I may be obtuse, but who the hell cares about Terri Schiavo?

[Viceroy]

Why in the hell does this constitute such a big news item?

My understanding is that this woman has severe mental and physical problems, to the point that she's little more than a turnip, being kept alive entirely by machines. Now what are we disputing? Whether or not we should turn those machines off? Is that what all this is about?

This is one person, for god's sake...

Someone better do the "math" for me on this one because I'm tired of reading CNN and FOX webpages when they can find nothing better to report than this stupid rubbish.

[beattie]

The feeding tubes have been out for a week. She is dying. It's over. People are making a big deal out of this because they are bored and need something to protest about.

[gog2rino]

Thank you! Finally someone else realizes that we shouldn't care about this stupid shit. It's one person's life, and we should let this family handle their own business and get on with the mundane idiocy we call our lives.

[reigenborn]

I'm tired of reading CNN and FOX webpages when they can find nothing better to report than this stupid rubbish.
Let alone threads on Ebaumsworld Forum.....

I whole-heartedly agree with you. I seriously don't give two shits. If I was forced to choose, I'd say pull the plug, she asked her husband to do that.

[Devastation]

I agree. (Wow, a conservative agrees with Viceroy.)

Why the fuck do I care?

[gigatonblast]

Why in the hell does this constitute such a big news item?

My understanding is that this woman has severe mental and physical problems, to the point that she's little more than a turnip, being kept alive entirely by machines. Now what are we disputing? Whether or not we should turn those machines off? Is that what all this is about?

This is one person, for god's sake...

Someone better do the "math" for me on this one because I'm tired of reading CNN and FOX webpages when they can find nothing better to report than this stupid rubbish.


Well my little British buddy.

Do you see the part I highlighted ?
Thats WRONG !
Shes ONLY and I repeat ONLYon a feeding tube.
No machines are keeping her alive.....

I feel a thread coming on cuz...I feel I'm the loan memeber who can and will put this all into some sort of perspective.

[beattie]

Well my little British buddy.

Do you see the part I highlighted ?
Thats WRONG !
Shes ONLY and I repeat ONLYon a feeding tube.
No machines are keeping her alive.....

I feel a thread coming on cuz...I feel I'm the loan memeber who can and will put this all into some sort of perspective.
she can only do involuntary things. She is basically dead. Her brain is gone except for the part of the brain that makes her do involuntary things like blink. Why would you keep her alive? Let her REST IN PEACE.

[/Tilt/]

Its big because its a conflict we've never seen before. It shouldnt be big, but people like my mother feed the media, and the media thrives on it.

[Dominator]

This is a death or vegtebale situation what are you talking about this is extremely important to everyone lol

[Devastation]

This is a death or vegtebale situation what are you talking about this is extremely important to everyone lol
Don't bother to post if you can't post like an adult.
This is a death or vegetable situation.
What are you talking about?
This is extremely important to everyone!
:lol:
If you must throw in a "lol" at the end of a sentence, do everybody a favor and click on the stupid emoticon, and only click it once.

[kevinsmith]

Why in the hell does this constitute such a big news item?

My understanding is that this woman has severe mental and physical problems, to the point that she's little more than a turnip, being kept alive entirely by machines.


I object and am offended by your use of the word "turnip" in this situation. I'm thinking more of a brussel sprout.
I'm so going to hell....

Anyway, who was it that said something to the effect that 100 peopel dead is a statistic, one person dead is a tradgedy? I can't realy remember the exact quote, and I'm not going to take the time to research it because that would be too much like work on a Saturday. Seriously though, it's news because it is reflective of a larger issue, that being euthenasia. Just like the Roe v. Wade case back in the 70's (or was it 60's?). One case isn't news, unless it sets a precedent for all future cases like it. That's why it's such a big deal.

[Maverick]

Vice, I think the real story here is the fight for custody. There have been years of presedance where the spouce makes the decision where there is no living will. Her parents were fighting that and that is why they lost. No judge wanted to be the judge that opened that pandora's box.

[Ace Hippie]

That was Stalin

One death is a tragedy; a million is a statistic.

I posted something similar in another thread, but I can't find it, so I'll try to approximate it. I, personally, do not care about the individual case; I think it's sad, maybe even tragic, but that terrible stuff happens everyday to a lot of people who do not have the benefit of having a public outcry on their behalf.

That being said, the intervention of the federal government is what has me intrigued, because it brings up other issues. Was that intervention correct? Is there some inherent right to die or, conversely, a responsibility to keep someone alive?

It would have been better to have let her die, in my opinion, but now that it has gotten this big, it could easily be used as precedent for some time. That makes it important.

[Zantutsuken]

I suggest you get used to a repetitive story day in and day out, soon as Terri goes from the headlines it'll all be about Michael Jackson's trial. If I feel sorry for anyone it's people with Alzheimer's, the constant repetition of the same headline over-and-over must give them the false belief that they're getting better with their condition.

[Joe the show]

i saw pics of over a 100 people outside holding a bunch of signs saying Don't murder her or save terry schiavo!!

i just want to kill those people.

let the girl die.

[wataba]

I turned on the news yesterday and it almost seems all the networks have become 24/7 Terri Schaivo channels. I wonder if anything else of significance has happened this week, or if the rest of the world just took a week off.

And this really can't be that uncommon of a thing, why is this getting so much more national attention than others.

[droogsteve]

Vice, I think the real story here is the fight for custody.


No, the real story is our federal government wildly overstepping it's constitutional authority to pander to religious fanatics.

[American Infidel]

Aside from the "religeous fanatics", this is just plain unethical and wrong.

I love how you people can say, "She can't feel anything, she don't know she's starving, she don't think, etc."

How the hell do you know how she feels? How do you know exactly what's going on in her head? For all we know, she's completely aware of her surroundings.

Hell, we should've starved Christopher Reeves and Stephen Hawking. The only difference between them and Shiavo is they were able to prove they were aware of their surroundings. Nothing more.

If a warden decided to starve rapists and murderers in prison, he'd be charged with murder. Yet, we let -cheer, even- a helpless and innocent woman starve to death in the name of all that's fair and correct in this great nation of ours.

You make me sick.

[Chewy]

No, the real story is our federal government wildly overstepping it's constitutional authority to pander to religious fanatics.
Bingo!
Bottom line is it's a family matter.

[jn_powell]

How the hell do you know how she feels? How do you know exactly what's going on in her head?
Sorry Heather I have to disagree. We do know what is not in her head, nd that is alarge portion of her brain. The part that allows her to be aware of what is going on around her.
Hell, we should've starved Christopher Reeves and Stephen Hawking. The only difference between them and Shiavo is they were able to prove they were aware of their surroundings. Nothing more.
That is not even close to being a valid comparison, neither one of them had serious brain damage.
You make me sick.
You want some NyQuil?

EDIT: Why in the hell do we have 4 threads on this topic?

[dead]

Aside from the "religeous fanatics", this is just plain unethical and wrong.

I love how you people can say, "She can't feel anything, she don't know she's starving, she don't think, etc."

How the hell do you know how she feels? How do you know exactly what's going on in her head? For all we know, she's completely aware of her surroundings.

Hell, we should've starved Christopher Reeves and Stephen Hawking. The only difference between them and Shiavo is they were able to prove they were aware of their surroundings. Nothing more.

If a warden decided to starve rapists and murderers in prison, he'd be charged with murder. Yet, we let -cheer, even- a helpless and innocent woman starve to death in the name of all that's fair and correct in this great nation of ours.

You make me sick.
lol yeah sure there is just a small difference between chiavo and stephen hawking ;)
i wonder have you seen the xray photo ?

[sleepinglate]

Why in the hell does this constitute such a big news item?

My understanding is that this woman has severe mental and physical problems, to the point that she's little more than a turnip, being kept alive entirely by machines. Now what are we disputing? Whether or not we should turn those machines off? Is that what all this is about?

This is one person, for god's sake...

Someone better do the "math" for me on this one because I'm tired of reading CNN and FOX webpages when they can find nothing better to report than this stupid rubbish.

You're so right - this is a ridiculous battle that needs to be left to private debate and, maximum, to the courts to make findings based on facts. As someone said above, it's a federalism issue. There's no way that our government structure allows the federal government to determine court matters, esp. related to the family.

But of course Dubbya would allow this to happen, since it's what got him elected in the first place - ignoring the balance of powers between the executive, legislative and judicial branches of the govt.

For me and I think many others, it's about the religious fanatics who are taking over the US political agenda.

I saw an excellent BBC World report on the US, a British reporter who'd been stationed in DC for years and was leaving, giving his impressions. ITA with what he said. He said the country has always been divided between those who went there for religious asylum and freedom and those who went there for political asylum and freedom, and this divide continues today.

Read the bloody constitution, people. The 1st Amendment gives us the right to freely establish and to freely exercise our religion. There's a reason it doesn't say we have an official religion - to avoid religious persecution. You leave me alone in my beliefs, and I respect yours. It's simple.

When people from other countries ask me what the US is thinking with its policy regarding the near east, I usually say that the US has as much of a religion problem as the Muslim countries do.

In many ways, because of geography and population, the US is a world of its own and it can be difficult to understand these things from the outside. I'm from there and I live abroad, and sometimes I hear things and I have to ask my family "what's the deal?" because if you're not living in the media barrage in the US borders, it can be hard to understand even when it's your country.

[Kenyan]

The only reason they ( news stations) are covering so insanely much the terry shcivaco thing and Micheal Jackson is because "real news" is too depressing. Why cover the sad and horriffic stuff happening in Sudan when you can have the whole US focused on one lady?

Its just rating, Terry= good rating, it is a debateable topic
Sudan ( Darfur massacare)= bad rating, everyone know that thousands are dieing and who wants to hear about something that affects people lives??


Hope my point made sense. I kinda wish u would die already, then the whole media frenzie might go to something else/ better.

[mullenisahippie]

What if she happens to die tommorow on Easter? Don't you think that would freak out the Christian protesters real bad?

[jn_powell]

What if she happens to die tommorow on Easter? Don't you think that would freak out the Christian protesters real bad?
I bet it would freak them out even more if, in 3 days, she rises from the dead.

[mullenisahippie]

I bet it would freak them out even more if, in 3 days, she rises from the dead.Haha, yes, they will find her half alive out in some cabbage patch. Just wait till you see drawings of Terry being crucified, they did for the last person I remember being compared to Jesus, and that was Tupac.

[kevinsmith]

Aside from the "religeous fanatics", this is just plain unethical and wrong.

I love how you people can say, "She can't feel anything, she don't know she's starving, she don't think, etc."

How the hell do you know how she feels? How do you know exactly what's going on in her head? For all we know, she's completely aware of her surroundings.

Hell, we should've starved Christopher Reeves and Stephen Hawking. The only difference between them and Shiavo is they were able to prove they were aware of their surroundings. Nothing more.

If a warden decided to starve rapists and murderers in prison, he'd be charged with murder. Yet, we let -cheer, even- a helpless and innocent woman starve to death in the name of all that's fair and correct in this great nation of ours.

You make me sick.


Heather, for the first time I think since I've joined this board, I disagree with you. You're argument above, and the similar arguments coming from "compassionate" conservatives everywhere is just like what the right accuses the left of doing every other time, and that's abandoning logic and solely using emotion to try to drive a point home and to win people to your side. I've had to stop listening to Hannity's radio show this past week because he is doing the exact same thing on this issue that he bitched so much about the libby's doing during the election. Steve Hawking is a BRILLIANT physicist...and I'll bet MRI's and the like of him would show parts of the brain working away that are completely inactive on Schiavo. And just to throw this one out there....let's say she IS mentally aware, completely there trapped inside her body. How fucking nuts do you think you would go if you had all of your mental faculties, but couldn't express them at all, leading people to think you are a vegetable? I think after 15 years, I would be a freaking psycho...I don't know about you. I know I wouldn't want to live. But then again, I must be a bad republican...I'm not compassionate enough I guess....cause as good republicans, we should value life so much that we would rather someone live life wracked with pain, or worse, then let them die with dignity and in peace.

Sorry...hope you don't hate me. :)

[jn_powell]

Heather, for the first time I think since I've joined this board, I disagree with you. You're argument above, and the similar arguments coming from "compassionate" conservatives everywhere is just like what the right accuses the left of doing every other time, and that's abandoning logic and solely using emotion to try to drive a point home and to win people to your side. I've had to stop listening to Hannity's radio show this past week because he is doing the exact same thing on this issue that he bitched so much about the libby's doing during the election. Steve Hawking is a BRILLIANT physicist...and I'll bet MRI's and the like of him would show parts of the brain working away that are completely inactive on Schiavo. And just to throw this one out there....let's say she IS mentally aware, completely there trapped inside her body. How fucking nuts do you think you would go if you had all of your mental faculties, but couldn't express them at all, leading people to think you are a vegetable? I think after 15 years, I would be a freaking psycho...I don't know about you. I know I wouldn't want to live. But then again, I must be a bad republican...I'm not compassionate enough I guess....cause as good republicans, we should value life so much that we would rather someone live life wracked with pain, or worse, then let them die with dignity and in peace.

Sorry...hope you don't hate me. :)
Snoogins you tubby bitch. :D I would not worry about it, Heather seems to be the type to respect our opinions and not hate us for them.

[kevinsmith]

Snoogins you tubby bitch. :D I would not worry about it, Heather seems to be the type to respect our opinions and not hate us for them.

Bonnnnng!


Yeah, he seems pretty cool, but I don't like to alienate the few people who normally agree with me! lol.

[jn_powell]

Bonnnnng!


Yeah, he seems pretty cool, but I don't like to alienate the few people who normally agree with me! lol.
Yeah the 3 or 4 of us gotta stick together. And oh yeah, "We got about 5 minutes to live....you said you'd do me." :D

[Devastation]

I love you guys.

[sleepinglate]

Re her medical state, according to experts, good article in today's online New York Times at: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/26/health/26brain.html?, that I've excerpted:

Schiavo's Condition Holds Little Chance of Recovery
By BENEDICT CAREY and JOHN SCHWARTZ
While a few neurologists say it is possible she has been misdiagnosed, an overwhelming majority say there is little room for disagreement. Patients who have suffered brain damage from oxygen deprivation - like Ms. Schiavo, whose heart briefly stopped in February 1990 - almost never recover if they have remained in a vegetative state for more than three months. Most neurologists who have examined Ms. Schiavo say she has been in a vegetative state for about 15 years.

Dr. Ronald Cranford, a Minnesota neurologist who examined her in 2002 as part of a previous court case, said a CT scan of her brain showed very little but scar tissue and spinal fluid. An electroencephalogram measuring electrical activity in the thinking parts of her brain showed no evidence of continued function, he said.

"It's totally flat - nothing," Dr. Cranford said, "and this is very unusual. The vast majority of people in a persistent vegetative state show about 5 percent of normal brain activity."


I thought that explained it well. Hope this clears up any doubts. And you know, I've stopped understanding why I'm so into this, too.

And loved your comments about Easter and Resurrection - thought the same thing, but you said it better.

[carnage]

Take a look at this and ask yourself if she should be starved to death.
http://web.tampabay.rr.com/ccb/videos/hows_that_cold.rm
Me personaly I think she recognises her mum and responds with a smile. I don't think she should be killed. If it keeps her parents happy then who gives a fuck.

[jn_powell]

Take a look at this and ask yourself if she should be starved to death.
http://web.tampabay.rr.com/ccb/videos/hows_that_cold.rm
Me personaly I think she recognises her mum and responds with a smile. I don't think she should be killed. If it keeps her parents happy then who gives a fuck.
All she does is mumble bro. They also have been known to record for hours upon hours just to get a 30 second clip that makes it look like she responds all the time. That is also from like 3 years ago or something. The reason I give a fuck is because I personally would not want to live like that, as recent polls show I feel the same as roughly 90 percent of those polled.

[kevinsmith]

You know, Carnage actually has a point here. While I've been focusing on the "bigger picture" of this case, its implications, precedents and so forth, I've ignored the actual case itself. Why DOESN'T the husband just give up his "custody" for lack of a better word and let the parents go broke keeping her in the hospice. He must have SOME financial boon coming his way when she dies...now granted, five bucks says the parents will sue to keep him from getting any of it. But still, that's the only thing I can think of.

[jn_powell]

You know, Carnage actually has a point here. While I've been focusing on the "bigger picture" of this case, its implications, precedents and so forth, I've ignored the actual case itself. Why DOESN'T the husband just give up his "custody" for lack of a better word and let the parents go broke keeping her in the hospice. He must have SOME financial boon coming his way when she dies...now granted, five bucks says the parents will sue to keep him from getting any of it. But still, that's the only thing I can think of.
Truthfully, I think it is because he wants to do what she would have wanted and let her go without living like this for the rest of her "life". I put life in quotes because she really does not have much of one. I have pointed this out numerous times, and if you would like I can post a link, but this man turned down a million dollars to walk away clean and free, presumably because he wants what is best for his wife.

[Jay-Z]

Go here for lots of info on the case:
http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html

[mx6driven]

You know, Carnage actually has a point here. While I've been focusing on the "bigger picture" of this case, its implications, precedents and so forth, I've ignored the actual case itself. Why DOESN'T the husband just give up his "custody" for lack of a better word and let the parents go broke keeping her in the hospice. He must have SOME financial boon coming his way when she dies...now granted, five bucks says the parents will sue to keep him from getting any of it. But still, that's the only thing I can think of.

Im tired of people saying he aint getting money cuz he is when she dies. her treatment does not go for million upon million upon million of dollars. they have 30 mill dollars for her treatment and when shes gone, nigga gets the rest of wut is left of it. gosh 4 threads on this.

[jn_powell]

Im tired of people saying he aint getting money cuz he is when she dies. her treatment does not go for million upon million upon million of dollars. they have 30 mill dollars for her treatment and when shes gone, nigga gets the rest of wut is left of it. gosh 4 threads on this.
I am not quite sure where you are getting that bullshit information, but that is exactly what it is.
PINELLAS PARK -- As the battle over Terri Schiavo's life rages, the 41-year-old brain-damaged woman lies in a hospice bed, dependent on the institution's charity and Florida taxpayers for her care.

The $1-million received by her and her husband, Michael, in a medical malpractice case in 1993 is nearly gone, attorneys say, spent on her care and the husband's legal quest over the past seven years to stop her artificial feedings so she can die.

Her parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, want to keep her alive and accuse her husband of wanting Terri dead so he could inherit what was left from the malpractice award. Michael Schiavo has said the rift between him and his in-laws began because he refused to share with them part of the money he received from that award.
But the reality is that hardly anybody is getting paid anymore.

Michael Schiavo's attorneys say they have not been paid in more than two years. Schindler attorney David Gibbs III said he is working for free, although an anti-abortion group, Life Legal Defense Foundation, has paid some of his expenses.

Just $40,000 to $50,000 remains of the money won in the malpractice case after Terri's heart stopped in 1990 and left her in what court-appointed doctors say is a persistent vegetative state. Deborah Bushnell, one of Michael Schiavo's attorneys, said the money is being saved for legal expenses. It is held in a trust fund, and a judge approves all expenditures, from attorneys' fees to the woman's haircuts.

Terri lives at the Woodside Hospice - part of a not-for-profit hospice network in Florida - among terminally ill patients. She is permitted to stay there for free because she is considered indigent, Bushnell said. Patients who can afford it pay roughly $80,000 a year to stay at the hospice.

Terri Schiavo's medical costs - which Bushnell says are relatively small - have been paid for the past couple of years by the state's Medicaid program for needy people.
source (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/3/17/171335.shtml)

[Dominator]

Don't bother to post if you can't post like an adult.

If you must throw in a "lol" at the end of a sentence, do everybody a favor and click on the stupid emoticon, and only click it once.
What is that suppose to mean? I was saying it doesn't make a diffrence what happens either way the turnout isn't going to be good. I was laughing at the people who think this is the most important thing happening in the world and continue to make a huge deal about it.

[Devastation]

What is that suppose to mean? I was saying it doesn't make a diffrence what happens either way the turnout isn't going to be good. I was laughing at the people who think this is the most important thing happening in the world and continue to make a huge deal about it.
What I mean is:

Don't make yourself look like a three-year-old bashing a keyboard when you post.

The English Language has punctuation marks and grammar rules for a reason.

[biggy]

I am not quite sure where you are getting that bullshit information, but that is exactly what it is.

source (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/3/17/171335.shtml)


People are getting this bullshit information from reading other forums on pro-Terri websites The Terri Schiavo has a ton of made up shit as if Michael is going get rich from her death. He has admitted to be offered up to 10 million dollars from turning over custody during his interview on ABC news. He indicated that none of this was ever about money. He's doing it because he still loves her and she would never want to continue living this way.

[Dominator]

What I mean is:

Don't make yourself look like a three-year-old bashing a keyboard when you post.

The English Language has punctuation marks and grammar rules for a reason.
I don't think a period is neccessary after a one sentence post

[Devastation]

I don't think a period is neccessary after a one sentence post
Well, you'd be wrong.

[kevinsmith]

People are getting this bullshit information from reading other forums on pro-Terri websites The Terri Schiavo has a ton of made up shit as if Michael is going get rich from her death. He has admitted to be offered up to 10 million dollars from turning over custody during his interview on ABC news. He indicated that none of this was ever about money. He's doing it because he still loves her and she would never want to continue living this way.


Okay, I've been on the pro-euthenasia side of things here, but if he still loves her, how come he has two kids with another woman since then. He may still CARE, but still LOVES, I'm not so sure.
Honestly, I don't know if there is any way we can subjectively debate many aspects of this, wether he cares or if he doesn't, if the parents are in complete denial or not, because unless we were actually there living it, we can't say for sure as there is so much crap being spewed from both sides. From now on, I'm sticking to the bigger picture...this case itself is too much of a mess.

[Dominator]

Well, you'd be wrong.
Why do you want to argue over a period so badly?

[biggy]

Okay, I've been on the pro-euthenasia side of things here, but if he still loves her, how come he has two kids with another woman since then. He may still CARE, but still LOVES, I'm not so sure.



Remember that she was diagnosed 7 years ago of never recovering and be in PVS forever. Anyone that says "doctors can't say for sure" are absolutely kidding themselves.

Normally, the part of brain in that controls eating drinking awareness, etc has activity in PVS but it is low. Terri has 0 activity. That's why doctors for Terri's parents look at 3 year old pictures and say "she looks like she has activity". Doctors in 2003 have indicted there is no upper (I think it's upper) brain activity.

Having said that, Michael moved on with his life as anyone else would have.

[KakUMei]

I agree with the descision to let her die.

I however do NOT agree with the descision to let her die of starvation.

I mean comon, just inject her with something so if she DOES feel anything she wont have to suffer.

[Devastation]

Why do you want to argue over a period so badly?
I don't.

I merely corrected your post, and you started an argument.

[Dominator]

Why did you even have to make a post about it in the first place your basicaly hijacking a thread when you could have sent a PM? How does not putting a period after a sentence long post make it harder to read? Calling someone a three-year-old is not a correction.

[JokingClown]

50,000 children die every day, a large percentage of them starve to death.

We shouldnt really care all THAT much about ONE woman who will never live a normal life (its impossible, her brain is liquid)

[Kommercial]

Personally, I'm not going to go far into this debate, but was all for her living, but now that her feeding tube has been pulled, go ahead and let her rest.

My view, after seeing video footage of her the last couple weeks, I've even been swaying more to the "Pro-Life" side of things. There is footage of her laughing when her father is telling a joke about her mom, she's crying, smiling. She has a complete sense of who is in the room, even speaking to her.

No, she can't do anything on her own, but who are we to judge whether she would want to live or die. I'm sorry, but no one man should have that right, especially when Michael has started a new life, and there has been "heresay" that he has said things like "She's such a strap down, I wish she would just die!" to his friends. He's got a full family, with two kids, and is engaged to be married. He doesn't want the money he's been offered to give up guardianship because if he accepts, he doesn't have movie rights. He'll make more money making a movie out of this than anything he'll recieve right now. If he signs over his rights, he has no movie rights. I think he's just greedy.

Either way, we might as well say she's gone, but just keep in mind, none of us know exactly what she is going through. She may be suffering, she may not, she may want to live, she may not, but either way, I'm glad she'll get to rest in peace.

[mx6driven]

too tired to post sources but i think so far everything I have said I have posted a source to it. all in money, violence, something up sleeves,religion, free excersise clauses and all. the 30 million dollar is something i read somewhere in the newspaper that he would get once she is gone of what is left of the treatment money. euthanizing her is illegal in florida, starving her is legal tho. I mean I am a optomistic person, i feel if she were to live maybe something could happene to make her better. I mean Pat Boones son was in worse shape and he's still recovering, hes not 100% but he's better than from the start. The Terry Schiavo thing I think there should be a rapid way of letting her go. Remember she was a devout catholic who was active in church, no matter what she is suppose to live and die naturally, she is not living on a machine, she needs help eating. This is an absolute dishonor and breaking of one of our amendment/rights. We ahve the Free Excersise Clause where we can practice our religion to the full extent of not using anything illegal, congress is not letting her use her right of what she was before this state. Jesus suffered so much before he died and maybe this is a test from god for her. Yes I beliueve in Jesus but not that religious. I am not using this to change any of you guys. I am mentioning Jesus and her religion becuase this is what she had studied and known before she got into this state of life and she has to go with is and fufill it.

But I am mostly into getting to know her husband. HE IS A DICKHEAD!! Yes some people are gonna say Your Pro Terry blah blah blah, fuck that, think wut u want. I dont like this guy period and there are MANY indications of it. Any guy who moves on with another woman in 4 years after an accident is a dick (through thick and thin and till death do us part, guess that guy lied in his part to be in the family, Bernie Mack would kick his ass). A guy certified to give CPR and doesnt give it is a dick. A guy who says "when is that bitch gonna die" is a dick. A guy known for being a powerful headhold guy who abuses/abused women is a dick. A guy who doesnt let her get her final testament (whatever its called when a priest prays for u one last time) and doesnt let the priest in the hospital room is a dick.

I smell something fishy and its not JN's cologne

[TheTechnician]

her final testament lmao........last rights maybe??? :lol:

[jn_powell]

Personally, I'm not going to go far into this debate, but was all for her living, but now that her feeding tube has been pulled, go ahead and let her rest.

My view, after seeing video footage of her the last couple weeks, I've even been swaying more to the "Pro-Life" side of things. There is footage of her laughing when her father is telling a joke about her mom, she's crying, smiling. She has a complete sense of who is in the room, even speaking to her.

No, she can't do anything on her own, but who are we to judge whether she would want to live or die. I'm sorry, but no one man should have that right, especially when Michael has started a new life, and there has been "heresay" that he has said things like "She's such a strap down, I wish she would just die!" to his friends. He's got a full family, with two kids, and is engaged to be married. He doesn't want the money he's been offered to give up guardianship because if he accepts, he doesn't have movie rights. He'll make more money making a movie out of this than anything he'll recieve right now. If he signs over his rights, he has no movie rights. I think he's just greedy.

Either way, we might as well say she's gone, but just keep in mind, none of us know exactly what she is going through. She may be suffering, she may not, she may want to live, she may not, but either way, I'm glad she'll get to rest in peace.
Look pal, when he turned down those offers, this case was not anywhere near as big as it is now and a movie deal was not something I imagine was on his mind. As for he smiling and laughing at those talking to her, it is amaznig what you can do when you videotape for hours doing the same thing over and over until you get the response you want. This woman has no cerebral cortex, she is laughing as an involuntary response. And by the way, those videos are years old because they will not let anyone take new pictures or videos for something like 2 or 3 years now. I wonder why that is?

[mx6driven]

And by the way, those videos are years old because they will not let anyone take new pictures or videos for something like 2 or 3 years now. I wonder why that is?

Right to privacy bro.

anyways that was 2 or 3 years ago, her brain was MUCH better at this time, this could have shown that her responces were better, not trying and tying over and over again. But now her head is prolly more messed up by the lack of energy produced to her brain by food. this is just bad, i just think its horrible how she is dying. She would be going through pain if it wasnt for the morphine. U might say she isnt feeling pain but when a woman still moans and blinks and breathes on her own im pretty sure her sensories of feeling is still working also

[TheTechnician]

im just sick of seeing her crippled fucking braindead body on TV every three seconds...its disgusting and annoying.

[American Infidel]

That's the whole problem with you people. You've been desensitised to it because of the publicity.

If the case wasn't national news, somebody would post:

Brain-Damaged Woman in Florida Ordered Starved to Death. Dies 9 Days Later of Dehydration and Starvation, Remeniscent of Hitler's Victims of Concentraion Camps, as Husband Rejoices With Girlfriend.

Then, we would all be responding, by saying:

OMG...those asshole judges should be starved. How can they let an innocent woman die that way? :shout: Death to Michael Shaivo and his lawyers!!! OMG!!!

No different than a post I saw about the tsunami victims, saying "Meh, They're Just Brown People".

What if that was your daughter?

I know what I'd do. And the majority of you would do the same. Or at least I'd hope so. By all that is humane, I hope so.

Of course it doesn't matter now. Terri is now beyond the point of saving, anyway. Her precarious state has now been compromised by the lack of sustenance for so long, she'll never recover.

God bless America.

[Zantutsuken]

Right to privacy bro.

anyways that was 2 or 3 years ago, her brain was MUCH better at this time, this could have
shown that her responces were better, not trying and tying over and over again. But now her
head is prolly more messed up by the lack of energy produced to her brain by food. this is just
bad, i just think its horrible how she is dying. She would be going through pain if it wasnt for
the morphine. U might say she isnt feeling pain but when a woman still moans and blinks and
breathes on her own im pretty sure her sensories of feeling is still working also

If that existed, I wouldn't have to hear this same story everyday on the news, and there wouldn't be four topics on it. Her feeding tube was removed once before, I don't recall seeing four topics on it here or congress getting into it, if it wasn't for a broken right of privacy we wouldn't even be hearing about this.

--

Without a doubt, Easter holiday is amazing, let's count some of the miracles this holiday has offered us this year:

1) Congress performed an unconstitutional action, forcing themselves right in the middle of a private family matter. Who cares that there are thousands of cases like this that they've never bothered to look into, I mean honestly who cares if congress shows special attention to only one citizen? Not like it's written anywhere that they shouldn’t. :rolleyes:

2) A president who signed a law in Texas in 1999, that allowed doctors to withdraw life support against a family's wishes, now does a 180* on the views of his own law for one woman? If Terri had her feeding tube first taken out in Texas you would have never heard of her ass.

3) The parents find all these accusations for Michael Schiavo, yet in the 1992 malpractice trial they testified that Michael Schiavo was a wonderful son-in-law and a very loving husband to Terri.

"Schiavo and the Schindlers, once so close they lived together, have been feuding over Mrs. Schiavo's care since the malpractice money was awarded."

Maybe, just maybe, the parents wanted a cut.

4) Jeb Bush wrote a letter to judge Greer in the past that commended Greer's decision to withdraw the feeding tube, way back when it was first taken out, stating his admiration for the man for following the rules of law. Perhaps 180*s are genetic?

5) Terri can all of a sudden say, "I want...", this was only mentioned when the parents couldn't win a trial. What does it matter that Terri allegedly said it on Friday when this all began? The parents were just too busy trying to get new trials to mention something as important as that, not their mistake.

6) All these politicians care so badly for Terri, they aren't acting on politics they're doing it because they genuinely care for Terri's well-being. Well, I suppose it's rather odd that when the polls were released stating the majority didn't care for politicians forcing themselves into a family's private matter, that the politicians all disappeared. I don't see any of them speaking out anymore, coincidence perhaps.

I just think if people are going to mention things shady with Michael Schiavo, I'd impart on them equally shady actions performed by the government and Terri's family. :)

[biggy]



6) All these politicians care so badly for Terri, they aren't acting on politics they're doing it because they genuinely care for Terri's well-being. Well, I suppose it's rather odd that when the polls were released stating the majority didn't care for politicians forcing themselves into a family's private matter, that the politicians all disappeared. I don't see any of them speaking out anymore, coincidence perhaps.



I would say the opposite. It took a supreme court in Florida to tell Jeb Bush he doesn't have the power to overrule a judges decision in 2003 to have the tube removed.

That's what kicked this entire thing off. The executive brank is trying to operate like the judicial branch.

On the day before Terri's feeding tube was "removed" (it's not actually removed but just turned off) Frist had a news conference saying Terri would be called to testify in front of Congress in an attempt to keep her alive. All this because the Christian Conservatives and most of the government think the executive branch has the right to step in on people's private matters.

The US Supreme Court says these matters are left up to States.
Florida has a right to privacy law and says this matter is left up to the custody, guardian, or husband. It comes to the word of her husband and the parents object. There isn't anything in the courts up to now that said a person's word is the same as a living will under a parents objection.
It's because most people don't want their kids living this way and they normally die of something else (bed sores, infection, etc) way before now.

[Zantutsuken]

It's been widely stated that congress could have done far more than the intitial attempt they made to get into this, yet they suddenly stopped meeting over the matter after the polls were released. Jeb Bush has slunk back into silence under the facade that his lawyers are scouring the books to find a law that can get this thing reversed after the poll was released, before the polls I saw him on just about every news network making statements. Now he could go get Terri, but it'd land him in jail seeing as how no law would back up his actions, however that's a small price to pay since he cares so much for her, right? Even Fox News stated none of the big name prolife politicians that started this and had appeared on their network pre-poll aren't even calling in to return to comment on the situation post-poll. The politicians made a boo-boo stepping into this, they thought they'd be revered and celebrated as the "protectors of life" and they were just mighty proud of their actions pre-poll. Post-poll they find themselves quietly licking their wounds in the anonymity of Easter holiday.

[Fossil]

And by the way, those videos are years old because they will not let anyone take new pictures or videos for something like 2 or 3 years now. I wonder why that is?

Because her husband won't allow any further pictures or videos to be taken.


But the better question is, why is this man still recognized as being her husband and guardian? He has a common law marriage with another woman. :insane:

If Terri, by some miracle, were to regain the powers of speech she might forgive her husband for moving on with his life after years, but there's no way she would want to remain married to him or for him to continue to be her legal guardian. How could she? Because if she were to recover, their marrige is over anyway; he has a whole new life with two kids and a new fiance. He wouldn't leave that to go back to Terri.

[Zantutsuken]

Because her husband won't allow any further pictures or videos to be taken.


But the better question is, why is this man still recognized as being her husband and guardian? He has a common law marriage with another woman. :insane:

If Terri, by some miracle, were to regain the powers of speech she might forgive her husband for moving on with his life after years, but there's no way she would want to remain married to him or for him to continue to be her legal guardian. How could she? Because if she were to recover, their marrige is over anyway; he has a whole new life with two kids and a new fiance. He wouldn't leave that to go back to Terri.

Actually, those videos you see now, Terri's family has admitted to taking them without the husband's permission, there weren't supposed to be any videos of her at all. They didn't stop taking videos of her due to the lack of the husband's permission, no idea why they stopped, maybe they got frisked before going in after the last time they video taped her.

According to her family Terri could also verbalize some words, yet none were ever recorded, if her family would have recorded those alleged minor verbalizations perhaps things would have gone differently. Odds are, and this is what I'm betting, Terri never could speak and it was a last ditch effort to save her life, hence why we see no video tapes of her speaking.

[zamphir66]

If Terri, by some miracle, were to regain the powers of speech she might forgive her husband for moving on with his life after years, but there's no way she would want to remain married to him or for him to continue to be her legal guardian. How could she? Because if she were to recover, their marrige is over anyway;

She won't recover because half her freakin' brain has dissolved away. Her EEG is FLAT!!!

She died a long time ago, why people insist on keeping her body alive is beyond me. Well no, it's not beyond me, emotions make people irrational. I understand that.

[naTi]

Actually, those videos you see now, Terri's family has admitted to taking them without the husband's permission, there weren't supposed to be any videos of her at all. They didn't stop taking videos of her due to the lack of the husband's permission, no idea why they stopped, maybe they got frisked before going in after the last time they video taped her.

According to her family Terri could also verbalize some words, yet none were ever recorded, if her family would have recorded those alleged minor verbalizations perhaps things would have gone differently. Odds are, and this is what I'm betting, Terri never could speak and it was a last ditch effort to save her life, hence why we see no video tapes of her speaking.

Yeah if she can speak it probably goes a little something like this:

Parents: Hey Terri how you doing today?
Terri: DOG!
Parents: Thats good. What flavor food you want down your tube today Terri?
Terri: DOG!
Parents: Ok. Steak and potatoes it is.

[camilo]

The importance of this event is that if we allow to kill Terri, we should be allow to kill another person in a similar condition.



400 BC
THE OATH
by Hippocrates
Translated by Francis Adams

I SWEAR by Apollo the physician, and Aesculapius, and Health, and All-heal, and all the gods and goddesses, that, according to my ability and judgment, I will keep this Oath and this stipulation- to reckon him who taught me this Art equally dear to me as my parents, to share my substance with him, and relieve his necessities if required; to look upon his offspring in the same footing as my own brothers, and to teach them this art, if they shall wish to learn it, without fee or stipulation; and that by precept, lecture, and every other mode of instruction, I will impart a knowledge of the Art to my own sons, and those of my teachers, and to disciples bound by a stipulation and oath according to the law of medicine, but to none others. I will follow that system of regimen which, according to my ability and judgment, I consider for the benefit of my patients, and abstain from whatever is deleterious and mischievous. I will give no deadly medicine to any one if asked, nor suggest any such counsel; and in like manner I will not give to a woman a pessary to produce abortion. With purity and with holiness I will pass my life and practice my Art. I will not cut persons laboring under the stone, but will leave this to be done by men who are practitioners of this work. Into whatever houses I enter, I will go into them for the benefit of the sick, and will abstain from every voluntary act of mischief and corruption; and, further from the seduction of females or males, of freemen and slaves. Whatever, in connection with my professional practice or not, in connection with it, I see or hear, in the life of men, which ought not to be spoken of abroad, I will not divulge, as reckoning that all such should be kept secret. While I continue to keep this Oath unviolated, may it be granted to me to enjoy life and the practice of the art, respected by all men, in all times! But should I trespass and violate this Oath, may the reverse be my lot!

[zamphir66]

The importance of this event is that if we allow to kill Terri, we should be allow to kill another person in a similar condition.

We do...every day...People seem to think this situation is somehow unique and unprecedented, it's not. Old dememted people who refuse to eat are allowed to starve by their families, I've witnessed this. When people want to die, they should be allowed to. And when people are braindead, a la Terri Shiavo, their "life" should not be unduely extended. In my opinion, it's immoral and flies in the face of God.

[camilo]

We do...every day...People seem to think this situation is somehow unique and unprecedented, it's not. Old dememted people who refuse to eat are allowed to starve by their families, I've witnessed this. When people want to die, they should be allowed to. And when people are braindead, a la Terri Shiavo, their "life" should not be unduely extended. In my opinion, it's immoral and flies in the face of God.

I dont think so.
If someone is depressed and wants to die, we should allow him to kill himself? even if we know that depression is a mental disease that can be cured?

[zamphir66]

I dont think so.
If someone is depressed and wants to die, we should allow him to kill himself? even if we know that depression is a mental disease that can be cured?

Depression is one thing, terminal cancer and old age are another. My great-grandmother left the hospital twenty years ago to stay at her mothers. She was bedridden and suffering. We, the family, brought her home to die. She didn't live for much longer, but she was at home and at peace. It was the right thing to do.

*I realize this has nothing to do with Shiavo, but the topic has kind of shifted towards end-of-life treatment etc.

[biggy]

I dont think so.
If someone is depressed and wants to die, we should allow him to kill himself? even if we know that depression is a mental disease that can be cured?


Euthanasia, mercy killing, physical assisted suicide, call it what you want is illiegal in the US.

Allowing death by not providing life support or vital medication is not euthanasia if it's the patients wish. This happens every day. If you don't believe it go ask any doctor or nurse and they'll tell you.

Passive Euthanasia is when patients can't make decision about they're treatment. Living Will's cover that and allows for not providing life support. Her feeding tube is considered life support in this definition. Florida allows a guardian to make this decision.

[AttomicKitten]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=19270&item=5569186802&rd=1

[Maverick]

No, the real story is our federal government wildly overstepping it's constitutional authority to pander to religious fanatics.
Are you suggesting we allow one branch of the government to go unchecked?