John Kerry Is God !!!

[gigatonblast]

Yesterday John Edwards said, "When John Kerry is the president people like Christopher Reeve are going to walk again!" implying that Christopher Reeve could have been helped by embryonic stem cell research.

Embryonic stem cell research has not helped one single person or contributed to the relief of any ailment; to imply such a thing misses the point of how a civilized culture should respond to a human person who appears permanently crippled.

All who have seen Christopher Reeve battle his injuries could see he was an invaluable man filled with hope for his own future. When he would hear of someone like him that suffers from a similar malady, he would call them and cultivate hope for an enjoyable life despite being so limited.

To sacrifice a human embryo for the sake of some medicinal profit is to insult us all, especially Christopher Reeve, who, like a human embryo, has limitations on their existence. Both are unique and irreplaceable and should never be purposefully destroyed for the profit of others.

[krackel]

To sacrifice a human embryo for the sake of some medicinal profit is to insult us all, especially Christopher Reeve, who, like a human embryo, has limitations on their existence. Both are unique and irreplaceable and should never be purposefully destroyed for the profit of others.You are not good at making points, Why do we need more embryos? To add more children to this world? is there not enough already? Doesnt it make more sense to try and repair a man who has been alive for a long time and has more to offer than another new child into this overpopulated world? Reeve was not old, and the rehabilitation he was going through actually did show results, so maybe you should re-think your right wing neo-con views.

[gigatonblast]

You did'nt quote the first paragraph....Wonder why ?

[krackel]

Yesterday John Edwards said, "When John Kerry is the president people like Christopher Reeve are going to walk again!" implying that Christopher Reeve could have been helped by embryonic stem cell research. does this paragraph contain anything pertinent to the discussion? Stem cell research isnt a dead end if thats what youre implying, thats just false.

[krazykomrade]

Yesterday John Edwards said, "When John Kerry is the president people like Christopher Reeve are going to walk again!" implying that Christopher Reeve could have been helped by embryonic stem cell research.
He probably could have been helped. Research shows that stem cell research may be able to regrow tissue, such as spinal tissue and the such.

Embryonic stem cell research has not helped one single person or contributed to the relief of any ailment; to imply such a thing misses the point of how a civilized culture should respond to a human person who appears permanently crippled.
Isn't that because Bush put a 3 year ban on stem cell research? How the hell is stem cell research supposed to have helped people when its been banned? And you are implying that a civilized culture should not help a paralyzed person regain control of their body despite the fact that technology may be available, all because you think that stem cell research is "killing for profit?"

Hopefully stem cell research may be able to help your condition someday.

[droogsteve]

Yesterday John Edwards said, "When John Kerry is the president people like Christopher Reeve are going to walk again!" implying that Christopher Reeve could have been helped by embryonic stem cell research.

Embryonic stem cell research has not helped one single person or contributed to the relief of any ailment; to imply such a thing misses the point of how a civilized culture should respond to a human person who appears permanently crippled.

All who have seen Christopher Reeve battle his injuries could see he was an invaluable man filled with hope for his own future. When he would hear of someone like him that suffers from a similar malady, he would call them and cultivate hope for an enjoyable life despite being so limited.

To sacrifice a human embryo for the sake of some medicinal profit is to insult us all, especially Christopher Reeve, who, like a human embryo, has limitations on their existence. Both are unique and irreplaceable and should never be purposefully destroyed for the profit of others.


Are you retarded? Christopher Reeve was the biggest supporter of stem cell research on the planet. He repeatedly lobbied Congress and the Senate to remove all restrictions on embryonic stem cell research. He personally blamed the Bush administration for holding up research:


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/showbiz/2263289.stm


How the hell is supporting a cause that he fervently believed in an insult to him.

[Maverick]

Why do we need more embryos? To add more children to this world? is there not enough already?
I am glad such important decisions are not left up to you. If I want to bring a child into this world it is not your place to tell me if I can do so or if it makes sense for me to do it in the first place.

As far as the creating embryos for research purposes, I am against it for the same reason I am against cloning. However, if there are legitimate ways of collecting stem cells from fetuses that did not involve creating them strictly for research then I am all for it.

[krackel]

I am glad such important decisions are not left up to you. If I want to bring a child into this world it is not your place to tell me if I can do so or if it makes sense for me to do it in the first place.

hey smart guy, did you think that maybe they dont take embryos from people against their will? So no one is telling you that you cant have a kid.

[shade]

Now that this isnt the christopher reeves thread I can say whats on my mind on the topic.

In the long run, we are all dead. As such, it is a horrible thought to sacrifice innocent life to try to add some time or comfort to ours.

[Maverick]

hey smart guy, did you think that maybe they dont take embryos from people against their will? So no one is telling you that you cant have a kid.
Do I really have to explain something so simple? How frustrating! :banghead:

You said that there are enough children in the world. I replied with something along the lines of I am glad you aren't in charge of making those decisions.

[pidgeball6]

Doesnt it make more sense to try and repair a man who has been alive for a long time and has more to offer than another new child into this overpopulated world?

Brilliant. You can determine that Christopher Reeves acting with all of his limbs offers more to humanity than any new child could. Are you somehow convinced that we've already learned all there is to know, or that there simply can't be another child produced that might offer more than Christopher Reeves. You may have invested too much faith in Superman V.

[Wild_Child]

I am a firm believer that the United States government has already indulged into the stem cell subject years ago. What I don’t understand is why people wouldn’t want replacement parts for broken ones. Kidneys, Livers, Hearts I would surely give all I had to have a loved one live longer. Is that wrong? Is that so difficult to understand? Self preservation is an instinct and stem cell research is just a vessel for the solution to that issue.

Ethically I think its wrong but if faced with that issue I would break my principles. Am I selfish?

[pidgeball6]

I don't think you're selfish. I think self sacrifice to save the ones we love is human nature. I would support stem cell research if it involved harvested cells from willing participants. I'm not a big pro-life fanatic or anything, I just think there is a better way that doesn't involve taking a life. The technology is advancing so rapidly, who's to say we won't be able to achieve the same results with adult samples in 5 years?

[droogsteve]

Brilliant. You can determine that Christopher Reeves acting with all of his limbs offers more to humanity than any new child could. Are you somehow convinced that we've already learned all there is to know, or that there simply can't be another child produced that might offer more than Christopher Reeves.


I don't think this argument is valid in the least. These embryos would be created in a lab from donated sperm and eggs specifically for this purpose. Therefore the standard anti-abortion arguments about an aborted child potentially curing cancer or inventing a great tasting light beer do not apply because there never WAS potential in this case. If the embryos weren't created for the research, they would never have existed at all, negating the "child might offer more than Christopher Reeve" argument.

However, there are plenty of sick children who COULD go on to great things if stem cell research finds a cure for their afflictions. I'm a little more concerned about them than I am with some zygote in a petri dish.

[pidgeball6]

I don't think this argument is valid in the least. These embryos would be created in a lab from donated sperm and eggs specifically for this purpose. Therefore the standard anti-abortion arguments about an aborted child potentially curing cancer or inventing a great tasting light beer do not apply because there never WAS potential in this case. If the embryos weren't created for the research, they would never have existed at all, negating the "child might offer more than Christopher Reeve" argument.

However, there are plenty of sick children who COULD go on to great things if stem cell research finds a cure for their afflictions. I'm a little more concerned about them than I am with some zygote in a petri dish.
and this is why you have the pretty green line below your name. Arguing for stemcell research because Superman could offer more than an unborn child is why I felt obligigated to respond.

I disagree with the notion of creating embryos for the purpose of scientific research, and that's where we'll stand. My convictions are personal as I'm sure yours are, and no amount of evidence or links would reverse our respective positions, so......there it is.

[AbsoluteIgnitor]

In the long run, we are all dead. As such, it is a horrible thought to sacrifice innocent life to try to add some time or comfort to ours.

If research starts on stem cells that may not be the case.

[monkeyboy666]

Are you retarded? Christopher Reeve was the biggest supporter of stem cell research on the planet. He repeatedly lobbied Congress and the Senate to remove all restrictions on embryonic stem cell research. He personally blamed the Bush administration for holding up research:


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/showbiz/2263289.stm


How the hell is supporting a cause that he fervently believed in an insult to him.

haha

__________________________________________________ ___

anyway, as with abortion, we are supposed to be setting our personal convictions aside. if you dont believe in stem cell research, dont donate your sperm or eggs. you cant force your beliefs on the entire country. we are all free to make that decision ourselves. thats america. at the very least it should be a state-by-state thing like cheney's cop-out answer to gay marriage.

[vchampionl70]

Personally, I support the use of stem cells. What needs to be made clear, however, is that stem cells are still legal - a perfect example is that NJ is now funding stem cell research.

The main point of contention is that the /federal/ government should not be funding it. If states, or private organizations choose to, that's fine with me. The last thing we need is more federal spending and bureaucracy?

[Asbestos Crayon]

If Kerry is God, the Pope is going to be really pissed.

[PsiRedEye22]

Humans aren't vegetables. Ain't supposed to grow em just to harvest them. That's really all I have to say.

And regardless of how the sperm and egg are donated, the anti-abortion arguement is a perfectly valid point.

Fuck stem cells.

[krackel]

Humans aren't vegetables. Ain't supposed to grow em just to harvest them. That's really all I have to say.
yet, we can drop bombs on civilians and call it collateral damage?

[BigMattTheHobo]

I was just thinking..... none of you can prove that kerry isn't a god.

[Chewy]

I was just thinking..... none of you can prove that kerry isn't a god.
God's don't get Purple Hearts I think they just get resurrected in a few days. :icon_rofl

[Libertine]

Are you retarded? Christopher Reeve was the biggest supporter of stem cell research on the planet. He repeatedly lobbied Congress and the Senate to remove all restrictions on embryonic stem cell research. He personally blamed the Bush administration for holding up research:


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/showbiz/2263289.stm


How the hell is supporting a cause that he fervently believed in an insult to him.
gigatonblast has left the building.

[JaCkEd637]

what? Christopher reeve is dead. he died yesterday

[Maverick]

I was just thinking..... none of you can prove that kerry isn't a god.
If John Kerry is God he wouldn't have needed a Swiftboat. :lol:

[PsiRedEye22]

yet, we can drop bombs on civilians and call it collateral damage?

Yep! We just go out of our way to drop them bombs right on supermarkets just to get a few chuckles! Tee hee!

Hippie.

[shade]

What I don’t understand is why people wouldn’t want replacement parts for broken ones. Kidneys, Livers, Hearts I would surely give all I had to have a loved one live longer. Is that wrong? Not wrong at all. In fact, there have been plans for cloning a pig that uses human dna (from YOU) for specific organs. Apparently our bodies are similar enough that a pig can live with a human stomach, lung, liver, etc. So you could basically have a pet pig that carries around some clones of your organs. If you need an organ, you take it from the pig.

By the way, this has a lot more promise than stem cells as far as organ replacement.

Stem cells have the most promise in the area of curing conditions, like diabetes, than simple organ replacement.

Is that so difficult to understand? Self preservation is an instinct and stem cell research is just a vessel for the solution to that issue. Sure, but you need to realise that someone like myself sees that as killing a child for a loaf of bread, instead of going out on a limb and walking a few miles to a grocery store that may have some food left. (post apocolyptic)

These embryos would be created in a lab from donated sperm and eggs specifically for this purpose. Therefore the standard anti-abortion arguments about an aborted child potentially curing cancer or inventing a great tasting light beer do not apply because there never WAS potential in this case. Except that it is the same method used for en vitro. If that embryo were implanted in to a woman, it could be a full grown human.

Point of egg fertilization, potential to grow in to full human immediately possible, two choices available: Kill it for stem cells, or implant it in a woman.

I reject the potentiality argument with regard to what the person may accomplish in life, because it could be anything, and is no more likely to be good than bad. However, in the vast majority of cases, it will at least become a self aware human, and deserves respect based solely on that.


However, there are plenty of sick children who COULD go on to great things if stem cell research finds a cure for their afflictions. Correct. Now could you make a list of non embryonic stem cell accomplishments, and compare that to a list of embryonic stem cell accomplishments? Embryonic stem cell research is legal in other countries by the way.

I'm a little more concerned about them than I am with some zygote in a petri dish. As a former zygote I resent that. ;)

The main point of contention is that the /federal/ government should not be funding it. If states, or private organizations choose to, that's fine with me. Inaccurate. Stem cells derived from embryos are flat out illegal. That was banned. Stem cells from umbilical chords, and some other source (I forget where, I think its an organ) are perfectly 100% legal. The latter are the only that have had any successes too!

yet, we can drop bombs on civilians and call it collateral damage? Yet we try our absolute hardest not to?

[daveo the great]

stem cells cna be used to replace a faulty spinal cord... organ cloning cant.

stem cell research can mean down the line a cure for alzheimers, parkinsons, parapaligicness, quadrapaligicness, and many many other diseases....


do you know how hard it is to have someone u love with alzheimers and knowing that he could be cured if some bible freaks would fucking let them research on some cells...


and i think the majority of the country is pro-stemcell research... its just that 17% of religious nuts that happen to control the government and dislike it...

[droogsteve]

Except that it is the same method used for en vitro. If that embryo were implanted in to a woman, it could be a full grown human.

Point of egg fertilization, potential to grow in to full human immediately possible, two choices available: Kill it for stem cells, or implant it in a woman.

Implant it in WHAT woman? What are you talking about? It wouldn't exist if it weren't created for the research. Do you believe there's a limited amount of embryos that can be created so we have to make a choice between research or implanting them?


I reject the potentiality argument with regard to what the person may accomplish in life, because it could be anything, and is no more likely to be good than bad. However, in the vast majority of cases, it will at least become a self aware human, and deserves respect based solely on that.No, it will NOT become a self aware human in any case, it is created to be destroyed. Even the tiniest potential of it becoming a self aware human is absent.

Correct. Now could you make a list of non embryonic stem cell accomplishments, and compare that to a list of embryonic stem cell accomplishments? Accomplishments? A specious argument, Shade. It's still in the research stages. Advantages? Embryonic stem cells can become all cell types of the body. Adult stem cells are limited to differentiating into different cell types of their tissue of origin. Did you know that no cardiac stem cells have ever been located or extracted in adult tissue? Forget about trying to cure the #1 killer in America with adult stem cells. Large numbers of embryonic stem cells can be easily grown in culture. Adult stem cells are rare in mature tissues, dificult to extract, and there is no successful method for expanding their numbers in cell culture.

Most people become upset at the term "embryo" because they picture a baby. In fact they are harvested at the blastocyst stage. They are no more than a collection of 4 to 10 cells. They have no brain, central nervous system, mouth, heart, lungs, or other internal organs. They have no organs to see, hear, touch, taste; they lack a body, head, arms or legs. They have no self awareness, memory, thought processes, or consciousness. They are smaller than a pin prick.


Embryonic stem cell research is legal in other countries by the way.

Thank you for pointing that out, Shade. You are absolutely right that embryonic stem cell research is legal in other countries. That's one of the things that makes this so embarrassing for the US. Are we supposed to reliquish our role as the world leader in science and medicine to other nations because some religious fanatics here (our president included) have declared a medical technique to be "evil"? My god, it's like the fucking dark ages. It's the kind of thing you would expect from some fanatical Islamic nation, not the most scientifically advanced nation in the world.

[krackel]

Yep! We just go out of our way to drop them bombs right on supermarkets just to get a few chuckles! Tee hee!

Hippie.
You obviously havent studied what has happened over in iraq huh? dont try to argue that we havent been over careless with our bombs there.

And 2nd, to call me a hippie? what does that mean? Anyone whos anti war is a hippie? then again whats wrong with hippies? theyre usually the ones with the dankest weed here in town. on second though ill be a hippie, theyre over the whole war thing too, so it might be less stressful. thanks for the label.

inbred hick.

[PsiRedEye22]

And 2nd, to call me a hippie? what does that mean? Anyone whos anti war is a hippie? then again whats wrong with hippies? theyre usually the ones with the dankest weed here in town.

No, hippies are people that think we slaughter civilians on purpose.


And honestly, what the heck is up with this arguement claiming that they will never be humans, because they were meant to die for research? What kind of reasoning is that? I'm all for abortion, but not growing people in a lab to kill them for stem cells, that's just crazy. It's like comparing them to chicken eggs. They'll never hatch because we eat them, yeah. But humans aren't chickens. We don't need to recycle our own kind in order to cure diseases.

(Especially ones people bring on themselves)

[droogsteve]

And honestly, what the heck is up with this arguement claiming that they will never be humans, because they were meant to die for research? What kind of reasoning is that? I'm all for abortion, but not growing people in a lab to kill them for stem cells, that's just crazy. It's like comparing them to chicken eggs. They'll never hatch because we eat them, yeah. But humans aren't chickens. We don't need to recycle our own kind in order to cure diseases.

(Especially ones people bring on themselves)

Wait a minute. You're for abortion, but oppose embryonic research? Destroying a three month fetus because of a night of drunken carelessness is OK with you, but extracting stem cells from a fertilized egg no bigger than 10 cells to potentially save millions of lives is not?

I must say, your logic baffles me.