Nash Wins MVP! [Archive] - eBaum's World Forum

Mr. Ram

05-06-2005, 08:00 PM

Nash deserves the MVP that phoenix team is horrible with out him.

When Nash went down for like 10 games, I believe the suns only won one game.

Phoenix better pray Nash dont go down in the playoffs or their done for.

Plaid Paint

05-06-2005, 08:10 PM

Are you serious?

Please.

Shaq didn't make the Heat all that much better. Being the best team in the Eastern Conference is still the same as being King Of Nothing.

Without Shaq the Heat would still have made the playoffs this year.

Without Nash, the Suns probably wouldn't have won more then 15 games this year, let alone having the best record in the Western Conference.

The fact that the vote was even close is the most outlandish and outrageous thing.

Devastation

05-06-2005, 09:54 PM

Being the best team in the Eastern Conference is still the same as being King Of Nothing.

All I have to say is, "Detroit, 2004 champs, and soon-to-be 2005 champs."

Pinoyfitness

05-06-2005, 10:23 PM

still cant believe he left the mavs....good player, he deserves it.

JerkyMyTurky

05-06-2005, 10:35 PM

I think Shaq should have won it. Shaq made the Heat better, the heat didn't make Shaq better. Nash makes the Suns better, but the Suns also make Nash better. He is surrounded by Amare and Marion and all the 3 point shooters. Shaq didn't put up big offensive numbers, because he didn't have to. I'm assuming that is what swayed some votes towards Nash instead. Put Nash on the Knicks, they probably wont improve that much, but put Shaq on the Knicks, they improve greatly.

Bullet

05-06-2005, 11:50 PM

Shaq blows. Not exactly, but you know if you stick him on a team, the team will get 'good', unless the team sucks. I acutally knew the Miami Heat existed, but the Phoenix Suns, I thought they were dead. Steve Nash made the team come back alive, and they're fucking good.

Bulls fucking lost :censor:

sk0rch

05-07-2005, 12:10 AM

I know, did you see one of the last passes? When they were inbounding? I was so fuckin' pissed off. Oh wellz.

Yeah and Nash deserves it.

Pfef63

05-07-2005, 12:14 AM

Bad, bad choice.

Everyone is quick to point out the Suns record without Nash, but if the Suns had any sort of backup PG, they'd easily be just as good. Nash wasn't this team's savior at all. They could've gone after an average PG in the offseason and still been one of the top 2 seeds. Two seasons ago, the Suns made the playoffs, and that was without Quentin Richardson or Joe Johnson, along with a rookie Amare Stoudamire. The only true vets they had were Stephon Marbury, who IMO is slightly better than average, and Shawn Marion, who was probably the MVP of that team this season. Now, they have an experienced Amare, two 3 point specialists, a defensive specialist in Marion, and a PG who was no better than Marbury. It's clear that the Suns were on the verge of being a top seed two seasons ago, and they just needed some experience and role players to do that.

With Shaq, it's simple enough:

Last year, the Lakers went 56-26, this year, they went 34-48 and weren't even the best team in LA.

Last year, the Heat went a respectable 42-40, good enough for just barely a 4 seed. This year, Shaq helped them run away with the East.

TheDawgPound72

05-07-2005, 12:48 AM

The Heat would have been good, but no where close to how they are now. The Suns would have also been good with Nash. Shaq is the most dominant player in the NBA, making him the most valuable in the league.

Nerdcraft

05-07-2005, 12:52 AM

Steve Nash averaged 9 assists per game last year with Dallas, and no one would have ever mentioned his name in MVP talks, ever...This year add a couple of alley-oops to Stoudamire every game and he averaged 11, now all of a sudden he's the MVP? Give me a break, Steve Nash, even though he is white and that rules that he won MVP, him being white and all, was not the MVP of the league.

Mr. Ram

05-07-2005, 01:07 AM

Shaq is the most dominant player in the NBA, making him the most valuable in the league.

In that case Shaq has been the MVP since Jordan retired.

piggyman18

05-07-2005, 01:34 AM

you know if you stick him on a team, the team will get 'good

Is that not saying right there that he is the most valuable player no matter what team he is on?

Plaid Paint

05-07-2005, 02:51 AM

and a PG who was no better than Marbury. It's clear that the Suns were on the verge of being a top seed two seasons ago, .

This is the same Stephan Marbury who was bleating and shrieking and screeching about how he was the "best point guard in the NBA" all the while leading the New York Knicks absolutely nowhere near the playoffs, right?

Marbury isn't good enough to give Nash a blowjob.

Plus, Nash was banging Elizabeth Hurley on a regular basis a few years back, so for that alone he deserves the MVP.

s3xyjesus

05-07-2005, 03:23 AM

Shaq should of won it no question

Nash's defense is one of the worst...PG rankings, he doesnt help his team defense, despite a great offense

brianmil

05-07-2005, 03:36 AM

Sure, the Miami Heat are nothing without Shaq. But the Phoenix suns are nothing without Steve Nash in they're lineup. That's just a fact.

Steve Nash does everything right on the basketball floor. He play's the game right and always get's his teammates involved, and when he needs to knock down a shot and decides to shoot he's deadly. He makes your team better and that's what a MVP does -- makes your team better. There was no team better in the regular season then Phoenix.

Dallas didn't suffer by losing Nash because they added Jason Terry, Erick Dampier, Jerry Stackhouse and Keith Van Horn. Four very serviceable players who make your roster better. The Lakers lost Shaq, Karl Malone, Gary Payton and Phil Jackson...and added who? Chucky Atkins? Vlade Divac? Of course the Lakers are going to struggle.

If it were up to me I'd co-MVP the award to both players. It's hard to argue against any of them.

Oh, and by the way, if you want to talk about Nash's D then let's play fair game and talk about Shaq's free throws. This season he shot a career low 46%.

JerkyMyTurky

05-07-2005, 05:13 AM

This is the same Stephan Marbury who was bleating and shrieking and screeching about how he was the "best point guard in the NBA" all the while leading the New York Knicks absolutely nowhere near the playoffs, right?

Marbury isn't good enough to give Nash a blowjob.

Plus, Nash was banging Elizabeth Hurley on a regular basis a few years back, so for that alone he deserves the MVP.

Put Marbury on the Suns this year and put Nash on the Knicks, you would get similar results out of both teams. Nash wouldn't be able to do jack shit with the players on the Knicks. Marbury than looks like the best PG in the league and Nash looks average.

Mr. Ram

05-07-2005, 12:34 PM

Put Marbury on the Suns this year and put Nash on the Knicks, you would get similar results out of both teams. Nash wouldn't be able to do jack shit with the players on the Knicks. Marbury than looks like the best PG in the league and Nash looks average.

I highly doubt Marbury would of done as good as Nash in Phoenix. Marbury has to be the most overrated pg in the league their is a reason he's been traded to so many teams and all those teams end up sucking.

bluesheep

05-07-2005, 01:22 PM

That's right, bitches, Kid Canada is MVP.

Pfef63

05-07-2005, 02:27 PM

In that case Shaq has been the MVP since Jordan retired.
He has been

Sure, the Miami Heat are nothing without Shaq. But the Phoenix suns are nothing without Steve Nash in they're lineup. That's just a fact. That's because the Suns had no depth at the point, so they were left with Leandro Barbosa to carry the load and nobody after him. Even with a halfway decent PG, they get one of the top 2 seeds in the West.

He makes your team better and that's what a MVP does -- makes your team better. Shaq added 17 wins and a number one seed onto Miami's team.

nothinbutnet

05-07-2005, 02:40 PM

I highly doubt Marbury would of done as good as Nash in Phoenix. Marbury has to be the most overrated pg in the league their is a reason he's been traded to so many teams and all those teams end up sucking.

i disagree, because steve nash and Steph play entirely different games. While steph is a shoot first, i don't like my teamates and i put it on myself to do everything even when i don't have to player, Nash is a pass first player. If you bring up the argument that Marbury get assists, that is becasue he is quadruple teamed so when he passes it, the whole team is wide openm and they have a few good players to make shots. ie Crawford.

Plaid Paint

05-07-2005, 02:41 PM

Shaq added 17 wins and a number one seed onto Miami's team.
Big fucking deal. Actually, more like small fucking deal.

Nash added 33 wins and took a team from last in it's division all the way not only to the #1 seed in the Western Conference, but the best record in the entire league.

To even consider Shaq for MVP over Nash is ludicrous, let alone actually casting a vote for him.

xboxfever.com

05-07-2005, 02:45 PM

ESPN's Marc Stein has reported that Steve Nash edged out Shaquille O'Neal to win MVP honors!

as much as I love the big fella, I think that this is well-deserved. Actually, I think that either one would have been a fine choice.

Plaid Paint

05-07-2005, 02:47 PM

Put Marbury on the Suns this year and put Nash on the Knicks, you would get similar results out of both teams. Nash wouldn't be able to do jack shit with the players on the Knicks. Marbury than looks like the best PG in the league and Nash looks average.

Right.

Then explain why when Marbury was with the Suns and with almost the exact same lineup that Nash has, Marbury managed to help lead them to a flabulous 29-53 record before being traded to the Knicks whom he proceeded to lead to an equally flabulous 39-43 record. And this season he has done oh-so-much better, having helped the Knicks to win 6 fewer games.

Marbury is a self indulgent, self centered punk who is all talk and no action. That's all he'll ever be.

Like I said before, he isn't good enough to suck Nash's dick.

Pfef63

05-07-2005, 02:53 PM

Right.

Then explain why when Marbury was with the Suns and with almost the exact same lineup that Nash has, Marbury managed to help lead them to a flabulous 29-53
Amare was hurt, no outside shooter, still no depth, and only had Shawn Marion who isn't very productive offensively

Plaid Paint

05-07-2005, 05:22 PM

Amare was hurt, no outside shooter, still no depth, and only had Shawn Marion who isn't very productive offensively

Please.

That's no excuse.

If Marbury is as flantabulous a player as he keeps bleating about being he should have led the Suns to the best record in the league.

But all he can do is talk the talk, he has never even come close to backing it up with his actual performance.

Plaid Paint

05-07-2005, 05:52 PM

Nerdcraft

05-07-2005, 06:52 PM

You're missing the point, we're not trying to toot Marbury's horn, we're simply saying give Marbury the same exact team and he would put up similair numbers, plus 5-10 more PPG.

Plaid Paint

05-08-2005, 01:50 AM

You're missing the point, we're not trying to toot Marbury's horn, we're simply saying give Marbury the same exact team and he would put up similair numbers, plus 5-10 more PPG.

As I said before Marbury did have the exact same team, or as close to it as is reasonable, and with him the Suns sucked, and when they traded him to the Knicks, the Knicks sucked and continue to suck and in fact, were worse this year, when Marbury was with the team for the entire season ,then they were last year, when he came to the Knicks midway through the season.

That quite clearly demonstrates that Marbury is the problem and the reason why the Suns used to suck and the Knicks did and do suck.

Fish_Bone

05-09-2005, 12:32 AM

You're missing the point, we're not trying to toot Marbury's horn, we're simply saying give Marbury the same exact team and he would put up similair numbers, plus 5-10 more PPG.

What the hell are you on? Because that sounds like some really good shit. Like top premo Robert Downey Jr. shit.

We (I'm a Suns fan) had a average point guard last season and still had a losing record before we traded Marbury. And that's why we traded that bastard. So we could get the money to get some big free agents that would help us. And we realized we had a lacking at the point. Hence we got Nash.

JerkyMyTurky

05-09-2005, 01:21 AM

Look at Nash's career stats, specifically the last 3 years. He got the award pretty much for the Suns having a great team record this year. Is he one of the reasons the team improved? Yes. Do I think he had a stellar improvement from years past? No. He averaged 2 assists more this year than years past, that does not classify as a major improvement. Nash should be thanking the Suns GM for signing him, because I don't think he could do the same for another team and look as good. That award is due as much to the surrounding players on the Sun, than to his skill level alone. The same cannot be said about Shaq.

brianmil

05-09-2005, 03:33 AM

Good God, are people actually seriously trying to compare Stephon Marbury to Steve Nash? Steph would just be fighting for shots with Amare, Marion and Q. There'd be no flow in that offense. Steve Nash distributes the ball ten times better then Marbury and shoots a high percentage with good shot selection.

Devastation

05-09-2005, 04:02 AM

Please guys, let's stop arguing.

Freddie Mitchell deserves the MVP, because he isn't around to open his mouth in the NBA.

Face Plant

05-09-2005, 10:36 AM

Here is the definitive question. If their was an imaginary expansion draft and Nash and Shaq were available, out of the two who would you take. Its a no brainer, you would take Shaq.

Mr. Ram

05-09-2005, 10:44 AM

Here is the definitive question. If their was an imaginary expansion draft and Nash and Shaq were available, out of the two who would you take. Its a no brainer, you would take Shaq.

If their was imaginary draft with Shaq and Lebron. Its a no brainer, you would take Lebron because of his youth and potential. So should Lebron be the MVP?

brohar

05-09-2005, 10:46 AM

Nash deserves it. Shaq wasnt even the MVP of his team because of this:

Wade’s 24.1 scoring average was more than a point higher than O’Neal’s 22.9, and Wade led the team in scoring 43 times to O’Neal’s 31.

It was Wade, not O’Neal, who broke the franchise’s single-season scoring record. Wade also scored 10 or more points in an overtime period three times, won two games with buzzer beaters, made at least one steal in 18 straight games, then in 15 straight. His season high was 48 points; O’Neal’s was 40.

Check out this stat: Wade just became only the seventh player in NBA history to average 25 points, eight assists, six rebounds and shoot at least 50 percent in a playoff series. The others were Oscar Robertson, Wilt Chamberlain, Bob Cousy, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan.

Face Plant

05-09-2005, 10:52 AM

If their was imaginary draft with Shaq and Lebron. Its a no brainer, you would take Lebron because of his youth and potential. So should Lebron be the MVP?

Yeah but I didn't give Lebron James as a choice I gave you Shaq and Nash, you included LeBron.

Mr. Ram

05-09-2005, 11:18 AM

It does not matter that, I used Lebron in your "definitive question" because your "definitive question" is flawed the MVP award is not based on who overall is the better player or who you would draft first because if that was the case Duncan would win the MVP instead of the unmotivated lazy Shaq.

Shaq is a great player but not even he had as big as impact to his team like Nash did with suns.

If Shaq was still in LA the heat would of had a 50 plus win team with the more experienced talent they had from last year. If Nash would of stayed in dallas the suns probably would of not even made the playoffs.

Face Plant

05-09-2005, 12:49 PM

Mr. Ram

05-09-2005, 01:47 PM

Your right the question is flawed. Let me reformat the question. Which position comes at a higher premium a dominant centre or guard?

The reason point guards don't win MVP very often is because they don't have the same impact a centre does. I don't care how many assists Nash gets, its not the same impact as a finisher. Nash is not MVP, its a poor choice.

So what are trying to say? That Shaq deserves the MVP because currently their no are descent centers in the league?

The only reason Shaq is so dominant is because other then him the NBA does not have one good center other then Yao Ming and Ben Wallice and that's saying something when we people consider them to be a good centers.

Nash faces great point guards on a regualr basis unlike Shaq who faces stiffs on a regualr basis.

2000 civic si

05-09-2005, 01:52 PM

All I have to say is, "Detroit, 2004 champs, and soon-to-be 2005 champs."

Come on DeV, You know the Heat will win it all in the East. If the Pistons beat the Heat I will be surprised.

Face Plant

05-09-2005, 02:05 PM

A pure assist machine should not win the MVP. Nash averaged 15.5 ppg, if I'm handing out the MVP hardware I want my MVP of the league to have a MINIMUM of 20 ppg.

I think Nash is great, but giving the assist leader with a marginal ppg avg the MVP is like giving the best closer the Cy Young. I know Gagne a closer won the Cy in 2003 but I still think that was wrong.

Besides if you want to make the criteria what individual is most valuable to his team you could make the argument for Iverson. But since the Sixers wern't going anywhere this year he didn't get a mention.

Mr. Ram

05-09-2005, 02:21 PM

Not only did Nash dish out alot of assists but he shot 50% from the field so those 15 points did not take alot of shot attempts from guys like Marion and Amare.

Anyway why should the NBA give the MVP to a guy like Shaq who lets Shawn Marion, Troy Murphy and a rookie like Emeka Okafor outrebound him.

If the NBA was going to give the MVP to Shaq he should atleast outrebound players who are much smaller then him and score atleast 25 points since their are no players that can guard him.

Here are Iverson's (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3094) numbers.

And here Nash's (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3103) it's pretty evident who put better numbers.

Whodi86

05-09-2005, 04:27 PM

We (I'm a Suns fan) had a average point guard last season and still had a losing record before we traded Marbury. And that's why we traded that bastard. So we could get the money to get some big free agents that would help us. And we realized we had a lacking at the point. Hence we got Nash.

OH god, not another WE fan. You have no part in THEIR team, THEY are a good team, you are not.

All and all it was a good decision. You have to look at the team, because some of you are talking purely on stats. It's obvious that Nash makes his team better than Shaq makes the Heat. (Dwayne Wayde)

Also, who took third in MVP voting this year??
Oh thats right Dirk Nowitzki. Fuck the Suns, Mavs in 6