Immigrants.

[wackojacko]

What's your view on letting immigrants into the states?

I think that for the most part it's alright. Some may say that they "take our jobs," but when Americans lose their high-paying job at the office, then they refuse to work labor-work. Thats BS. The hispanics are doing all the jobs that the un-employed Americans won't do..all of the labor work. If Americans are bitching about lost jobs, then they need to get off their asses and humble themselves to work at the damn place across the street.

This nation was founded on the blue-collar, and if those immigrants left, then I swear that we would have fucking nobody to plant the tree in front of McDonalds. Sheesh.

[wils0646]

A lot of people come in with that argument, but it's simply not true. If wages were put a bit higher, Americans would definitely have the incentive to do these types of jobs. Sure, the prices of food, clothing, etc. would be a bit higher, but Americans would buy them regardless if they were a little more expensive.

[shade]

There are plenty of immigrants at my univserity that certainly will not be flipping burgers, and very well may take my job, especially with all these pushes towards "diversity in the workforce" where the employer may not just be looking at ones ability to perform.

[Jay-Z]

This nation was founded on no-collar.

[monkeyboy666]

im tired of hearing the same old "theyre stealing our jobs" argument. thats borderline racist and at the very least ignorant. no one is going to hire anyone who isnt capable of performing as expected. if youre really worried about getting a job then go do something to distinguish yourself and quit whining. or if youre too lazy to do that, go watch american history x.

[Jay-Z]

no one is going to hire anyone who isnt capable of performing as expected.

Who said immigrants aren't capable of performing what is expected?

[monkeyboy666]

Who said immigrants aren't capable of performing what is expected?

shade alluded to it:

There are plenty of immigrants at my univserity that certainly will not be flipping burgers, and very well may take my job, especially with all these pushes towards "diversity in the workforce" where the employer may not just be looking at ones ability to perform.

im not trying to put words in shade's mouth.

you can read what he posted for yourself. but he reminded me of the same tired bullshit i hear all the time: "they dont deserve [whatever] they just got it cuz theyre [an immigrant/minority]." my post is in response to that mentality. that is why i originally didnt quote anyone. its a feeling expressed by many people, and im not saying it was necessarily explicitly expressed in this thread. nonetheless i feel my post is relevant to the topic.

in the case where an immigrant or minority and the average white american have the same resume, and the immigrant gets the job, yeah ok sucks for the white guy. but if he really wants a job then he should go do something to distinguish himself from the immigant (and everyone else, for that matter). you dont know if the immigrant got the job cuz hes an immigrant, or cuz hes friends with someone else who already works there, or if the employer just flipped a coin. fact is if hes qualified to do the job theres no reason why he shouldnt get the job over the white guy any more than the other way around. if the white guy got the job, the immigrant would probly feel like he only got it cuz he was white. to him id say the same thing: go distinguish yourself. sulking is a waste of energy. so is whining.

[soundnthefury]

Basically, what it breaks down to is that if someone wants to go through the proper motions and get into the country legally, I have no problem with it whatsoever. This country was pretty much crafted and filled by immigrants... and since I don't think the Cherokee were stamping any green cards, we don't really have the right to say that America is only for "Americans." I do think that there should be a stricter border policy so that people aren't able to just flow in here like water through a sieve. And in terms of jobs being stolen, there should be a stiffer penalty for people that use illegal labor (I'm not even sure what the current penalty is. Did Walmart catch any hell from that recent crackdown?). And about affirimitive action, that effort can be focused towards making public education in urban areas less of a joke, since that would probably wind up leveling the playing field without sowing extra resentment or making any quotas to be filled. Forced tolerance combined with this overwhelming need to be PC has done nothing more than make intolerance something people keep under the surface... and that's definitely not making any progress in the way of race relations.

[Decepticon902]

Immagration is a good and bad thing, LEGAL immagration is a good thing. more tax paying citizens, and if they took the time to go through the immagration process they are probably people who came to america with a skill set.
Illegal immagration is a real problem, people who dont pay taxes, and often end up working the lowest end jobs liek shoveling horse shit because they are illega
"aliens". and most of them cant get jobs, and when people dont get jobs, they turn to crime.

as a side not, hardly anyone immagrates to canada. whereas i read a figure of liek 3 million for the usa (anyone got an exact figure)l

[lcstinky]

in the case where an immigrant or minority and the average white american have the same resume, and the immigrant gets the job, yeah ok sucks for the white guy. but if he really wants a job then he should go do something to distinguish himself from the immigant (and everyone else, for that matter). you dont know if the immigrant got the job cuz hes an immigrant, or cuz hes friends with someone else who already works there, or if the employer just flipped a coin.But you would know if there wasn't affirmative action.

Also, some of these jobs would pay better if immigrants weren't willing to do them on the cheap. You really think white people aren't willing to do manual labor?

Frankly, I don't think America has any business limiting immigration--it's what this country is all about. But illegal immigrants lower wages, and generally weaken the position of organized labor.

[droogsteve]

It always amuses me when liberals defend illegal immigration when main beneficiaries of illegal immigration are the rich businessmen that they despise. They get to pay pennies to the illegals instead of a decent wage to an American. They pay no benefits, no payroll or other taxes, no unemployment insurance, nothing is on the books. They rake in the profits with both hands and the liberals defend their thievery. It's hilarious.


The entire "they do jobs that Americans won't do" is a lie. Do you think you'd have a problem finding Americans to pick lettuce if it paid $12 an hour? Americans won't do them because the wages of these jobs are artificially low. The wages are artificially low because illegal immigrants will do the job for less. It's self perpetuating. Will the price go up? Of course, but not unreasonable so. People aren't going to stop buying lettuce. Any negative effect on the economy would be offset by the millions in taxes paid by these legal employees that illegals don't pay.

[Fossil]

Illegal immigration is the elephant in the room neither political party wants to talk about. I wish they would have made more of an issue of it at the "debates" these past few weeks, but not surprisingly it didn't come up much. I gathered from what little was mentioned about illegal immigration on the "debates" that both sides are in favor of temporary work permits for Mexicans.

I guess we'll issue out so many work visas and then all those other Mexicans that don't get one will just patiently wait it out until they finally make the list..

Yeah, that'll fix the problem. Fools.


Friends, countrymen, Americans,

vote for Fossil and I promise to annex Mexico and make it the 51st state.
I'll seize all Mexican assets and redistribute them evenly and fairly to all citizens of Mexico. I'll take all the trillions of pesos Mexico's elite like Fox and Aramburuzabala stashed away in their fat bank accounts and use them to jump start a healthy Mexican economy, one where Juan and Maria will be able to provide for all 13 of their hungry children. The people of Mexico will love this new Mexico so much that they won't want to leave it. And if they ever do we'll toss them into snake pits.

[drowningaugust]

Outsourcing by the Bush admin. is causing as many jobs to be "taken" as immigration.

[dead]

Illegal immigration is the elephant in the room neither political party wants to talk about. I wish they would have made more of an issue of it at the "debates" these past few weeks, but not surprisingly it didn't come up much. I gathered from what little was mentioned about illegal immigration on the "debates" that both sides are in favor of temporary work permits for Mexicans.

I guess we'll issue out so many work visas and then all those other Mexicans that don't get one will just patiently wait it out until they finally make the list..

Yeah, that'll fix the problem. Fools.


Friends, countrymen, Americans,

vote for Fossil and I promise to annex Mexico and make it the 51st state.
I'll seize all Mexican assets and redistribute them evenly and fairly to all citizens of Mexico. I'll take all the trillions of pesos Mexico's elite like Fox and Aramburuzabala stashed away in their fat bank accounts and use them to jump start a healthy Mexican economy, one where Juan and Maria will be able to provide for all 13 of their hungry children. The people of Mexico will love this new Mexico so much that they won't want to leave it. And if they ever do we'll toss them into snake pits.
maybe you can get the money from the Rockefellers too and buy canada as your 52 state ;)

[shade]

thats borderline racist and at the very least ignorant. no one is going to hire anyone who isnt capable of performing as expected. So if the Indian was in India, he would still take my job doing networking and databasing at a US company?

if youre too lazy to do that, go watch american history x. Great movie.

shade alluded to it No, I didnt. I said they would be looking at more than job performance. As in, if we have equal performance, I am less likely to get the job because I am a white male. Is that fair? A coin flip would be fair. I just dont see why the fact that my penis is white should impact my employment.

Outsourcing by the Bush admin. is causing as many jobs to be "taken" as immigration. http://money.cnn.com/2004/06/10/news/economy/jobless_outsourcing/

3% of jobs lost have been due to offshoring.

[Karajan]

Basically, what it breaks down to is that if someone wants to go through the proper motions and get into the country legally, I have no problem with it whatsoever. This country was pretty much crafted and filled by immigrants... and since I don't think the Cherokee were stamping any green cards, we don't really have the right to say that America is only for "Americans." I do think that there should be a stricter border policy so that people aren't able to just flow in here like water through a sieve. And in terms of jobs being stolen, there should be a stiffer penalty for people that use illegal labor (I'm not even sure what the current penalty is. Did Walmart catch any hell from that recent crackdown?). And about affirimitive action, that effort can be focused towards making public education in urban areas less of a joke, since that would probably wind up leveling the playing field without sowing extra resentment or making any quotas to be filled. Forced tolerance combined with this overwhelming need to be PC has done nothing more than make intolerance something people keep under the surface... and that's definitely not making any progress in the way of race relations.

I like this post. Especially the part that I bolded. Not to get off on AA here, as that's in another thread. But seriously, if all of the money and effort that's going into Affirmative Action could be put in to helping the crappier public schools in the country (read: this wouldn't just help minorities, but everyone) then that would go a much longer way to helping minorities in the long run, as the largest proportion of minorities are in inner city schools.

As for immigration, I have a lot of friends that are from other countries (Asia and South America primarily). I've talked to them about it before and they basically believe that people that come here illegally are the ones making it so hard for people like them that are doing it by the books to become naturalized. Go figure.