covfefe wrote: ↑
Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:10 am
Suppose that Trump sits down for an interview with CNN or MSNBC. All that does is make those outlets look legitimate. It doesn’t achieve anything beyond that. It isn’t like CNN or whatever is going to put together a good interview or act in good faith – if they were going to then why wouldn’t they do that already in their reporting? And it isn’t like Trump is going to ‘win’ the interview by showing CNN viewers how poor their interviewers are (the people watching the interview don’t care). So having the interview at all is a win for CNN and a loss for Trump.
We can say the same thing about the NK summit. All it did was make NK look legitimate on the world stage, and it makes Kim look like a legitimate leader to his people (rather than a kleptocrat). But it’s a loss for Trump. Trump can’t win the summit because NK isn’t going to act in good faith – if they were going to then why wouldn’t they do that already? And it isn’t like Trump is going to win the summit by showing that NK is an illegitimate state and a kleptocracy. So the summit is a win for NK and a loss for Trump. Now NK can use propaganda videos with Kim and Trump to squash any dissent in NK – “look I’m not a petty tyrant, I’m a legitimate world leader who has shaken hands with the leader of the free world”.
Now, Styx says that he can’t find anything about the NK summit that he disagrees with. He says that Clinton, Bush, and Obama all failed, and that Trump succeeded. Styx says this because he genuinely thinks that we now have at least the vague notion of denuclearization.
But this is really ignorant of him. It show that he doesn't know the history between NK and the US. While it is true that we have the vague notion of denuclearization, this is the exact same thing
that the three previous administrations got out of NK too.
Remember that Clinton ‘succeeded’ in getting the Agreed Framework in 1994. In this agreement NK said they would stop building nuclear reactors
. That’s a ‘vague notion’ of denuclearization too - but that didn’t work out. Instead, things got worse.
So then Bush rightly abandoned the Agreed Framework in 2002. He instead used joint-diplomatic negotiations (with NK, SK, China, Japan, and Russia). That led to NK agreeing to abandon their nuclear weapons and nuclear programs. Those were their exact words: abandon the weapons and the program
. So that too counts as a ‘vague notion’ of denuclearization. But of course that didn’t work either. And things got worse still.
Finally, Obama abandoned the joint-diplomatic negotiations. He instead used sanctions. This lead to the Leap Day Agreement in 2012. And in that agreement NK said they would stop using their nuclear reactors
. Again, that’s a ‘vague notion’ of denuclearization’. But that didn’t work out either. And so here we are today.
So Styx is 100% dead wrong that Trump has succeeded where previous administrators have failed. Rather, Trump has gotten the exact same vague promise out of NK as did Clinton, Bush, and Obama. Except Trump achieved it by accidentally legitimating NK on the world stage.
I call that a loss.