Who would you start a franchise with?

Nerdcraft · 12-19-2004, 05:06 PM

Ok, I was talking to a couple kids about this, and I wanted to ask you guys, if you could choose one player in the NFL to start a new franchise, who would you pick? I would have to go with Mike Vick, the dude is an amazing athlete, and he can do good on a bad team. He's gonna run for 1000 and pass for 2500. My second, a close second, would be LT. One kid, I won't mention who, said Peyton Manning, and I thought that was the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Peyton is 28, which isn't old, but it's not 24, like Vick. Take away Peyton's recievers and O-line, and he is no good, he'd look like his brother. I would think Vick is the obvious choice, or LT. I would take Portis ahead of Manning too, I might even take Manning's brother if I could get together a good enough surrounding team.........Also, if there's a defensive guy you would pick too, name him. I would say either Peppers, Suggs, or Reed

TheDawgPound72 · 12-19-2004, 05:10 PM

I would definitely pick Peyton Manning. He's obviously the best player in the NFL right now, and no one throws the ball better than he does. Who touches the ball almost every play, unless theres some trickery involved? The quarterback does, making him the most important player on the field. Mike Vick is a great player, but not a great QB. He doesn't throw effectively and efficiently enough, and he fumbles way to much. Peytons 28, so what? All the great QBs played well into their late 30s, and Peytons a great QB. He's got a good 8-9 years. Mike Vick will get hurt again soon, and that will cost the Falcons dearly again.

Edit: For defense, I would pick either Julius Peppers or Dwight Freeney. Both are good, athletic defensive ends, and would be great for any franchise.

SliddY · 12-19-2004, 05:11 PM

My top 3 for each.

Offense - Vick, Moss, Tomlinson

Defense - Reed, Bailey, Lewis

Nerdcraft · 12-19-2004, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDawgPound72

I would definitely pick Peyton Manning. He's obviously the best player in the NFL right now, and no one throws the ball better than he does. Who touches the ball almost every play, unless theres some trickery involved? The quarterback does, making him the most important player on the field. Mike Vick is a great player, but not a great QB. He doesn't throw effectively and efficiently enough, and he fumbles way to much. Peytons 28, so what? All the great QBs played well into their late 30s, and Peytons a great QB. He's got a good 8-9 years. Mike Vick will get hurt again soon, and that will cost the Falcons dearly again.

Mike Vick can make your team good instantly. The Falcons were garbage without Vick last year. With Peyton, you have to go through years of building an offensive line, and you have to get recievers too. And lets not forget who makes Peyton so good, Edgerrin James. He is leading the league in rushing, and when you can play fake to him half the time, it's pretty easy to find 1 out of 3 recievers in the endzone.

12-19-2004, 05:19 PM

Almost no QB is good without a good O. Mike Vick can beat that problem, as long as his O-line isn't a bunch of test dummies. He doesn't need long to make an awesome play. Defensive units have so much trouble with the guy because he's a double-threat.
If I could pick a defensive guy, I'd go with Bailey.

TheDawgPound72 · 12-19-2004, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerdcraft

Mike Vick can make your team good instantly. The Falcons were garbage without Vick last year. With Peyton, you have to go through years of building an offensive line, and you have to get recievers too. And lets not forget who makes Peyton so good, Edgerrin James. He is leading the league in rushing, and when you can play fake to him half the time, it's pretty easy to find 1 out of 3 recievers in the endzone.

I think you've failed to see that 3 of the 5 starters on the O-Line for most of the season were rookies. And your blaming him for having good receivers. Would Joe Montana and Steve Young have been that good without Jerry Rice all those years? Was Stokely ever a great receiver before he came to Indianapolis? Its Peyton who makes the people around him better. Not one player on the Colts offense would be as good as they are without Peyton.

Nerdcraft · 12-19-2004, 05:29 PM

Were not arguing how much better Peyton is than Young or Montana or whatever, we're arguing who would be the better player for a franchise. And their three rookie O-linemen must be pretty damn good considering Peyton Manning never ever gets hit on a pass play. And I'm not blaming him for having good recievers, I'm saying, if he didn't have good ones, he wouldn't be any good, look at Vick, his only recieving option is Crumpler...Or Dunn out of the backfield, Price is have a bad, bad year, but Vick is still winning, with a better record than Manning,a nd Vick doesn't have the league leading rusher

SliddY · 12-19-2004, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDawgPound72

I think you've failed to see that 3 of the 5 starters on the O-Line for most of the season were rookies. And your blaming him for having good receivers. Would Joe Montana and Steve Young have been that good without Jerry Rice all those years? Was Stokely ever a great receiver before he came to Indianapolis? Its Peyton who makes the people around him better. Not one player on the Colts offense would be as good as they are without Peyton.

They work as a symbiotic relationship. They both make eachother better. Not one way or another.

Dual · 12-19-2004, 05:33 PM

QBs- Vick, P. Manning, McNabb

12-19-2004, 05:46 PM

William Green :sleeping:

Seriously though, I don't think it is Vick or Peyton. Both are good choices, but I don't think they fit the title as "Franchise Player". Vick can't throw, and if you get any pressure on Peyton at all, he can't do anything. I think I'm gonna agree with Nerdcraft's second choice in LT. He can run, catch, and make defenders look like fools. He is arguably the hardest guy in the NFL to contain.

bob991 · 12-19-2004, 06:06 PM

Michael Vick. Not even close. I would pick him because being the only real good player on that team and they are one of the top 5 or 6 teams in the league. You cold not be anymore wrong about Peyton Manning. He does have a good line, but he is still probably one of top 10 qbs of all time. I was watching him play, he throws the ball almost perfectly 99% of the time, any reciever could catch those passes. And Portis, you do not want Portis. I have watched probably every snap the Redskins have played this season and he's nothing special. The only thing that made him good was the Broncos zone-blocking scheme. You may argue that he is one of the leading rushers in the league, but that is because he gets the ball much more than most of the other star running backs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerdcraft

And lets not forget who makes Peyton so good, Edgerrin James. He is leading the league in rushing, and when you can play fake to him half the time, it's pretty easy to find 1 out of 3 recievers in the endzone.

No. That may have been true in the last couple of years, but not this year. He is the leading rusher because on defense teams always drop deep into coverage to stop Wayne, Harrison, or Stokely from catching the ball, he should probably be averaging close to 7.5 yards per carry, as opposed to a [still outstanding] 4.8. Had Manning peaked like this 3 years ago and they still had Faulk, Faulk would have probably averaged around 10 yards a carry.

Nerdcraft · 12-19-2004, 07:20 PM

I agree Peppers on defense, but no one is showing any love for Terrel Suggs. Dude can play linebacker or D-line, and I think he's leading the Ravens in sacks

12-19-2004, 07:35 PM

haha you people know nothing about football if you dont choose peyton manning as your franchise player. And you definitely know nothing if you choose Vick. Vick is not the reason the falcons are winning. The falcons defense is the reason the falcons are winning. Vicks stats are horrible, he is THE MOST OVERRATED PROFESSIONAL ATHLETE.

Manning...amazing, he is unstoppable, he could have highschool receivers and still throw 3 td's in a game. Breaking the td record this week with 2 games left....could possibly be the 2nd best QB of all time by the end of his career.

#1 = favre

poopchow · 12-19-2004, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheTechnician

haha you people know nothing about football if you dont choose peyton manning as your franchise player. And you definitely know nothing if you choose Vick. Vick is not the reason the falcons are winning. The falcons defense is the reason the falcons are winning. Vicks stats are horrible, he is THE MOST OVERRATED PROFESSIONAL ATHLETE.

Manning...amazing, he is unstoppable, he could have highschool receivers and still throw 3 td's in a game. Breaking the td record this week with 2 games left....could possibly be the 2nd best QB of all time by the end of his career.

#1 = favre

Yea and Vick didnt score 30+ pts last night....

Now, the question is start franchise right now....

No particular order...

Vick, Peyton, Brady

Vick is very very very inconistant, but its a franchise so i could build him and within 2 more years he could have 3000 yards and 1000 yards with 25 totals TD and 800+ rushing.

The thing with vick is even when he is off, which has been at least 5 times this year, the Falcons have won 11 times. Part of it is Dunn and Duckett, but hell Vick knows when to make a big play.

Peyton- the perfect pocket passer. Remember this is a franchise, you can pick what recievers but with manning it doesnt even matter. Over 100+ straight starts too.

Brady- clutch, this generation's brett favre. If he continues his ways right now, he could surpass him.

RBs...

LT
Priest
Alexander
Westbrook

All can run and catch.

All in that order.

12-19-2004, 08:26 PM

I think Peyton Manning is overrated. Not extremely overrated, but he is still overrated. I know he has all those TD passes, but hey, look at where he plays. All his games are in a controlled climate, something Dan Marino never had. We saw he can't play in bad weather in last year's AFC Championship game. Three picks in wind and snow. In outdoor games, his completion percentage is 10 less than indoors and his QB rating is 25 less. And that is with less passing attempts. Granted, his numbers are still pretty good outdoors, we'll see a huge difference in his play in January at Pittsburgh/New England.

12-19-2004, 05:10 PM	#2
TheDawgPound72 Go Browns Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,340	I would definitely pick Peyton Manning. He's obviously the best player in the NFL right now, and no one throws the ball better than he does. Who touches the ball almost every play, unless theres some trickery involved? The quarterback does, making him the most important player on the field. Mike Vick is a great player, but not a great QB. He doesn't throw effectively and efficiently enough, and he fumbles way to much. Peytons 28, so what? All the great QBs played well into their late 30s, and Peytons a great QB. He's got a good 8-9 years. Mike Vick will get hurt again soon, and that will cost the Falcons dearly again. Edit: For defense, I would pick either Julius Peppers or Dwight Freeney. Both are good, athletic defensive ends, and would be great for any franchise. Last edited by TheDawgPound72; 12-19-2004 at 05:13 PM..

12-19-2004, 05:06 PM	#1
Nerdcraft Sports Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Cleveland Posts: 999	Who would you start a franchise with? Ok, I was talking to a couple kids about this, and I wanted to ask you guys, if you could choose one player in the NFL to start a new franchise, who would you pick? I would have to go with Mike Vick, the dude is an amazing athlete, and he can do good on a bad team. He's gonna run for 1000 and pass for 2500. My second, a close second, would be LT. One kid, I won't mention who, said Peyton Manning, and I thought that was the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Peyton is 28, which isn't old, but it's not 24, like Vick. Take away Peyton's recievers and O-line, and he is no good, he'd look like his brother. I would think Vick is the obvious choice, or LT. I would take Portis ahead of Manning too, I might even take Manning's brother if I could get together a good enough surrounding team.........Also, if there's a defensive guy you would pick too, name him. I would say either Peppers, Suggs, or Reed

12-19-2004, 05:11 PM	#3
SliddY rawr Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,077	My top 3 for each. Offense - Vick, Moss, Tomlinson Defense - Reed, Bailey, Lewis

12-19-2004, 05:19 PM	#5
Senor_Queso Guest Posts: n/a	Almost no QB is good without a good O. Mike Vick can beat that problem, as long as his O-line isn't a bunch of test dummies. He doesn't need long to make an awesome play. Defensive units have so much trouble with the guy because he's a double-threat. If I could pick a defensive guy, I'd go with Bailey.

12-19-2004, 05:29 PM	#7
Nerdcraft Sports Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Cleveland Posts: 999	Were not arguing how much better Peyton is than Young or Montana or whatever, we're arguing who would be the better player for a franchise. And their three rookie O-linemen must be pretty damn good considering Peyton Manning never ever gets hit on a pass play. And I'm not blaming him for having good recievers, I'm saying, if he didn't have good ones, he wouldn't be any good, look at Vick, his only recieving option is Crumpler...Or Dunn out of the backfield, Price is have a bad, bad year, but Vick is still winning, with a better record than Manning,a nd Vick doesn't have the league leading rusher

12-19-2004, 05:46 PM	#10
Pfef63 Guest Posts: n/a	William Green :sleeping: Seriously though, I don't think it is Vick or Peyton. Both are good choices, but I don't think they fit the title as "Franchise Player". Vick can't throw, and if you get any pressure on Peyton at all, he can't do anything. I think I'm gonna agree with Nerdcraft's second choice in LT. He can run, catch, and make defenders look like fools. He is arguably the hardest guy in the NFL to contain.

12-19-2004, 07:20 PM	#12
Nerdcraft Sports Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Cleveland Posts: 999	I agree Peppers on defense, but no one is showing any love for Terrel Suggs. Dude can play linebacker or D-line, and I think he's leading the Ravens in sacks

12-19-2004, 07:35 PM	#13
TheTechnician Guest Posts: n/a	haha you people know nothing about football if you dont choose peyton manning as your franchise player. And you definitely know nothing if you choose Vick. Vick is not the reason the falcons are winning. The falcons defense is the reason the falcons are winning. Vicks stats are horrible, he is THE MOST OVERRATED PROFESSIONAL ATHLETE. Manning...amazing, he is unstoppable, he could have highschool receivers and still throw 3 td's in a game. Breaking the td record this week with 2 games left....could possibly be the 2nd best QB of all time by the end of his career. #1 = favre

12-19-2004, 08:26 PM	#15
Pfef63 Guest Posts: n/a	I think Peyton Manning is overrated. Not extremely overrated, but he is still overrated. I know he has all those TD passes, but hey, look at where he plays. All his games are in a controlled climate, something Dan Marino never had. We saw he can't play in bad weather in last year's AFC Championship game. Three picks in wind and snow. In outdoor games, his completion percentage is 10 less than indoors and his QB rating is 25 less. And that is with less passing attempts. Granted, his numbers are still pretty good outdoors, we'll see a huge difference in his play in January at Pittsburgh/New England.