

but I definitely don't feel as if an apology is due from anybody who opposed the war in Iraq
I think you should apologize to the mothers searching through rotting corpses in mass graves trying to find their children, which may not have died had we gone sooner.

Vietnam Era Marine...you spew such garbage that until you have something of substance to say, I'm not going to respond to your idiotic posts. Were you to bring up an interesting point or send the thread in a new direction or stimulate the discussion in any way whatsoever I would respond, but at this point that is far below necessary.
You need to give some fucking respect to viet era marine you damn pissant.

Where do get your souces? too much micheal moore?
Probably from too many movies.

wow bergs, i was COMPARING. I see that you havent acquired your abstract thinking skills yet.
And you were saying that conservatives need to apologize about vietnam. Unless you meant that just like today in Iraq, democrats havent apologized for vietnams failure?

I was not saying that they should apologize, I WAS SAYING HOW HYPOCRITICAL IT IS TO TELL LIBERALS TO APOLOGIZE WHILE THEY NEVER APOLOGIZE FOR THEIR OWN TRANSGRESSIONS.
Haha, youre an idiot, as anyone will see with bergs' above post. Owned..

What's there to review about Iraq? Its not over, not yet at least.
Wow riki you are actually right. However I was primarily refering to the fact that saddam is no longer in power.

The Fedayeen will drive the Americans out. There are already countless casualties, you're just not hearing about them, typical media censorship.
Oh doh, I knew it wouldnt last. Riki then goes off to spew bullshit... hey, i bet we arent in Baghdad yet either... all that damn zionist propaganda.

It's ironic how similar Rikimaru and Shade are in their blind-sheep attitudes toward their leaders.
Yeah, keep worshipping michael moore there buddy.

[Instigator]

Originally posted by shade

Yeah, keep worshipping michael moore there buddy.
worshipping michael moore? I don't think he's saving Iraqis! I don't think he's the leader the united states needs! I don't even think his tactics are 100% honest, he propagandizes, he twists facts...just because I happen to agree with him doesn't mean I worship him.
I haven't mentioned yet that he's not our president, nor did he lead us into war, as George and Saddam did.

[shade]

Instigator says:
his film was better than any other documentary made this year
he should have won best picture...
well, me being a supporter of michael moore, i'm very glad you've convinced yourself of that.
ANYways, Michael Moore stands up for lots of things, including freedom of speech, freedom of the press, the defense of human rights, freedom of choice, pacifism, feminism, gun control, integration...
the vast majority of the news organizations never cast a bad light on bowling for columbine.

And that was just from one thread...

[Instigator]

those things are all true. A couple of them are very out of context (one in particular was from an argument over whether he cares more about people's rights than your conservative heroes do), but you and riki's butt-buddyness with your leaders is uncanny in similarity.

[shade]

Its not out of context and here is a fucking link so people can see for themselves fountain:
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2472

[Viet Era Marine]

Matt, Shade & Bergs: Thanks folks!! ;)

Again I do apologise for going off like that, it just ticks me off to read that kind of regurgitated horsepoop from schoolboys like Inst.


Here's my promise:
You will always hear only my opinion, based on 52 years of life experience. When I don't know something, you'll hear that too.
I will never makeup BS to fit the moment. My tag line says it all.

Thanks for your time.

[droogsteve]

Originally posted by Rikimaru
I spent the weekend meeting with tribal leaders, they are going to conduct organized strikes against the Americans. Holy shit, Rik. You get funnier every time you post. Did you fly to Iraq for the weekend or did they fly to Canada just to meet with you? And how do you explain the fact you were spotted at Chuck-E-Cheese last weekend bullying eight year olds who were trying to play the Desert Warrior video game??

[shade]

Sounds like ebaum needs to give riki's IP to the CIA. Then we can have a seal team abduct him from Canada and interrogate his ass.... oh and detain him indefinately as an enemy combatant. :cool:

[BigMattTheHobo]

better watch out riki, new programs are being started to have "internet watch dogs" watch for terrorist related activity, dont be suprised if ya get a heavy knock on your door soon.....

[Instigator]

Originally posted by shade
Sounds like ebaum needs to give riki's IP to the CIA. Then we can have a seal team abduct him from Canada and interrogate his ass.... oh and detain him indefinately as an enemy combatant. :cool:

which we could easily do with ashcroft in power. I know you were joking, but it's dangerously close to plausible.

[droogsteve]

Liar...

[Instigator]

wow riki what an idiotic post. if you keep doing shit like that, I think there are about 10 people, including myself, who could make an effort to kick you off this forum.

[BigMattTheHobo]

Originally posted by Instigator
wow riki what an idiotic post. if you keep doing shit like that, I think there are about 10 people, including myself, who could make an effort to kick you off this forum.

no, let him stay, lets prove to him that the America he hates is tolerant and will respect the rights of other people, even complete morons....

[shade]

I know you were joking, but it's dangerously close to plausible.
Eh... actually not really. He is so fucking annoying I honestly would like him to be arrested even if it just temprorarily.

[Instigator]

That's terrible that you would have anyone arrested for disagreeing with your dogmatic jingoism, even if hes a jingoist himself. That speaks volumes about your disregard for the first amendment.

[Viet Era Marine]

Riki's Mom:

"Riki Dear; there are some people here that need to speak with you, could you unlock your bedroom door please." :D

Ebaum Forum:

Bye Riki, don't forget your sunscreen. It gets really hot down in Cuba. ;)

[shade]

That's terrible that you would have anyone arrested for disagreeing with your dogmatic jingoism, even if hes a jingoist himself. That speaks volumes about your disregard for the first amendment.
No, I would have him arrested for fucking conspiring with terrorists you word twisting ignorant faggot.

[Viet Era Marine]

Can we get a BIG amen to that?? :D


Let's see: 1st Amendment.......Oh, I remember!

That's the one states I can say any damn thing I want
except.....(Drum Roll Please)........During a time of WAR.

Now if you don't believe we are in a war, I'd like to point you to the families that got their loved ones back from the Towers in baggies. I'm betting they consider it a war.

That's just the way I see it.

[Instigator]

Originally posted by Viet Era Marine

Let's see: 1st Amendment.......Oh, I remember!

He's allowed to say whatever he wants, idiot. But on a little thing called the bill of rights, it states that due process should be used in each detainment. What shade wants is not due process, which would violate the 5th amendment, our 9th most important right.

And calling someone a fag as a rebuttal..wow what stinging, witty social commentary...:rolleyes:

[Bergs]

Instigator forgets the little detail that so often slips the minds of liberals.

THE CONSTITUTION APPLIES TO AMERICAN CITIZENS ONLY!!!!

If rummy wanted to tie riki up in a sack and float him around guantanamo bay he could, because RIKI HAS NO CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS

[Instigator]

Where are Riki and his computer? The odds are 5 to 1 that he's right in the USA with us...just trying to get a rise out of everybody.

And you're right, if we disregard human rights and decency we can do whatever we want to people who aren't American citizens. Those of us with morals don't.

[Bergs]

MORALS??? MORALS????

Imprisoning rat bastard terrorists for long periods of time without giving half a shit about them is morally wrong but aborting an innocent child is ok?

Awesome morals!

[droogsteve]

PLEASE don't drag abortion into yet another thread. And by the way, I agree with Bergs on this one. We are at war and terror suspects are potential enemy combatants. It's insane to release any enemies you have custody of before the threat to you is over.

[shade]

it states that due process should be used in each detainment. What shade wants is not due process, which would violate the 5th amendment, our 9th most important right.
Is Riki an american? Nope.

The odds are 5 to 1 that he's right in the USA with us...just trying to get a rise out of everybody.
If he is, and he did conspire with terrorists, then he is committing treason and can be declared an enemy combatant.

[Bergs]

Sorry droog I am not trying to start another abortion debate because it really has gotten old.

But I am sick and tired of liberals thinking that they have the moral high ground over conservatives. That is not only close minded, it is a retarded arguement too

[Viet Era Marine]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
it states that due process should be used in each detainment. What shade wants is not due process, which would violate the 5th amendment, our 9th most important right.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gee, due process, I'm betting all those folks on the planes had that. Right?

Tell you what Inst, look up the process for Enemy Combatants.

Perhaps next time, they will bring the Al Qeda circus to your town. What do you want to bet you'er the first in line screaming for someone to shoot the S.O.B's.

[Bergs]

Something else I just noticed about Instigator's post

which would violate the 5th amendment, our 9th most important right.

He said OUR 9th most important right.

The faggot has yet again made himself look stupid by arguing against his own post.

Thanks for backing us Inst. The Constitution DOES NOT apply to Non-Americans

[shade]

But I am sick and tired of liberals thinking that they have the moral high ground over conservatives. That is not only close minded, it is a retarded arguement too
Although I would point out that Droog is not a liberal. From my observation, hes a conservative leaning independant who only really differs from most republicans on abortin.

[Bergs]

I didnt say droog was. I was refering to Instigators claim that he and other liberals that oppose the detaining of enemy combatants for long periods of time immoral, are morally superior to conservatives. I know droog is not a liberal because I like him, and I hate liberals :D

[shade]

Hahah! Ditto.

[BigMattTheHobo]

damn all you people have gone down to a level of name calling and harrasment ony comparable to middle school. this is pretty dissapointing, im not taking sides here or calling anyone out, but this is pretty sad.

[Bergs]

Maybe you should tell that to your "hero"

He makes himself look stupid and when people point it out he calls us "idiot bastards" without in any way, shape, or form proving that he is not stupid

[BigMattTheHobo]

Originally posted by Bergs
Maybe you should tell that to your "hero"

He makes himself look stupid and when people point it out he calls us "idiot bastards" without in any way, shape, or form proving that he is not stupid

no im telling you all, and when will you get it right, he is my God, NOT my hero...

PRAISE BE TO INSTIGATOR!!

anyways bergs, you do the most name calling out of anyone here, and the most malicous (sp?)

[Bergs]

Me? The most malicious?

Go right ahead, you egotistical fucking asshole.

Bergs, you fucking idiot bastard.

Those were two from your "god".

[BigMattTheHobo]

Originally posted by Bergs
Me? The most malicious?





Those were two from your "god".

i never said he was innocent.

[droogsteve]

Originally posted by shade
Although I would point out that Droog is not a liberal. From my observation, hes a conservative leaning independant who only really differs from most republicans on abortin. I'm not sure that's the ONLY thing I disagree with, but conservative leaning independent sounds pretty accurate.:)