• What do you think of the GOP tax plan?

  • Discuss current events / serious things here. Needless flaming / idiocy are grounds for banning.
Discuss current events / serious things here. Needless flaming / idiocy are grounds for banning.
 #87167  by kocher
 Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:07 pm
JohnnyP wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:33 am
kocher wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:53 am
It takes a gross negligence to history and basic logic to think this will benefit the average citizen. In '04 Congress invited corporations to bring their overseas earnings at a reduced rate in an attempt to yield invesments, but used 90% of their windfall buying back their shares.
That's a complete lie. They used the money to pay dividends in their US based companies.
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2008/06/24/b ... 33715.html?
"In all, 843 corporations took advantage of the offer, according to recent IRS statistics of income data, bringing back $362 billion in foreign profits, paid to the parent corporations as dividends."

"The tax break was included in a larger piece of legislation called the American Jobs Creation Act of 2004, with the intention that the repatriated money would prompt investment in the United States economy and spur job growth. Companies had to promise to use the money to invest in their domestic operations. They could not use it to pay dividends, or compensate executives."

"Supporters of the tax break say it was a success because it brought about $18 billion into Treasury coffers that otherwise would have stayed overseas. The nonpartisan Joint Committee on Taxation, a congressional agency, had estimated that the tax break would bring in only $2.8 billion, a sixth the actual amount.

"The provision was generally successful in prompting the repatriation of vast sums of foreign profits," wrote Joseph Calianno, a tax partner at Grant Thornton, in a recent analysis of the data."
Meanwhile, in that same article...
Willens said while companies did make investments in their domestic operations, the repatriated money also freed up a corresponding amount of cash to pay out to shareholders or buy back stock — moves that do not generate job growth or investments. "We know that a lot of stock was retired during this time," he said.

A 2007 academic study by Roy Clemons, then a graduate student at Texas A&M University, that was based on earlier data, found that the tax break did not stimulate investment in the United States economy and that repatriated money was often used for disallowed purposes, like stock repurchases.
How does the source you're citing backing what I said nearly verbatim, and then some, constitute as a "complete lie"? There's no evidence to corroborate that companies used repatriated money as expected, due to the guidelines loose limitations. Share buybacks inflate their own prices and produce nothing of tangible value, company profit margins are exponentially increasing while job growth and wages remain relatively stagnant.
 #87171  by Hakik
 Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:22 pm
JohnnyP wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:36 am
Losers complain about procedure. Now, that it's passed new projections have the GDP going to 4%. If that happens the 1 trillion dollar deficit turns into a 3 trillion surplus. Then add to that the 2-4 trillion in overseas holdings coming back into the US.
Think of all the money you can spend with that. We all know you leftists have never seen a new government program you didn't like.
In what kind of magic fairy land do you live that 1 trillion dollar deficit is gonna turn into a 3 trillion surplus. First of all the claim about a 3% boost seems a bit too optimistic. But nowhere near as wild as Trump's promise that it would add $10 trillion to the economy. How naive does he think we are?

The fact is, the economic growth predicted still wouldn't pay for the cost of the tax plan. That's just simple math. You're talking only hundreds of billions to cover trillions in cost. There are still people in America who can add right?

Also, that's in ideal conditions. That's if the stock market doesn't crash any time in the next 10 years. So you can already pretty much scratch out that entire theory.

Also that 2-4 trillion money coming back to the US, is coming back in the pockets of large corporations, mostly Apple's stockpile of cash, and to pay back corporate debts, pay for useless corporate expenses as always, and leave a few breadcrumbs for shareholders. You think large corporations are gonna go "hey America, thanks for everything you did, this one's on us" and you're gonna get that money in your pocket? Or maybe you think Tim Cook is gonna give you a free iPhone :lol:
 #87195  by JohnnyP
 Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:19 pm
Hakik wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:22 pm
JohnnyP wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:36 am
Losers complain about procedure. Now, that it's passed new projections have the GDP going to 4%. If that happens the 1 trillion dollar deficit turns into a 3 trillion surplus. Then add to that the 2-4 trillion in overseas holdings coming back into the US.
Think of all the money you can spend with that. We all know you leftists have never seen a new government program you didn't like.
In what kind of magic fairy land do you live that 1 trillion dollar deficit is gonna turn into a 3 trillion surplus. First of all the claim about a 3% boost seems a bit too optimistic. But nowhere near as wild as Trump's promise that it would add $10 trillion to the economy. How naive does he think we are?

The fact is, the economic growth predicted still wouldn't pay for the cost of the tax plan. That's just simple math. You're talking only hundreds of billions to cover trillions in cost. There are still people in America who can add right?

Also, that's in ideal conditions. That's if the stock market doesn't crash any time in the next 10 years. So you can already pretty much scratch out that entire theory.

Also that 2-4 trillion money coming back to the US, is coming back in the pockets of large corporations, mostly Apple's stockpile of cash, and to pay back corporate debts, pay for useless corporate expenses as always, and leave a few breadcrumbs for shareholders. You think large corporations are gonna go "hey America, thanks for everything you did, this one's on us" and you're gonna get that money in your pocket? Or maybe you think Tim Cook is gonna give you a free iPhone :lol:
www.cnbc.com/amp/2017/09/26/tax-reform- ... -jump.html
The current GDP is at 3.1% right now. A 1% increase would put it at 4% Paying corporate debt, and dividends helps the shareholders. Also, any investment in increases in production won't be outside the US because the country will be competitive with other nations due to a lower corporate rate. Where did you learn economics the Louie Rocko School of Typewriter Maintenance?

"The United States will see its gross domestic product rise by 1 percent if the government can get tax reform "right," according to the commerce secretary.
Getting U.S. tax reform right is important, because it could add nearly $3 trillion in federal government revenue in the next decade, Wilbur Ross said on Wednesday.
Beyond the federal budget and the lifting of the debt ceiling, the tax program is the "single-most important thing," Ross told CNBC's "Squawk Box."

"Effective tax reform will "increase the gross domestic product growth by 1 percentage point, so 100 basis points," he said, adding that in 10 years, that would amount to "$10 trillion more GDP, $3 trillion more revenues to the federal government."
BDR529 liked this
 #87201  by BDR529
 Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:31 pm
Hey, if you libtards decide to put your pussy hats on and go outside to scream at the sky...please record it and post. That way we all can enjoy it. :lol:
JohnnyP liked this
 #87204  by JohnnyP
 Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:40 pm
BDR529 wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:31 pm
Hey, if you libtards decide to put your pussy hats on and go outside to scream at the sky...please record it and post. That way we all can enjoy it. :lol:
Many weren't born yet when Reagan did something similar with the economy and saw how successful it was. Reagan got the idea from JFK.
 #87207  by BDR529
 Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:53 pm
JohnnyP wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:40 pm
BDR529 wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:31 pm
Hey, if you libtards decide to put your pussy hats on and go outside to scream at the sky...please record it and post. That way we all can enjoy it. :lol:
Many weren't born yet when Reagan did something similar with the economy and saw how successful it was. Reagan got the idea from JFK.
They're just parroting the crap from the MSM...and Shumer/Pelosi/Sanders. I find it ironic that all the dems are worried about it adding a trillion dollards over 10 years (which it won't). Where were all these fiscal hawks when Obongo was running up a healthy $9 trillion addition to the deficit? Hell, he blew more than a trillion on his phony "shovel ready job" stimulus and Soylyndra.

I find it particularly humorous listening to Bernie whine about adding to the deficit...the very guy that was supposed to provide free healthcare and college for everyone without a clue of how to pay for it. Fucking dems man.
JohnnyP liked this