• Hate Speech and The Forums

  • If it doesn't fit in another forum, chances are it belongs here.
If it doesn't fit in another forum, chances are it belongs here.
 #170525  by PepperPeanut
 Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:46 pm
Hey guys, I want to address this because I'm seeing it a lot here.

Last night I gave AlmostApathetic a week ban for using the n-word after I warned him not to.

It's really simple. If you're using hate speech you're going to catch a ban. If you keep doing it you're going to catch a permaban. I know the forums are dead because of months and months of endless spam, but that doesn't excuse breaking that fundamental rule. And if this place is just a cesspool of toxic racist bullshit, I see no reason to even keep it open.

So knock it the fuck off, or fuck off. It's that simple.
 #170526  by lemmiwinx
 Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:03 pm
In defense of AA it used to be that long time members here could use the N-word at will. We were sort of grandfathered in now we have all these new rules.
 #170527  by Tim_Kerr
 Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:15 pm
That's the word of my people 8-)

 #170528  by lemmiwinx
 Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:26 pm
Tim_Kerr wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:15 pm
That's the word of my people 8-)

That's close to using the N-word but not quite so I wouldn't know know what to say if Pepper gave you a week's ban. If you have some black DNA in ya you could get off with a three day ban if you dispute it.
 #170529  by PepperPeanut
 Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:41 pm
lemmiwinx wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:03 pm
In defense of AA it used to be that long time members here could use the N-word at will. We were sort of grandfathered in now we have all these new rules.
Thanks for the clarification, Drop.
 #170530  by lemmiwinx
 Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:49 pm
PepperPeanut wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:41 pm
lemmiwinx wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:03 pm
In defense of AA it used to be that long time members here could use the N-word at will. We were sort of grandfathered in now we have all these new rules.
Thanks for the clarification, Drop.
You should let AA out of jail early in any case. He means well but his parents were first cousins so there's that.
 #170537  by Hakik
 Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:29 am
Hate speech is actually not illegal nor regulated in the United States. In fact the supreme court has defended hate speech as free speech, and it's protected by our constitution.

"[The idea that the government may restrict] speech expressing ideas that offend … strikes at the heart of the First Amendment. Speech that demeans on the basis of race, ethnicity, gender, religion, age, disability, or any other similar ground is hateful; but the proudest boast of our free speech jurisprudence is that we protect the freedom to express “the thought that we hate.”
-Justice Samuel Alito

Hate speech is also a very vague, subjective, and ill-defined concept. Calling someone a "boomer" can now be considered hate speech on the basis of age. "Retarded" is considered by some as hate speech. And even talking about cooking steak, stuffing a Turkey, or anything involving a dead animal, can be considered extremely offensive and hate speech by some vegans. While for others, merely using a bad word is not enough for hate speech, there needs to be context for it to be hate speech. While others believe that there needs to also be intent behind it. It's too broad, and can too easily become a slippery slope.

If you want to just ban words like the n-word and its dozen of alternatives, and words like ******, gook, etc, then just specify what words are restricted.

But to just broadly say hate speech, something that is very subjective and doesn't mean a whole lot and most people can't even agree on a specific definition, is just not something moderatable and not a rule you can realistically expect people to be able to understand.
 #170539  by lemmiwinx
 Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:52 am
+ to the post above - what happened to the like button?

If you can't deal with speech you don't like then you hate free speech. Prove me wrong. Attica! Attica!
Image
 #170545  by PepperPeanut
 Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:35 pm
Hakik wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:29 am
Hate speech is actually not illegal nor regulated in the United States. In fact the supreme court has defended hate speech as free speech, and it's protected by our constitution.

"[The idea that the government may restrict] speech expressing ideas that offend … strikes at the heart of the First Amendment. Speech that demeans on the basis of race, ethnicity, gender, religion, age, disability, or any other similar ground is hateful; but the proudest boast of our free speech jurisprudence is that we protect the freedom to express “the thought that we hate.”
-Justice Samuel Alito

Hate speech is also a very vague, subjective, and ill-defined concept. Calling someone a "boomer" can now be considered hate speech on the basis of age. "Retarded" is considered by some as hate speech. And even talking about cooking steak, stuffing a Turkey, or anything involving a dead animal, can be considered extremely offensive and hate speech by some vegans. While for others, merely using a bad word is not enough for hate speech, there needs to be context for it to be hate speech. While others believe that there needs to also be intent behind it. It's too broad, and can too easily become a slippery slope.

If you want to just ban words like the n-word and its dozen of alternatives, and words like ******, gook, etc, then just specify what words are restricted.

But to just broadly say hate speech, something that is very subjective and doesn't mean a whole lot and most people can't even agree on a specific definition, is just not something moderatable and not a rule you can realistically expect people to be able to understand.
First of all, LOL at bringing an Alito quote into a thread about hate speech on a forum. Great work, Hakik.

Second of all, I agree that it's vague. It's not just a list of words, and you know that. It's intention, it's purpose and it's context. I'm not going to create a list that would include the word monkey for instance, but if the word monkey was used in the context of attacking someone's race then it's hate speech. See how that works? If you define a list of words, there are always ways around it and people can claim innocence because "it's not on the list".

Also, give me a fucking break that people don't know what is and what isn't hate speech. If you're attacking someone based on their race, religion, ethnicity, or sexual preference you're using hate speech.

If you want completely unfettered "free speech" there are very few places that you will find that, and you're welcome to go there. But these are the same rules that apply to nearly every single website in the world.

I'd be happy to have a first infraction gets a warning system (which is what happened to AA), but if you feel that it's unmoderateable because of a lack of a one-size-fits-all definition or because it requires a subjective reading of context, I'm happy to unburden you of your responsibility to navigate the real world in terms of moderation.