Hanoi Jane picture was the biggest mistake of my life.

[Mr. Ram]

Jane Fonda (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/04/02/wfonda02.xml&sSheet=/portal/2005/04/02/ixportal.html) finally regrets her treachery towards the country that gave her privilege.Senator John McCain, who was a PoW during the Fonda visit, said he was tortured for refusing to meet her. I even have more respect for John Mccain now.

What a stupid bitch. She should of been forced to stay in Vietnam with her NVA buddies.

[jn_powell]

I could give two shits about what she regrets. Sure I forgive her, but I still have zero respect for her. I do support her speaking out against a war she did not support, as I support all those that speak out against the war in Iraq, as that is their Constitutional right, but disrespecting those fighting under order is disgraceful.

[Nocturnal]

she went over the line from being an objector to the war to being borderline treasonous

if she was really so anti-war she would not have sat in an anti-aircraft gun from any country,

besides that I don't really care about her

[American Infidel]

I say she don't give a damn about what she did during Vietnam. She's just trying to convince people to forgive her and buy her book that will soon hit the shelves.

She should've been put on trial and hanged by the neck until dead for treason.

[Sparky_07]

Have you ever seen the footage? She is smiling and laughing with a huge grin on her face. She sits on their equipment and I think it even fires. It is unimaginable what she was thinking. My father can't stand her, he is a veteran of the Korean war. Perhaps she should have been sentenced to live in North Vietnam?

John McCain is a pretty amazing guy, in my opinion. I have a lot of respect for him. If you are interested, you should read Why Courage Matters. I have never read his other memoirs, but I hear they are good.

[aeNeo]

once again, it's all about the money:

As is traditional in the United States, the confessional interview is part of the pre-publicity for a book, in this case Fonda's new autobiography, Jane Fonda: My Life So Far.

[Chewy]

Peopel did some really dumb shit during that time, no one really can say what that war was about or why it needed to be fought, or fought against. As far as I can see it she was just being stupid and as far as I can tell its not against the law in the US to be stupid.

[Blue25]

i don't see whats the big fuss...i mean she sat on soem anti-air guns and smiled...so what? americans sit on their tanks and smile...i don't see the difference, i mean it was a stupid thing to do cuz that just made her look like the enemy, but liek in theory why is this so horrible? and does anyone know where i can find the video?

[droogsteve]

Peopel did some really dumb shit during that time, no one really can say what that war was about or why it needed to be fought, or fought against. As far as I can see it she was just being stupid and as far as I can tell its not against the law in the US to be stupid.

I believe what Fonda did goes way beyond stupidity.


The Constitution of the United States, Art. III, defines treason against the United States to consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid or comfort. This offence is punished with death. By the same article of the Constitution, no person shall be convicted of treason, unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.


http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/t103.htm

She certainly did both of those.

Ever hear of Tokyo Rose? She was an Japanese-American US citizen who was trapped in Japan after the bombing of Pearl Harbor. She eventually got a job broadcasting music mixed with propaganda messages aimed at US troops. She would talk about how the US couldn't possibly win the war and tell US troops how their wives were cheating on them with all of the 4-F guys back home.

After the war, she was arrested and charged with treason. She was sentenced to 10 years in federal prison. I don't see how what Fonda did was any different. As a matter of fact, it was worse. Her posing with American POWs in that disgusting photo op sideshow and telling the world how well they were being treated seems a lot worse than some lame propaganda between Benny Goodman songs.

[Karly]

inall honesty she was young & idealistic & did something stupid & she is now a women of many more years & sees her faults in this. if anything i think she should be at least commended for admitting she is wrong- some ppl - esp. when they are famous- will never admit to being wrong. at least she did that much.

[jn_powell]

inall honesty she was young & idealistic & did something stupid & she is now a women of many more years & sees her faults in this. if anything i think she should be at least commended for admitting she is wrong- some ppl - esp. when they are famous- will never admit to being wrong. at least she did that much.
Perhaps if she was not doing it to sell books, and actually meant it(which I don't think she does) I would more understanding. As it stands, she is lucky she was not arrested and put on trial for treason.

[aeNeo]

inall honesty she was young & idealistic & did something stupid & she is now a women of many more years & sees her faults in this. if anything i think she should be at least commended for admitting she is wrong- some ppl - esp. when they are famous- will never admit to being wrong. at least she did that much.will you consider purchasing her upcoming book now that you've seen her humility?

[Karly]

Perhaps if she was not doing it to sell books, and actually meant it(which I don't think she does) I would more understanding. As it stands, she is lucky she was not arrested and put on trial for treason.


I agree she is lucky not be arrested & such- but sheesh she was young & did something dumb during an age when the country was in turmoil over a very splitting war. at least she sees the fault in it now is all I'm saying. not saying she was right cuz as far as I am concerned you should never ever choose another country over your own- mine of course being America.

[Chewy]

The Constitution of the United States, Art. III, defines treason against the United States to consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid or comfort. This offence is punished with death. By the same article of the Constitution, no person shall be convicted of treason, unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.
was it war??? I thought it was Conflict or police action. There were time it was a war and other times in was not. It was a pretty fuzzy time in history.

Proponents of the war argued that the conflict was something less than a formal war, that the U.S. was assisting a properly engaged ally in defending itself and that the lack of a declaration was a formality. Opponents said that, in addition to other arguments, the lack of declaration made Vietnam an illegal war. The Supreme Court of the United States probably could have settled the issue, but no case was ever taken up by the Court.

[Blue25]

Ever hear of Tokyo Rose? She was an Japanese-American US citizen who was trapped in Japan after the bombing of Pearl Harbor. She eventually got a job broadcasting music mixed with propaganda messages aimed at US troops. She would talk about how the US couldn't possibly win the war and tell US troops how their wives were cheating on them with all of the 4-F guys back home.

After the war, she was arrested and charged with treason. She was sentenced to 10 years in federal prison. I don't see how what Fonda did was any different. As a matter of fact, it was worse. Her posing with American POWs in that disgusting photo op sideshow and telling the world how well they were being treated seems a lot worse than some lame propaganda between Benny Goodman songs.
how is fonda's actions worse then tokyo rose's? this japanese women acctually did soemthin against american soliders, she spoke out against them and beat down their moral (i dunno if it really worked, but she tried), this fonda women just smiled at some vietnamese people and their guns.......

and i think chewy may be right, it was a difficult time, people didn't know what was going on, maybe she got caught up in the whole anti-war thing and really made herself believe the enemy was not really an enemy.

[American Infidel]

inall honesty she was young & idealistic & did something stupid & she is now a women of many more years & sees her faults in this. if anything i think she should be at least commended for admitting she is wrong- some ppl - esp. when they are famous- will never admit to being wrong. at least she did that much.


Problem I have is that in the 30-some years since her treasonous acts, not one word of regret has passed from her lips...until she decides to write a book...for profit.

If she truly is sorry about what she did, she'd donate all profit from her book to the VFW or American Legion or Department of Veteran's Affairs, etc.

[Karly]

Problem I have is that in the 30-some years since her treasonous acts, not one word of regret has passed from her lips...until she decides to write a book...for profit.


i see ur point - I didnt say I would be buying the book. if she is sincere then thats great, if shes doing it simply to sell books- well karma is a bitch & it always gets you.

[jn_powell]

i see ur point - I didnt say I would be buying the book. if she is sincere then thats great, if shes doing it simply to sell books- well karma is a bitch & it always gets you.
I can't wait to see it happen. I don't buy for one second that she is honestly sorry or, as Heather pointed out, she would have said something before it became financially beneficial to her.

[Sparky_07]

If she is so sincere, maybe she should donate all of her profits from her book to the VA hospital or some other related charity to benefit veterans.

[Karly]

If she is so sincere, maybe she should donate all of her profits from her book to the VA hospital or some other related charity to benefit veterans.


well that is just about the dandiest idea ever. Both my bro & my husband are Vets so I am all anything that helps the Vets of our country. Its unreal that through the VA my husband has no coverage for eyes or dental- crazy right- thankfully he has a great job that gives him everything he needs. Thankfully he cant stillwork too- as can my bro, but I wonder about those vets who cant & what they must have to do to getthe care they need. Its a sad thing when the country you fight for doenst take care of you.

[Mr. Ram]

I wonder if vets especially nam vets would take her money. Some vets would probably tell her to take her book and money so she could shove it up her ass.

[Sparky_07]

mama..especially the truly disabled. I have seen stories on the news about even current vets of Iraq going through hell to get covered after losing limbs and worse. It is insane, I am so greatful that there are people able and willing to put their lives in the service of the country, I know I couldn't do it, unless I really had to.

And Ram, I am sure many of them that don't need it would tell her to shove it up her ass.

[Karly]

mama..especially the truly disabled. I have seen stories on the news about even current vets of Iraq going through hell to get covered after losing limbs and worse. It is insane, I am so greatful that there are people able and willing to put their lives in the service of the country, I know I couldn't do it, unless I really had to.

And Ram, I am sure many of them that don't need it would tell her to shove it up her ass.


fuck that shit- we puertorican- we'd take every dime form her! :p

[JerkyMyTurky]

She is a celebrity, some celebrities eventualy write an autobiography. When such a book is coming out, the celebrities have to market the book. They do by going on talk shows or having interviews. The questions asked are going to be about the most controversial and attention getting issues. Do you think 60 minutes is going to have an interview with her and not bring up this specific incident? Do you think she is going to promote her book and not take interviews on primetime television? If you want to say her apology isn't sincere, don't use the fact she has an autobiography coming out as reasoning, because sincere or not, she would have to talk about the incident no matter what.

[American Infidel]

She is a celebrity, some celebrities eventualy write an autobiography. When such a book is coming out, the celebrities have to market the book. They do by going on talk shows or having interviews. The questions asked are going to be about the most controversial and attention getting issues. Do you think 60 minutes is going to have an interview with her and not bring up this specific incident? Do you think she is going to promote her book and not take interviews on primetime television? If you want to say her apology isn't sincere, don't use the fact she has an autobiography coming out as reasoning, because sincere or not, she would have to talk about the incident no matter what.


I'd say that she realized that her actions would impede sales on her book and publically apologized as a strategic marketing ploy.

With her book on the dawn of becoming available for purchase, I see through her alligator-tears. It's disgusting, if you ask me.

[droogsteve]

how is fonda's actions worse then tokyo rose's? this japanese women acctually did soemthin against american soliders, she spoke out against them and beat down their moral (i dunno if it really worked, but she tried), this fonda women just smiled at some vietnamese people and their guns.......

Fonda did the EXACT same thing. She called the American POWs war criminals. When they tried to tell her of being tortured and mistreated, she called them liars. How about that for beating down morale? POWs like McCain who refused to meet with her were beaten. Tell me something Tokyo Rose did that was worse than what Fonda did.


and i think chewy may be right, it was a difficult time, people didn't know what was going on, maybe she got caught up in the whole anti-war thing and really made herself believe the enemy was not really an enemy.

Anti-war is fine. Giving aid to the enemy is not.


was it war??? I thought it was Conflict or police action. There were time it was a war and other times in was not. It was a pretty fuzzy time in history.

Semantics. When 50,000 Americans die in combat fighting an enemy, it's a war. And while Americans were being killed in that war, she was aiding the enemy with her propaganda.

[Sparky_07]

Here's something to think about, imagine the onslaught of let's say Angelina Jolie going to Iraq and taking photos with some members of the terrorist group there as they are setting off a bomb that is shooting at a US military base as they smile and laugh together. On the premise that she is against this war, she goes and does a big photo op with Osama bin Laden, how does that sound?

[aeNeo]

Here's something to think about, imagine the onslaught of let's say Angelina Jolie going to Iraq and taking photos with some members of the terrorist group there as they are setting off a bomb that is shooting at a US military base as they smile and laugh together. On the premise that she is against this war, she goes and does a big photo op with Osama bin Laden, how does that sound?it sounds no different. what's your point?

[Blue25]

Fonda did the EXACT same thing. She called the American POWs war criminals. When they tried to tell her of being tortured and mistreated, she called them liars. How about that for beating down morale? POWs like McCain who refused to meet with her were beaten. Tell me something Tokyo Rose did that was worse than what Fonda did.

sorry my bad, i wasn't aware of the fact she was told soldiers were being tortured but she didn't believe it.

[Sparky_07]

it sounds no different. what's your point?


Well, there are people that are of the opinion that it was okay for Jane Fonda to do, so I was trying to put it in modern terms for someone that may have a more emotional attachment to the current war....not that you deserve the explanation you rude fucking ass.

[aeNeo]

Well, there are people that are of the opinion that it was okay for Jane Fonda to do, so I was trying to put it in modern terms for someone that may have a more emotional attachment to the current warok. it wasn't clear as to who you were addressing. thanks for clearing that up.


....not that you deserve the explanation you rude fucking ass.

i wish i could argue. but that was just unnecessary.

[American Infidel]

...not that you deserve the explanation you rude fucking ass.

Did I miss something here? I haven't seen a post here yet that deserves a remark like that one.

[Chewy]

Semantics. When 50,000 Americans die in combat fighting an enemy, it's a war. And while Americans were being killed in that war, she was aiding the enemy with her propaganda.

Semantics?? The only way you can justify her actions as being treason in this definition,
The Constitution of the United States, Art. III, defines treason against the United States to consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid or comfort. This offence is punished with death. By the same article of the Constitution, no person shall be convicted of treason, unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.
is if the US did in fact create the overt act of levying war, they did not. It can be called dastardly, underhanded even despicable but its not legally treason, the US has declared War.

[Sparky_07]

Did I miss something here? I haven't seen a post here yet that deserves a remark like that one.

"yeah, so what's your point? "

I find this response to be rude, so I threw in a gratuitous swear word out of irritation, but my opinion was remarking to what I felt was rude.

[Chewy]

"yeah, so what's your point? "

I find this response to be rude, so I threw in a gratuitous swear word out of irritation, but my opinion was remarking to what I felt was rude.
hey be nice!! I mean it or I'll be forced to ask you again. :shout:

[Sparky_07]

ok. it wasn't clear as to who you were addressing. thanks for clearing that up.




i wish i could argue. but that was just unnecessary.


See, if you had said, I don't understand who you are talking to? What's your point is rude to me. I thought what I was saying was pretty clear. I shouldn't have been so rude in response, I don't think that you were just trying to clear up my point, however. I will try and not be so snappy.

[American Infidel]

See, if you had said, I don't understand who you are talking to? What's your point is rude to me. I thought what I was saying was pretty clear. I shouldn't have been so rude in response, I don't think that you were just trying to clear up my point, however. I will try and not be so snappy.

I don't really see that question (what's your point?) as rude. First, I think he was sincerely trying to figure out what you meant. Second, you've been here long enough to know that you need a fair amount of "thick skin" to get along here. After my wife donated her account to me here, I was attacked on all fronts because of my opinion. Now that I've been here a year, I've made a lot of friends and get along quite well with most people. Sure, there's many, many, many ,many ,many times that we don't agree with each other. But letting such a trivial little sentence bother you like that will result in you feeling like you've got to defend yourself, thus posting useless attacks and taking away from the thread as a whole.

Take my advice. At least 30 minutes before you log on ebaumsworld.com, take a valium and drink a couple of beers. If you don't smoke, take it up. It's for you own good...and eBaum's bandwidth.

[Chewy]

Take my advice. At least 30 minutes before you log on ebaumsworld.com, take a valium and drink a couple of beers. If you don't smoke, take it up. It's for you own good...and eBaum's bandwidth.
I don't think he can do any of that stuff... unless he is another Sparky I think he is a Mormon.

But that's not the point of the thread...

[Viet Era Marine]

What do I think of Jane Dearest?

Here's what:


"There are few things I have strong visceral reactions to, but Jane Fonda's participation in what I believe to be blatant treason, is one of them. Part of my conviction comes from exposure to those who suffered her attentions. The first part of this is from an F-4E pilot. The pilot's name is Jerry Driscoll, a River Rat. In 1978, the Commandant of the USAF Survival School was a former POW in Ho Lo Prison-the "Hanoi Hilton".

Dragged from a stinking cesspit of a cell, cleaned, fed, and dressed in clean PJs, he was ordered to describe for a visiting American "Peace Activist" the "lenient and humane treatment" he'd received. He spat at Ms. Fonda, was clubbed, and dragged away. During the subsequent beating, he fell forward upon the camp Commandant's feet, accidentally pulling the man's shoe off- which sent that officer berserk.

In '78, the AF Col still suffered from double vision (which permanently ended his flying days) from the Vietnamese Col's frenzied application of a wooden baton.

From 1983-85, Col Larry Carrigan was the 347FW/DO (F-4Es). He spent 6 years in the "Hilton" - the first three of which he was "missing in action". His wife lived on faith that he was still alive. His group, too, got the cleaned/fed/clothed routine in preparation for a "peace delegation" visit. They, however, had time and devised a plan to get word to the world that they still survived. Each man secreted a tiny piece of paper, with his SSN on it, in the palm of his hand.

When paraded before Ms. Fonda and a cameraman, she walked the line, shaking each man's hand and asking little encouraging snippets like: "Aren't you sorry you bombed babies?" and "Are you grateful for the humane treatment from your benevolent captors?" Believing this HAD to be an act, they each palmed her their sliver of paper. She took them all without missing a beat. At the end of the line and once the camera stopped rolling, to the shocked disbelief of the POWs, she turned to the officer in charge... and handed him the little pile.

Three men died from the subsequent beatings. Col Carrigan was almost number four. For years after their release, a group of determined former POWs Including Col Carrigan, tried to bring Ms. Fonda and others up on charges of treason. I don't know that they used it, but the charge of "Negligent Homicide due to Depraved Indifference" would also seem appropriate. Her obvious "granting of aid and comfort to the enemy", alone, should've been sufficient for the treason count.

---------------------------------------------------------

And yes, I would tell her where to shove her book profits!

Regards,
VEM

[American Infidel]

So now, Jane "Hanoi" Fonda is saying that she doesn't regret going to North Vietnam during the war. She just regrets being photographed on that anti-aircraft gun that had shot down a number of American pilots.

In her own defense, she claims, "There are hundreds of American delegations that had met with the POWs...It's not something that I will apologize for."

When asked if she would go to Iraq and do the same thing, she says, "I don't think it's the same situation at all."

Source (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1374757/posts)

Oh, and get this!! She's got a movie coming out, too. Go figure. Probably having Tori Spelling playing the role as her, I can only hope. A shitty actress playing the role of a communist-loving shitty actress.

[gigatonblast]

Symbolism over substance.


Many months ago,(pre election) I had commented on the subject of Jane Fonda.
Nobody read what I had to say back then.
DAMN YOU ! :D


For myself...
I'm glad she did what she did.

:eek:
:confused:

Yup, I was 8 at the time.

I remember what I thought about it then...

A.) Shes an actress
B.) Shes :insane:
C.) Nothing will really come of this.

Ya know why ?...Shes Hollywood to the core.

That event shaped my thinking then, and now.

Has she lost work, or become a rambling street person ? NOPE.
Has she really had a c change in her thinking ?...I dont think so.

They say the only things you regret are the things you dont do.
Theres no such thing as bad publicity.
She (as Heather so brilliantly pointed out) needs to sell you something.


Hollywood folk want you to think that because they look good...
That because they can memorize a few lines...
That what they say, think,and do is oh so important.

I'd like you to put this in your hard drives...

Save this till the summer of 2008.

Think about a Hollywood actress sitting in a very large gun.

Then think about how Hollywood always endorces the "D " candidate.

ALWAYS !

[Chewy]

What do I think of Jane Dearest?

---------------------------------------------------------

And yes, I would tell her where to shove her book profits!

Regards,
VEM


Where is your letter to Robert McNamara VEM?



Dearest Robert your bullshit war cost the US an estimated 58,202 deaths of US service personal, and estimated 2,338 MIA's. The Us got off light compared to the Vietnamese who’s death toll was estimated in the 1,000,000 plus range. SOURCE (http://www.rjsmith.com/kia_tbl.html)

Blame Jane all you want but unless you bitch to the folks that really cost people those lives you’re a flaming hypocrite.

[American Infidel]

Where is your letter to Robert McNamara VEM?



Dearest Robert your bullshit war cost the US an estimated 58,202 deaths of US service personal, and estimated 2,338 MIA's. The Us got off light compared to the Vietnamese who’s death toll was estimated in the 1,000,000 plus range. SOURCE (http://www.rjsmith.com/kia_tbl.html)

Blame Jane all you want but unless you bitch to the folks that really cost people those lives you’re a flaming hypocrite.

Chewy, I have a brother who served in the Marines during Vietnam. No matter what the "political" reasons for the war was, you can't seriously say that Jane Fonda's actions were not out of line...even treasonous.

[Chewy]

Chewy, I have a brother who served in the Marines during Vietnam. No matter what the "political" reasons for the war was, you can't seriously say that Jane Fonda's actions were not out of line...even treasonous.
I had family that served there as well, even a POW. I'm not supporting her actions, I think she was very foolish. However, if you are going to get pissed off about Jane actions why are the "real" players not going to get called onto the carpet.