my response to claims new music is bad

[( ((hoBodav)) )]

sorry since this is sort of a repost, but i originally wrote this in response to something frymaster said way down in the grammys thread, i think for the sake of most people on this forum it deserves to be seen.

what really irritates me sometimes is that people are not making an effort to look for new music, and instead choose to languish within classic rock and complain that new music just isn't the same because it doesn't have long solos and technically proficient musicians. although that may be a bit of a generalization, in the short amount of time that i've been on these forums that's all i've been reading. i wouldn't make such a big deal about it, but you guys constantly demonstrate an extremely caustic and hate-filled attitude towards something you are obviously unfamiliar with.

i'll give you an example with pink floyd. i like pink floyd and i know there's a lot of pink floyd fans on here, but everyone always talks about how good DSOTM is, and no one ever mentions piper at the gates of dawn or any of syd barrett's other contributions. this to me IS pink floyd, more so than DSOTM, and yet even though everyone constantly cites them as one of their favorite bands, no one even knows about their earlier work. This tells me that, even though you claim to be music lovers and believe that classic rock is so great, hardly any of you have dug deeper even with your own favorite bands. so if you're either ignoring or finding it difficult to understand your favorite bands within a larger context of the overall contributions they made musically, maybe you shouldn't be making generalizations about something that you have NO knowledge about, i.e. modern music.

for me, i don't judge a musician if they're not an expert with their instrument. music is about so much more than just being a good musician... who cares if you're a pro if you don't have the heart for it. many of my favorite bands may not be the greatest from a technical standpoint, but they understand and work to achieve a certain sound and emotion in their work, and that to me is much more important than playing a kickin' solo.

in my post below, i mention a lot of bands, and i'm trying to help push you in a certain direction to take when exploring the wonders of modern music. i assume that either through inadequately stocked record stores or stagnation among the tastes of the people you hang out with, you have simply been unable to progress and find new music that suits you. so, i'm basically just trying to give you an idea of what to look for.

i was also very angry at what frymaster wrote and i used some strong words denouncing his comments, but you can judge for yourself. i'm not trying to come off as high-brow or look down upon you, but i simply could not ignore this comment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frymaster
what a shitty ass post. tip for noob: nobody on these forums cares about your 'dissecting' of this year's hot rap albums. we all hate rap except for a few noobs like yourself, and we CERTAINLY don't care who YOU think should/will win.



you are an ignorant fuck for generalizing that everyone on these forums hates rap, and you are an even bigger idiot for assuming that rap is not deserving of anyone's attention.

i'm going to go out on a limb and assume that you are really stupid.

first, let me describe my own views on music. understand that there are shitty mainstream bands that everyone listens to or at least has heard of, such as corporate and (in my opinion) classic rock which i feel are contantly being pushed in your face.

and then there are lots of underground bands in genres like noise pop (sonic youth, pixies, dinosaur jr., jesus & mary chain), britpop (oasis, stone roses, verve), shoegaze (my bloody valentine, slowdive, ride), as well as newer bands that always seem to fly by right under your nose because you are too wrapped up in your own little world to notice them (interpol, placebo, pinback, my vitriol, modest mouse, sigur ros), as well as old artists that are still carving out new ground (tom waits, nick cave, elvis costello) and new, genuinely quality mainstream bands like franz ferdinand and the killers that don't get the respect that they deserve.

rap is pretty much the same way. many people have heard of the mainstream stuff like eminem and 50 cent, but what about the vast majority of talented aritsts you never even knew existed? what about the hundreds, maybe even thousands, of underground DJs and rappers that bust their asses EVERY DAY trying to sell the albums, mixtapes, and remixes that they virtually write, perform, and produce themselves? go listen to some of sosouth's screwed & chopped albums and then tell me that rap is shit. go listen to some artists like juelz santana, fabolous, ludacris, nas, twista, mike jones, outKast, the game, and even old stuff like a tribe called quest and brand nubian and tell me rap is shit. kanye west is a great new talent and deserves everything that he got.

there's a difference between stating your opinion and being a jackass, and even though i and other people on these forums constantly try to be diplomatic people like you just keep crossing the line and are contantly undermining us in our attempts to help you expand your tastes and find good modern music. by making widespread generalizations about what is good and what isn't, or making assumptions about the opinions of other people on here, you are only succeeding in dividing the social and cultural rift between all of us. i want to address my one major grievance with these forums. will you actually check out any of the things i listed? does anybody, ever check out bands from lists people posted on here that DON'T include led zeppelin and pink floyd? you're asking for good new music, and i'm giving it to you, both rock and rap. and until you actually listen to them, stop being a fucking hippocrite and giving unfounded opinions.




please, i may not be the best person to be saying these things, but if anyone understands what i'm trying to say please post your own opinions on this issue.

[YouEnjoyMyself]

Pink Floyd is so much more then DSOTM. It's always been my opinion that people who say DSOTM is their favorite PF album, really know very little about PF.

[IsItLiquidOrICE]

what a shitty ass post. tip for noob: nobody on these forums cares about your 'dissecting' of this year's hot rap albums. we all hate rap except for a few noobs like yourself, and we CERTAINLY don't care who YOU think should/will win.


Dumbest statement that I have seen on the forums. Fuck you Frymaster. WHo are you to speak on behalf of 20,000+ members? We're not all close minded dumbasses like yourself. Whya re you calling him a noob? Is that supposed to be an insult? God man! You're retarded!!

P.S. Kiss my rap loving ass, faggot.

[reigenborn]

Ok. Fling some band names at me hoBodav.. Ill give you a responce.

[floydheadnumba1]

Pink Floyd is so much more then DSOTM. It's always been my opinion that people who say DSOTM is their favorite PF album, really know very little about PF.
Hell yes do I agree. All of their albums are great, even the early ones.

[reigenborn]

Hell yes do I agree. All of their albums are great, even the early ones.
I need to change one thing..


Hell yes do I agree. All of their albums are great, especially the early ones.

[banjo1735]

My first response to this is: Uh-oh: an Ashlee Simpson fan.

My second response: I'd like to hear about some bands you are talking about (in good-will, not to just say they suck).

Last response: Many people say that shit because they want to fit in. A lot of people like today's music, and that's that. They can't be a worse person because of it, and they certainly deserve to have their own opinion. People who genre-bash have no idea what they are saying when they say "Rap sucks ass." Music is not a science, it is entertainment, and if an artist makes money off of their music, it means that they're successful. The proper statement would be
"I don't like rap." and that's it.

...I don't like rap.

[( ((hoBodav)) )]

please read all of this and then comment.

MY OPINIONS:
nu-metal like linkin park and papa roach is NOT representative of modern music. pop-punk like good charlotte and taking back sunday is NOT representative of good modern music. pop like avril lavigne and ashlee simpson is not what real modern music lovers listen to. not even bands like RHCP and foo fighters are really representative of what is happening now. if you really want to know where modern music is headed, listen to bands like interpol and placebo, phenomenal, progressive and trend-setting bands that simply cannot get any radio airplay right now.

also, i'm not trying to say that you should go listen to rap. but i'm saying that for all the 15-year-old wigger bitches out there who think they're so gangster, if you listen to eminem and 50 cent, you have not heard rap. you listen to CRAP, but you don't listen to RAP. i'm saying that if that's your only experience with the rap genre, you are in sad shape, because that's the equivalent of like listening to the limp bizkits of rock.

Ok. Fling some band names at me hoBodav.. Ill give you a responce.

"and then there are lots of underground bands in genres like noise pop (sonic youth, pixies, dinosaur jr., jesus & mary chain ), britpop (oasis, stone roses, verve ), shoegaze (my bloody valentine, slowdive, ride ), as well as newer bands that always seem to fly by right under your nose because you are too wrapped up in your own little world to notice them (interpol, placebo, pinback, my vitriol, modest mouse, sigur ros ), as well as old artists that are still carving out new ground (tom waits, nick cave, elvis costello ) and new, genuinely quality mainstream bands like franz ferdinand and the killers that don't get the respect that they deserve.

rap is pretty much the same way. many people have heard of the mainstream stuff like eminem and 50 cent, but what about the vast majority of talented aritsts you never even knew existed? what about the hundreds, maybe even thousands, of underground DJs and rappers that bust their asses EVERY DAY trying to sell the albums, mixtapes, and remixes that they virtually write, perform, and produce themselves? go listen to some of sosouth's screwed & chopped albums and then tell me that rap is shit. go listen to some artists like juelz santana, fabolous, ludacris, nas, twista, mike jones, outKast, the game, and even old stuff like a tribe called quest and brand nubian and tell me rap is shit. kanye west is a great new talent and deserves everything that he got."



any of those are good. the late eighties/early nineties manchester scene was an especially healthy time for music, but most people didn't notice because they were too busy listening to shite like metallica (no offense, it just doesn't compare). if you're a fan of david bowie, you would like Suede. if you're a fan of 60's mod stuff like the Who, the Faces and Syd Barrett, you'd probably like Blur. The Flaming Lips, Ocean Colour Scene and Pulp are all great bands, as is early Oasis.

if you're into something heavier, you can check into the Swans/Angels of Light/Jarboe trio of bands. Ulver and Opeth are a little mainstream, but they're great too. you should listen to Mike Patton's whole range of bands and side projects, including Tomahawk, Fantomas, Mr. Bungle, and Faith No More. some of my favorite bands right now are Sonic Youth and My Bloody Valentine, both incredibly noisy bands progressively forging new ways that a guitar can be played.

There's some great noise-rock bands out there like an Albatross and Melt-banana you might like.

there's some amazing post-rock bands out there like Godspeed You Black Emperor!, Mogwai, Sofa, Mum, and a Silver Mt. Zion. he's old, but John Cage has done some amazing work. Sigur Ros to me is very spacey like Pink Floyd's DSOTM era.

if you're into alt-country (its great) you'd like Wilco and the Thrills.

if you think the white stripes have lost their edge, you could try the Black Keys.

if you're a fan of simon & garfunkel, you could try out some chamber pop like of Montreal and Belle & Sebastian.

if you like neil young, you should check out some of Modest Mouse's earlier albums.

if you're crazy about the Beatles, you will go ga-ga over the Apples in Stereo.

Portishead and Broadcast are great noir-ish trip-hop bands. Massive attack is great too.

Aphex Twin and DJ Shadow are great if you're into drum-n-bass/beatbox type stuff.

the eighties wasn't all hair metal shit like van halen and madonna pop. there's a wealth of bands like the Smiths/Morrissey, the Cure, Joy Division, New Order, Depeche Mode, the Go-Betweens, R.E.M., Psychadelic Furs, Tears For Fears. these to me are much more representative of the eighties and competely make up for tired shit like metallica and def leppard.

franz ferdinand is probably the best example of the new British wave, but if you like that beat-heavy style you may also enjoy !!! (chk chk chk) and the faint.

i also like the Stills, the Weakerthans, and Metric.

the point is, as a discerning musician (i play bass and violin), these are just a few of the bands that i have weeded out from the bad stuff. Just look at some of this stuff. Just go to amazon.com or barnes and noble and listen to the 30-second samples. please. do it. now.

[/Tilt/]

DSOTM wasn't good. Modern music isn't good. The modern music you describe is actually future music and will catch on eventually. The Game sucks. Fabolous sucks. Ludacris is actually talented. Your opinions serve no purpose, even though you handled them better than anyone on these forums I've ever seen.

[( ((hoBodav)) )]

DSOTM wasn't good. Modern music isn't good. The modern music you describe is actually future music and will catch on eventually. Your opinions serve no purpose, even though you handled them better than anyone on these forums I've ever seen.


thanks for your comment, but i think you're wrong though. these are all good, viable bands that exist right now, and although they may not be played on MTV, they truly represent what is happening in modern music much more than what IS on MTV.

i'm afraid that many of you take so much stock in believing that, since some of these bands may not be as mainstream as others, its not necessary to listen to them now because they will catch on later. my major concern is that if you blink you may miss some of these bands; they need your help and support now by buying their albums and attending their concerts, and if you don't they may just fade off into history.

also, i'm not saying that DSOTM isn't good, but people shouldn't just assume that's the only decent thing Pink Floyd ever did and then turn around and say they're one of their favorite bands.

The Game sucks. Fabolous sucks. Ludacris is actually talented.

lol, yeah it could really go either way with those guys. rap was never my favorite style, but i'd still rather hear that than some supremely overhyped shit like 50 cent.



if anyone has checked out any of those bands yet, please post your comments here describing how you felt about them. at least get on limewire or something and download some songs by each of these bands, so you'll at least have an idea of the way they sound. or, you could go to http://www.allmusic.com and read the biographies.

[Sucrose]

Well. I can honestly say I've heard alot of new music, I couldnt rattle off song names, but I've heard my share in my friends cars, brother...etc. And you talk about you dont care if their technically skilled and neither do I to a point. I love emotion in music, but I do NOT like this angsty bullshit psuedo-emotion. To me the most emotion in music can be expressed in a good solo. Listen to "To Live is to Die" THAT is emotion. Listen to "Since I've Been Loving You" THAT is emotion. I havent heard any modern music have the same effect on me, or even come close for that matter. It almost seems like a fact to me that older music was far better than newer music and for you to come in here and tell me that I'm misinformed is not something I like at all. I listen to music for music not from a technical skill standpoint and I can honestly say I claim new music is bad. Sue me.

EDIT: Few exceptions that I know of...Opeth, Sonata Arctica, Nightwish, Avenged Sevenfold

[/Tilt/]

also, i'm not saying that DSOTM isn't good
That was just me. I dont think DSOTM was good.

[Liquid Tension]

sorry since this is sort of a repost, but i originally wrote this in response to something frymaster said way down in the grammys thread, i think for the sake of most people on this forum it deserves to be seen.

what really irritates me sometimes is that people are not making an effort to look for new music, and instead choose to languish within classic rock and complain that new music just isn't the same because it doesn't have long solos and technically proficient musicians. although that may be a bit of a generalization, in the short amount of time that i've been on these forums that's all i've been reading. i wouldn't make such a big deal about it, but you guys constantly demonstrate an extremely caustic and hate-filled attitude towards something you are obviously unfamiliar with.

i'll give you an example with pink floyd. i like pink floyd and i know there's a lot of pink floyd fans on here, but everyone always talks about how good DSOTM is, and no one ever mentions piper at the gates of dawn or any of syd barrett's other contributions. this to me IS pink floyd, more so than DSOTM, and yet even though everyone constantly cites them as one of their favorite bands, no one even knows about their earlier work. This tells me that, even though you claim to be music lovers and believe that classic rock is so great, hardly any of you have dug deeper even with your own favorite bands. so if you're either ignoring or finding it difficult to understand your favorite bands within a larger context of the overall contributions they made musically, maybe you shouldn't be making generalizations about something that you have NO knowledge about, i.e. modern music.

for me, i don't judge a musician if they're not an expert with their instrument. music is about so much more than just being a good musician... who cares if you're a pro if you don't have the heart for it. many of my favorite bands may not be the greatest from a technical standpoint, but they understand and work to achieve a certain sound and emotion in their work, and that to me is much more important than playing a kickin' solo.

in my post below, i mention a lot of bands, and i'm trying to help push you in a certain direction to take when exploring the wonders of modern music. i assume that either through inadequately stocked record stores or stagnation among the tastes of the people you hang out with, you have simply been unable to progress and find new music that suits you. so, i'm basically just trying to give you an idea of what to look for.

i was also very angry at what frymaster wrote and i used some strong words denouncing his comments, but you can judge for yourself. i'm not trying to come off as high-brow or look down upon you, but i simply could not ignore this comment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frymaster
what a shitty ass post. tip for noob: nobody on these forums cares about your 'dissecting' of this year's hot rap albums. we all hate rap except for a few noobs like yourself, and we CERTAINLY don't care who YOU think should/will win.



you are an ignorant fuck for generalizing that everyone on these forums hates rap, and you are an even bigger idiot for assuming that rap is not deserving of anyone's attention.

i'm going to go out on a limb and assume that you are really stupid.

first, let me describe my own views on music. understand that there are shitty mainstream bands that everyone listens to or at least has heard of, such as corporate and (in my opinion) classic rock which i feel are contantly being pushed in your face.

and then there are lots of underground bands in genres like noise pop (sonic youth, pixies, dinosaur jr., jesus & mary chain), britpop (oasis, stone roses, verve), shoegaze (my bloody valentine, slowdive, ride), as well as newer bands that always seem to fly by right under your nose because you are too wrapped up in your own little world to notice them (interpol, placebo, pinback, my vitriol, modest mouse, sigur ros), as well as old artists that are still carving out new ground (tom waits, nick cave, elvis costello) and new, genuinely quality mainstream bands like franz ferdinand and the killers that don't get the respect that they deserve.

rap is pretty much the same way. many people have heard of the mainstream stuff like eminem and 50 cent, but what about the vast majority of talented aritsts you never even knew existed? what about the hundreds, maybe even thousands, of underground DJs and rappers that bust their asses EVERY DAY trying to sell the albums, mixtapes, and remixes that they virtually write, perform, and produce themselves? go listen to some of sosouth's screwed & chopped albums and then tell me that rap is shit. go listen to some artists like juelz santana, fabolous, ludacris, nas, twista, mike jones, outKast, the game, and even old stuff like a tribe called quest and brand nubian and tell me rap is shit. kanye west is a great new talent and deserves everything that he got.

there's a difference between stating your opinion and being a jackass, and even though i and other people on these forums constantly try to be diplomatic people like you just keep crossing the line and are contantly undermining us in our attempts to help you expand your tastes and find good modern music. by making widespread generalizations about what is good and what isn't, or making assumptions about the opinions of other people on here, you are only succeeding in dividing the social and cultural rift between all of us. i want to address my one major grievance with these forums. will you actually check out any of the things i listed? does anybody, ever check out bands from lists people posted on here that DON'T include led zeppelin and pink floyd? you're asking for good new music, and i'm giving it to you, both rock and rap. and until you actually listen to them, stop being a fucking hippocrite and giving unfounded opinions.




please, i may not be the best person to be saying these things, but if anyone understands what i'm trying to say please post your own opinions on this issue.

I agree with you to a degree. But it seems alot of the bands you like peaked in (as you say) the late 80s and nineties. What do you say to the people like me who prefer the even more modern music? Have you adequately listened to all the even more modern bands before your retreat into your own world in 1993?

Alot of those bands made it "uncool" to be good with guitar or drums, which I really dislike. They did represent a interesting time of experimentation in youth though which is cool.

[BiGsExy1986]

Hell yes do I agree. All of their albums are great, even the early ones.
My favorite Pink Floyd album is Wish You Were Here. "Wish You Were Here" and "Have a Cigar" are two of my favorite songs.

[Dual]

Dumbest statement that I have seen on the forums. Fuck you Frymaster. WHo are you to speak on behalf of 20,000+ members? We're not all close minded dumbasses like yourself. Whya re you calling him a noob? Is that supposed to be an insult? God man! You're retarded!!

P.S. Kiss my rap loving ass, faggot.


Couldn't have said it better myself.

[COBHC]

I agree with most of what you said except for the underground hip hop. In my opinion I dont even consider that music. There not even singing just talking really fast. I was watching that movie with a bunch of black guys at work and I just didnt get it. Maybe becuase it is 'true gangster rap' and they love that image or wahtever I have no clue.
Maybe someone can tell me what makes it so special. Cause if I was in hell being forced to listen to either ludacris or that underground stuff I would be begging for ludacris.

[Frymaster]

Dumbest statement that I have seen on the forums. Fuck you Frymaster. Who are you to speak on behalf of 20,000+ members? We're not all close minded dumbasses like yourself. Whya re you calling him a noob? Is that supposed to be an insult? God man! You're retarded!! actually, i'm not a sped just to get it straight.

P.S. Kiss my rap loving ass, faggot.

ooo e-trash! :) after awhile i looked back at the post and agree with you, it sucked. i didn't have a right to say some things, although i did. not all rap stinks in my opinion, as i do have some rap songs on my ipod. it's just for me, in a school where all kids listen to rap, it kind of sucks as it isnt my favorite genre. i can't talk about the music i like with people i know because they find reasons why MY music sucks, but not theirs. and just an ending question did lloyd banks go to jail? cuz i thought he was gonna be big, i liked his first two songs. and i called him a noob cuz i think that was his 1st or 2nd post. he had under 10, i know that.

[( ((hoBodav)) )]

It almost seems like a fact to me that older music was far better than newer music and for you to come in here and tell me that I'm misinformed is not something I like at all.

that's because you are misinformed. :D :D :D

my guess is that most people just forgot what to look for (or in the case of the 15,000 15-year olds on here, never learned in the first place) :icon_rofl


I agree with you to a degree. But it seems alot of the bands you like peaked in (as you say) the late 80s and nineties. What do you say to the people like me who prefer the even more modern music? Have you adequately listened to all the even more modern bands before your retreat into your own world in 1993?

Alot of those bands made it "uncool" to be good with guitar or drums, which I really dislike. They did represent a interesting time of experimentation in youth though which is cool.


about half the bands i listed have come out within the last 5-6 years, some within the past year or two. and except for the 80s paragraph, the rest within the last 10-15. that's true though , some of those bands hit a peak years ago, but then again so did black sabbath. :D

i just gave a general overview of some of the stuff that came out from the 80s to the present that is worth hearing/justifies the relevance of modern music, but of course there's much much more. i just wanted to give examples from all the eras, because the opinion on these boards is that music turned to shit after 1980, so i wanted to demonstrate that it wasn't so.

speaking of the 80s, if anyone wants to know what happened to all the good music in that era why don't you look at this (http://www.rhino.com/store/ProductDetail.lasso?Number=76490) compilation, they sum it up way better than i can. Comments?


i disagree with you though, i think that the late 80s era was one of the best eras for the development of new music, the fact that being technically proficient was "uncool" was a great benefit to the musical community because, even if people weren't all virtuosos, it allowed musicians with a much greater sense of creativity and expression than that era's mainstream bands to step forward and get a chance they might not otherwise have had. it was more subtle than the punk revolution in the late 70s and certainly not as commercialized, but it still gave rock a creative boost that it sorely needed. if not for those bands, the only rock music that would be around today might be Journey and Def Leppard!

i'm curious though, what music do you listen to?

ooo e-trash! after awhile i looked back at the post and agree with you, it sucked. i didn't have a right to say some things, although i did. not all rap stinks in my opinion, as i do have some rap songs on my ipod. it's just for me, in a school where all kids listen to rap, it kind of sucks as it isnt my favorite genre. i can't talk about the music i like with people i know because they find reasons why MY music sucks, but not theirs. and just an ending question did lloyd banks go to jail? cuz i thought he was gonna be big, i liked his first two songs. and i called him a noob cuz i think that was his 1st or 2nd post. he had under 10, i know that.

thanks, that's all i was trying to say, there's still some good rap out there. there's a lot of underground artists out there that tend to break from the conventional mold of just using lame beatboxes, and actually employ real bands to back them up, which for a white person sounds pretty good. :lol:

what you said just basically gave me a reason to make a big rant, not so much about rap but just music in general.



p.s. the purpose of this thread was that people would listen to some of those bands on amazon.com or barnes & noble and then post their comments here. if it turns out you think they're bad or i'm full of shit, so be it. but please, at least do that, don't just let this thread die without serving its purpose.

[Deathw1sh]

Most mainstream, new music sucks. The industry has very little integrity nowadays, and image is a disgustingly large part of the music. That last bit is mostly thanks to mtv.

Now there is some good music out there nowadays, and I'm not one to judge a band or artist before I hear them, but the fact is, there isn't as much talent and integrity as there is corporate greed nowadays.

anyways, I summed it up a little while ago here: http://forum.ebaumsworld.com/showpost.php?p=825029&postcount=28

don't feel like retyping it, so consider yourself linked.

[( ((hoBodav)) )]

Back a few decades ago, the radio waves were filled with artists who were doing it for the music moreso than for the money.

you making the false assumptions that only guitar gods of the 70s cared about the music. that just isn't true; you don't have to be a virtuoso to care about the music. and those same guitar gods made a LOT of money back in their heyday, so you can't assume they didn't at least feel a little bit of the temptation of being a 70s "rock star."

most of today's great bands who "care about the music" don't do it for money because there is no money; its all going to the divas and corporate acts. they barely survive just through the benefit of playing small venues and circuits around the country, a practice virtually invented in the late 70s by the 1st wave punk scene.

aside from that, you left out pretty much everything that made the 80s and 90s so important to the continuing development of music. i'll admit, since good music went underground most people don't know where to look, but that's why i posted this stuff. why don't you read MY posts and learn something new.



also, as an example for reviewing these songs, people should write a little blurb like,

"i used my file share service to download the dinosaur jr. song freak scene, and i felt that, while it was a little too heavy and noisy for my tastes, the solo at the end was great, and i could really relate to j mascis' lyrics."

or

"i listened to the godspeed you black emperor song 'storm,' and i must say i'm very impressed. its very long and has multiple sections/movements, so fans of dream theater and yes will definately appreciate this. its cool that half of the bands' 9 members play classical instruments like violins. despite not having any conventional lyrics, the song survives on tape effects and lengthy guitar and string passages. great stuff."

i know it takes effort, but this really helps people out.

[mrmylo]

1st - "rap' is NOT music. its a modern version of the beat poetry that came around in the 50's,I dont like beat poetry either. the fact is that 90% of rap artists dont even play an instrument or know who to compose any kind of music. rapping over samples and pre-recorded music takes virtually no talent other than the ability to rhyme....big deal.

2nd - there are VERY few newer bands that have much talent. this is obvious when you see them play live. sure,in the studio you can try for days and multiple takes to get that one great performance of your music,but if you cant execute it live,your a hack. a little known secret of todays music is that a LOT of bands use studio musicians to do their stuff in the studio,which is a big part of why they suck live,this is mostly true of the 'corporate' label bands,but it does happen in the 'underground' also.

there seems to be a general mentality in the underground,that the "garage" sound has more integrity. people who actually practice their craft and are able to execute whatever their chosen form of expression is are the people who deserve kudos. these bands like modest mouse (possibly the WORST band I have ever seen live) and franz ferdinand are prime examples of people who couldnt play their way out of a barrel if their life depended on it. you dont have to be a virtuoso,just have some kind of clue as to what you are doing on your instrument to not sound like a bumbling fool. many dont.

there are some good bands out there that are new on the scene,but you rarely hear about them. some have been around for some time,but are still playing smaller venues and cruising below the 'hip' radar.

the reality is,there IS a general lack of talent in the musician pool these days. and VERY few bands that play with or convey any kind of emotion.
there is better music on the local level nowdays than on the national.
unfortunatly,due to circumstanes like economics,family dynamics,and a general lack of desire by people to support the locals,many of these great bands end up parting ways. and that lack of support also causes venues to close because they cant stay in bussiness when YOU wont get off your lazy ass to go see shows. :banghead:

did I forget to mention rap isnt music? :D

anyway,thats my 2 cents. dont like it? too fuckin bad. I dont give a damn.

[Sucrose]

that's because you are misinformed. :D :D :D

my guess is that most people just forgot what to look for (or in the case of the 15,000 15-year olds on here, never learned in the first place) :icon_rofl


You completely ignored the entire rest of my post. Please reconcile my statements if you want me to take you seriously.

[Deathw1sh]

you making the false assumptions that only guitar gods of the 70s cared about the music. that just isn't true; you don't have to be a virtuoso to care about the music. and those same guitar gods made a LOT of money back in their heyday, so you can't assume they didn't at least feel a little bit of the temptation of being a 70s "rock star."

most of today's great bands who "care about the music" don't do it for money because there is no money; its all going to the divas and corporate acts. they barely survive just through the benefit of playing small venues and circuits around the country, a practice virtually invented in the late 70s by the 1st wave punk scene.

aside from that, you left out pretty much everything that made the 80s and 90s so important to the continuing development of music. i'll admit, since good music went underground most people don't know where to look, but that's why i posted this stuff. why don't you read MY posts and learn something new.



also, as an example for reviewing these songs, people should write a little blurb like,

"i used my file share service to download the dinosaur jr. song freak scene, and i felt that, while it was a little too heavy and noisy for my tastes, the solo at the end was great, and i could really relate to j mascis' lyrics."

or

"i listened to the godspeed you black emperor song 'storm,' and i must say i'm very impressed. its very long and has multiple sections/movements, so fans of dream theater and yes will definately appreciate this. its cool that half of the bands' 9 members play classical instruments like violins. despite not having any conventional lyrics, the song survives on tape effects and lengthy guitar and string passages. great stuff."

i know it takes effort, but this really helps people out.
Did you read the second word in my post? I'm talking about the mainstream music industry... I know all the integrity moved underground, that's what I was talking about.

[( ((hoBodav)) )]

You completely ignored the entire rest of my post. Please reconcile my statements if you want me to take you seriously.

i'm sorry if i'm a little mean here. i don't know what you mean by reconcile but i guess you mean reconsider.

basically, this thread is about me suggesting bands that ebaumers should listen to, and then those ebaumers listen to them and post their thoughts.

here's what you have done:

1) not listened to the bands :insane:

2) basically told me i don't know what i'm talking about :insane:

well, if you haven't listened to them, how do you know for sure that i don't know what i'm talking about? if you don't want to listen to them, fine, just don't participate in the thread. i care about what you think of the music, and if you don't download anything to listen to then i don't really give a shit what you think.

there is better music on the local level nowdays than on the national.
unfortunatly,due to circumstanes like economics,family dynamics,and a general lack of desire by people to support the locals,many of these great bands end up parting ways. and that lack of support also causes venues to close because they cant stay in bussiness when YOU wont get off your lazy ass to go see shows.

i agree whole-heartedly.

1st - "rap' is NOT music. its a modern version of the beat poetry that came around in the 50's,I dont like beat poetry either. the fact is that 90% of rap artists dont even play an instrument or know who to compose any kind of music. rapping over samples and pre-recorded music takes virtually no talent other than the ability to rhyme....big deal.

yep. and that's exactly why i'm advocating the other 10%. and even if the others don't have any talent other than rhyming, what a talent that is! rapping is hard to do, i for one can't coordinate my brain and mouth the way people like twista can... calling rappers talentless is like saying bobby mcferrin is a hack because all he does is create sounds with his mouth. that's like saying thom yorke is worthless because all he does in radiohead is sing.

you have to understand that different cultures emphasize different things to be proud of... sure there's a lot of bullshit out there like g-unit, but rap is a mentality that basically came from the inner city slums. its something that belongs solely to that particular culture, and whiggers and haters will never understand this unless they expand their minds past their limited middle-class white suburban worlds.

there seems to be a general mentality in the underground,that the "garage" sound has more integrity. people who actually practice their craft and are able to execute whatever their chosen form of expression is are the people who deserve kudos. these bands like modest mouse (possibly the WORST band I have ever seen live) and franz ferdinand are prime examples of people who couldnt play their way out of a barrel if their life depended on it. you dont have to be a virtuoso,just have some kind of clue as to what you are doing on your instrument to not sound like a bumbling fool. many dont.

modest mouse was great when i saw them... many people say their shows could go either way, BUT: you know, they started out as a local, underground band too, and they definately wouldn't have survived the past ten years doing the local circuit if they were shitty.

you're also saying that many modern bands don't play their own instruments. very true, but NONE of the bands i listed do that. they write their own music, they play their own instruments. to expect any less than that would be an insult to my music collection.

Did you read the second word in my post? I'm talking about the mainstream music industry... I know all the integrity moved underground, that's what I was talking about.

i know, but i'm not making any sort of differentiation here between mainstream and underground. a band is what it is, good or bad, and that's all i care about. sorry if i was too harsh though. :)

[Deathw1sh]

yea, I refer to bands individually... of course there were bands in the 70s about the money, and of course there are bands today with lots of musical integrity, but generally speaking, there was noticeably more integrity back then in the mainstream than there is no, and generally speaking, most of the integrity in music today lies in the underground scene. You and I both know that, no reason to argue. ;)

[lameassdude]

....It's been the same shit, so repetitive every generation, every 10 years there are a handful of good bands. So far in the 2000's I have seen a few; The Hives, The Strokes, The Distillers...there's more I'm not thinking of. And I mean everyone's making a big deal, I was making a big deal, and is there really a need? no, because nothing is going to change.

[banjo1735]

2) basically told me i don't know what i'm talking about :insane:

What? Most people here agree to a point. You may have said somethings that you yourself had no rights to. Being harsh is another way for you to say "If you don't agree, shut up." That is much worse than just saying "Rap is shit" and allowing argument.


well, if you haven't listened to them, how do you know for sure that i don't know what i'm talking about? if you don't want to listen to them, fine, just don't participate in the thread. i care about what you think of the music, and if you don't download anything to listen to then i don't really give a shit what you think.


If you don't give a shit what we think, maybe we shouldn't listen to you, since you obviously don't listen to the bands that we may recommend. I don't believe you ever asked for any bands for us to tell you, so why the hell do we need to listen to your music? I'm too tired right now to think on both sides, so I hope someone agrees.

[Sezril]

rec·on·cile
v. rec·on·ciled, rec·on·cil·ing, rec·on·ciles
v. tr.

1. To reestablish a close relationship between.
2. To settle or resolve.
3. To bring (oneself) to accept: He finally reconciled himself to the change in management.
4. To make compatible or consistent: reconcile my way of thinking with yours.

[loose cannon]

hoBodav is the only person on this board who makes sense! Wilco rules!

[Sucrose]

rec·on·cile
v. rec·on·ciled, rec·on·cil·ing, rec·on·ciles
v. tr.

1. To reestablish a close relationship between.
2. To settle or resolve.
3. To bring (oneself) to accept: He finally reconciled himself to the change in management.
4. To make compatible or consistent: reconcile my way of thinking with yours.

Precisely, thank you Sezril, the second one.

[Travmire]

I like old and new bands. I don't have a real interest in rap though, it just isn't for me. I won't bash it, I am sure it is popular for a reason, but I just care for it.

For people that are saying old is better than new, think about this. How many old bands are there that are good? 10-30? In my opinion there are 10-30 good bands today. There is a lot of crap now, I'll admit that, but I'm sure that if you think about it there was a lot of crap back in the 70's.

Also, saying today's music sucks because you don't like rap is like saying I don't like the older music because I don't like Disco.