• eBaumer's Questionnaire

  • If it doesn't fit in another forum, chances are it belongs here.
If it doesn't fit in another forum, chances are it belongs here.
 #15548  by Demeter
 Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:55 am
Yeah except there's as much chance of the fetuses at that stage feeling pain as there is a plant. (Basically, none, no chance.)


So it's not in any way comparable. At all.


Also, if you're neither for or against abortion, then you either admit to believing the fetuses feel no pain, in which case there's no hypocrisy involved in me being pro-choice whatsoever. Or, you admit that you believe there's a chance they feel pain/you think they do feel pain, and that you're a sociopath. In which case, you're a hypocrite for trying to criticize me. But, you already are, because you fund animal torture every day like it's your favorite charity, and I didn't need to know what you thought about the fetuses ability to feel pain to know that.

So basically what this all really comes down to is absolutely no hypocrisy on my part, on the contrary, it's just a confused defense mechanism of yours to project imagined flaws onto someone who has pointed out real flaws in your daily habits.

Image
 #15570  by Concerno
 Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:09 am
I don't care for children, but I think they can drive you over the edge into yelling. Children are little bastards after all. A professor of mine used to call them pocket sized psychopaths. Which isn't far from the truth.
Anthrax666 liked this
 #15572  by PlusCaChange
 Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:27 am
Yeah except there's as much chance of the fetuses at that stage feeling pain as there is a plant.
And pleasure/pain is the measure of value? A thing has worth, is deserving of consideration only to the extent it can register a sensation in it's nervous system? If we made a robot with a circuit which passed the Turing test for feeling pain (it would be easy to do) that collection of wires and servos would suddenly have moral worth? Actually you wouldn't even need electricity, you could simulate a pain response perfectly with clockwork.
Concerno, Anthrax666 liked this
 #15573  by Demeter
 Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:32 am
Concerno wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:09 am
I don't care for children, but I think they can drive you over the edge into yelling. Children are little bastards after all. A professor of mine used to call them pocket sized psychopaths. Which isn't far from the truth.
I think it really depends on how you raise them. Kids are very impressionable. If you treat them like they're little bastards, they're probably going to be little bastards.

I've noticed this working in child care. The children who weren't spanked, and have conscious parents who avoid yelling - they're little dolls for the most part.

But WOW the difference between children who have been raised being spanked and yelled at. Whatd'yaknow, they like to yell! Wonder where on Earth they got that from? Oh shit, turns out they like to grab your wrist as hard as they can when they don't want to get in the car and you're forced to pick them up because a lady is trying to pull out in the next spot and she's already been waiting 2 minutes. Woooonder where they got that from! Totally couldn't be from their parent who does the exact same thing to them when they're frustrated!

Of course kids are kids and they will struggle with emotions at times, that's inevitable, and outburts are okay to a certain extent. But when there's a regular behavioral issue like that, it's either because of the parent, or in rare cases some physiological/psychological issue.
 #15575  by Concerno
 Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:35 am
I wasn't really interested in developmental psychology back in school, but young children have not yet developed any morals yet and don't follow an ethical code. That's why he called them that.
 #15578  by Demeter
 Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:45 am
Concerno wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:35 am
I wasn't really interested in developmental psychology back in school, but young children have not yet developed any morals yet and don't follow an ethical code. That's why he called them that.
I think that some have an innate empathy, but otherwise, they are what you make them.
 #15580  by PlusCaChange
 Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:48 am
I've noticed this working in child care. The children who weren't spanked, and have conscious parents who avoid yelling - they're little dolls for the most part.
More likely that's genetics. Parents who are are placid tend to have have children who are placid. The only way to test would be to look at children who were adopted.
young children have not yet developed any morals yet
That's not true at all. They have all the moral impulses, what they lack are inhibitions. Their morals have not been schooled into a system and they have poor impulse control.
 #15582  by Demeter
 Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:59 am
PlusCaChange wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:48 am
I've noticed this working in child care. The children who weren't spanked, and have conscious parents who avoid yelling - they're little dolls for the most part.
More likely that's genetics. Parents who are are placid tend to have have children who are placid. The only way to test would be to look at children who were adopted.
I think it's just (what should be) common sense. If you treat kids with respect, they're more likely to respect you. In fact it's pretty much a guarantee unless they're dealing with something else and you just happen to be there and they're not in the mood.

Also, some of the kids I cared for, the mom was VERY easily stressed, but she tried really hard to be a good mom, so she didn't yell or spank. And what do you know, her kid never yelled or was violent unless he was a little too excited rough playing, like with his infant sister he struggled to play nicely with sometimes, maybe not really understanding how fragile she was, or maybe the opposite, being frustrated with how fragile she was and wanting so much to be able to play with her. Seems like that issues been resolved now that they're both older though.
young children have not yet developed any morals yet
That's not true at all. They have all the moral impulses, what they lack are inhibitions. Their morals have not been schooled into a system and they have poor impulse control.
Actually am gonna say I agree with you this time.
 #15586  by PlusCaChange
 Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:16 am
I think it's just (what should be) common sense.
Common sense is wrong at least as often as it's right. That's why scientific thinking has advanced understanding more in the last 300 years than in the 30,000 that came before. You have to test a theory against reality before you can place any reliance on it. In this case first see if there is a real difference in aggressive/violent behavior between children from homes with less aggressive/violent parents or if it's just confirmation bias. Then eliminate other possible explanations like genetic predisposition. Studies of twins reared separately have shown the genetic component of behavior to be enormous, though the interaction between genetics and environment is more complex than a simple either/or.